Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Zombimode

2012-06-14, 12:10 PM

I'm a bit afraid about improving the Infinity Engine, because it's perfect already.

I would almost agree with you on this point. The Infinity Engine is really good, especially for a party-based games with a strong real time* combat focus like the two main series on the engine.
But there are points to improve. Recently I thought about how awesome an Ultima 7 remake on the Infinity Engine could be. But on a second thought, one of the strongest points of the Ultima 7 engine was the interactiveness of the environment and this made up a major part of the gameplay and the enjoyment.
The environment in the Infinity Engine is almost non-interactive, and its really hard to implement anything more than the most basic features (like doors). No scratch that, even implementing the basics is a real headache, but more on that later. Something like Ultima 7 is outright impossible on the Infinity Engine.
Now, the original Infinity Engine games did not need an interactive environment because those games were build around the strengths of the engine and not its weaknesses.

The second area for improvement is related to the first: map building.
In short: its a chore. Even the most basic features like the difference between walkable and blocked parts of the map have to be painstakingly added by hand.

A third point would be to make the engine more open ended. By that I mean ways to break the boundaries imposed by the original games. For example: the only reason the party size has a hard limit of 6 is that only as much protraits could be displayed on the native resolutions. But since BGE will support higher resolutions this is no longer the case.
Or making changes to the ruleset. I'm not saying this because I think the AD&D rule set sucks (its fine the way it is). But it would be immensely helpful to change the rules when creating a non-D&D based mod.

Yes, all those points have almost no relevance to the Baldur's Gate games. But for modding, these points are vital. The Infinity Engine already is highly moddable, but there is a reason why you don't see many Total Conversions.
But since higher mod support was one of the goals for BGE, one can hope :smallsmile:

*I know the game is internally structured in turns, but AD&D's timestamp approach made it almost real-time like, and on the PC is all more fluent so there is no reason not to call it real-time combat.

Mx.Silver

2012-06-14, 12:58 PM

I really, desperately want it to be great. I am frustrated, however, that I don't see any news on the page or any information, really. It's just a handful of headlines. I don't even know when it's coming out, much less seen screens of the improved graphics.

This is pretty much how I feel about it as well. There's been remarkably little information on it, particularly in regards to the changes to characters and dialogue other than there probably will be some.

bluntpencil

2012-06-15, 07:57 AM

Interestingly, there have been hints at a BG3 maybe getting made in the future now.

Oh. My. God (of Murder).

Winthur

2012-06-15, 08:16 AM

Interestingly, there have been hints at a BG3 maybe getting made in the future now.

Oh. My. God (of Murder).

BG2 ToB finished the storyline. I'm not ecstatic about BG3 because it sounds like it would be either completely unrelated to the previous games or would find some way to continue the BG storyline which is resolved.

Unless you make BG3 a remake of BG2, with the protagonist losing his hand, transplanting a hand of Vecna onto the stub with a Carsomyr* strapped onto it, and then after the ToB storyline is resolved he gets transported into Fallout world for Baldur's Gate 4 and needs to find the Guardian of Forever to get back. But before he does so he has to help fight off a supermutant invasion led by his bad clone.

*Carsomyr is overrated actually, but eh...

bluntpencil

2012-06-15, 08:27 AM

BG2 ToB finished the storyline. I'm not ecstatic about BG3 because it sounds like it would be either completely unrelated to the previous games or would find some way to continue the BG storyline which is resolved.

Unless you make BG3 a remake of BG2, with the protagonist losing his hand, transplanting a hand of Vecna onto the stub with a Carsomyr* strapped onto it, and then after the ToB storyline is resolved he gets transported into Fallout world for Baldur's Gate 4 and needs to find the Guardian of Forever to get back. But before he does so he has to help fight off a supermutant invasion led by his bad clone.

*Carsomyr is overrated actually, but eh...

I think they could re-do ToB into BG3 instead. It was somewhat lacking compared to the main campaign in BG2.

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 08:29 AM

*Carsomyr is overrated actually, but eh...

On hit dispel. Magic Resistance. Nuff said.

bluntpencil

2012-06-15, 08:35 AM

On hit dispel. Magic Resistance. Nuff said.

And can be upgraded by Cespenar too!

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 08:39 AM

And can be upgraded by Cespenar too!

Aye aye. :smallbiggrin:

Winthur

2012-06-15, 08:54 AM

On hit dispel. Magic Resistance. Nuff said.

The on hit dispel is bugged in some versions of the game including mine and the rest of the buffs aren't so great. Also, Cespenar's upgrade in ToB pretty much only makes the weapon +6, which isn't that huge of a deal.

My weapon of choice on a Paladin is an upgraded Purifier. From +4 to +5 is actually more significant than +5 to +6, plus it can be dual-wielded with another weapon such as Foebane, which is pretty awesome.

I mean, Carsomyr is powerful, just not godlike tier.

blueblade

2012-06-15, 09:09 AM

Carsomyr's main flaw is that Keldorn and the inquisitor kits exist. Since he can dispel far more effectively than the sword does, it's (albeit powerful) main feature is effectively nullified..

Give me a full upgraded flail of the ages anyday..

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 09:17 AM

The on hit dispel is bugged in some versions of the game including mine and the rest of the buffs aren't so great. Also, Cespenar's upgrade in ToB pretty much only makes the weapon +6, which isn't that huge of a deal.

My weapon of choice on a Paladin is an upgraded Purifier. From +4 to +5 is actually more significant than +5 to +6, plus it can be dual-wielded with another weapon such as Foebane, which is pretty awesome.

I mean, Carsomyr is powerful, just not godlike tier.

50% Magic Resistance is a great buff in my book, but YMMV. And dual wielding isn't as useful, as it only grants one extra attack. Main use of dual wielding is with stuff like Crom Faeyr, to stack up buffs, in my opinion.

Carsomyr's main flaw is that Keldorn and the inquisitor kits exist. Since he can dispel far more effectively than the sword does, it's (albeit powerful) main feature is effectively nullified..

Give me a full upgraded flail of the ages anyday..

Now that is a better argument. Though on-hit dispel is a good thing, a level 40+ dispel by an Inquisitor is much, much better. Almost a game-breaker, even. And of course, I'd take the Flail +6 as well, but that's really an extreme example.

Plus, the Flail belongs to Anomen in most of my games.

mangosta71

2012-06-15, 09:23 AM

If you're up against a dragon, Carsomyr is your best friend. Any other time, it's still extremely good. It's usually the best weapon in my arsenal when I find it, and I keep it in one of Keldorn's quick weapon slots throughout the rest of the game for those situations that call for it.

Anyway, I've heard very little about this project, but it's exciting news.

Winthur

2012-06-15, 09:28 AM

50% Magic Resistance is a great buff in my book, but YMMV. And dual wielding isn't as useful, as it only grants one extra attack. Main use of dual wielding is with stuff like Crom Faeyr, to stack up buffs, in my opinion.

Well, dual wielding is probably the best way to stack up damage. Having a dedicated dual wielding Paladin allows you some sweet combos. Purifier gives 30% magic resistance, so it's viable as an off-hand weapon as well, plus it has bonus attack against Chaotic Evils. Foebane in main hand has SO many +dmg modifiers it's worth it (Larloch's Minor Drain, when it stacks up, is not ignorable), it also gives you saving throws and it makes clearing Watcher's Keep (and the Demogorgon fight) a breeze with its bonuses. Oh, and it also has Dispel Magic castable from it.

Carsomyr however is still a strong item especially since Firkraag comes earlier than the ToB weapons, I just don't think it's quite as effective for late game.

And nothing forbids you from comboing Purifier with Angurvadal or Crom Faeyr or any other item.

bluntpencil

2012-06-15, 09:29 AM

I don't tend to keep Keldorn in my party, since I like having Viconia. And I play a Cavalier Paladin, so I rock Carsomyr.

True, Flail of Ages is better, but I give that to Anomen or Minsc. Minsc packing the Flail of Ages in his main hand and Crom Faeyr in the other is badass.

How is Purifier with a shield? Sword and board Pallies are cool, too, I reckons.

mangosta71

2012-06-15, 09:36 AM

I don't tend to keep Keldorn in my party, since I like having Viconia.
If you play neutral or have decent charisma (or one of the mods that keeps your party from abandoning you/killing each other), you can keep both. The interactions between those two are a lot of fun. And, as has been said, Keldorn's dispel is ridiculously good.

Winthur

2012-06-15, 09:38 AM

How is Purifier with a shield? Sword and board Pallies are cool, too, I reckons.

Not really a huge fan of sword & board for the main damage dealers, they just don't provide that much utility IMHO, but some of them are decent early game, like Shield of Harmony.

And now we should all play BG online and make a humongous thread that will hype up playing BG online until we figure it's impossible to play. :smalltongue:

Mordokai

2012-06-15, 09:39 AM

I don't tend to keep Keldorn in my party, since I like having Viconia. And I play a Cavalier Paladin, so I rock Carsomyr.

I like both Cavaliers as well as inquisitors, but in my opinion, Cavalier makes for a better solo game. I tried one and had a pretty sweet time. In my experience, limited healing in form of spells and lay on hands, combined with other spells and turn undead has an edge over dispel magic. I remember blowing most liches right out. Not sure if it works with Kangaxx(certainly not with his demilich form), but most of the others can be killed right away, since turn undead passes all forms of magic protection.

bluntpencil

2012-06-15, 09:40 AM

If you play neutral or have decent charisma (or one of the mods that keeps your party from abandoning you/killing each other), you can keep both. The interactions between those two are a lot of fun. And, as has been said, Keldorn's dispel is ridiculously good.

That's weird. I had a Charisma of 18, and they still fought.

Abandoning the party is why I hate Aerie.

Calemyr

2012-06-15, 09:48 AM

That's weird. I had a Charisma of 18, and they still fought.

Abandoning the party is why I hate Aerie.

As was said, it is a mod. It doesn't stop the conflicts from happening, but it does allow you to convince them to simmer down if you have the charisma.

Kish

2012-06-15, 10:12 AM

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 10:25 AM

How is Purifier with a shield? Sword and board Pallies are cool, too, I reckons.

I actually tried a "bro-team" once with mainchar as a Cavalier with Purifier, Keldorn with Carsomyr, and Anomen with Flail of Ages. The Cavalier was a pretty good tank, and a good shield can add some good resistances/immunities. I'd recommend it.

On an unrelated note, nothing is funnier than Anomen making a lich explode by Turn Undead.

Kish

2012-06-15, 11:17 AM

Oh, I'd say Aerie doing so would qualify.

Morty

2012-06-15, 11:28 AM

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-15, 12:02 PM

Haer'Dalis challenging the protagonist for a duel because of Aerie is absolutely badass.

Just wanted to say that.

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 12:45 PM

Oh, I'd say Aerie doing so would qualify.

Ah, but with Anomen and his huge ego, I'd think it more ironic.

Haer'Dalis challenging the protagonist for a duel because of Aerie is absolutely badass.

Just wanted to say that.

Haer'dalis is an awesome character. Pity that he sucks so much in combat.

Winthur

2012-06-15, 12:51 PM

Haer'dalis is an awesome character. Pity that he sucks so much in combat.

Eh, he's a Blade, making him a pretty good Hero of Might & Magic (Blade is pretty much the best Bard kit), about the only problem he has being his low CON, but you can alleviate it by having someone else tank and only enter with Haer'dalis after the initiation. Plus when Haer'dalis has Tenser's Transformation then he really puts on the hurt. Actually, just Improved Invisibility or Mirror Image serves well for making him survive. Also, isn't there a belt to improve his CON anyway? He also starts off with decent weapons and has ** in Long and Short Swords (unattainable for another bard), which is a nice perk.

Morty

2012-06-15, 12:55 PM

I think I once had Haer'Dalis disintegrated - i.e. his portrait was gone - after a flaming boulder dropped on him in Saradush. But I could be misremembering and he was simply dropped in one shot.

Winthur

2012-06-15, 12:58 PM

I think I once had Haer'Dalis disintegrated - i.e. his portrait was gone - after a flaming boulder dropped on him in Saradush.

Seems to work as intended :smalltongue:

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 01:19 PM

Eh, he's a Blade, making him a pretty good Hero of Might & Magic (Blade is pretty much the best Bard kit), about the only problem he has being his low CON, but you can alleviate it by having someone else tank and only enter with Haer'dalis after the initiation. Plus when Haer'dalis has Tenser's Transformation then he really puts on the hurt. Actually, just Improved Invisibility or Mirror Image serves well for making him survive. Also, isn't there a belt to improve his CON anyway? He also starts off with decent weapons and has ** in Long and Short Swords (unattainable for another bard), which is a nice perk.

The thing is, every way you can boost him only serves to alleviate his weak points, while doing those same stuff to a real melee-ist makes them a beast in the front lines.

arguskos

2012-06-15, 01:19 PM

Haer'dalis is an awesome character. Pity that he sucks so much in combat.
He's not so much bad in combat as he is a finesse character. Ya can't just rush in there with him, you've got to use the spins he has strategically and make sure he's not drawing their fire. If he starts drawing aggro, get him the hell outta there or you'll be down a man.

Haer'Dalise is interesting to play with, since he's a pretty different combat style from almost anyone else. The rogue characters (Charname included) want to backstab as much as possible, but he can't do that. The fighters want to tank like champs, and he can't do that (even with the Con belt, since he just doesn't have enough life or enough armor options to really soak hits). He lacks the spell depth to mage it up (until reaaaaaally high levels, anyways). He comes with two points in Short Swords, as I recall, meaning he has a very strange weapon selection. He's so different from everyone else that I feel he doesn't get much love.

I <3 Haer'Dalis, and I'm proud to say it. Sadly, I can't take him with when I romance Aerie. :smallfrown:

Think of him like a skirmisher, not a front-liner, and that'll help your performance with him.

mangosta71

2012-06-15, 02:04 PM

Actually, mangosta said "or."

There is a common, incorrect belief that Charisma in some way (non-mod) influences NPC conflicts. It does not, though it can keep characters in the party when they would otherwise leave due to Reputation.
I didn't say that you can keep them from arguing. You can definitely keep them from leaving, and I'm pretty sure you can keep them from drawing steel and going to town on each other, even without mods.

Calemyr

2012-06-15, 02:11 PM

He's not so much bad in combat as he is a finesse character. Ya can't just rush in there with him, you've got to use the spins he has strategically and make sure he's not drawing their fire. If he starts drawing aggro, get him the hell outta there or you'll be down a man.

Haer'Dalise is interesting to play with, since he's a pretty different combat style from almost anyone else. The rogue characters (Charname included) want to backstab as much as possible, but he can't do that. The fighters want to tank like champs, and he can't do that (even with the Con belt, since he just doesn't have enough life or enough armor options to really soak hits). He lacks the spell depth to mage it up (until reaaaaaally high levels, anyways). He comes with two points in Short Swords, as I recall, meaning he has a very strange weapon selection. He's so different from everyone else that I feel he doesn't get much love.

I <3 Haer'Dalis, and I'm proud to say it. Sadly, I can't take him with when I romance Aerie. :smallfrown:

Think of him like a skirmisher, not a front-liner, and that'll help your performance with him.

You can have 'em both if you've already established your relationship with Aerie beforehand. You just can't grab Dirty Haer'y immediately.

arguskos

2012-06-15, 02:35 PM

You can have 'em both if you've already established your relationship with Aerie beforehand. You just can't grab Dirty Haer'y immediately.
Eh, it takes so long to get relationships settled and I like to have a solid party early that while it's technically possible, I rarely take that course. Good reminder though, it's been too long since I've played through BG2.

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 02:38 PM

He's not so much bad in combat as he is a finesse character. Ya can't just rush in there with him, you've got to use the spins he has strategically and make sure he's not drawing their fire. If he starts drawing aggro, get him the hell outta there or you'll be down a man.

Haer'Dalise is interesting to play with, since he's a pretty different combat style from almost anyone else. The rogue characters (Charname included) want to backstab as much as possible, but he can't do that. The fighters want to tank like champs, and he can't do that (even with the Con belt, since he just doesn't have enough life or enough armor options to really soak hits). He lacks the spell depth to mage it up (until reaaaaaally high levels, anyways). He comes with two points in Short Swords, as I recall, meaning he has a very strange weapon selection. He's so different from everyone else that I feel he doesn't get much love.

I <3 Haer'Dalis, and I'm proud to say it. Sadly, I can't take him with when I romance Aerie. :smallfrown:

Think of him like a skirmisher, not a front-liner, and that'll help your performance with him.

I agree with you, but I already know of how to make use of Haer'dalis in combat. I've finished the game with and without him. It's just that even with all those tactics, he is inferior to almost any other character in combat.

arguskos

2012-06-15, 02:49 PM

I agree with you, but I already know of how to make use of Haer'dalis in combat. I've finished the game with and without him. It's just that even with all those tactics, he is inferior to almost any other character in combat.
Nah, not in my experience. He can hit surprisingly hard, thanks to Offensive Spin and some decent gear.

I mean, Jan always suffers in combat (not casting, but combat). Crossbows are simply so terrible it makes me cry (the exception is, of course, Firetooth). Haer'Dalis is faaaaaar superior to Jan when it comes to fightin'. Of course, the gnome is a vastly better caster, but who's surprised by that one?

Cespenar

2012-06-15, 03:20 PM

Nah, not in my experience. He can hit surprisingly hard, thanks to Offensive Spin and some decent gear.

I mean, Jan always suffers in combat (not casting, but combat). Crossbows are simply so terrible it makes me cry (the exception is, of course, Firetooth). Haer'Dalis is faaaaaar superior to Jan when it comes to fightin'. Of course, the gnome is a vastly better caster, but who's surprised by that one?

Combat includes casting, you know. That's like saying Edwin sucks in combat because he can't deal good damage with his sling. Jan's schtick is casting, crossbows are only his last resort.

I'd easily put Haer'dalis in the last five (and I'm being generous) in general combat contribution.

You have to understand. I'm not saying that he can't contribute. I'm saying "in comparison".

Winthur

2012-06-15, 03:31 PM

Combat includes casting, you know. That's like saying Edwin sucks in combat because he can't deal good damage with his sling. Jan's schtick is casting, crossbows are only his last resort.

I'd easily put Haer'dalis in the last five (and I'm being generous) in general combat contribution.

Well, Jan is a multi-class mage whose class restriction doesn't allow him to cast Horrid Wilting which always makes me think of him as a meh choice for a primary spellcaster.

What I like about Haerry is how well he can make use of the spells that are self-cast only. Stone Skin + Tenser's + Protection from Magic Weapons + Offensive Spin? Yes please. He's like a lite Fighter/Magic/Thief with much lower XP requirements.

Oh sure, he will never be as strong as a CHARNAME Blade, but he fits the bill for the "Swordsage" character.

Also, Jesters are overpowered. At least in aPack. Or even without it. I once played a multiplayer game where I just felt like supporting with Jester. I love Death Spell for the massive amounts of souls flying to the air when you cast it on some mobs (particularly Umber Hulks) and here I just had to turn my song on and just stun/confuse/whatever a ton of mobs.

Zombimode

2012-06-16, 02:10 AM

I'd easily put Haer'dalis in the last five (and I'm being generous) in general combat contribution.

Haer'dalis' combat strength makes a quantum leap when he get epic abilities. Since bards belong to the "rogue" subtype of classes, he gets spiked traps. You don't know whats funny if you haven't seen Amelyssan getting killed by spiked traps the instant she spawns three times in a row.
And since Bards tend to level really fast, he gets a TON of spiked traps.

Cespenar

2012-06-16, 04:05 AM

Haer'dalis' combat strength makes a quantum leap when he get epic abilities. Since bards belong to the "rogue" subtype of classes, he gets spiked traps. You don't know whats funny if you haven't seen Amelyssan getting killed by spiked traps the instant she spawns three times in a row.
And since Bards tend to level really fast, he gets a TON of spiked traps.

Everyone becomes awesome with high level abilities anyway. Rogues get Use Any Item. Fighters get Whirlwind Attack, and mages get Planetar, Alacrity, etc. Moot point.

Not to mention spamming traps at spawn points is pretty much an exploit anyway, and a non-argument.

Zombimode

2012-06-16, 04:34 AM

Cespenar

2012-06-16, 05:25 AM

Nah, it's not more of an exploit as is pre-buffing. It's just that Spiked Traps are so ridiculously good that using them is considered cheap. Non-epic traps and the other two epic traps don't have this impact.

Also, what is an exploit/cheap tactic depends on the environment. If I play vanilla BG2/BGT, then yes, I don't use Spiked Traps.
But if I'm using the merciless Sword Coast Stratagems I/II then I need to use every trick and tactic available to me in order to win. If your not familiar with SCS: its a difficulty modification that consist about at least 90% of AI-modifications. So in contrast to other difficulty mods, which for the most part just inflate the numbers of certain enemies and thus creating a rather "fake" and unbalanced difficulty, SCS just puts the enemies on a more equal footing with the player-controlled party.

Putting a trap or two around where you think enemies will come is not cheap. Spamming 20 traps under where you know Kangaxx/Amelissan/what-have-you will spawn is the very definition of cheap.

Besides, I fail to see the point resorting to such exploits when you yourself said that a mod like SCS doesn't employ fake difficulty.

Anyway, returning to the Haer'dalis subject (serious business and all :smalltongue:), I think it would be a rather smoother understanding if I'd simply asked people to sort the characters according to their combat contribution, but that would take too long.

Archonic Energy

2012-06-16, 05:49 AM

Aye aye. :smallbiggrin:

you have shineys?

Scarlet-Devil

2012-06-23, 12:28 PM

I'm going to have to agree with most people here about the "Enchanced Edition". Sure, it sounds very nice but they've been very stingy with actual information about how it's going to look like. If it's good, I might renew my efforts to create a duelist-style Fighter kit.

Isn't Swashbuckler basically a "duelist-style fighter"? That's certainly how I tend to think of it.

But yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Especially since they're raising the experience cap and adding new content to explore. I never did every single dungeon in my earlier play-through anyway.

Morty

2012-06-23, 12:33 PM

Not really. It's a Thief that can fight better than a normal one in exchange for no backstabs, but still a Thief.

Winthur

2012-06-23, 01:10 PM

Not really. It's a Thief that can fight better than a normal one in exchange for no backstabs, but still a Thief.

A Thief that goes -25 AC in late game and thus out-tanks every other character in the game while having fighting prowess of a frontliner class... :smalltongue:

Doesn't Kensai work for a duelist-style kit?

If not Kensai, then maybe Morituri?

Scarlet-Devil

2012-06-23, 03:29 PM

Not really. It's a Thief that can fight better than a normal one in exchange for no backstabs, but still a Thief.

A swashbuckler is basically a lightly armored warrior with an increasing AC. What would you do differently to make a 'duelist' type?

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-23, 03:30 PM

Morituri is not official, though.

Morty

2012-06-23, 03:34 PM

A Thief that goes -25 AC in late game and thus out-tanks every other character in the game while having fighting prowess of a frontliner class... :smalltongue:

Doesn't Kensai work for a duelist-style kit?

If not Kensai, then maybe Morituri?

A swashbuckler is basically a lightly armored warrior with an increasing AC. What would you do differently to make a 'duelist' type?

Yes, in the finale, with twinking, the Swashbuckler's AC can get sky-high. But on the lower levels, he's still got a Thief's hit points and doesn't get additional attacks. I would know, I played a Swashbuckler from BG2 to the end.
As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.

Scarlet-Devil

2012-06-23, 03:58 PM

Yes, in the finale, with twinking, the Swashbuckler's AC can get sky-high. But on the lower levels, he's still got a Thief's hit points and doesn't get additional attacks. I would know, I played a Swashbuckler from BG2 to the end.
As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.

Everyone probably has a slightly different image of the 'duelist' archetype, but to me the hit points don't matter much; the duelist is sort've a fragile speedster who avoids hits rather than 'taking' them. I also don't imagine a duelist as making lots of attacks, partly because thrusting swords have a tendency to get stuck in the enemy.

I like the idea of the stances though, especially the defensive one.

Morty

2012-06-23, 04:23 PM

I suppose "Duelist" might not have been the best choice of a word. What I want to make is a lightly armoured, nimble warrior who is nonetheless still a fighter rather than a thief and who can use all the melee weapons fighters can.

mangosta71

2012-06-24, 09:51 AM

Step 1: Start at level 1 as a kensai.
Step 2: Dual class to thief at mid level (probably during chapter 2 of SoA so you have enough content to level up enough to regain your kensai stuff before you go to Spellhold).
Step 3: Use any item.

Morty

2012-06-24, 10:14 AM

So I can get to wear armor at the end of Shadows of Amn? Sorry, but no. Is it so hard to accept I want to craft a kit tailored to my preferences?

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-24, 01:05 PM

So I can get to wear armor at the end of Shadows of Amn? Sorry, but no. Is it so hard to accept I want to craft a kit tailored to my preferences?

I don't think anyone is stopping you from doing so. You can't stop people from disagreeing with you, though.

Mordokai

2012-06-24, 01:10 PM

Morituri is not official, though.

Are we talking about the kit that molds monk and barbarian(and maybe even paladin) in one class and calls it balanced? If that's the one, thanks god it's not official.

Seriously, I don't remember what excatly it's about and I'm too lazy to search for it. But I remember seeing the kit when I started playing BG and I remember it folded three classes into one. It was a sick class and not in a good way.

Divayth Fyr

2012-06-24, 05:11 PM

It's not just that, it's even worse
Advantages:
-Immune to backstab, +1 to str/dex/con on character creation.
-Movement speed, armour class and saving throws improvements according to combat experience.*
-Gains Armor of Light ability according to his/her combat experience.**
-Gains Heaven's Touch by becoming the LightBringer ***
-Bonus +1 to hit/damage for every 3 levels.
-Bonus -1 to speed factor for every 4 levels.
-Physical, elemental and magic resistance improvements per level.****

-Apprentice: immune to all diseases,and cannot be slowed or hasted.*****
-Expert: Immune to charm and poison.
-Spartian: Immune to fear.
-Morituri: Permanent protection from evil, +1 str/dex/con bonus, regenerate 1hp/sec.
-LightBringer: Immune to stun & blindness, +1 bonus attack per round, +1 str/dex/con bonus,regenerate 2hp/sec.

Disadvantages:
-May not use missile weapons or bows.
-May not use any magic items except weapons and boots.
-May become proficient up to grand mastery only with weapons that comply with the Way of the Sword.
-Cannot stray away from the teachings of the Order.
-Must be of good alignment.
-Humans only.

*-2AC, -2 movement speed, -2 saving throws every 7 levels (saving throws max out at -8 in the Morituri level).
** A combination of Kai and Berserker enrage Armour of Light provides maximum damage for the first 6 seconds plus +2 to hit/damage, -2 to Armour Class, , immunity to death magic,charm,hold,fear,maze,imprisonment,stun,sleep ,level drain,+15 hit points, +4 movement modifier,-2 attack speed for 60 seconds. After that the Morituri becomes fatigued for 30 seconds: -4 to hit/damage, +4 penalty to AC, -15 hit points, -8 movement modifier,+4 attack speed.
*** Heaven's Touch: a combination of Mass Cure, Sunray, Nature's Beauty, Wing Buffet and Protection from Evil 10' radius spells inspired by Solafein's Moonrays and Moonfruit's Improved House Je'elat battle.
**** Resistance to missile,crushing,piercing,slashing,fire,cold,acid, electricity 1% per level + resistance to magic 2% per level up to level 39.
***** Apprentice: level 7, Expert: level 14, Spartian: level 21, Morituri: level 28, LightBringer: level 35.

Winthur

2012-06-24, 06:22 PM

Well, if you want a duelist, you can also make a sorcerer focusing on summons, make Deck of Many Things your core item, and at the end of every duel you could just banish the enemy into a realm of emptiness where they'd reside for eternity. Bonus points if with Vecna + Acceleration (or whatever the X-level spell that makes your spells cast superfast) + Amulet of Power you can summon a bunch of monsters in one turn.

Kish

2012-06-24, 08:54 PM

I don't think anyone is stopping you from doing so. You can't stop people from disagreeing with you, though.
"Disagreeing with you"...what an odd phrase here. He hasn't said anything that is subject to agreement; you "disagree with him" that he wants what he thinks he wants?

It would be more accurate to say, "You can't stop people from giving you a hard time about it, though."

At least with the currently-out game, making kits is perhaps the easiest part of modding, so he shouldn't have any trouble making what he wants if WeiDU works with the new edition of the game. Which it very well may not, which would be...unfortunate, to say the least.

Scarlet-Devil

2012-06-24, 08:57 PM

mangosta71

2012-06-24, 10:40 PM

Bonus points if with Vecna + Acceleration (or whatever the X-level spell that makes your spells cast superfast) + Amulet of Power you can summon a bunch of monsters in one turn.
The spell is Improved Alacrity. And it doesn't make your spells cast faster - it just allows you to start casting another spell immediately after the first finishes rather than having to wait until the next round. So what you do, is make you're set to auto-pause after every cast, cast Time Stop, then Improved Alacrity, then, with Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power pretty much every spell you know below level 4 or 5 has a cast time of 0, so you blow through all of them. Your level 10 spells will also be reduced to 0, so cast them, too. When Time Stop wears off, avert your eyes because the whole screen is going to light up. When all the flashing stops, open your eyes and start looting.

This is one of the times when a mage/cleric is actually kind of cool, just so you can throw a Storm of Vengeance into the mix. Not that you need to, it just looks awesome with the comets falling everywhere, and the magic missiles and flame arrows blazing off in all directions, etc.

Winthur

2012-06-25, 12:37 AM

The spell is Improved Alacrity. And it doesn't make your spells cast faster - it just allows you to start casting another spell immediately after the first finishes rather than having to wait until the next round. So what you do, is make you're set to auto-pause after every cast, cast Time Stop, then Improved Alacrity, then, with Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power pretty much every spell you know below level 4 or 5 has a cast time of 0, so you blow through all of them. Your level 10 spells will also be reduced to 0, so cast them, too. When Time Stop wears off, avert your eyes because the whole screen is going to light up. When all the flashing stops, open your eyes and start looting.

Yeah, I was aware of all this except for the English name of Improved Alacrity. Dunno how Gorion dies in BG1 when he seems to have access to that spell as well. :smalltongue:

Cespenar

2012-06-25, 01:27 AM

As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.

I would say go with this. It doesn't seem stronger than a Kensai/Mage or a Berserker/Cleric or heck, a pure Inquisitor.

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 05:26 AM

"Disagreeing with you"...what an odd phrase here. He hasn't said anything that is subject to agreement; you "disagree with him" that he wants what he thinks he wants?
I disagree that you need to create a kit to get something you can already do in the game.
He wants to create a kit because he wants to create a kit, not because you can't build a duelist in the standard game engine.

Morty

2012-06-25, 06:45 AM

You can't get what I want with the current game engine. Kensai is too much of a glass cannon for my purposes - not to mention I want him to wear armour, which Kensai can't - and a Swashbuckler is a beefed-up Thief, but still a Thief. Whether or not you call the end result a duelist is just nitpicking.

Kish

2012-06-25, 07:01 AM

I disagree that you need to create a kit to get something you can already do in the game.

Either you haven't taken in anything he's said but the word "duelist," or you're arguing that you can create a lightly-armored, but not-unarmored, nimble fighter who can use all fighter weapons, have fighter hit points, and have fighter THAC0 progression, well before having access to Throne of Bhaal's high level abilities, in the unmodded game. Or, of course, you're just not admitting that there's nothing to "disagree with" because "I disagree with you" sounds better than, "I reserve my right to go right on giving you a hard time about what you want to do."

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 07:38 AM

Either you haven't taken in anything he's said but the word "duelist," or you're arguing that you can create a lightly-armored, but not-unarmored, nimble fighter who can use all fighter weapons, have fighter hit points, and have fighter THAC0 progression, well before having access to Throne of Bhaal's high level abilities, in the unmodded game. Or, of course, you're just not admitting that there's nothing to "disagree with" because "I disagree with you" sounds better than, "I reserve my right to go right on giving you a hard time about what you want to do."

Ever heard of the Stalker Ranger kit?

Kish

2012-06-25, 07:53 AM

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 09:26 AM

Well done. You've found another thing that clearly isn't what Morty wants but technically fulfills his currently stated requirements (well, some of them; it's not particularly about being nimble). And so you get to chalk up another point, and he has to revise his description of what he wants to make yet again if he is optimistic enough to try to keep interacting with you. I really can't say I see the point of what you're doing, though.
You are completely missing the point.
If what he wants is to play a duelist under the game's engine, I'm saving him the time he would take to design, implement and playtest a kit by telling him "it can be done this way, or that way".
If he said "I want to create a kit, because I feel like doing so" that's one thing... and that's not what he did. If what he wants is to create a kit, then I'd be helping him by giving him advice towards doing that. Which is basically what I told him beforehand - he wants people to agree with him that you can't create a duelist in the current engine, but the fact is you can and people have pointed out repeatedly (and politely, I might add). I wasn't even one of the people "giving him a hard time", so I really don't see the point of all your whiteknighting.

Morty

2012-06-25, 09:43 AM

Kish explained my point quite well, but I'll reiterate anyway - no, you cannot make what I want with existing game engine. I've explained why. I don't want to make a kit for the sake of making a kit, so it would be nice if you'd stop repeating it. I want to make a kit because the concept behind it cannot be replicated with existing classes - you can come close, but something will always be missing.

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 10:37 AM

mangosta71

2012-06-25, 11:25 AM

For the record, I never found my kensai character to be a glass cannon, so I'm not sure what that's all about. His AC bonus from kensai may not have been equivalent to the best armor in the game, but I still easily got into negatives.

But anyway, if I understand correctly you want THAC0, hp, and weapon ability of a fighter. All you want from thief is "nimble" and light armor - I see no mention of any of the thief skills in your list. What's the problem with a straight fighter with high dex who chooses to wear leather instead of something heavier?

Kish

2012-06-25, 11:30 AM

But anyway, if I understand correctly you want THAC0, hp, and weapon ability of a fighter. All you want from thief is "nimble" and light armor - I see no mention of any of the thief skills in your list. What's the problem with a straight fighter with high dex who chooses to wear leather instead of something heavier?
There's no benefit to not wearing the heaviest armor you can wear, unless they block class abilities, which they don't for a fighter. Is it really so unclear that "nimble and lightly-armored" here means "a character with dexterity-oriented abilities normal Strength-based melee fighters don't get who cannot wear heavy armor," not just, "a fighter with weird stat prioritization who chooses to use suboptimal armor"?

Morty

2012-06-25, 11:34 AM

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 11:40 AM

There's no benefit to not wearing the heaviest armor you can wear, unless they block class abilities, which they don't for a fighter. Is it really so unclear that "nimble and lightly-armored" here means "a character with dexterity-oriented abilities normal Strength-based melee fighters don't get who cannot wear heavy armor," not just, "a fighter with weird stat prioritization who chooses to use suboptimal armor"?
Actually, up to now, I've only seen you mention Strenght. If he wants a Fighter type with low Str, yes, he's going to need a new kit. He never said that, though.
Unless he adds a Str cap to such kit, though, it's going to end up seriously overpowered.

mangosta71

2012-06-25, 12:19 PM

Because I don't want to play a suboptimal Fighter? :smallconfused: I'm not so dedicated to this concept as to cripple my character.
So you're...creating a kit that makes no changes to a straight fighter other than removing the heavy armor proficiency? Simply so that you can play a character that's exactly like what I described, but isn't "suboptimal" because he can't wear anything heavier rather than simply choosing to wear light armor? :smallconfused:

Morty

2012-06-25, 12:24 PM

...

Yes, in the finale, with twinking, the Swashbuckler's AC can get sky-high. But on the lower levels, he's still got a Thief's hit points and doesn't get additional attacks. I would know, I played a Swashbuckler from BG2 to the end.
As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.

I said what it does. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that I'm just going to cut its armour proficiency from.

Kish

2012-06-25, 12:25 PM

So you're...creating a kit that makes no changes to a straight fighter other than removing the heavy armor proficiency?
Is that what he said?

As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances.
...Doesn't look like it.

Winthur

2012-06-25, 01:57 PM

Well Morty I honestly think the Beastmaster kit is exactly what you are looking for in a Duelist.

Morty

2012-06-25, 02:04 PM

I dunno, it's kinda overpowered, isn't it? :smalltongue:

Kish

2012-06-25, 02:39 PM

Nah, your duelist should totally be a Priest of Talos.

Winthur

2012-06-25, 02:51 PM

Nah, your duelist should totally be a Priest of Talos.
Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
(I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)

ThiagoMartell

2012-06-25, 03:08 PM

Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
(I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)

Who the hell is Kinski anyway?

Morty

2012-06-26, 08:08 AM

Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
(I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)

Not sure how. Beastmaster trades proficiency in worthwhile weapons in exchange for summoning animals that can't threaten anyone past a certain level.
On the subject of kits, I'm reminded how, in my search for Fighter kits, I ran across another overpowered one. It's called Anti-Paladin and it has all the abilities of an Inquisitor, Fighter's XP progression and weapon proficiency and it casts Dispel Magic on hit.

Kish

2012-06-26, 08:16 AM

Pretty sure Winthur is, as I am, making a joke about people's efforts to get you to do something that isn't what you want.

Morty

2012-06-26, 08:18 AM

Oh, I know. I was making a comment on the possibility, or lack thereof, of making Beastmaster a good kit.

Winthur

2012-06-26, 08:37 AM

Not sure how. Beastmaster trades proficiency in worthwhile weapons in exchange for summoning animals that can't threaten anyone past a certain level.

Nice try guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OelHPDBSiJg&t=52s)

Also, maybe Beastmaster is one of those classes that become really strong when mixed with TuTu and played in BG1? Like Totemic Druid?

Jeivar

2012-07-02, 12:21 PM

So . . . I'm wondering why there has been absolutely no news for a while now. The latest update at the baldursgate.com site is from May 10th.

Has someone with more internet-fu than me heard something?

Jeivar

2012-07-03, 03:42 PM

J.Gellert

2012-07-03, 04:34 PM

I am not really excited but the lack of news seemed interesting enough to check.

There's "news" on Twitter, for example here https://twitter.com/#!/TrentOster

There's mention of DLC :smallyuk:

Mx.Silver

2012-07-03, 07:30 PM

There are apparently plans to include some new NPCs as DLC. Beyond that, things are still pretty quiet.

Khosan

2012-07-03, 10:32 PM

There are apparently plans to include some new NPCs as DLC. Beyond that, things are still pretty quiet.

...

Deekin?

Seharvepernfan

2012-07-04, 02:48 AM

Anyone? Am I the only one excited about this?

No, but I don't know any more than you do.

In other news, I went through and played the series start to finish in fall 2009. The idea was, this is my last time through, I'm going to play the perfect character for me, I'm going to play it right, and I'm going to do everything, and I did, and it was great. NOW they're bringing it back with more content? It's been about three years...is that long enough for a complete rerun?

I played a male elf fighter/mage/thief. Stats started as 18/93, 19, 7, 18, 13, 13 (not too sure about charisma). Apparently a 7 con is about the same as a 10 in 3rd edition. Used longswords and longbows, natch. I hate not being able to use an item that I have, and I hate not having the ability to do something. The thief skills are a bit slow to pick up, but with items you're usually good enough (until ToB). You also level up extremely slowly at the start, but it's worth it later on.

I'm tempted to play the same thing again, but I still haven't decided. I think the game assumes a male paladin, it might be fun to give that a shot. I really like that first portrait.

I can't remember who exactly I used besides the people I usually use, but this time I plan on using Kivan this time, because I've never used him before due to his less-than-Coran's stats. I'm also going to allow Eldoth into my party until I get Skie, then murder him when she's out of the room (I think a 19str longsword backstab oughta chunk him). I've never used either of them, either. I'll probably use any new npcs, just to experience them.

Calemyr

2012-07-12, 11:49 AM

No, but I don't know any more than you do.

In other news, I went through and played the series start to finish in fall 2009. The idea was, this is my last time through, I'm going to play the perfect character for me, I'm going to play it right, and I'm going to do everything, and I did, and it was great. NOW they're bringing it back with more content? It's been about three years...is that long enough for a complete rerun?

I played a male elf fighter/mage/thief. Stats started as 18/93, 19, 7, 18, 13, 13 (not too sure about charisma). Apparently a 7 con is about the same as a 10 in 3rd edition. Used longswords and longbows, natch. I hate not being able to use an item that I have, and I hate not having the ability to do something. The thief skills are a bit slow to pick up, but with items you're usually good enough (until ToB). You also level up extremely slowly at the start, but it's worth it later on.

I'm tempted to play the same thing again, but I still haven't decided. I think the game assumes a male paladin, it might be fun to give that a shot. I really like that first portrait.

I can't remember who exactly I used besides the people I usually use, but this time I plan on using Kivan this time, because I've never used him before due to his less-than-Coran's stats. I'm also going to allow Eldoth into my party until I get Skie, then murder him when she's out of the room (I think a 19str longsword backstab oughta chunk him). I've never used either of them, either. I'll probably use any new npcs, just to experience them.

Kivan is a solid ally and a solid character, especially in a Tutu or Trilogy game and unquestionably so if you give him the Archer kit for the Rangers. He's not that interesting a character, just a good man on a roaring rampage of revenge - the source of good movies, but not fascinating sidekicks.

Curse you, Seharvepernfan. Curse you for bringing up the concept of a new run of the old game. Do you know how many hours you have just killed of mine? Who do I play? Calemyr, the fighter/thief? Scion, the monk? Ardgein, the axe mage? Who do I take along this time? CRAAAAAP! Any particularly interesting NPC mods in the last couple years?

And Jeivar? No, you're not alone. The silence is driving me nuts. BG2 is one of my happiest memories of college (all-night LAN parties in the computer lab, good times), so I really hope they do it right.

But we see no evidence anywhere of how they're changing it, if they're keeping the old ham-rich, improbably russian accents, and such. The only screens I've ever seen used screenshots of the original game. I've got absolutely nothing and it's really bothering me.

Weezer

2012-07-12, 12:09 PM

For those who didn't catch it the twitter account linked up-thread just confirmed that BGEE will be released before end of the summer.

Kish

2012-07-12, 12:57 PM

Kivan is a solid ally and a solid character, especially in a Tutu or Trilogy game and unquestionably so if you give him the Archer kit for the Rangers. He's not that interesting a character, just a good man on a roaring rampage of revenge - the source of good movies, but not fascinating sidekicks.
You left out "constantly stoned" ("Why are we in this dungeon, I ask repeatedly with a gratuitous dig at dwarves." "That was a noble deed. I am not going to clarify which deed I mean. It may have been hours or days ago, and I may have already said that a dozen times."), "randomly insulting" ("To compliment one of my companions, I will insult all the others!"), and "whiny."

Morty

2012-07-12, 01:43 PM

To be fair though, many of the Baldur's Gate 1 NPCs were a little... out there.

Calemyr

2012-07-12, 01:50 PM

To be fair though, many of the Baldur's Gate 1 NPCs were a little... out there.

Yeah. The writing for BG2 was much better where NPCs were concerned, and BG2 didn't have completely useless throwaway characters like Tiax and Quayle (a cleric with 10 wisdom? seriously?). That's one of the things I really liked about Tutu/Trilogy - the BG1NPC project, which turned most of their nonsense into BG2 style banters and added things like romances (I thought Dynaheir's was excellent). That mod made BG1 enjoyable for me, because it really wasn't in the original form.

Morty

2012-07-12, 01:55 PM

Mods certainly help, yes. I'm not sure which ones I used when I last played Baldur's Gate Trilogy - which was about a year ago, I think - but I certainly did use some. There was one that moves Alora to Gullykin, so she's a little bit more practical to recruit... it was a part of one of the big mods, I think. If I were to make a party with Safana - like I once did in vanilla BG1 - I'd also look for a mod that moves her, since otherwise she's found in the middle of nowhere.

bluntpencil

2012-07-12, 02:06 PM

There are apparently plans to include some new NPCs as DLC. Beyond that, things are still pretty quiet.

Solaufein, in SoA might be cool.

Calemyr

2012-07-12, 02:23 PM

Solaufein, in SoA might be cool.

I hope not. I really didn't like that mod. Where it wasn't dull it was overdone, where it wasn't overdone it reeked of Sue. Viconia was a decent dark elf companion, but I don't want a setting where Nale's comment that all drow are now chaotic good rebels to be true. There are so many more interesting mNPCs to go after. Kelsey being an obvious one in my book, and Keto was promising, just never extended into ToB.

If there were two NPC mods I'd want implemented, though, it'd probably be d'Arnise Romance and the non-romantic half of the Imoen Romance mod, because I really think both of them could have really been great with some more substance. Imoen is always great, of course, but her lack of banters in anything before ToB is kinda sad, and even that is bugged.

Nalia always struck me as an ideal counter to the vanilla romance options, if only because she was a non-elven, non-divine caster. She also had a great deal less in the way of emotional baggage, surprisingly for someone who only recently saw her own father and most of the castle staff killed. She's more or less my head-cannon choice for the love interest, if only they'd ever add ToB content to it...

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-12, 02:31 PM

I hope not. I really didn't like that mod.
If they add Solaufein as a character, I doubt he'd be anywhere similar to the mod.
Solaufein the NPC is not even Chaotic Good like that dude in the mod - he's Lawful Neutral.

I'd really like to have Solaufein as a possible NPC. He is an interesting character and a different twist on drow. The only other character like him that I know is Ryld Argith and he is the most awesome character in all of his series.

bluntpencil

2012-07-12, 02:49 PM

I hope not. I really didn't like that mod. Where it wasn't dull it was overdone, where it wasn't overdone it reeked of Sue. Viconia was a decent dark elf companion, but I don't want a setting where Nale's comment that all drow are now chaotic good rebels to be true. There are so many more interesting mNPCs to go after. Kelsey being an obvious one in my book, and Keto was promising, just never extended into ToB.

If there were two NPC mods I'd want implemented, though, it'd probably be d'Arnise Romance and the non-romantic half of the Imoen Romance mod, because I really think both of them could have really been great with some more substance. Imoen is always great, of course, but her lack of banters in anything before ToB is kinda sad, and even that is bugged.

Nalia always struck me as an ideal counter to the vanilla romance options, if only because she was a non-elven, non-divine caster. She also had a great deal less in the way of emotional baggage, surprisingly for someone who only recently saw her own father and most of the castle staff killed. She's more or less my head-cannon choice for the love interest, if only they'd ever add ToB content to it...

I didn't mean the mod, I meant properly developed.

Rake21

2012-07-12, 02:52 PM

You left out "constantly stoned" ("Why are we in this dungeon, I ask repeatedly with a gratuitous dig at dwarves." "That was a noble deed. I am not going to clarify which deed I mean. It may have been hours or days ago, and I may have already said that a dozen times."), "randomly insulting" ("To compliment one of my companions, I will insult all the others!"), and "whiny."

In Kivan's defense, he's pretty damn good at killing, and much less obnoxious than one of Bioware's later whinny-companions cough*Carth*cough.

arguskos

2012-07-12, 02:53 PM

Calemyr

2012-07-12, 03:14 PM

I didn't mean the mod, I meant properly developed.

You... you mean... properly developed? Okay, I take it back, that would be kinda cool. By the end of your time in the Underdark, Sol is an exile who has already admitted to you that he is secretly devoted to a generally pleasant deity.

He could have indeed been made into something interesting, if he were written as a proper ensemble character and not as a second main character. Yeah, I take it back, that could be good, although he'd be a rather late addition.

Still, I'd rather they flesh out some of the more rushed characters and include dropped content like Haer'dalis and Aerie. If they can do both, of course, sweet.

If they do not add the Xan BG2 mod to BG2EE I will burn their houses down in outrage. It may be the greatest NPC mod for BG2, though Keto, Kelsey, Fade, Angelo BG2, and perhaps Varshoon are all worth inclusion as well.

Never tried Xan... Is he really that good? Maybe he'll have to be my new 6th. Does he have ToB content?

arguskos

2012-07-12, 04:35 PM

Never tried Xan... Is he really that good? Maybe he'll have to be my new 6th. Does he have ToB content?
He is pretty solid if you don't romance him, and unbelievable if you do. Worth playing a female character for his romance alone (there's three or four romance paths, all of which are awesome and highly detailed).

He is voice acted (well), has scads and scads of content, never Sue's, is well-written, and has ToB content that varies based on your romance path with him. It's... it's really amazing. I can't suggest it enough.

Wraith

2012-07-12, 04:36 PM

I might just be making crazed wishes without any grounding in reality, but I would declare undying allegiance to Bioware forever if they come up with a Mazzy Fentan Romance option. :smallredface:

Winthur

2012-07-12, 09:48 PM

He is voice acted (well), has scads and scads of content, never Sue's, is well-written, and has ToB content that varies based on your romance path with him. It's... it's really amazing. I can't suggest it enough.

What good is a mage if I can't spam Magic Missiles D:

(Screw Fireball, Exploding Skull all the way)

arguskos

2012-07-12, 09:51 PM

What good is a mage if I can't spam Magic Missiles D:

(Screw Fireball, Exploding Skull all the way)
Haha the mod can fix that too! Ever wanted Xan to be a normal Mage, a Wild Mage, or a Fighter/Mage? Xan BG2 has got ya covered! :smallbiggrin:

Also, yeah, Skull Trap is amazing. Big love to Skull Trap.

Winthur

2012-07-12, 10:00 PM

Haha the mod can fix that too! Ever wanted Xan to be a normal Mage, a Wild Mage, or a Fighter/Mage? Xan BG2 has got ya covered! :smallbiggrin:

Dude, playing D&D 3.5 with casual friends who only played Baldur's Gate is so funny when they look at your list of spells and are like "Color Spray?? Sleep?? Where's Magic Missile?????" :smalltongue:

Also, I'd prefer to keep it pure anyway. Any other great Evocation spells that get banned along Magic Missile? Maybe I'll pick Xan up for my next playthrough (together with Edwin, for instance)

mangosta71

2012-07-13, 12:24 AM

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-13, 01:19 AM

Don't forget Grease. Completely useless in cRPGs, great in tabletop.

That's more a matter of AD&D vs 3.5 than cRPG vs tabletop

arguskos

2012-07-13, 01:42 AM

Dude, playing D&D 3.5 with casual friends who only played Baldur's Gate is so funny when they look at your list of spells and are like "Color Spray?? Sleep?? Where's Magic Missile?????" :smalltongue:
Been there. I still prepare MM 1/day on my 3.5 mages. Gotta show some respect for the heavy classics! :smallcool:

Also, I'd prefer to keep it pure anyway. Any other great Evocation spells that get banned along Magic Missile? Maybe I'll pick Xan up for my next playthrough (together with Edwin, for instance)
One moment. Let me check.

*fires up ShadowKeeper*

The spells I care about that you lose by dropping Evocation include the following:
-Chromatic Orb (ever since I one-shot the Shadow Dragon with this spell I always keep one on hand)
-Magic Missile (herpderpamazing)
-Web (this one hurts to lose, IMO)
-Lightning Bolt (you can replace Fireball with Skull Trap easily enough, but the Bolt is tougher to replace due to nothing else duplicating the ricochet effect)
-Ice Storm (eh, it's a decent spell but not too rough to lose)
-Cloudkill (not great later on, but good in the early stages of BG2 and an ABSOLUTE house in BG1)
-Sunfire (sad for Fighter/Mages who like being trolls)
-Chain Lightning (a personal favorite, but not really that amazing)
-Death Fog (see above)
-Delayed Blast Fireball (this one is rough to lose, stacking these is just too fun)
-Mordenkainen's Sword (damn, I forgot this was Evoc, it huuuuuurts to lose the Sword)
-Every Sequencer spell (also, a really bad set of things to lose)
-The Bigby's Hand spells (I kinda like 'em, but they're meh)
-Meteor Swarm (a decent AoE, but Horrid Wilting is better)
-Wish (by technicality, Wish is an Invoc/Evoc spell as well as a Conj spell. I don't recall if banning Evoc means you lose Wish as well, but if so, there's that to consider)

Overall, the loss of some seriously powerful spells (Sword, Sequencers, MM) makes me wary to drop the school. You can probably get away with it, but I'd advise against having no access to Evoc in your party.

Logic

2012-07-13, 02:49 AM

After looking at the Forgotten Realms wiki to see all these characters you keep mentioning, I realize I must have missed out on over half the game! So many NPCs I never heard of, used and in most cases never even met! (Though, some were modded characters, and I still don't think I have ever installed a mod on ANY game myself.)

This is a MUST BUY.

Kish

2012-07-13, 08:02 AM

-Meteor Swarm (a decent AoE, but Horrid Wilting is better)
More to the point, by the time you can cast it, you can also cast Dragon's Breath or Comet with the same slots.

Morty

2012-07-13, 08:08 AM

Hm, the Xan mod does look pretty good. If my Fighter of an as of yet unnamed modded kit ends up Lawful Neutral rather than Lawful Evil, maybe I'll consider installing it and recruiting him.
As for Solaufein, I'm not sure how well-written he is but he'd suffer from the same problem as Imoen - he appears late in the game when you already have a complete party. So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.

Zombimode

2012-07-13, 08:18 AM

Don't forget Grease. Completely useless in cRPGs, great in tabletop.

Everyone who makes such statements obviously hasn't played BG1. Or sucked at it (note: you can suck at playing BG and not noticing it, because the games are not very hard).

Grease, Color Spray and Sleep are BOMBS in BG1.
It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.

Kish

2012-07-13, 08:30 AM

You can tell Solaufein to meet you outside the Underdark, I'm pretty sure.

Cespenar

2012-07-13, 08:59 AM

So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.

I'd think they would magically return to Five Flagons Inn Copper Coronet, and wait for you there. :smalltongue:

mangosta71

2012-07-13, 08:59 AM

As for Solaufein, I'm not sure how well-written he is but he'd suffer from the same problem as Imoen - he appears late in the game when you already have a complete party.
Imoen reenters the game right when Yoshimo leaves the party, so you don't have to make a spot for her. Unless you, for some odd reason, don't keep Yoshimo.

So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.
Well, you can tell whoever you boot to meet you in the Copper Coronet.

Everyone who makes such statements obviously hasn't played BG1. Or sucked at it (note: you can suck at playing BG and not noticing it, because the games are not very hard).

Grease, Color Spray and Sleep are BOMBS in BG1.
It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.
Grease is good in tabletop because you can always put it at your opponents' feet. Also, you can cast it on slopes so your enemies slip and slide all the way down - in BG1&2, they just fall wherever they are with no sliding down hills. Also also, in a real-time cRPG, by the time you cast it and the projectile travels, your target has moved out of the area of effect (unless they're not moving, ie already attacking one of your party members, in which case you're also hitting said party member). You can hit archers and casters reliably, but I usually prefer to just have my melee rush archers and spam MM at casters to keep them from getting any spells off.

I do use Color Spray and Sleep to good effect, though. While I can. However, the only first level spell that really remains relevant beyond level 4 or so is Magic Missile - at that point, everything you're fighting has too many HD to be affected by anything else.

Kish

2012-07-13, 09:24 AM

Well, you can tell whoever you boot to meet you in the Copper Coronet.
You can't, no. Not in the Underdark. Unless you're past Chapter Five they have no means of leaving the Underdark alone and no guarantee of surviving the trip if they did.

Morty

2012-07-13, 09:59 AM

I'd think they would magically return to Five Flagons Inn Copper Coronet, and wait for you there. :smalltongue:

If you leave anyone in the Spellhold, they're stuck there. I think the same applies to the Underdark. However, Imoen can leave on her own and go to the Copper Coronet.

Imoen reenters the game right when Yoshimo leaves the party, so you don't have to make a spot for her. Unless you, for some odd reason, don't keep Yoshimo.

Well, I didn't keep Yoshimo in most of my playthroughs. In the one where I did keep him until the Spellhold, I was playing an evil bastard and I filled his spot with Sarevok.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-13, 11:17 AM

It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.

Grease is nowhere near as good in AD&D as it is in 3.5. Make everyone flat-footed with no save?!

As for Solaufein, I'm not sure how well-written he is but he'd suffer from the same problem as Imoen - he appears late in the game when you already have a complete party. So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.

The Solaufein mod is awful. I really hope they consider impleting him as an NPC, even if only through DLC.

Calemyr

2012-07-13, 11:43 AM

The Solaufein mod is awful. I really hope they consider impleting him as an NPC, even if only through DLC.

There seem to be two seperate arguments on Solaufein:

1) Sol should be an NPC. That is to say, not - I repeat not - using the existing mod as anything beyond a reminder that the guy exists. He is an interesting character in the core game and could be expanded to true companion complexity without much difficulty.

2) Sol shows up late. This is a genuine concern. Imoen resurfaces late as well, but she's already an established party member at that time and her obvious replacement leaves at the same time she comes back. By the time you run into Sol, you've got a party and no slot will magically open up for him. The only character that shows up afterwards is Sarevok and he's ToB.

Although I like the idea, additional NPCs aren't really that much of a bonus in my book, not in this case. I'd much rather have that energy spent making all the existing allies better - more consistent personalities, more defined personalities, more numerous and more evenly spread banters, and more NPC rivalry/friendships (Jan and Minsc, Aerie and Minsc, Korgan and Aerie, Korgan and Mazzy, Mazzy and Valygar...). We've got so many more characters already than we can feasibly use in three full games. If you're going to remake them, I'd rather see more quality than more quantity.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-13, 11:50 AM

This is all BG2, anyway. It will take a while to come up.

More NPCs in BG1... I dunno, we have enough. They just need to be more fleshed out.

Calemyr

2012-07-13, 01:11 PM

This is all BG2, anyway. It will take a while to come up.

More NPCs in BG1... I dunno, we have enough. They just need to be more fleshed out.

Very true. All my complaints about BG2 are doubly true for BG. If they're doing the trilogy approach (BG1, BG2, and ToB in one continuous game), I hope they use the BG1NPC mod for inspiration for the BG1 companions - especially Dynaheir, who, as I already said, was my LI of choice in BG1.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-13, 02:34 PM

If they're doing the trilogy approach (BG1, BG2, and ToB in one continuous game), I hope they use the BG1NPC mod for inspiration for the BG1 companions - especially Dynaheir, who, as I already said, was my LI of choice in BG1.

They're officially not doing that.

Calemyr

2012-07-13, 02:54 PM

They're officially not doing that.

Well hey bloody ho. A bit of actual official news? I've been waiting for the vaguest hint of that. Thanks. So this is just the original BG? Why were they talking about doing a BG3 next, then?

Morty

2012-07-13, 02:54 PM

All the information as to what the Enchanced Edition is actually going to be has been rather vague, to put it mildly.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-13, 03:03 PM

Well hey bloody ho. A bit of actual official news? I've been waiting for the vaguest hint of that. Thanks. So this is just the original BG? Why were they talking about doing a BG3 next, then?

They'll release BG Enhanced Edition first. Then, after the game is released, they'll begin working on BG2 Enhanced Edition. They have officially said that though they want to work in BG3, they have no actual plans towards doing so at the moment.

Calemyr

2012-07-13, 03:26 PM

They'll release BG Enhanced Edition first. Then, after the game is released, they'll begin working on BG2 Enhanced Edition. They have officially said that though they want to work in BG3, they have no actual plans towards doing so at the moment.

Where is that? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just really like to find where they've officially written any details at all.

That said, I'm a little bummed. BG1 isn't all that great a game on its own. They'd have to really work at it to make it shine as such. But it was absolutely brilliant as part of the Trilogy.

Also, why did they use Irenicus's lines for their initial teasers? What's the point if it's going to be another X months/years until we see the scarred elf in all his hammy glory?

mangosta71

2012-07-13, 04:13 PM

Well, I didn't keep Yoshimo in most of my playthroughs. In the one where I did keep him until the Spellhold, I was playing an evil bastard and I filled his spot with Sarevok.
How did you fill Yoshi's spot with a character that doesn't appear until ToB? :smallconfused:

If Yoshimo is in your party when you go to Spellhold, you have two options:
1) remain a man short until after you finish the Underdark
2) bring Imoen back into the group

Morty

2012-07-13, 04:19 PM

The first option is what I did. I finished BG2 with a 5-person party. I kind of assumed it went without saying.

Cespenar

2012-07-14, 12:48 AM

Shouldn't Imoen, like, canonically be in the group? She is almost as important to the plot as you are.

Khosan

2012-07-14, 01:18 AM

Shouldn't Imoen, like, canonically be in the group? She is almost as important to the plot as you are.

From what I've heard, Imoen was supposed to die in Spellhold but, in playtesting, a lot of people were upset about that. So she ended up living on. Got a little role in ToB.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-14, 01:21 AM

Where is that? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just really like to find where they've officially written any details at all.

That said, I'm a little bummed. BG1 isn't all that great a game on its own. They'd have to really work at it to make it shine as such. But it was absolutely brilliant as part of the Trilogy.

Also, why did they use Irenicus's lines for their initial teasers? What's the point if it's going to be another X months/years until we see the scarred elf in all his hammy glory?

I found it in information scattered across plenty of articles months ago. I googled what I could find and found a few (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/27/baldur-39-s-gate-enhanced-edition-to-cost-less-than-10-enhanced-bg-ii-coming.aspx) still (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/15/baldurs-gate-2-enhanced-edition-also-in-the-works-plus-bonus/)around (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/15/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition-announced-coming-this-summer/).

Morty

2012-07-14, 04:21 AM

From what I've heard, Imoen was supposed to die in Spellhold but, in playtesting, a lot of people were upset about that. So she ended up living on. Got a little role in ToB.

Which is a little funny, since from wht I've heard, she ended up as a recruitable NPC in BG1 for pretty much the same reason - the playtesters complained that you don't get a non-evil Thief until later in the game, forcing you to stick with Montaron for too long.

Kish

2012-07-14, 06:10 AM

Original plans aside, in the actual plot as it turned out, Imoen is the most important party-joinable character.

Jeivar

2012-07-14, 07:27 AM

Original plans aside, in the actual plot as it turned out, Imoen is the most important party-joinable character.

And one of my favorites, so I'm glad things worked out as they did.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-14, 08:39 AM

Yeah, Imoen is awesome.
Hope they use their BG2 picture in BG EE.

Calemyr

2012-07-14, 04:54 PM

Yeah, Imoen is one of the great jokes on story-tellers. The original game had Montaron as the only thief for the first quarter/third of the game, until you find Coran. So they threw together another thief using an unused voiceset and tossed her in, with no time left to add any banter or relationships.

Then they were going to kill her off at Spellhold, which really makes since given the condition you find her in. But that raised such a stir that they let you keep her. Again, the decision was made too late to give her many interjections or banters.

Then ToB came around and they'd already gotten the message. Imoen not only didn't almost get killed, she was allowed to go through the maturation the main charcter did in BG, and given banters galore to make up for lost time. Unfortunately, a malformed trigger kept most of them from ever firing, still turning her into an anti-social mute.

It's hard to imagine playing without her, really. Not only is she one of the major focuses of SoA, not only is she practically all the thief you need, plus a handy mage to boot, she's adds a sense of sweetness and belonging that none of the other characters really manage and makes the game feel like more than just another string of bloody fights with an avatar of ham manipulating you from the shadows. I can play without Minsc (though it's really hard to do so), I can leave Jaheira in the dust, but I can not drop Imoen. Simple as that.

Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.

Winthur

2012-07-14, 05:31 PM

Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.

...Aw damn, I just realized Polish Viconia (and Keldorn if the Enhanced Edition will be BG2 too) won't be re-recorded if this edition gets localized. :smallfrown:

(And if they are... jimmies will be rustled)

Mx.Silver

2012-07-14, 05:38 PM

Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.

IIRC they're keeping most/all of the old dialogue as-is, and there has been some mention of getting some of old gang back to record some new lines. I suspect most new stuff will be from whatever new NPCs they add though.
I sincerely doubt there will be any major recasting going on, as I doubt it would achieve anything save irritating the fans.

Morty

2012-07-14, 05:40 PM

...Aw damn, I just realized Polish Viconia (and Keldorn if the Enhanced Edition will be BG2 too) won't be re-recorded if this edition gets localized. :smallfrown:

(And if they are... jimmies will be rustled)

Irenicus won't be re-recorded either. His voice actor passed away too. Still, I doubt this edition will be localized anyway.

Jeivar

2012-07-14, 06:11 PM

string of bloody fights with an avatar of ham manipulating you from the shadows.

This is my favorite line of the week. :smallsmile:

IIRC they're keeping most/all of the old dialogue as-is, and there has been some mention of getting some of old gang back to record some new lines. I suspect most new stuff will be from whatever new NPCs they add though.
I sincerely doubt there will be any major recasting going on, as I doubt it would achieve anything save irritating the fans.

Hmm. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give Imoen more lines and plot participation. And maybe foreshadow her status as a Bhaalspawn.
And yeah, if they give any of the established/popular NPC's new voices it is going to dissatisfy many of the old fans this project is meant for. I too doubt they'll do it. Minsc and Jaheira are hard to replace.

Khosan

2012-07-14, 08:51 PM

Irenicus won't be re-recorded either. His voice actor passed away too. Still, I doubt this edition will be localized anyway.

David Warner? I'm pretty sure he's still alive. So's Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Warner_%28actor%29).

EDIT: Or did you mean the Polish Irenicus? In which case I haven't the slightest.

Morty

2012-07-15, 06:06 AM

I did mean the Polish Irenicus, yes. His voice actor died last year. I admit that I think he did a better job than David Warner, but that might be just because I'm used to the Polish actor.

Avaris

2012-07-15, 06:14 AM

See, this is an advantage of older games like BG: a lot of the dialogue wasn't voiced in the first place! As awesome as it would be to have more lines spoken by the characters, it's entirely possible to give existing characters more interactions by just writing more dialogue...

Winthur

2012-07-15, 05:53 PM

I did mean the Polish Irenicus, yes. His voice actor died last year. I admit that I think he did a better job than David Warner, but that might be just because I'm used to the Polish actor.

Hey, why is Irenicus reciting the invocation O.o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn-qxMkiZ_4) - me a few years ago in Polish class.

hobbitkniver

2012-07-17, 10:03 AM

Muz

2012-07-18, 02:38 PM

So has any news been presented? At this rate it doesn't seem likely it will be released this summer. I haven't looked into it since the game was announced and all the stuff on their website is fairly old.

Check out the first tweet from July 12th: https://twitter.com/trentoster. He claims end of summer.

Also, there's now a forum on the official site, though you can't view it without signing up.

hobbitkniver

2012-07-19, 09:40 AM

Check out the first tweet from July 12th: https://twitter.com/trentoster. He claims end of summer.

Also, there's now a forum on the official site, though you can't view it without signing up.

Thats cool, at least it shows progress. Thanks for the info.

Muz

2012-07-24, 02:32 PM

And here's a link to a post on their forum of things that CAN'T be done for the EE:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1588/bgee-please-read-list-of-things-that-cant-be-done#latest

Johnny Blade

2012-07-24, 04:09 PM

There will be no new animations in BG:EE, so it is no use to ask for them.
I don't get why they can't just use fan-created animations for player characters.
I mean, ever tried rolling up a female gnome illusionist only to see a bald, bearded and overall suspiciously male game world avatar right after going through your list of spell picks and all?
And there is a mod to fix that issue; 1 pixel productions. So it probably wouldn't cost them much, although working out the legal stuff involved here could possibly take some time. (I personally have no idea who holds what rights here, but I can say that if they put up a kickstarter like "Because of [reasons] we need x money to put this in, and want to give the modder who did all this work y money, so give us x+y money please." I would kickstart this thing to the sky.)

EDIT: Actually, I should have maybe looked around that forum for a bit before running my mouth. I quite possibly would have found this (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/485/to-the-modders) within like 5 minutes, as I did just now:

developers are currently working with fixpackers to integrate bug fixes with their consent (see the Bugs section of the forum). They are also supposedly in touch with Erephine to integrate 1PP into BG:EE if legal issues can be solved to an extent that is satisfactory for both parties. I'm sure the devs will gladly cooperate with modders as soon as time allows (they're currently quite busy with bug fixing) :-)

Anyway...

3. Adding new encounters to the old maps

-possible
This could be a good thing for BG1. Exploring the world is fun and all, but if there were small questlines linking some of the out-of-the-way wilderness areas together a bit better, the game wouldn't exactly suffer.

Muz

2012-07-25, 06:22 PM

hobbitkniver

2012-07-25, 07:16 PM

Apparently we'll get an announcement about the official release date and price in just under 20 hours (at the time of my posting). There's a countdown clock on the main site (http://www.baldursgate.com).

:smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure if my computer isn't loading it or something, but there's no clock on the page you linked.

Edit: It was my computer. I was running it in *Gasp* Internet Explorer and it worked when I switched.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-26, 12:25 AM

Did you guys notice the new portraits in the background? There is a guy with scars on his face and a girl with a staff.

elizasteave

2012-07-26, 01:40 AM

arguskos

2012-07-26, 01:47 AM

What are the updates guys ? I guess the duration of 20 hours is about to get over as of now. So any updates regarding the release dates or the cost of the game ? I am also waiting patiently for the this one to happen soon.
...there's twelve hours on the clock still? Gonna be awhile yet. Check back at 3 PM on Thursday, EST.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-26, 03:34 AM

Just noticed there are actually three new portraits: scarred guy, blonde chick and a half-orc.
The blonde chick is apparently supposed to be Jaheira, since Jaheira's portrait disappeared.

hobbitkniver

2012-07-26, 09:55 AM

Just noticed there are actually three new portraits: scarred guy, blonde chick and a half-orc.
The blonde chick is apparently supposed to be Jaheira, since Jaheira's portrait disappeared.

I'd feel kind of ripped off if they didn't at least add a few extra portraits. I'm sure they're either replacing old ones or adding more to select from. I also hope they add more voices as there was never enough in BG1.

Edit: There's about four hours left.

Muz

2012-07-26, 10:01 AM

While we're waiting:

Casting for the (exceedingly hypothetical) movie: Christopher Judge, circa 1998, as Minsc.

Discuss. :smallwink:

Calemyr

2012-07-26, 10:47 AM

While we're waiting:

Casting for the (exceedingly hypothetical) movie: Christopher Judge, circa 1998, as Minsc.

Discuss. :smallwink:

Teal'c from Stargate SG1? Granted he's not a perfect match for the husky Ruskie, but personality-wise? Pretty darn perfect. Never seen a goof-ball as enjoyable as that guy in the behind-the-scenes extras.

The question is, what type of character would you want for the MC (I've always referred to the MC as the Scion, because there's an awful lot of Bhaalspawn, but only one who inherits the responsibility to sort out the whole mess).

What type of MC would you want?
My personal favorite? A smart guy with a gift for snark, preferably a rogue or fighter/rogue rather than a mage. A guile hero.

Winthur

2012-07-26, 11:07 AM

While we're waiting:

Casting for the (exceedingly hypothetical) movie: Christopher Judge, circa 1998, as Minsc.

Discuss. :smallwink:

Starring Charlie Sheen as Anomen.

Muz

2012-07-26, 11:19 AM

Teal'c from Stargate SG1? Granted he's not a perfect match for the husky Ruskie, but personality-wise? Pretty darn perfect. Never seen a goof-ball as enjoyable as that guy in the behind-the-scenes extras.

My thinking exactly. I can so very easily see him yelling, with wide-eyed glee, "BUTT-KICKING! FOR GOODNESS!!!" Plus, we know he looks good bald with a head tattoo.

Starring Charlie Sheen as Anomen.

Great, now you broke my brain. :smallbiggrin:

As someone else I know pointed out, Drew Barrymore is pretty much a given for Nalia. Claudia Black as Jaheira?

As for the MC, charming rogues are overdone, IMO. Some manner of conflicted fighter-priest?

hobbitkniver

2012-07-26, 12:46 PM

What type of MC would you want?
My personal favorite? A smart guy with a gift for snark, preferably a rogue or fighter/rogue rather than a mage. A guile hero.

Probably a human fighter or something else with a strong hint of bland would be best.

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-26, 02:23 PM

So, the wait is over - and they did add a bit of stuff:

New Adventure: The Black Pits
"Rouse yourselves, you lice-laden layabouts. Stand and salute your new master, Baeloth the Entertainer!"

Across the realms, individuals of great power and prestige receive a scroll via magical means. Unfurling it, they discover that they have been selected as one of the very few to enjoy the finest forms of entertainment in all creation...

Come one, come all! Baeloth the Entertainer cordially invites you to the greatest spectacle the realms have to offer - mortal pitted against mortal in a desperate bid to survive! Thrilling combat, scintillating magic, and the grim spectre of death lurk above this, the greatest of all shows! All this and more can be enjoyed within... THE BLACK PITS!

Deep within the Underdark where few dare to tread, the mad drow Baeloth has used his extensive mastery of magic to force a duergar colony into creating an entertainment complex of his own design. He has invited guests from across the realms, from Maztica to Menzoberranzan, and they will readily attend - Baeloth is known to be an excellent showman.

The Black Pits is one of the enhancements that make up Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition that allows you to create a full party and battle through fifteen hellish battles in a desperate bid to escape. Difficult challenges, unique battles, and a bizarre cast of characters await you within the Underdark!

• A stand-alone adventure set deep within the Underdark
• Fifteen levels of arena-style combat challenges
• Full control and customization of up to six party members
• Over 6 hours of additional gameplay
The Black Pits are your new home... enjoy your stay while you can!

http://baldursgate.com/images/blackpits/screenshot01.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/blackpits/screenshot02.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/blackpits/screenshot03.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/blackpits/screenshot04.jpg

New Character: Rasaad yn Bashir

http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/RasaadPortrait.jpg
"In the face of lies, we offer truth. In the face of hatred, we offer compassion."

For a young man, Rasaad yn Bashir radiates an uncommonly mature aura of calm and wisdom. After a disastrous mission to a monastery in Athkatla, he now wanders the Sword Coast in search of enlightenment.

Orphaned on the streets of Calimport, Rasaad and his brother, Gamaz, barely survived by begging and theft. Caught in the act by a monk of the Order of the Sun Soul, the boys received not punishment but their first instruction. Soon the brothers excelled in the physical, mental, and spiritual training of the monastery devoted to Selûne, goddess of the moon.

In the aftermath of his brother's death, Rasaad has left his order to seek his own solace. If he can also find opportunities to reflect his inner light on those in need, he is eager to do so.

Rasaad is a Cali****e Monk demonstrating his monastic arts to the people of Nashkel. His quest ultimately leads into the highest reaches of the Cloud Peaks, where he must face an unexpected nemesis. Add him to your Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition experience to unleash the Monk's extraordinary power.

Rasaad adds the following Enhancements to Baldur's Gate:

• The Monk Rasaad yn Bashir, a new NPC to join your party
• A new playable adventure
• New area: the Cloud Peaks
Rasaad's adventure through the never seen before Cloud Peaks adds up to four hours of additional gameplay.
http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot01.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot02.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot03.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot04.jpg

Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition Features
Enhanced Interface
Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition features an updated and improved interface that has native support for high resolution and widescreen displays. The iPad and Android Tablet versions both contain platform specific interface enhancements.

Improved Multiplayer
Online multiplayer has been upgraded to include matchmaking functionality, and games can be played across multiple platforms. Adventurers on iPad, Mac, PC and Android Tablets can all play Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition together.

Core Game Improvements
The Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate has been given an extensive overhaul. The original source code has been cleaned up and improved, sped up, and now has support for modern platforms. Over 400 issues from the original game have been found and fixed.

Baldur's Gate 2 Features
All of the additions and improvements from Baldur's Gate 2: The Shadows of Amn have been brought to Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition. Now you can use class kits, new subraces and classes that were previously unavailable.

New Cinematics
All of the Baldur's Gate cinematics have been replaced with beautifully hand painted animated cinematics, directed by Nat Jones.

Ongoing Support
Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition will continue to receive improvements after release, along with continued support for the vibrant mod community that has helped it remain so popular for so l

New Character: Neera the Wild Mage

http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/NeeraPortrait.jpg
"Casting wild magic is like playing a flute by ear. In magical terms, I can play a pretty mean tune, but when I miss a note the flute shoots fire at everyone."

After a disastrous wild surge maimed her fellow students, Neera fled her home to wander the High Forest. Even there, her capricious spells threatened the highly flammable woods, forcing the mighty treant Turlang to banish Neera from his domain. On the open road, Neera enjoyed only fleeting companionship before the Red Wizards caught up with her.

Neera's whimsical humor clashes with the guilt she still harbors over the harm she has inadvertently caused in past. She hopes to find a way to control her wild magic, even as she delights in the surprises that could come with every spell.

Fleeing the Red Wizards and seeking a better understanding of her own powers, Neera hopes for friends who can help her survive both her hunters and her own magic.

Neera is a half-elf wild mage slowly coming to terms with her enormous magical potential. Add her to your Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition experience and ignite your wild side.

Neera adds the following Enhancements to Baldur's Gate:

• The Wild Mage Neera, a new NPC to join your party
• An engaging romantic adventure
• Up to four hours of additional gameplay
• New area: a secluded hideaway northeast of Durlag's Tower
This half-elf wild mage finds both delight and terror in her capricious magic while fleeing both her past mistakes and the merciless Red Wizards of Thay.
http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot01.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot02.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot03.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot04.jpg

New Character: Dorn Il-Khan

http://baldursgate.com/images/dorn/DornPortrait.jpg
"Do not annoy me with such simplistic notions of morality."

Born in the Spine of the World, Dorn fled to Luskan with his human mother when a rival tribe annihilated his father's savage people. In that northern city, Dorn's ruthless strength soon won him a deadly reputation and the attentions of a band of mercenaries whose wickedness exceeded even Dorn's. Imprisoned for the crimes of the entire group, Dorn made a fiendish bargain granting him even greater power and the promise of revenge.

A Blackguard of few words, Dorn is only too happy to ally himself with a child of Bhaal and cut a bloody swath across the Sword Coast with his black greatsword, as long as that path continues to lead him to the traitors he has sworn to destroy.

Dorn is a half-orc Blackguard whose otherworldly patron grants him terrible powers in the form of his black sword and unholy spells. Add him to your Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition and inflict evil to the last corpse.

Dorn adds the following Enhancments to Baldur's Gate:

• The Blackguard Dorn II-Khan, a new NPC to join your party
• Up to four hours of additional gameplay
• The Blackguard kit to create your own champion of evil
Betrayed by his former companions, the half-orc Dorn Il-Khan lusts for revenge and glory in equal measure.
http://baldursgate.com/images/dorn/screenshot01.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/dorn/screenshot02.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/dorn/screenshot03.jpg
http://baldursgate.com/images/dorn/screenshot04.jpg

Muz

2012-07-26, 02:33 PM

I'd buy it for pure simple fact that there's an NPC wild mage. :smallbiggrin:

And Neera and Il-Khan will both be on the PC:
http://www.baldursgate.com/windows.en.html

Release date is September 18th. Now we play the waiting game...

"...Aww, the waiting game sucks! Let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos!"

Morty

2012-07-26, 02:43 PM

I was expecting a sorcerer and/or a barbarian NPC after the monk. Still, they look pretty decent. It remains to be seen if they'll actually be good.

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-26, 02:52 PM

And Neera and Il-Khan will both be on the PC:
Somehow I missed that part :smallredface:

I was expecting a sorcerer and/or a barbarian NPC after the monk. Still, they look pretty decent. It remains to be seen if they'll actually be good.
I'm happy they didn't do it - a wild mage is more interesting than a sorcerer, and the blackguard might be interesting - it depends on the kit's quality. Though we know he won't be good ;)

Calemyr

2012-07-26, 02:58 PM

Okay, we've got Android support, BG2 kits, subraces, one (free?) new character and two DLC ones, a lot of engine improvements... Yeah, "Enhanced Edition" works...

Looks promising.

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-26, 03:07 PM

Okay, we've got Android support, BG2 kits, subraces, one (free?) new character and two DLC ones, a lot of engine improvements... Yeah, "Enhanced Edition" works...
According to the link posted by Muz the PC gets all the chars for free (and who cares about Android? :smalltongue:) Plus some smaller things like new PC voice sets and such.

I guess I will have some problems getting adjusted to the EE - mostly getting accustomed to the voice actors (I'm used to the Polish version - both games were purest gems in this regard).

Also, wallpapers
http://www.baldursgate.com/images/bg/candlekeep.jpg
http://www.baldursgate.com/images/bg/blackpits.jpg
http://www.baldursgate.com/images/bg/rasaad.jpg
http://www.baldursgate.com/images/bg/neera.jpg
http://www.baldursgate.com/images/bg/dorn.jpg

Morty

2012-07-26, 03:10 PM

I guess I will have some problems getting adjusted to the EE - mostly getting accustomed to the voice actors (I'm used to the Polish version - both games were purest gems in this regard).

Baldur's Gate 2 certainly was, but Baldur's Gate 1 had too many characters with inexplicable and thick Ukrainian/Russian accents. :smalltongue:

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-26, 03:11 PM

Baldur's Gate 2 certainly was, but Baldur's Gate 1 had too many characters with inexplicable and thick Ukrainian/Russian accents. :smalltongue:
Well, it is possible that time (and BG2) had clouded my memory of the first game, so I won't argue ;)

Calemyr

2012-07-26, 03:16 PM

(and who cares about Android? :smalltongue:)

As an owner of a Kindle Fire, I am absolutely jazzed at the thought of BG on the move. Well worth buying the game three times (Original, PC-EE, Android-EE) in my book.

Johnny Blade

2012-07-26, 05:56 PM

As an owner of a Kindle Fire, I am absolutely jazzed at the thought of BG on the move. Well worth buying the game three times (Original, PC-EE, Android-EE) in my book.
Man, how often I've bought these games...I think I've got the German version three times, plus the English version of course. A lot of this has to do with my treatment of the poor discs and complete ignorance of such wonders as ISO-ing your stuff.

And now once more, functioning multiplayer alone makes it worth it. By the way, if anyone's up for some misadventures across the Sword Coast when it comes out, we could maybe do that. It'll be released right when I should by all means have a lot of free time for at least a few weeks, so if anyone's interested, I sure am.

As for the new content, I'm really quite interested in the NPCs. More fighter types are nice, given that it's BG1, although I question the viability of monks in BG1 unless the class is changed (no idea if they are even allowed to do that) or there are some items to help them out (expecting this).
Wild Mage is cool, too. I mean, the only non-evil mages are part of an NPC pair or, well, Xan, which I could never stomach for long. I've used Xzar for more than one good-aligned playthrough, and not only because I like what the NPC Project made of him and Monty.
Plus, wild magic. Can't wait to accidentally let a demon loose in the bandit camp or something like that. :smallsmile:

Personality-wise, all three sound like they could be very nice additions if done right or very stupid if not. I guess I'm cautiously optimistic?

That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.

Plus, there are some other new areas, so I'm not really complaining. Still, I would have hoped for something different.

Calemyr

2012-07-26, 06:39 PM

That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.

Plus, there are some other new areas, so I'm not really complaining. Still, I would have hoped for something different.

Actually, the way the description was written, it sounded like it's an alternate mode, not a simple side quest. It sounded rather like one of those tacked-on multi-player modes, for people who want to enjoy the engine without the plot. The focus on being able to create an entire part of custom characters is my primary reason for thinking so.

hobbitkniver

2012-07-26, 06:53 PM

arguskos

2012-07-26, 06:54 PM

And now once more, functioning multiplayer alone makes it worth it. By the way, if anyone's up for some misadventures across the Sword Coast when it comes out, we could maybe do that. It'll be released right when I should by all means have a lot of free time for at least a few weeks, so if anyone's interested, I sure am.
YES I MEAN YES GOOD LORD

As for the new content, I'm really quite interested in the NPCs. More fighter types are nice, given that it's BG1, although I question the viability of monks in BG1 unless the class is changed (no idea if they are even allowed to do that) or there are some items to help them out (expecting this).
Wild Mage is cool, too. I mean, the only non-evil mages are part of an NPC pair or, well, Xan, which I could never stomach for long. I've used Xzar for more than one good-aligned playthrough, and not only because I like what the NPC Project made of him and Monty.
Plus, wild magic. Can't wait to accidentally let a demon loose in the bandit camp or something like that. :smallsmile:
I'm excited for the Wild Mage and the Monk, but honestly, a Blackguard? :smallyuk:

Not excited at *all* for that one.

That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.

Plus, there are some other new areas, so I'm not really complaining. Still, I would have hoped for something different.
Eh, sounds like it'll be a good time for just smashing some heads, which I'm not against from time to time. I do hope that you can visit it with your normal party and that your NPCs have opinions about it. If not, well, eh. I'll play it a few times anyhow. Wonder if you can solo it? :smallbiggrin:

Johnny Blade

2012-07-26, 06:56 PM

Actually, the way the description was written, it sounded like it's an alternate mode, not a simple side quest. It sounded rather like one of those tacked-on multi-player modes, for people who want to enjoy the engine without the plot. The focus on being able to create an entire part of custom characters is my primary reason for thinking so.You're right, I think.

I didn't pay much attention to the details, I guess.
After re-reading the description and especially looking at the screenshots, it might even allow PvP? That could be kind of nice. Although I would expect that to be announced somewhere.

Anyway, still not exactly the first thing on my wish list, but maybe a more interesting addition than I first thought.

YES I MEAN YES GOOD LORD

I'm excited for the Wild Mage and the Monk, but honestly, a Blackguard? :smallyuk:

Not excited at *all* for that one.
Well, he's the one I care for the least, and, really, there already are two very usable evil melee characters. But I don't particularly mind having a Blackguard. Kagain and Shar-Teel are fairly mundane characters, so it's a change of pace, which isn't bad in my book.
Going off the new guys' biographies, I'm definitely looking forward to the monk the most, reservations about the class' strength or not.
The Wild Mage girl, well, she could be a really nice character if they don't play up her tragic past and need to get her life fixed by Charname's love. (As we all know, Sexual Healing on endless repeat is the true BG2 soundtrack, and I very much don't need to see that in BG1. Not that I wouldn't like some shadows in a character's past, but stiff upper lip, please.)

Eh, sounds like it'll be a good time for just smashing some heads, which I'm not against from time to time. I do hope that you can visit it with your normal party and that your NPCs have opinions about it. If not, well, eh. I'll play it a few times anyhow.
Sure, I'll give it a spin. When I said it looks lame to me I was mainly referring to the story blurb. I mean, really, if it's such a special place, why not give it, I don't know, a Planescape-like background, for example. There's enough interplanar traveling going on in the series and it would (probably) allow for more varied arenas. But no, it's the Underdark. Again.
I mean, I'll survive, but it still seems a bit uninspired.

Also, already looking forward to some multiplayer sessions, then.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-26, 09:58 PM

OK, now I only need a time machine so I can get to September 18th

Calemyr

2012-07-26, 10:19 PM

So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?

Starbuck_II

2012-07-26, 11:18 PM

I'm excited for the Wild Mage and the Monk, but honestly, a Blackguard? :smallyuk:

Agreed, I'd perfer a Githyanki Anti-Paladin. Why hasn't there ben a mod for that yet?

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-26, 11:28 PM

So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?

The three new guys, of course.
I need to know if the old NPCs will have kits of their own before I make choices, though.
Probably playing an elf Stalker as the protagonist.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-26, 11:31 PM

Daremonai

2012-07-27, 02:20 AM

If they implement dual-classing properly in EE, going Stalker >> Wizard would be tempting. It's the route I always wanted Valygar to take in BG2 (if his stats and the engine allowed it)

Morty

2012-07-27, 02:43 AM

I might be interested in some multiplayer. And I'll definetly start a new singleplayer campaign if I buy the Enchanced Edition... possibly with that Lawful Evil/Lawful Neutral Fighter I've been planning.

bluntpencil

2012-07-27, 02:58 AM

Has nobody noticed that the Blackguard has the surname 'Il-Khan'?

The Bhaalspawn ruling Saradush in Throne of Bhaal's surname is also Il-Khan, and is also a Half-Orc. I'm predicting family. He may be a Bhaalspawn himself (unlikely), or the brother of one.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-27, 03:40 AM

If they implement dual-classing properly in EE, going Stalker >> Wizard would be tempting. It's the route I always wanted Valygar to take in BG2 (if his stats and the engine allowed it)

Isn't that a bit out of character for Valygar?

Has nobody noticed that the Blackguard has the surname 'Il-Khan'?

The Bhaalspawn ruling Saradush in Throne of Bhaal's surname is also Il-Khan, and is also a Half-Orc. I'm predicting family. He may be a Bhaalspawn himself (unlikely), or the brother of one.
I thought about this, but I don't know if they are going to make any connections to Gromnir, since he is based on a real person and all.

Daremonai

2012-07-27, 04:12 AM

Isn't that a bit out of character for Valygar?
.

Not after his questline, necessarily. Before then, it would be totally out of character.

dianakingston

2012-07-27, 05:33 AM

So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?

An excuse to get my Fighting Furies back together? Yes please! :)

The first time I played BG1, I used an evil female PC with Jaheira, Shar-Teel, Imoen, Viconia and Edwin-with-a-Girdle-of-Gender. It was tremendous fun, especially since I was playing blind and had no idea that most of my team would be coming back in the second game. :)

But I might mix things up a bit with the Enhanced Edition. The creators have confirmed that Dorn can be romanced, and that's something I didn't get to do the first time around (because seriously, Anomen? NO.) So I could swap Shar-Teel out for him and have him be the token male in the group. Neera is another "maybe" depending on her alignment (Imoen's already my Token Bleeding Heart) and whether she can outperform Edwin. Doubt I'd have much use for Rasaad, though...

I wonder whether these NPCs will also be recurring in BG2:EE? Dorn having a connection to Gromnir doesn't make much sense unless you can actually take him to Saradush during ToB...

Johnny Blade

2012-07-27, 06:19 AM

So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
I'll definitely take Rasaad and Neera along with me.

Imoen will be there and do her usual dual-class routine or be turned into a bard, so the magic department is pretty much full, which restricts further options somewhat (no Minsc/Dynaheir, no Xzar/Monty).

But apart from that, I'll make up my mind about Charname and the rest of the party when I see the new kits and if some NPCs got kits in EE.
(EDIT: Or rather, if there are nice kits that fit some of the old NPCs. I assume editing this with Near Infinity will still be possible, although not being able to just make little changes like that with Shadow Keeper will feel odd.)

Ho annoying I find Dorn's high-rep feedback lines might play a role concerning his place in the group, too.

Morty

2012-07-27, 06:23 AM

dianakingston

2012-07-27, 06:36 AM

Speaking of reputation, I would welcome it if it was easier to keep a neutral or low reputation. In BG2 at least, you need to flat-out ignore some quests and even then it's hard if you don't bring Viconia along. But I doubt it'll happen - it's the kind of feature they can't implement, I think.

Actually, that was always something I appreciated about the BG series: there's no question that an evil/low reputation playthrough is more difficult (because you get less XP and can't use weapons like Carsomyr or Drizzt's +5 scimitar), but that was balanced by the fact that evil NPCs like Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are the best of their respective classes. So it's a different kind of challenge. :)

Johnny Blade

2012-07-27, 06:37 AM

Kivan isn't evil, though. :smalltongue:

Speaking of reputation, I would welcome it if it was easier to keep a neutral or low reputation. In BG2 at least, you need to flat-out ignore some quests and even then it's hard if you don't bring Viconia along. But I doubt it'll happen - it's the kind of feature they can't implement, I think.
Well, there are some places that could give you a rep hit in BG1 that don't currently do so.
Picking a fight with those Amnian nobles you run into somewhere in the southern areas might not be fondly regarded when everyone's concerned about an impending war, assuming someone sees it.
Screwing over that guy in Nashkel who thinks you're Greywolf coming to collect a bounty could also lower reputation.
Or working with Ramazith in Baldur's Gate (I think that might do it already, actually), stuff like that.

Of course, that won't solve the issue of there simply not being a lot of evil quests and even neutral behavior leading you up to 20 reputation by the middle of the game, and I doubt that's high on their list of priorities, too.

Morty

2012-07-27, 06:40 AM

Actually, that was always something I appreciated about the BG series: there's no question that an evil/low reputation playthrough is more difficult (because you get less XP and can't use weapons like Carsomyr or Drizzt's +5 scimitar), but that was balanced by the fact that evil NPCs like Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are the best of their respective classes. So it's a different kind of challenge. :)

I'm not talking about it being difficult, I'm talking about it being hard or impossible to keep a non-positive reputation at all.

Well, there are some places that could give you a rep hit in BG1 that don't currently do so.
Picking a fight with those Amnian nobles you run into somewhere in the southern areas might not be fondly regarded when everyone's concerned about an impending war, assuming someone sees it.
Screwing over that guy in Nashkel who thinks you're Greywolf coming to collect a bounty could also lower reputation.
Or working with Ramazith in Baldur's Gate, stuff like that.

Of course, that won't solve the issue of there simply being not a lot of evil quests and even neutral behavior leading you up to 20 reputation by the middle of the game, and I doubt that's high on their list of priorities, too.

Probably not, yes. More opportunities to take a Rep hit wouldn't hurt, though. This way you could offset the gains you get left and right.

dianakingston

2012-07-27, 06:45 AM

I'm not talking about it being difficult, I'm talking about it being hard or impossible to keep a non-positive reputation at all.

I... honestly didn't have that problem? I mean, when you say "non-positive" I'm assuming you mean low enough to get the evil "Dream" powers but not enough for city guards to constantly attack you?

I do remember there was a mod that added bards to various taverns, and they worked like temple donations but in reverse: you pay them a sum of money and they spread tales of your evil reputation, causing it to drop two or three points at a time. Never had a reason to use it myself, though...

Jeivar

2012-07-27, 06:36 PM

So, does anyone now if these new NPC's will be carried over into the BG2:EE? Has there been any word on that?

Man, the crazy story purist in me badly wants to just pick the canon squad to go along with BG2's opening. But I also feel I kind of HAVE to try these new guysl

And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-27, 06:42 PM

So, does anyone now if these new NPC's will be carried over into the BG2:EE? Has there been any word on that?
Yes, on Twitter

Plan is to have the new characters continue into BG2EE

From the same source

Dorn is one pretty awesome tank.
All three characters are romanceable.
I think Rasaad will be a much better option than Anomen for female romance. Dorn too.

And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?
Why not? For all we know, the kit might have abilities working all the time, just "flavored" to be evil.

Sketch for one of the new areas (http://cf.shacknews.com/images/20120724/conceptcloudpeaks_22848.jpg)

dianakingston

2012-07-27, 06:47 PM

And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?

Because if your party is evil enough to accommodate a Blackguard in the first place, you're probably going to do things like fight Drizzt and Balthazar, and you can use all the help you can get. ;)

Avaris

2012-07-27, 06:54 PM

Calemyr

2012-07-27, 07:43 PM

Why not? For all we know, the kit might have abilities working all the time, just "flavored" to be evil.

Absolutely. It could easily be like the Assassin kit - very powerful, but only available to evil people. That's kinda how it works in BG2 anyway, all the best people you can recruit are evil. It's the fact that they're evil (and how that limits your play options) that balances out their advantages.

GloatingSwine

2012-07-27, 08:11 PM

Probably not, yes. More opportunities to take a Rep hit wouldn't hurt, though. This way you could offset the gains you get left and right.

An important thing to do here is to delink rep and store prices, having roleplaying options which are actively punished by gameplay mechanics is not a clever or useful design (and Bioware have never really gotten their heads around that, witness the inevitable lack of recognition of neutrality or, in fact, anything but absolute extremes on whatever spurious moral axis they're using today).

Seharvepernfan

2012-07-27, 11:31 PM

In BG2, turning into the Slayer lowers your rep by 2 each time.

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 04:21 AM

An important thing to do here is to delink rep and store prices, having roleplaying options which are actively punished by gameplay mechanics is not a clever or useful design (and Bioware have never really gotten their heads around that, witness the inevitable lack of recognition of neutrality or, in fact, anything but absolute extremes on whatever spurious moral axis they're using today).

On the contrary, it's both more of a challenge and more in line with what a low reputation actually means - for example, having an evil party requires you to be more economic with your equipment and gold, but it also means you'll spend a lot of time pickpocketing and stealing, which is exactly what an evil party would do anyway. :) Add to that the fact that you can sell stolen goods to black market buyers in BG2 and then steal them back, and it lines up perfectly with NE or CE roleplaying.

GloatingSwine

2012-07-28, 04:35 AM

On the contrary, it's both more of a challenge and more in line with what a low reputation actually means - for example, having an evil party requires you to be more economic with your equipment and gold, but it also means you'll spend a lot of time pickpocketing and stealing, which is exactly what an evil party would do anyway. :) Add to that the fact that you can sell stolen goods to black market buyers in BG2 and then steal them back, and it lines up perfectly with NE or CE roleplaying.

I dunno, something in the shopkeeper logic "Ah, this man is known to bite the heads off babies for smiling at him, I can get away with charging him extra!" doesn't work for me.

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 04:49 AM

I dunno, something in the shopkeeper logic "Ah, this man is known to bite the heads off babies for smiling at him, I can get away with charging him extra!" doesn't work for me.

I think it's more that you get a high reputation for helping people, so shopkeepers don't mind giving you items at a discount. At lower reputations (but not low enough that the Flaming Fist are constantly attacking you), they don't have any reason to do you any favors.

Besides which, if a shopkeeper is overcharging you, the Evil thing to do would be to steal what you need anyway. ;)

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-28, 05:47 AM

I think it's more that you get a high reputation for helping people, so shopkeepers don't mind giving you items at a discount. At lower reputations (but not low enough that the Flaming Fist are constantly attacking you), they don't have any reason to do you any favors.

Besides which, if a shopkeeper is overcharging you, the Evil thing to do would be to steal what you need anyway. ;)

Also, with low reputation, you might be paying them a bribe so they won't set the guards on you, a known criminal.

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 06:39 AM

Also, with low reputation, you might be paying them a bribe so they won't set the guards on you, a known criminal.

Ooh, that's good. :)

Morty

2012-07-28, 06:50 AM

An important thing to do here is to delink rep and store prices, having roleplaying options which are actively punished by gameplay mechanics is not a clever or useful design (and Bioware have never really gotten their heads around that, witness the inevitable lack of recognition of neutrality or, in fact, anything but absolute extremes on whatever spurious moral axis they're using today).

The fact that there hasn't been a BioWare game where not falling into moral extremes isn't punished is a topic for another discussion entirely, yes. There is, however, a mod that makes Neutral characters approve of neutral Reputation. The lines are spoken by the original voice actors, even.
While having to pay more when your rep is low is stupid and nonsensical, it didn't really bother me. You get a lot of money anyway and plenty of the best items are found. So it's not that much of a problem. So long as they let me have a low or neutral reputation without jumping through hoops or paying gold to modded-in bards.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-28, 07:17 AM

While having to pay more when your rep is low is stupid and nonsensical, (...)

I really don't think it is.

I think it's more that you get a high reputation for helping people, so shopkeepers don't mind giving you items at a discount. At lower reputations (but not low enough that the Flaming Fist are constantly attacking you), they don't have any reason to do you any favors.

Besides which, if a shopkeeper is overcharging you, the Evil thing to do would be to steal what you need anyway. ;)
This is the official version. IIRC, the manual even mentions it as 'the hero discount'. If that is not enough for you...

Also, with low reputation, you might be paying them a bribe so they won't set the guards on you, a known criminal.

Not liking something is one thing. Calling it stupid and nonsensical... that's a very different thing.

Morty

2012-07-28, 08:05 AM

I know this is the official reason. I just don't think it's a good one. I also think that if it's easier to be good than bad, someone got something backwards.

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 08:36 AM

I know this is the official reason. I just don't think it's a good one. I also think that if it's easier to be good than bad, someone got something backwards.

I don't know, genre conventions are always slanted against the villain anyway - succeeding as an evil protagonist in "Baldur's Gate" is more about tenacity than popularity. :)

Mx.Silver

2012-07-28, 09:51 AM

To be honest the reputation system just isn't very good anyway. Especially since there really isn't all that much of a moral choice system in place in the games.

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-28, 09:59 AM

I know this is the official reason. I just don't think it's a good one. I also think that if it's easier to be good than bad, someone got something backwards.

The game is encouraging you to be good. Why is that a bad thing? You can still be evil if you want to, with a small cost to pay for that. Most games don't even give you that choice.

hobbitkniver

2012-07-28, 10:26 AM

The game is encouraging you to be good. Why is that a bad thing? You can still be evil if you want to, with a small cost to pay for that. Most games don't even give you that choice.

I agree. I don't know wy people find it so weird that evil characters get treated differently in game. If you're a jerk, people won't like you as much as if you're a nice guy. Seems pretty simple to me, but I've never really had a great desire to play evil for the sake of being evil.

Spiryt

2012-07-28, 10:32 AM

I agree. I don't know wy people find it so weird that evil characters get treated differently in game. If you're a jerk, people won't like you as much as if you're a nice guy. Seems pretty simple to me, but I've never really had a great desire to play evil for the sake of being evil.

It's quite the contrary, I like playing moderately good characters, but it's pretty much given, easy and uninteresting most of the time, getting 'good' is easy and rewarding.

Should be some challenge and sacrifice instead...

Being evil powerful character should be quite easy - you take what you want, steal and lie without feeling guilt, manipulate and use people... For whatever gain you want. Preferably by politics, it's most efficient. :smallbiggrin:

Being "nice" or "jerk" doesn't really have much to do with being good or evil.

The game is encouraging you to be good. Why is that a bad thing? You can still be evil if you want to, with a small cost to pay for that. Most games don't even give you that choice.

Small cost would be more appropriate for being very good and selfless instead. Would feel much more natural.

Kish

2012-07-28, 10:37 AM

Absolutely. It could easily be like the Assassin kit - very powerful, but only available to evil people.
Contrary to persistent Internet rumors, the Assassin kit in BG2 has no kit-specific alignment restrictions.

(That is, you can't be Lawful Good because thieves can't; you can be any of the other eight alignments.)

Small cost would be more appropriate for being very good and selfless instead. Would feel much more natural.
This is actually in Baldur's Gate. People just don't realize it because it doesn't get a fanfare.

Several encounters--a group of Amnish adventurers, a self-proclaimed "legendary swordsman"--insult you but don't attack you. If you decide that insults are punishable by death (a distinctly evil decision, though one which doesn't impact your reputation) you get to loot them. If you don't you don't. There are multiple items you can only get that way; the Golden Girdle, the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. There are also multiple items you only get by breaking into houses and murdering the homeowners: one of the two Rings of Wizardry in the game, the Helmet of Glory...

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 10:47 AM

Well, the thing about BG's setup is that your character is motivated to participate in the story regardless of their alignment - if you're Good, their objective is to stop Sarevok, Irenicus and Melissan because they're a danger to the people of Faerun; if you're Evil, it's because every Bhaalspawn you kill puts you a step closer to godhood.

That's actually something I think BioWare does right: you can roleplay different characters with different motivations, and it holds together. In "Dragon Age", if you're a sociopathic blood mage who hates everyone, your actions in the game are entirely self-motivated because the darkspawn are a threat to you too, and you might as well throw an army at them rather than risk your own life, etc.

Spiryt

2012-07-28, 11:04 AM

Several encounters--a group of Amnish adventurers, a self-proclaimed "legendary swordsman"--insult you but don't attack you. If you decide that insults are punishable by death (a distinctly evil decision, though one which doesn't impact your reputation) you get to loot them. If you don't you don't. There are multiple items you can only get that way; the Golden Girdle, the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. There are also multiple items you only get by breaking into houses and murdering the homeowners: one of the two Rings of Wizardry in the game, the Helmet of Glory...

Certainly, BG has a bit of this (armor from White Dragon and Human Skin also comes to mind), that's why it's a great game, but it even greater amount of easiness towards good, much more experience from most quests, lower prices, generally longer quests instead of ones ending in 'they're dead, hur".

Generally most quests are some kind of dogoodery after all.

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-28, 11:13 AM

armor from White Dragon and Human Skin also comes to mind
IIRC, the White Dragon scales didn't require us to do anything (ie. they were in a treasure pile on the floor of a room in Watcher's Keep). Now, the Thieves Hood is a different beast...

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 03:40 PM

So, going back to the original question because I'm curious about this too:

Assuming you had a full party of six the last time you played BG1, which of the three new NPCs (Rasaad, Neera, Dorn il-Khan) are you most interested in recruiting, and who would you swap out in exchange?

Morty

2012-07-28, 03:44 PM

If I play the Lawful Evil Fighter I had a while back - in regular BG1, without BGT - I'll swap Shar-Teel for Dorn. The original crew consisted of the Bhaalspawn, Kagain, Shar-Teel, Safana, Viconia (with Branwen filling in until I met her) and Edwin.

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 03:57 PM

If I play the Lawful Evil Fighter I had a while back - in regular BG1, without BGT - I'll swap Shar-Teel for Dorn.

My sentiments exactly. :) (Well, Neutral Evil Sorceress, but that just means I get a romance too! :smallbiggrin:)

Shar-Teel is useful on the front lines with the right equipment, but she doesn't seem to do anything in the plot - even with the restored-content mod, she's really only relevant to a single scene in the entire game. And given that she doesn't appear in BG2, whereas Dorn and the others apparently will... I think it's safe to set her aside.

I'm confused about Neera, though - the manual says Wild Mages are basically random wizards; is that actually helpful in a serious fight as opposed to someone like Edwin or Dynaheir, who will at least cast the spell I tell them to cast?

Jeivar

2012-07-28, 04:40 PM

dianakingston

2012-07-28, 04:52 PM

I'm already wondering what class to pick for my PC. I've never played either game to any degree with a non-warrior, and I was wondering how that works out. I don't really relish the idea of playing someone who needs a good nights sleep after every fight in order to be useful, and I don't see how thieves are good for anything other than finding traps, opening locks and providing a bit of support in combat. But maybe I'm wrong.

I'd love to hear from people's experiences.

Well, you know that old saying about linear warriors and quadratic wizards? That absolutely applies here. :)

Mages start out in a very weak position, not just physically but in terms of spell selection. You'll spend most of your initial fights positioning NPCs between you and the enemy. But as you level up, your spells will increase in both quantity and variety, and by the end of it you'll basically be able to manipulate the outcome of any battle.

Mind you, that's just BG1. Once you start hitting the level 8-9 spells in BG2, you're pretty much unstoppable. With the right combination of debuffs and a lucky roll of the dice, you can kill dragons with a single spell, before your front-line fighters even have a chance to engage.

Mx.Silver

2012-07-28, 05:09 PM

Shar-Teel is useful on the front lines with the right equipment, but she doesn't seem to do anything in the plot - even with the restored-content mod, she's really only relevant to a single scene in the entire game.
In fairness, that's true of about half the NPCs in BG1. Possibly more.

I'm confused about Neera, though - the manual says Wild Mages are basically random wizards; is that actually helpful in a serious fight as opposed to someone like Edwin or Dynaheir, who will at least cast the spell I tell them to cast?

They're not completely random. Most of the time they cast spells with (IIRC) a 5% that a 'wild surge' occurs on casting, which is the random thing (which can be good, bad, or just weird). They also count as specialist mages (so gain +1 memorisation slot) without having to bar a school of magic. They have two unique spells which play off the surge mechanic, one of which can potentially let you cast higher level spells out of 1st level slots, assuming all goes well on the surge.

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-28, 05:36 PM

They're not completely random. Most of the time they cast spells with (IIRC) a 5% that a 'wild surge' occurs on casting, which is the random thing (which can be good, bad, or just weird). They also count as specialist mages (so gain +1 memorisation slot) without having to bar a school of magic. They have two unique spells which play off the surge mechanic, one of which can potentially let you cast higher level spells out of 1st level slots, assuming all goes well on the surge.
Technically, 3 spells (though two are variants of the same thing). And with Greater Chaos Shield the Reckless Dweomer tends to work in your favor - if not by casting a 9th level spell from a 1st level slot, it does it with the beneficial surge effects. Though there is the chance something will go wrong... Still, it simply is fun to play with a Wild Mage - even if it forces you to reload sometimes (ie. my Wild Mage had an unfortunate surge in the Copper Coronet which made everyone inside hostile).

Winthur

2012-07-28, 05:46 PM

Still, it simply is fun to play with a Wild Mage - even if it forces you to reload sometimes (ie. my Wild Mage had an unfortunate surge in the Copper Coronet which made everyone inside hostile).

Bah, real men don't reload their games when doing risky stuff. Save Melicamp, pickpocket, cast Wild Surge spells or use Jet and save right afterwards no matter what. :smalltongue: :smallamused: :smallwink:

Divayth Fyr

2012-07-28, 05:51 PM

Well, at that time I didn't consider casting a magic missile as risky stuff ;)

Jeivar

2012-07-28, 06:35 PM

Well, you know that old saying about linear warriors and quadratic wizards? That absolutely applies here. :)

Mages start out in a very weak position, not just physically but in terms of spell selection. You'll spend most of your initial fights positioning NPCs between you and the enemy. But as you level up, your spells will increase in both quantity and variety, and by the end of it you'll basically be able to manipulate the outcome of any battle.

Mind you, that's just BG1. Once you start hitting the level 8-9 spells in BG2, you're pretty much unstoppable. With the right combination of debuffs and a lucky roll of the dice, you can kill dragons with a single spell, before your front-line fighters even have a chance to engage.

Well, in BG2 I often had Aerie, Imoen AND Nalia in the group. And while Magic Missile, AoE and such was useful I found myself mostly using mages for special circumstances. It seemed like anything I badly needed paralyzed or weakened would inevitably make the saves, and anything lesser could be chopped up easily enough by Jaheira and my monstrous PC. So it doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about a spellcaster PC. I'm only even considering it for the sake of variety.

GloatingSwine

2012-07-28, 07:54 PM

Also, with low reputation, you might be paying them a bribe so they won't set the guards on you, a known criminal.

On the other hand what they should be doing is giving me a special "keeping all their teeth, limbs, eyeballs, and other appendages" discount.

GloatingSwine

2012-07-28, 07:56 PM

Well, in BG2 I often had Aerie, Imoen AND Nalia in the group. And while Magic Missile, AoE and such was useful I found myself mostly using mages for special circumstances. It seemed like anything I badly needed paralyzed or weakened would inevitably make the saves, and anything lesser could be chopped up easily enough by Jaheira and my monstrous PC. So it doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about a spellcaster PC. I'm only even considering it for the sake of variety.

I found two mages works well though. Specialise one into breaking down all the defences enemy mages put up so you can squash them properly, and the other one into 'splosions.

Johnny Blade

2012-07-28, 09:11 PM

Mages start out in a very weak position, not just physically but in terms of spell selection.
I'll say that two Sleep spells are all you really need to pull your weight, though.

And there's no really good reason not to be a specialist mage of some kind to get your extra spell per level. Well, Diviner, Conjurer, Illusionist or Wild Mage, that is. The rest loses a bit too much to be really worth it, I think.

You can also just start as something else and dual-class later, though. A couple of levels of Cleric won't hurt and give you some fun stuff to augment your mage spells later.
Thief/Mage is fairly redundant, of course.
Fighter/Mages can get crazy powerful, no matter what exactly you do, dual- or multi-class. In a Tutu or Trilogy game, you can even start your career as a Berserker. Few things can seriously threaten to kill a Berserker/Mage without first wearing him down for a good, long time in which they are subjected to a raving maniac flailing at them in a frenzy, madly screaming spells of immense power out of his foaming mouth, eyes aglow with blood lust and arcane energy.

Anyway, since there was also something about Wild Mages. They are pretty cool. That extra spell slot makes them actually more forgiving than regular mages in my opinion. You do need a backup, though. Sometimes, that Breach or Detect Invisibility just has to hit right then and there, and even a 5% chance of screwing up is too much then.
Plus, they're always fun, of course.

My reading of it was actually to assume that you weren't going to be invited guest, but rather part of the entertainment and have to fight your way out...
Well, I think it could go either way. Might be an invitation. Might be an invitation that's also rigged to teleport you upon reading.

dianakingston

2012-07-29, 04:23 AM

Well, in BG2 I often had Aerie, Imoen AND Nalia in the group. And while Magic Missile, AoE and such was useful I found myself mostly using mages for special circumstances. It seemed like anything I badly needed paralyzed or weakened would inevitably make the saves, and anything lesser could be chopped up easily enough by Jaheira and my monstrous PC. So it doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about a spellcaster PC. I'm only even considering it for the sake of variety.

The problem with Imoen, Nalia and Aerie, though, is that they all have built-in limitations - they'll never progress as far as a spellcaster PC, especially if you start with BG1 and go all the way to the end with the same character. And by the time you reach enemies who can make saves, you'll have tools like Greater Malison and Lower Resistance which even the odds. I slapped Firkraag upside the head with a Finger of Death, it was marvelous. :)

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-29, 04:57 AM

dianakingston remined me of how killing dragons in BG2 is rewarding. They are tough cookies, specially when you first met them. When I saw the shadow dragon for the first time I was completely surprised. "I'm supposed to fight that?!"
In comparison, Neverwinter Nights had the wimpiest dragons ever. Then again, NWN is a walk in the park anyway. Why am I talking about it? :smalltongue:

dianakingston

2012-07-29, 05:01 AM

In fairness, that's true of about half the NPCs in BG1. Possibly more.

Quite true. :) Really, aside from Edwin, Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen, I'm hard-pressed to think of any BG1 NPCs who have a substantial presence in the later games...

They're not completely random. Most of the time they cast spells with (IIRC) a 5% that a 'wild surge' occurs on casting, which is the random thing (which can be good, bad, or just weird). They also count as specialist mages (so gain +1 memorisation slot) without having to bar a school of magic. They have two unique spells which play off the surge mechanic, one of which can potentially let you cast higher level spells out of 1st level slots, assuming all goes well on the surge.

So there's a chance the surge can happen any time you cast a spell, but it's possible to sway the odds in your favor? Hmm...

Technically, 3 spells (though two are variants of the same thing). And with Greater Chaos Shield the Reckless Dweomer tends to work in your favor - if not by casting a 9th level spell from a 1st level slot, it does it with the beneficial surge effects. Though there is the chance something will go wrong... Still, it simply is fun to play with a Wild Mage - even if it forces you to reload sometimes (ie. my Wild Mage had an unfortunate surge in the Copper Coronet which made everyone inside hostile).

It does sound like an interesting wild card - maybe I'll exchange Edwin for Neera (unless she tries to cast Magic Missile and turns herself into a chicken, who knows...) :)

dianakingston

2012-07-29, 05:03 AM

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-29, 05:51 AM

An apt comparison would be High Dragons in "Dragon Age: Origins". Those were not easy battles. :)

Oh, boy, I remember that.
I also remember getting pissed because Anomen Allistair stole the final blow from my character when we attacked the witch's mother... and so Allistair was the one in the dragonslaying cinematic, not my main character.

dianakingston

2012-07-29, 05:59 AM

Oh, boy, I remember that.
I also remember getting pissed because Anomen Allistair stole the final blow from my character when we attacked the witch's mother... and so Allistair was the one in the dragonslaying cinematic, not my main character.

That happened to me too (with the other High Dragon, the one in the mountains). I was romancing him at the time, so I figured "Eh, let him have this one." :)

ThiagoMartell

2012-07-29, 06:16 AM

That happened to me too (with the other High Dragon, the one in the mountains). I was romancing him at the time, so I figured "Eh, let him have this one." :)

My main character was too busy joggling Zevran and Leliana to hold a candle to Allistair =p
Romance is so cool in Dragon Age.

EDIT: Speaking of romance (and getting back on topic :smallbiggrin:), we know the new NPCs are romanceable. What about the old ones?

dianakingston

2012-07-29, 06:29 AM

My main character was too busy joggling Zevran and Leliana to hold a candle to Allistair =p
Romance is so cool in Dragon Age.

Oh, absolutely. :) I mean, my first character was a Human Noble, so romancing Alistair made sense (and you get to replace Anora as Queen of Ferelden, which, frankly, she had it coming :smallsmile:), but on my second playthrough I was a male Mage who fell for Morrigan, she broke his heart, and he turned to Zevran for comfort. The whole love triangle was surprisingly complex. :)

EDIT: Speaking of romance (and getting back on topic :smallbiggrin:), we know the new NPCs are romanceable. What about the old ones?

Well, the creators have said that they weren't allowed to modify existing NPCs in that way - in fact, I think the only reason Neera, Dorn and Rasaad are romance options at all is because they'll be turning up in BG2EE, so you can potentially play the romance all the way through the trilogy.

Johnny Blade

2012-07-29, 07:16 AM

Quite true. :) Really, aside from Edwin, Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc and Imoen, I'm hard-pressed to think of any BG1 NPCs who have a substantial presence in the later games...
Well, a few of them get cameos, obviously, but only Faldorn's and Xzar's/Montaron's have any real bearing on a quest.

So there's a chance the surge can happen any time you cast a spell, but it's possible to sway the odds in your favor? Hmm...
Not really in your favor, but they'll be less stacked against you. The Chaos Shield spells add 15 and 25 to your rolls, respectively.
They also stack, depending on your mod configuration. Some mods have, as far as I remember, changed this. It's an exploit anyway, so let's assume only +25. Since there are 100 different Wild Surge results and only a few let you actually cast the spell you want, this isn't much. It makes getting good results more likely, but not all good results may be what you need at the time. (I'd leave a link to a Wild Surge table here, but honestly, it's more fun not to know the options if you've never played the class before.)

Really, when it comes to assessing the power of the class, I find it's best to consider a Wild Mage a Mage that gets an extra spell/level but suffers a 5% miscast chance for it.
Which is a pretty good deal, in my opinion.

By the way, in BG1, the random caster level fluctuations are, in my experience, much, much more significant than the risk of Wild Surges. Losing or gaining two damage dice on a Fireball makes a huge difference there.

(This is assuming your memorized 1st level spells aren't 10 Reckless Dweomers that you fire whenever you don't absolutely need to cast a Web or Dispel or something. This is exactly what you should be doing, though. :smallcool:)