Two-Weapon Fighter+

[DKaiserX]

Greetings all!

I'm new to D&D and am looking for a few helpful suggestions. A friend of mine started a 3.5 campaign which will be using various books, though not all will be used. Thus, any suggestions would be very effective if the book was mentioned. Regardless, here are the details of the character I would like to build:

The goal is to optimize Two-Weapon Fighting as much as possible. My character was originally a Human Fighter. However, a friend (Not the DM) of mine later suggested taking my first two levels as Rogue, and the rest as Fighter (and possibly even the Dread Commando prestige class). Note that the Fighter, though not the greatest class, was my original choice. After numerous discussions with my friend, we feel that I should be a Human Rogue turned Fighter, with Mithril Breastplate armor (for Evasion and various other feats). I decided early on that I liked Rapiers (My DM will allow me to craft a slashing edge onto them later, so I can make use of Weapon Finesse as oppose to getting scimitars), so I am looking to eventually create Large Elvin Thinblades with slashing edges (which will allow me to later enchant them with Vorpal). The reason they're large sized is because I hope to get strongarm bracers so I could do more damage as a Two-Weapon Fighter. To enhance the effectiveness of Sneak Attack, I'm also considering the Goggles of Night to give my character Darkvision. In addition, the feats I'm considering are Craven, Endurance, Diehard, Greater/Improved/Oversized/Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Improved Critical, and Weapon Focus to Melee Weapon Mastery (Weapon Supremacy if I have a feat to waste and want to be arrogant).

As of now, I'm trying optimize the damage output of my character. Flay Foe seemed like a decent feat, as it works with the slashing edges (which I would like to use more often since it allows me to have a chance to vorpal). Skewer Foe seemed nice too. From my DM's interpretation of Telling Blow, it seems they will allow it to work with Craven. I've also consider other feats that seem like they would give me more attacks, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

So, how would I go about doing more damage with a Two-Weapon Fighter? Or, how can I better my effectiveness as a Two-Weapon Fighter (other things to consider aside from feats such as gear). Am I looking in the right direction or should I consider a different way to approach this character? I'm set on using Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapier-like weapons, with everything else is flexible. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

[Amoren]

Hmmm, you could probably make it a charger as well? Not sure how you'd get pounce, but with power attack you'd do one extra damage per hit reduction with each weapon, throw in shock trooper, leap attack, and what not and you'd be getting your BAB as extra damage to each weapon, which would then be multiplied on a crit. You'll be a prime target, though.

[ThiagoMartell]

*grabs popcorn*

[Metahuman1]

If, IF you can take the feat Travel devotion from complete divine, take a level of cleric.

If you can take the Spirit Lion totem Barbarian AFC, dip Barbarian for one level. Alternatively, if you have access to Magic of Incarnum, Use the feats in there to get the Sphinxe Claws Soulmeld. This is to gain pounce.


Enjoy being able to charge, full attack, and then as a swift action move away form the target. This works on top of the suggested rouge Dip, and the ideas for bigger Elvin Thin Blades and adding power attack.




Also, if you can get a material called pandemic Silver, I believe out of the Fiend Folio, it's good to make your weapons out of for a two weapon fighter.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Qualifying for Weapon Finesse is not the same as being a light weapon. Neither eating an additional -2 or an additional feat for +1 to damage on half your attacks (or on all attacks if you're using matched weapons for Weapon Focus line) is not worth it.

Neither is a feat for Elven Thinblades, which is +1 to damage over rapiers, or Lightblades, which is +1 damage over short swords.

It's probably best to go for short swords in general, or kukris for crit-fishing (but that's generally not a good tactic unless you're going for Aptitude Kukri + Lightning Maces abuse, or grabbing Blood in the Water and keep stacking on attack and damage bonuses that stay for as long as you're in the stance). Strongarm Bracers, being a magic item worth much less than a feat, *might* be worth it for +1 damage. It's going to be hard for your DM to explain why there are large short swords in with the medium-sized loot, though.

Diehard... is not worth it. Grab Steadfast Determination from PHBII instead.

Flay Foe... is not worth it. I'm not even sure why you'd want it over Skewer Foe, an obviously superior feat.

Did your friend recommend you ask on the forums? If so, I have some more advice and am going to recommend you listen to the others. If not... I'm going to assume this is low-op, and anything else I can give you is going to wreck the campaign.

[eggs]

In addition, the feats I'm considering are Craven, Endurance, Diehard, Greater/Improved/Oversized/Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Improved Critical, and Weapon Focus to Melee Weapon Mastery (Weapon Supremacy if I have a feat to waste and want to be arrogant).
Nice, ew, ew, nice, nice, ew, nice, ew, eh, ew.

EDIT:
I usually start fighter builds with the Weapon Focus line as a baseline for expected damage, then whittle those feats away in favor of anything that overshadows them. Since spending 2 levels for +1 attack or +2 damage is pretty lackluster, the builds almost never end up with anything from that feat chain (the exceptions are builds using weapon style feats and throwers, who make excellent use of ranged weapon mastery).

I'd recommend getting some Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) worked in here. They usually have an easier time at TWF, and they do it in a fun way (micromanaging Stormguard Warrior, juggling maneuvers and refreshes, watching the DM's face turn funny colors while they abuse Aptitude weapons... :smalltongue:)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Nice, ew, ew, nice, nice, ew, nice, ew, eh, ew.

Actually, Weapon Supremacy is okay. I also recommended Steadfast Determination instead of Diehard, so he's getting SOME mileage out of Endurance, even if it is just tax. Weapon Focus line is also okay, especially on a TWFer who can get a bit more mileage out of Weapon Spec. Finally, Greater TWF isn't all that good.

(I hope I matched your comments with the correct feats)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Funny little trick I used on my last TWF - be a [dragonblood] race and grab the Dragon Tail feat (RotD) at first level. Make sure your Strength is at least 13, and then you can grab Prehensile Tail (SK), giving you an extra 'hand' for attacks, and retroactively changing all of your two-weapon feats for the relevant multi-weapon feats.

[eggs]

(I hope I matched your comments with the correct feats)
My bad; I figured I'd be ninjaed a half-dozen times, thought I'd just be echoing a chorus. :smallredface:

To be more useful: Diehard, Oversized TWF and Weapon Finesse tend toward weak options on this kind of build (Diehard doesn't do much and basically costs two feats; OTWF's big draw is Power Attacking with an offhand, which is pretty niche; Weapon Finesse can be replicated with a Feycraft weapon, which is available at about the same time as the Weapon Finesse feat on a Rogue/Fighter build.

If a Fighter build isn't doing anything with its Swift/Immediate actions, I tend to prefer the Resolute ACF to Steadfast Determination for the saved feat, but I could see both cases.

Greater TWF is pretty weak, unless a build can turn it into a useful touch attack somehow (trip, grapple, Stormguard Warrior, etc.)

Improved Critical is one of those effects that's pretty easy to get in a variety of ways (Keen Enhancement, Keen Edge spell, Scabbard of Keen Edges), and which is pretty easily resisted (anything immune to crits), but with Craven, the effect will be desirable somehow.

Weapon Superiority is pretty cool, and Weapon Mastery isn't always a bad thing (esp. the Ranged version). The rest of the WF line can be useful for cranking damage up a bit, but it rarely compares well to its alternatives (eg. Barbarian for Rage or Ferocity's +2 attack/damage with one level dip or Law Devotion Cleric for +3 to +7 attack in one level).

[Randomguy]

There's a fighter ACF that lets you get a rogue's sneak attack instead of a fighters bonus feats, which would probably be worth it since you get a large amount of attacks, and you get sneak attack to each one.

In general I'd say weapon finesse wouldn't be too great a feat for this build. Consider how big a bonus you're getting from it. If you dex is 4 higher than your strength, that's only a +2 to hit, which isn't that great. It would probably just be better to just have a higher strength (but keep you dex around 14 or better if you can).

I'd also say to avoid the weapon focus line. You spend 3 feats for +3 to attack and damage. Weapon supremecy is decent, though. See if there are other things you could be spending your feats on.

Have you considered dipping into Warblade a few times? Tiger Claw maneuvers would get you a lot of extra attacks. Warblade dips work best when you scatter them out a few levels apart.

[Keld Denar]

It looks like you are trying to cram too many things into one build. Take a step back, figure out one or two things you want to be really good at, and start there. Once you have a skeleton fleshed out, you can see if you have extra resources left over to invest in other tricks, or not. Don't forget that there are other important things in life that arn't straight up being a damage monster. Some survivability is important, especially HP and saves. AC can lag a little, depending on your goals, but make sure you aren't a total glass cannon, or easy Dominate fodder.

[Gwendol]

A couple of points here.

Going ranger instead of fighter is an alternative if you want a skillful survivalist (though not necessarily the best class for TWF)

Taking the daring outlaw feat and going swashbuckler instead of fighter gives you more mileage from your rogue levels, and gives you a few other class features.

If you want to keep the rogue levels, consider taking three levels of rogue for the penetrating strike ACF, which trades away trap sense for half sneak attack damage against things normally immune.

Consider the whirling frenzy barbarian variant (& lion spirit totem for Pounce).

In complete warrior, there are some style feats for TWF you may want to take a look at. The pre-reqs are a bit prohibitive though.

[Ninja PieKing]

not sure about 3.5 but in pathfinder there are sunblades that work like bastard swords but count as short swords when it comes to proficiency and TWF among other things.

[darkdragoon]

The small bonus in damage you get from wielding 2 bigger weapons is pretty much never worth the cost. More crits are similarly nice, but never something to rely on.

A dip in Swashbuckler would get you Weapon Finesse for free and Int to damage (not much and precision-based like sneak attack, but still probably better than the alternative). A two-weapon user might also be interested in the "shield of blades" alternate class feature.

Gloves of the Balanced Hand will get you up to Improved TWF.