Kaboom?

[GutterFace]

lets say outside the game and inside the game we play regular time passes.

in this week off i have my character make a bunch (3 per day) explosive runes every day for 6 days.

lets say i scribe them on a small pottery shard.

in combat am i allowed to lets say...throw them and say the script/rune aloud allowing them to blow up and do damage?

or is this just craziness?

[GutterFace]

AND

can i tie a magic stone to the pottery shard

throw it for direct damage then say the rune out loud?

HAH!

[Fable Wright]

Read Explosive Runes closer. Notice how they go boom on a failed Dispel check? Area Dispel. Fail the Dispel check. All the runes go boom. Though, if you do that, I would recommend putting them on different pieces of pottery, and then launching them like Shrapnel, because Area Dispel only dispels one spell per object...

[Lateral]

Though, if you do that, I would recommend putting them on different pieces of pottery, and then launching them like Shrapnel, because Area Dispel only dispels one spell per object...

Nah, the usual way is to put 'em all on one object and use a Targeted Dispel, then intentionally fail all the dispel checks.

[Fable Wright]

Nah, the usual way is to put 'em all on one object and use a Targeted Dispel, then intentionally fail all the dispel checks.

Auto-succeed clause. You can't fail those checks...

[GutterFace]

i think i can get around the issue with detonating runes by using a different word/rune per rune i create. i have autohypnosis so i can memorize all the words/runes that i created in advance

at the worst i can lay them down as mines, back up and draw people in

MUAHAHAH

[limejuicepowder]

What about using Erase? It has a range, but the spell says it only works on magical writings if you touch it (ranged is for mundane writing). This implies to me the spell would autofail if used at range, causing the runes to explode. It also has the benefit of being 1st level.

[limejuicepowder]

What about using Erase? It has a range, but the spell says it only works on magical writings if you touch it (ranged is for mundane writing). This implies to me the spell would autofail if used at range, causing the runes to explode. It also has the benefit of being 1st level.

Edit: as a side note, I've always wanted to make a sorc gish that uses a harpoon loaded with explosive runes. Throw harpoon, sticking it in someone. Next round use erase/dispel magic, and things die.

[Fable Wright]

i think i can get around the issue with detonating runes by using a different word/rune per rune i create. i have autohypnosis so i can memorize all the words/runes that i created in advance

at the worst i can lay them down as mines, back up and draw people in

MUAHAHAH

...No, no that doesn't work. How are you detonating them? By command word? That doesn't actually work. You need to either get up close to read the runes with your own eyes, or fail to dispel them. Reading the words from memory or another sheet of paper does nothing. You must read the rune, on the sheet, within range. Calling out what it says does as much as telling someone what the page with the Sepia Snake Sigil on it says.

[whibla]

throw it for direct damage then say the rune out loud?

I see nothing in the description of explosive runes that suggests you can trigger them using a command word, only that you can avoid triggering them, through use of a command word*

*Well, it actually doesn't even mention a command word, it simply says "any characters you specifically instruct can read the protected writings..." I would surmise that this means that a rogue hiding in your study cannot overhear the word being used by another then use it to bypass the trap without having to resort to a disable device check.

There is also the implication that the runes are not, in and of themselves, the written information on the object upon which you're casting the spell. While pottery shards might contain writing, or indeed you might have inscribed "missile" on your trident, that's beginning to push the boundaries of what is 'reasonable' (granted, what's reasonable is a totally fluff argument.)

[gbprime]

What you want, my friend, is the patented Boom Box. :smallamused:

HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10605783&postcount=15)

[GutterFace]

this is all great info lol. i just wanted to make sure im not doing something insane before i try it!

thanks everyone! keep the fun coming!

[whibla]

What you want, my friend, is the patented Boom Box. :smallamused:

HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10605783&postcount=15)

Just for now, I'll not quibble about whether Dispel Magic qualifies as a 'harmful' spell, and would thus be eligible for inclusion as a spell glyph. I certainly allow it, though that's more a throwback to 2nd ed. and before.

However, I would take issue with anyone trying to cast dispel magic (or indeed glyph) as a lvl 1 caster, since it's a 3rd level spell, and therefore requires a minimum caster level of 5. Doesn't take away from the concept you describe, just makes it slightly less effective...

[TuggyNE]

If you are going to try this (somewhat cheesy) tactic, I suggest using a wand of dispel magic, in order to minimize the chances of successful dispelling and remove the discussion of whether you can fail a dispel check against your own spells.

As far as the boom box goes, I'm afraid you can't really get a CL 1 glyph or a CL 1 dispel in the glyph, at least not without major shenanigans:
Spell Glyph
You can store any harmful spell of 3rd level or lower that you know. All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph. If the spell has a target, it targets the intruder. If the spell has an area or an amorphous effect the area or effect is centered on the intruder. If the spell summons creatures, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack. Saving throws and spell resistance operate as normal, except that the DC is based on the level of the spell stored in the glyph. (emphasis added)

Therefore, unless you can cast dispel magic and glyph of warding at CL 1, this won't work. (An Artificer 3 might be able to do it at CL 3, though, assuming access to both of those spells.)

[Wookie-ranger]

You could read the rune(s) with the use of arcane eye or similar sensors.

[bobthe6th]

heh heh heh, answer, a wand! a wand of gliph of warding to be precise, and some arrows of another alignment.

1, take the wand
2, pick up your level-1 arrows of opposite alignment.
3, cast gliph of warding on the boom box.
4, profit

you are for the moment a level one caster, but you still know dispel magic, so it works. the spell is at caster level one, because " All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph." and "The character gains one or more negative levels, which might permanently drain the character’s levels. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as Hit Dice, he dies. Each negative level gives a creature the following penalties: -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). In addition, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from the highest spell level castable." and "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

cost?:
one charge on a wand of gliph of warding=250gp
level-1 +1 arrows of another alinment= Nx900gp
being a cleric/archivist level 5+=10000xp


so min cost of 3,850gp + 10,000xp+the 20 explosive runes+box+20 peaces of parchment.

fear my rule fu!

[bobthe6th]

simplafied letter bomb, or the functioning boom box
made for wizard 9/ geometer 1
also, letter bomb:
20 castings of explosive runes:free
20 pices of parchment: 4gp
1 onvelope: .2 gp
1/20 lb of sealing wax: .05gp
1 charge ring of gliph of warding: 1100gp
sum:1104.25 gp
creation:
1:cast explosive runes 20 times, once on each piece of parchment
2:place all parchment into an onvelope, close onvelope
3:while holding 9 axomatic +1 arrows, place sealing wax, seal with gliph of warding wand signet ring, set as a spell ward with dispel magic as an area dispel as the spell, and the gliph set to go off when the letter is opened.
result: the gliph and spell inside the gliph are at caster level 1, so the area dispel is 1d20+1 vs DC21 to dispel the explosive runes, so it fails on anything but a 20. When the runes fail to dispel, they go off, dealing 6d6 a piece to everything within 10ft. So if one nat twenty out of 20 chances, 19 go off dealing 114d6 damage(average 342 force damage) no save to ajacent creatures and allowing a save for half damage 10ft out. BOOM.

[Wookie-ranger]

Explosive Rune.
A fun spell. We all know it. Personally I find one part of the spell VERY interesting: From SRD, "Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw"
[bold mine] What the Abyss does that mean?!?!?
1: What if i make the rune very big. On an object weighing less the 10lb as by the Target discrimination. Silk weighs 35g per square meter for example. You can read that from pretty far away. (Unless of course, you use the 'spot' skill rules by RAW, were you would not be able to see the sun)
2: or the reverse, what if you make the rune very small, so that only someone with a magnifying glass can read it? no one else is near enough to read it, even if they are standing right next to it.
3: What if someone uses binoculars to read it? or more megically speaking, what if you use Clairvoyance/ Scrying? Does he get damaged? Does everyone else in 10ft of him get damaged? Does anyone get damaged out to the distance of the reader?
4: What if you are blind and someone next to it reads it?
5: What if you have bad eyes and can only read it when you are 2 inches away?

:smallconfused:

[gbprime]

If you are going to try this (somewhat cheesy) tactic, I suggest using a wand of dispel magic, in order to minimize the chances of successful dispelling and remove the discussion of whether you can fail a dispel check against your own spells.

As far as the boom box goes, I'm afraid you can't really get a CL 1 glyph or a CL 1 dispel in the glyph, at least not without major shenanigans: (emphasis added)

Therefore, unless you can cast dispel magic and glyph of warding at CL 1, this won't work. (An Artificer 3 might be able to do it at CL 3, though, assuming access to both of those spells.)

The original setup for this is a Geometer PrC, so the wizard himself has Glyph of Warding. And you'd be using Dispel Ward at CL1 out of a scroll or a wand made for this purpose to get around the caster level part.

But otherwise, you're correct. Dispel Ward at your normal caster level reduces the efficiency of the Boom Box considerably. Hence the need for a simple way around it like a scroll or a wand. (The temporary negative levels thing didn't occur to me, as most PC groups would sell off or cannibalize a magic item potent enough to do that.)

[TuggyNE]

heh heh heh, answer, a wand! a wand of gliph of warding to be precise, and some arrows of another alignment.

1, take the wand
2, pick up your level-1 arrows of opposite alignment.
3, cast gliph of warding on the boom box.
4, profit

you are for the moment a level one caster, but you still know dispel magic, so it works. the spell is at caster level one, because " All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph." and "The character gains one or more negative levels, which might permanently drain the character’s levels. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as Hit Dice, he dies. Each negative level gives a creature the following penalties: -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). In addition, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from the highest spell level castable." (emphasis added)

Unfortunately, the bolded part is why this will probably not work. You lose your four highest spell slots, if you were level 5, and even a focused abjuration specialist would need 24+ Int to have any 3rd-level slots left. (I don't think I need to mention how unusual a focused specialization in abjuration is.)


The original setup for this is a Geometer PrC, so the wizard himself has Glyph of Warding. And you'd be using Dispel Ward at CL1 out of a scroll or a wand made for this purpose to get around the caster level part.

Here the item creation rules rear their ugly head.

A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.
I.e., unless you have dispel magic as a level 1 spell, you can't create a wand of it at CL 1.

I have some vague idea that artificer might be able to get around this, perhaps, but I'm not sure. Other possibilities include abuse of Sanctum Spell to crank the spell down to level 2 (outside your sanctum), or perhaps switching gears entirely and trying to find a divine spell list that has it at level 1 or 2 for an archivist to make use of.

Other than those, it isn't gonna work.


But otherwise, you're correct. Dispel Ward at your normal caster level reduces the efficiency of the Boom Box considerably. Hence the need for a simple way around it like a scroll or a wand.

Scrolls and wands do make it a lot easier, but they're not magic, if you'll forgive the expression. :smalltongue: It's a lot harder to reduce dispel magic CL below 5 than it is to get it there in the first place. So a different tack might be better; perhaps using various items and even class features to make your spells harder to dispel.

[Devmaar]

You can work with your Trapsmith buddy to make a CL1 scroll of Dispel Magic

[Curmudgeon]

You can work with your Trapsmith buddy to make a CL1 scroll of Dispel Magic
That doesn't work.
You cast spells as a bard does. Bards don't get to cast level 1 spells until they achieve CL 2, so neither do Trapsmiths.

[bobthe6th]

you don't need third level spells, as gliph just requires you know the spell.

You can store any harmful spell of 3rd level or lower that you know

so the letter bomber need only know dispel, which negative levels fail to take away.

[TuggyNE]

You can work with your Trapsmith buddy to make a CL1 scroll of Dispel Magic

As usual, spell list abuse with Trapsmith to the rescue! :smallyuk:

That gets you to CL 2, at any rate, which reduces the required caster level for the runes to 12.


you don't need third level spells, as gliph just requires you know the spell.


so the letter bomber need only know dispel, which negative levels fail to take away.

That is ... a questionable interpretation, to say the least.

However, a theurge build is likely to be able to get past this, in any case, so it's not really an important point.

[Soranar]

I believe the standard delivery tactic of explosive runes is a level 1 summon (celestial monkeys can read, and they fly too)

Just a bunch of them as suicide bombers

[gbprime]

I.e., unless you have dispel magic as a level 1 spell, you can't create a wand of it at CL 1.


Ah. Allow me to point out I never said Dispel Magic. I'm using Dispel Ward, which is a 1st level cleric/wizard spell on page 67 of the Spell Compendium. It works just like an area dispel magic EXCEPT that it works on a lot less stuff, like specifically Explosive Runes.

And a 1st level spell is most definately available at CL1, which makes the Boom Box go... well... boom. :smallcool:

[TuggyNE]

Ah. Allow me to point out I never said Dispel Magic. I'm using Dispel Ward, which is a 1st level cleric/wizard spell on page 67 of the Spell Compendium. It works just like an area dispel magic EXCEPT that it works on a lot less stuff, like specifically Explosive Runes.

And a 1st level spell is most definately available at CL1, which makes the Boom Box go... well... boom. :smallcool:

Ah, my apologies, sir, for missing that initially and then assuming the later instances were typos. :smallredface:

[Gavinfoxx]

Isn't the main way to use a Fire Trap and Mage Hand, and the burning counts as attempting to mar the runes, setting them off?

[Curmudgeon]

Isn't the main way to use a Fire Trap and Mage Hand, and the burning counts as attempting to mar the runes, setting them off?
"Marring" the runes doesn't do anything.
Another creature can remove them with a successful dispel magic or erase spell, but attempting to dispel or erase the runes and failing to do so triggers the explosion.
Only those two specific spell effects can trigger the explosion. A goat can chew up dozens of parchment sheets scribed with Explosive Runes without any problem.

[GutterFace]

Little pottery squares (see ancient text; cuneiform) with Explosive Rune (word/shape) on it, throw at an opponent in combat (touch attack since it has to just land in their square). pull out your Spyglass, read, detonate.

the rules state only that the rune is detonated when read, or even attempted to be read.

[Acanous]

which is, I think, the best way of disarming them.

[Curmudgeon]

Little pottery squares (see ancient text; cuneiform) with Explosive Rune (word/shape) on it, throw at an opponent in combat (touch attack since it has to just land in their square). pull out your Spyglass, read, detonate.
That's making up some house rules. You don't get to make a touch attack except where the rules specify, such as for splash weapons. That said, most squares do not have armor. But just attempting to read the runes will never detonate them; only success will.
The runes detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage. If the pottery squares are text side down, or obscured from your sight (by rocks or vegetation) you can't accomplish anything with your spyglass. Whether you have any chance at all is dependent on the mercies of your DM.