Can you convert a ranged touch spell into a melee touch spell?

[Jukebox Hero]

One of my players insists that it is possible to do this, and I keep on telling them that it's not, and that she's misinterpreting the rules here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#concentratingtoMaintainaSpell) (under "Holding a Charge")

However, despite my best efforts, I cannot convince her, and thus, I'm turning to you guys to garner support...or to tell me that in fact, I am wrong.

[holywhippet]

Not sure that I understand the question. Generally ranged touch attack spells are all instant attack type spells. eg. acid arrow. You cast the spell, roll to see if you hit touch AC and it either works or it misses entirely.

Regular touch spells give your character a "charge" which is applied as soon as you touch someone or something. eg. heal or harm.

The reason your player can't treat a ranged touch attack spell as a touch attack spell is just above the section you linked to:


Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch.

That is the larger heading your rule is under. It specifically only refers to spells with a range of touch. Any ranged touch spells have a range listed other than touch. For example, acid arrow has this listed - Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level).

Since it has a range other than touch it isn't covered by those rules.

[Jukebox Hero]

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say, although with not nearly as clearly (I'm terrible with debates).

[newBlazingAngel]

Just show him this thread. It's easier this way. :smallwink:

When I first read the title I thought he wanted to do an unarmed attack and a touch spell together...can you do that?

[Jukebox Hero]

Just show him this thread. It's easier this way. :smallwink:

When I first read the title I thought he wanted to do an unarmed attack and a touch spell together...can you do that?

Yes. Awesome, right? I was all like O.o when someone first told me.

[newBlazingAngel]

Sweet Jesus, why is nobody optimizing monk/spellcaster classes?

[Jukebox Hero]

Sweet Jesus, why is nobody optimizing monk/spellcaster classes?

Because it's kinda bad. One of the monk's main class features is his flurry, or with the variant in PHB2, a single devastating strike. Either way, it takes a full-round action, which means he can't do both that and cast a spell in the same round. The most effective way of doing what you're suggesting is actually to be a Duskblade. And arcane spellcasters usually have low BAB, which is...suboptimal.

[newBlazingAngel]

Couldn't you prepare the spell beforehand?

[holywhippet]

Well, a monk/spellcaster could use a quickened spell and flurry. But that's a bit limited.

The most effective use of a monk/spellcaster is to cast buffing spells on themselves then wade in and start laying down a whuppin. Seriously, with the right combo of spell buffs a monk is damn scary - admittedly so is any suitably buffed fighter type. Or even a straight up cleric.

[newBlazingAngel]

I'll need to work on that. Well, we're severely off topic and the point of this thread has already been achieved. Shall we call it a day gentlemen?

[Jukebox Hero]

I'll need to work on that. Well, we're severely off topic and the point of this thread has already been achieved. Shall we call it a day gentlemen?

Sounds good. I've got a farewell party to go to anyways.

[newBlazingAngel]

Have fun. Looking forward to future conversation.

[CrazedPachyderm]

It sounds like something that would be perfectly reasonable/cool to make a feat for, though. Warlock's can attach their eldritch blast to a melee attack with the hideous blow invocation. You can deliver a touch spell with an unarmed attack or weapon as a duskblade, as mentioned. So why not a feat to let you punch someone with a scorching ray? You're already giving up the range advantage, after all.

[newBlazingAngel]

Hmm, now that's an idea. I can still see a lot of balance issues. You could probably optimize yourself pretty well by focusing on the melee damage.

[Xiander]

To be honest I have a hard time seeing how it would ever be better than just making a ranged touch attack. There are probably very specific builds that might make something of it, but in general I believe that just making a pure caster with a passable dex would be just as effective, if not more.

So in short, I see no reason not to allow a feat for punching people with ranged touch spells.

[Eldonauran]

So in short, I see no reason not to allow a feat for punching people with ranged touch spells.

See: Enlightened Fist -> Monk/Arcane caster prestige class. It allows what you are suggesting around the 7th level.

[Quietus]

To be honest I have a hard time seeing how it would ever be better than just making a ranged touch attack. There are probably very specific builds that might make something of it, but in general I believe that just making a pure caster with a passable dex would be just as effective, if not more.

So in short, I see no reason not to allow a feat for punching people with ranged touch spells.

Normally it'd be no issue. It only becomes a problem when you consider Duskblades, and then a feat which lets you turn a ranged touch attack into a touch attack becomes a necessary feat tax. The ability to full attack with Disintegrates is just too strong.

[Xiander]

Ah, once again my point is ruined by my lacking knowledge of every printed class ;)