[D&D 3.5 Base Class] Adept of the Eyes

[Lohj]

This is my First Class, so I would like a LOT of feedback as I stumble through it.


http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/057/5/8/Dungeon_141_Cover_by_robcamp1000.jpg
Image is taken from Dungeon magazine, as under fare use law.


Adept of the Eyes

Class Skills:
The Adept of the Eyes class skills(and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana; The Planes) (Int), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Cha), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
Skill points: (4 + Int Mod) x 4 at 1st level

Alignment: Any. The Beholders whom the individual strives to imitate are selfish, evil monsters, but the Adept doesn't necessarily need to be as well.
Hit Dice: d4
{table]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spell Level
1st|+0|+0|+2|+2| Eye of the Beholder|1
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Eye Rays (20ft)|1
3rd|+1|+1|+3|+3|Scales of the Beholder, Holding Gaze|1
4th|+2|+1|+4|+4|Darkvision (30ft), Eye Rays (30ft), Uncanny Dodge|2
5th|+2|+1|+4|+4|Enhanced Vision|2
6th|+3|+2|+5|+5|Eye Rays (40ft), Moment of Clarity|2
7th|+3|+2|+5|+5|I See You|3
8th|+4|+2|+6|+6|Darkvision(60ft)|3
9th|+4|+3|+6|+6|Improved Uncanny Dodge, |3
10th|+5|+3|+7|+7|Transformation 1st, Eye Rays (60ft), Telekinetic Sight|4
11th|+5|+3|+7|+7|Clear Vision|4
12th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+8|Darkvision(90ft)|4
13th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+8|Levitation|5
14th|+7/+2|+4|+9|+9|Eye Rays (80ft)|5
15th|+7/+2|+5|+9|+9|Transformation 2nd|5
16th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+10|Darkvision(120ft)|6
17th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+10|Ever-watchful |6
18th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Eye Rays (100ft)|6
19th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Anti-magic Sight|7
20th|+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Final Transformation, Omnicular|7[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Adepts of the Eye are proficient with all simple weapons and ranged Martial weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield.

Spell-like Abilities: During his journey, an Adept learns few spells, though they can use them to great potency. Every level, an Adept can choose one spell from the Sorcerer spell list of an appropriate level as indicated by the table above. The spell can be of a level lower, but never one the adept already knows.

The Adept gains spell slots for each spell level, as they increase in strength, indicated on the table below.
Cl/SL|1|2|3|4|5|6|7
1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
5|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
6|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
7|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
8|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
9|2|2|1|-|-|-|-
10|2|2|2|1|-|-|-
11|2|2|2|1|-|-|-
12|2|2|2|1|-|-|-
13|2|2|2|2|1|-|-
14|2|2|2|2|1|-|-
15|2|2|2|2|1|-|-
16|2|2|2|2|2|1|-
17|2|2|2|2|2|1|-
18|2|2|2|2|2|1|-
19|2|2|2|2|2|2|1
20|2|2|2|2|2|2|1
A spell, once used, expends one spell slot of it's corresponding level. This spell slot cannot be used for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level. This is called the 'cooldown.' The round a spell is cast in does not count towards it's cooldown.
A 5th level adept knows two 2nd level spells, but only has one level 2 spell slot. He also knows 3 1st level spells, and has two level 1 spell slots.
This could be written as:
Level one Spell Slots: 1.1, 1.2
Level two Spell Slots: 2.1
Combat could go:
1) 2nd level spell, using spell slot 2.1
2) 1st level spell, using Spell slot 1.1
3) 1st level spell, using spell slot 1.2
At the 4th round of combat, the 2.1 spell slot would come back, as it waited two rounds from 2 - 4.
At level 11, the Adept knows 2 4th level spells, 3 3rd, 3 2nd, and 3 1st.
They have spell slots: 1.1,2,3;2.1,2,3;3.1,2,3;4.1
Combat could be:
1)4th level spell, using spell slot 4.1
2)3rd level spells, using spell slot 3.1
3)3rd level spells, using spell slot 3.2
4)2nd level spells, using spell slot 2.1
At round 5, the 4.1 spell slot comes back, as it has been a 4 rounds, the level of the spell.
The Adept never needs to rest to regain their spells, but is very limited in the number they know. An Adept can never learn a spell from and Outside source, and so at 20th level is limited to 20 known spells.
In order to cast spells, the Adept must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the spell's level.
An Adept's Caster Level is equal to 1/2 his Adept level.

Eye of the Beholder (SU): The path of an Adept of the Eye is one of self-change. No matter what race one starts as, all follow a similar path of progress towards the power of the Omnicular. At 1st level, an Adept’s eyes change, following the will of the Adept, adding a +2 bonus to all Decipher Script, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive checks made. (Sense Motive checks only gain bonus against creatures and Characters that have a discernible facial structure.)
This bonus increases by 2 at every 3 levels (4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th).

Eye Rays (SU): The adepts eyes change more, allowing them to convert any touch spell they can cast into a ranged touch attack, indicated by the table above. Any area-of-effect spell the adept can cast can be converted into a single target ranged touch attack. These rays cannot be used while the adept is blinded, or their vision is obscured. All saves DC's are 10 + Adept's Caster Level + Adept's Intelligence Modifier.

Scales of the Beholder (SU): The adept’s body changes, growing scales all along their body, granting a +2 natural armor bonus. This bonus increases by 1 for every 2 levels of Adept.

Holding Gaze(SU): At 3rd level, the Adept has realized the power of his Eyes. He can now cast Hold Person once per day for every 3 Adept Levels.

Darkvision (SU): Starting at 4th level, and increasing in strength at every 4 levels after, the Adept gains Darkvision up to a certain point. This ability can be disabled as a swift action on the part of the Adept.

Enhanced Vision (EX): The Adept’s sight has become even better. At level 5, the Adept gains a +5 class bonus to save against blinding effects. This bonus increases by 5 for every 5 levels of Adept past this one (10, 15, 20)

Moment of Clarity: At 6th level, the Adept can convert his stillness into power. By expending his move action for the turn, he can select one spell slot that is currently unavailable and reduce the cooldown by 1 round. This cannot be used if the spell only has 1 round remaining.
After casting Melf's acid arrow (a level 2 spell), the Adept uses Moment of Clarity to reduce the rounds remaining on it from 2 to one, allowing the usage of the spell the round after next.
However, after casting Magic Missile, Moment of Clarity cannot be used, as Magic Missile only has a cooldown of one round.

I See You (SU): At 7th level, the adept can cast Invisibility Purge once per day for every 3 Adept levels.

Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 5th level, an Adept gains the ability to react to danger before their senses would normally allow them to do so. They retains their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if they are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If an Adept already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a Adept with at least four levels of rogue, for example), they automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 9th level and higher, an Adept can no longer be flanked; they can react to opponents on opposite sides of them as easily as they can react to a single attacker. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Adept by flanking them, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Adept levels.

Transformation (SU): The Adept is now so entrenched in his path that they have begun to change. At 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the Adept gains an Eye stalk, allowing him to use an additional Ranged Touch Spell, as indicated by the Eye Rays power, per round. Additionally, the Adept gains a +3 bonus to Intimidation checks made against creatures that can see the Eye Stalks for each one.

Telekinetic Sight At 10th level, the Adept can cast Telekinesis, once per day a for every 3 Adept levels.

Clear Vision (EX): The Adept can no longer be blinded.

Levitation (SU): The Adept's body is becoming more and more like it's obsession, allowing the Adept to fly with ease. The adept gains a fly speed equal to it's base land move speed, good maneuverability.

Ever Watchful (EX): Your eyes have you covered, even when sleeping. You are considered to be awake while sleeping, allowing the use of Spot checks.

Anti-magic Sight (SU): The eyes of the Adept are now so powerful, they can be used just as the eye of the Beholder. As a standard action, the adept can create an 80ft cone in front of them which acts as Anti-Magic Field, Caster Level equal to the Adept level. This effect is useable a number of times each day equal to their Int modifier.

Omnicular (SU): The pinnacle of Beholder power, the Adept can now see in all directions up to his maximum vision. The Adept also gains the Aberration type. The Adept is now immune to all effects that affect sight. Finally, the Adept gains a +2 Inherent bonus to Intelligence.

[Gandariel]

FEEDBACK TIME!
Comments are in Bold


This is my First Class, so I would like a LOT of feedback as I stumble through it.


Adept of the Eyes

Class Skills:
The Adept of the Eyes class skills(and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana; The Planes) (Int), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
Skill points: (6 + Int Mod) x 4 at 1st level
Pretty standard, although casters usually don't have that many skillpoints

Alignment: Any. The Beholders whom the individual strives to imitate are selfish, evil monsters, but the Adept doesn't necessarily need to be as well.
Hit Dice: d8
again, casters don't usually get d8, but no big deal
{table]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spell Level
1st|+0|+0|+2|+2| Eye of the Beholder|1
2nd|+1|+0|+3|+3|Eye Rays (20ft), Trap Finding |1
3rd|+1|+1|+3|+3|Trap Sense +1, Scales of the Beholder |1
4th|+2|+1|+4|+4|Darkvision (30ft), Eye Rays (30ft) |2
5th|+2|+1|+4|+4|Enhanced Vision, Uncanny Dodge|2
6th|+3|+2|+5|+5|Eye Rays (40ft), Trap Sense +2|2
7th|+3|+2|+5|+5| I See You |3
8th|+4|+2|+6|+6|Darkvision(60ft)|3
9th|+4|+3|+6|+6|Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +3|3
10th|+5|+3|+7|+7|Transformation 1st, Eye Rays (60ft)|4
11th|+5|+3|+7|+7|Clear Vision|4
12th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+8|Darkvision(90ft), Trap Sense +4|4
13th|+6/+1|+4|+8|+8|Levitation|5
14th|+7/+2|+4|+9|+9|Eye Rays (80ft)|5
15th|+7/+2|+5|+9|+9|Transformation 2nd, Trap Sense +5|5
16th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+10|Darkvision(120ft)|6
17th|+8/+3|+5|+10|+10|Ever-watchful |6
18th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Eye Rays (100ft), Trap Sense +6|6
19th|+9/+4|+6|+11|+11|Anti-magic Sight|7
20th|+10/+5|+6|+12|+12|Final Transformation, Omnicular|7[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Adepts of the Eye are proficient with
all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor
or shield.

Spell-like Abilities: During his journey, an Adept learns few spells, though they can use them to great potency. Every level, an Adept can choose one spell from the Sorcerer spell list of an appropriate level as indicated by the table above. The spell can be of a level lower, but never one the adept already knows. These spells can be used once per round per spell level after casting. A 4th level adept can cast 1 level 2 spell. After casting, he must wait 2 rounds before he can cast it again. An 11th level adept can cast 4th level spells, and must wait 4 rounds in between casting them.
The Adept never needs to rest to regain their spells, but is very limited in the number they know. An Adept can never learn a spell from and Outside source, and so at 20th level is limited to 20 known spells.
An Adept's Caster Level is equal to his Adept level.
Okay, max 7th level spells, seems ok up to now. Kinda worried about, say, Wall of Stone-Spamming or other such abuse, but okay.
What stat does it use for save DCs?
Also, i already see a problem.
For the first three levels, you have to go on crossbow-mode every other turn.
for level 4-6 you do something like:
2nd level // 1st level // CROSSBOW
OR
1st level // 2nd Level // 1st Level // CROSSBOW// 2nd level//1st level//CROSSBOW
I can see a problem here if you have to use a crossbow at level 6..

For levels 7-9, you do something like:
2nd // 1st // 3rd // 2nd // 1st // Crossbow
Meh. Kind of weak.
Of course, if most combats last 3 or less turns you're mostly ok, but you're using weak spells and you have limited capability. Could be strenghtened i think.



Eye of the Beholder (SU): The path of an Adept of the Eye is one of self-change. No matter what race one starts as, all follow a similar path of progress towards the power of the Omnicular. At 1st level, an Adept’s eyes change, following the will of the Adept, adding a +2 bonus to all Decipher Script, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive checks made. (Sense Motive checks only gain bonus against creatures and Characters that have a discernible facial structure.)
This bonus increases by 2 at every 3 levels (4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, 19th).
Good fluff-wise and useful. Great!
Eye Rays (SU): The adepts eyes change more, allowing them to convert any spells they can cast into a ranged touch attack, indicated by the table above. Spells used this way inflict a penalty equal to the Adept’s Intelligence modifier upon the target(s). These rays cannot be used while the adept is blinded, or their vision is obscured.
What do you mean "inflict a penalty?" a penalty of what?
Also, how do you convert a Wall of Stone in a ranged touch attack?
You should rewrite this ability and specify better what it does

Trap Finding (EX): Adepts can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
This is usually given to classes who are explicitly trained to do these things. I guess that Search bonus helps, but i don't really see the connection to the flavor of the charachter

Scales of the Beholder (SU): The adept’s body changes, growing scales all along their body, granting a +2 armor bonus. This bonus increases by 1 for every 2 levels of Adept.
Armor bonus? Can't you just have it be Natural Armor bonus (since that's what it is?

Trap Sense (EX): At 3rd level, an Adept gains an intuitive sense that alerts them to danger from traps, giving them a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the Adept reaches 6th level, to +3 when they reaches 9th level, to +4 when they reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Again, see above

Enhanced Vision (EX): The Adept’s sight has become even better. At level 5, the Adept gains a +5 class bonus to save against blinding effects. This bonus increases by 5 for every 5 levels of Adept past this one (10, 15, 20)
Situational but useful, i guess

I See You (SU): At 7th level, the adept can cast Invisibility Purge once per day for every 3 Adept levels, caster level 1/2 Adept level.
Good, nothing to say here

Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 5th level, an Adept gains the ability to react to danger before their senses would normally allow them to do so. They retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if they are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If an Adept already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a Adept with at least four levels of rogue, for example), they automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
If this charachter is supposed to be a magical guy, why do you keep giving him roguish stuff? it doesn't really fit.
If you want this guy to be a skillmonkey you should give him a lot more skills, maybe better BAB and offensive capabilities different than spells.
If you want to keep him as a spellcaster, these roguish things don't make much sense

Improved Uncanny Dodge (EX): At 9th level and higher, an Adept can no longer be flanked; they can react to opponents on opposite sides of them as easily as they can react to a single attacker. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking them, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Adept levels.
See above
Transformation (SU): The Adept is now so entrenched in his path that they have begun to change. At 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the Adept gains an Eye stalk, allowing him to use an additional spell per round. Additionally, the Adept gains a +3 bonus to Intimidation checks made against creatures that can see the Eye Stalks for each one.
Now we're getting somewhere. This is a powerful ability. For the first 14 levels it's just good. Not sure if it would be game-breaking at higher levels, but i suspect it won't since, for example, you get to cast one only 7th level spell per encounter, one only 6th level, and likely one only 5th
Clear Vision (EX): The Adept can no longer be blinded.
Alright

Levitation (SU): The Adept's body is becoming more and more like it's obsession, allowing the Adept to fly with ease. The adept gains a fly speed equal to it's base land move speed, good maneuverability.
Don't see why not ^^ Saves you a spell known

Ever Watchful (EX): Your eyes have you covered, even when sleeping. You are considered to be awake while sleeping, allowing the use of Spot checks.
Good ^^

Anti-magic Sight (SU): The eyes of the Adept are now so powerful, they can be used just as the eye of the Beholder. As a standard action, the adept can create an 80ft cone in front of them which acts as Anti-Magic Field, Caster Level equal to the Adept level. This effect is useable a number of times each day equal to their Int modifier.
Adequate to the level, good and saves you another spell known.

Omnicular (SU): The pinnacle of Beholder power, the Adept can now see in all directions up to his maximum vision. The Adept also gains the Aberration type. The Adept is now immune to all effects that affect sight.
Not really strong as a capstone. You could consider getting something stronger, to make players want to stay in the class for all 20 levels :P


Sorry if i sound offensive or aggressive or anything, i'm just commenting.
It's my first time too posting something i've done on these boards (link in my sig) and it helps to have critique.

All in all, needs to be reworked a bit, but the concept is good, keep up!

[Welknair]

I'm assuming that each spell level has a separate cooldown? It's an interesting mechanic, and not one I've seen before (Which is saying something). The only problem I see with your core casting mechanic is what Gandariel pointed out - They have to go into "Crossbow Mode" (Reloading and being useless for a round) frequently during combat, up till mid levels. What about Cantrips? Perhaps they could have a couple at-will 0's? It'd still stink to be reduced to 0 level spells 9th level, but it's something. But also as Gand points out, combat often is pretty short.

At later levels, these guys would be able to bust into any encounter and drop their highest level spells first.. That's really interesting. Your casting mechanic encourages these guys to go for quick-kills and ambushes. That is very rare. I don't know if that's what you were going for, but that's how it is.

Also note the very limited versatility within the spells. Being restricted to 1 spell known per level is a bit restrictive.

At this point I've only read through the core casting stuff, and not any of the other abilities. Looking at just this, I'd hope that their other features give them some nice things to make up for below-full casting

*Reads more*

I generally agree with Gand's comments on the class features. I would note that I've seen a couple diviner classes and PrCs that get Trapfinding, Evasion, and/or Uncanny Dodge. In this case, I'd assume they are seeing the danger more easily than other people, giving them the ability to get out of the way. Makes sense.

[Gandariel]

I'm assuming that each spell level has a separate cooldown? It's an interesting mechanic, and not one I've seen before (Which is saying something). The only problem I see with your core casting mechanic is what Gandariel pointed out - They have to go into "Crossbow Mode" (Reloading and being useless for a round) frequently during combat, up till mid levels. What about Cantrips? Perhaps they could have a couple at-will 0's? It'd still stink to be reduced to 0 level spells 9th level, but it's something. But also as Gand points out, combat often is pretty short.

At later levels, these guys would be able to bust into any encounter and drop their highest level spells first.. That's really interesting. Your casting mechanic encourages these guys to go for quick-kills and ambushes. That is very rare. I don't know if that's what you were going for, but that's how it is.

Also note the very limited versatility within the spells. Being restricted to 1 spell known per level is a bit restrictive.

At this point I've only read through the core casting stuff, and not any of the other abilities. Looking at just this, I'd hope that their other features give them some nice things to make up for below-full casting

*Reads more*

I generally agree with Gand's comments on the class features. I would note that I've seen a couple diviner classes and PrCs that get Trapfinding, Evasion, and/or Uncanny Dodge. In this case, I'd assume they are seeing the danger more easily than other people, giving them the ability to get out of the way. Makes sense.

For a class with super-eye-powers, Uncanny dodge is okay and makes sense.
Trapfinding, though?

Anyway, the main ability is the multispell thing.

At level 20, you can cast Four spells (7th,6th,5th,4th) in a round.
I hope you've terminated the encounter, because from this moment on you're almost useless.
On the second turn you can cast three spells:Say, Haste, Glitterdust and.. Mage armor.
Nice.
Third round: Now you're on Crossbow mode for a round (at level 20)
4th Round: you can cast a level 1 spell!
5th round: You can cast a level 2 spell
6th Round: You can cast a level 4, a level 3, and a level 1+
Etc.
As you can see, after the first two levels your abilities are extremely limitated, to the point of having NOTHING to do on the third round of encounters

[Welknair]

For a class with super-eye-powers, Uncanny dodge is okay and makes sense.
Trapfinding, though?

Anyway, the main ability is the multispell thing.

At level 20, you can cast Four spells (7th,6th,5th,4th) in a round.
I hope you've terminated the encounter, because from this moment on you're almost useless.
On the second turn you can cast three spells:Say, Haste, Glitterdust and.. Mage armor.
Nice.
Third round: Now you're on Crossbow mode for a round (at level 20)
4th Round: you can cast a level 1 spell!
5th round: You can cast a level 2 spell
6th Round: You can cast a level 4, a level 3, and a level 1+
Etc.
As you can see, after the first two levels your abilities are extremely limitated, to the point of having NOTHING to do on the third round of encounters

Doesn't Trapfinding make just as much sense? You're seeing the traps. One way or the other, it isn't exactly an overpowering feature.

Wait, where does it say they can cast four spells a round? :smallconfused:

[Lohj]

Both of you, thank you for your comments. What if, say, it was a 1dx cooldown per spell, with a decrease in length as the Adept gained levels?
Say, for example:
level 1, it's 2d4, level 5 it's a 1d8, at level 10 it's 1d6, and at level 20 it's 1 round.
So a level 20 Adept can cast any spell every-other round?

[Lohj]

Wait, where does it say they can cast four spells a round? :smallconfused:

The Transformation feature states that the Eye stalks he gains allows him to cast another spell per round. After reading your critiques, I guess what I meant was he could cast another Ray Conversion spell per round.

[Welknair]

Both of you, thank you for your comments. What if, say, it was a 1dx cooldown per spell, with a decrease in length as the Adept gained levels?
Say, for example:
level 1, it's 2d4, level 5 it's a 1d8, at level 10 it's 1d6, and at level 20 it's 1 round.
So a level 20 Adept can cast any spell every-other round?

1. I like that lower-level spells have shorter cool downs under the current system.

2. Adopting the 1dx approach means that at the least, they'll be in crossbow mode every other round. This is not what you want. When you're in crossbow-mode, you're completely useless, which is no fun. The point is for them to have something to do each round. By making it such that there are rounds in which they cannot cast, you are making them sit around idly waiting for cooldowns. I would strongly advise against this.

[Lohj]

1. I like that lower-level spells have shorter cool downs under the current system.

2. Adopting the 1dx approach means that at the least, they'll be in crossbow mode every other round. This is not what you want. When you're in crossbow-mode, you're completely useless, which is no fun. The point is for them to have something to do each round. By making it such that there are rounds in which they cannot cast, you are making them sit around idly waiting for cooldowns. I would strongly advise against this.

Okay, yeah. Then another idea would be a cooldown equal to the spell's level - the Adept's Int modifier.
That way, the more Intelligent the Adept, the quicker he can cast.

[Lohj]

FEEDBACK TIME!
Comments are in Bold



Sorry if i sound offensive or aggressive or anything, i'm just commenting.
It's my first time too posting something i've done on these boards (link in my sig) and it helps to have critique.

All in all, needs to be reworked a bit, but the concept is good, keep up!

Thank you! So, about Trap Sense, I guess what I was going for was that the Adept could see the traps, as his heightened ocular came into play. However, I can see the erroneous nature of this, as this kind of 'sense' is more built towards those who's entire well being is one of finding and disabling traps.

On another hand, the Trapfinding ability I hope made sense, as if he could see the trap using his buffed search check, then he would have a better outside of battle use.
I removed both, and added in a couple abilities to make up for the change.

Also, for the Cooldown, what if it was 1 round per spell level - the Int modifier of the Adept. That way, the adept's player is rewarded for maxing Intelligence.

[zegram 33]

ok, well, im kinda working on (among other things, i get distracted easily) a "seer" class right now which is divination spells, bonuses to divination accracy etc, and, for want of a better word, eye magic.
something that i gave it that i think would work VERY well for this chap is an innate gaze attack.
allow it to be switched on and off as say a swift action, maybe allow scaling abilities as your gaze attack, starting weak (hypnotism on one target?) then working up through suggestion, hold person, etc) and leaving the current (and very interesting) mechanism un-messed with.
gaze attacks are a pretty uncommon mechanic, so heres the SRD's description for reference:While the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural.

Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn.

An opponent can avert his eyes from the creature’s face, looking at the creature’s body, watching its shadow, or tracking the creature in a reflective surface. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance of not having to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains concealment relative to the opponent. An opponent can shut his eyes, turn his back on the creature, or wear a blindfold. In these cases, the opponent does not need to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment relative to the opponent.

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.

Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack.

A creature is immune to its own gaze attack.

If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately.

Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents.

Characters using darkvision in complete darkness are affected by a gaze attack normally.

Unless specified otherwise, a creature with a gaze attack can control its gaze attack and “turn it off ” when so desired. Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.


this gives you a decent passive ability thats fairly unique (apart from all the other eye type classes, which are pretty rare) and ALSO lets you concentrate to use it as an "attack" whilst your spells are reloading.
hence why i suggest stuff like, well...."suggestion" becaus ethey are only mediocre in a combat situation, but still good enough to have merit and be useful as a passive.
also gives you some good scope to create your own effects, which is always fun.
TL;DR: when i experienced this problem, i found gaze attacks to be the way to go, and i think they'de work almost even better here.

other than that, as the people above say, turning all spells into rays doesnt really work if im honest. maybe all spells that require a save give you the OPTION of turning them into rays?

[Lohj]

ok, well, im kinda working on (among other things, i get distracted easily) a "seer" class right now which is divination spells, bonuses to divination accracy etc, and, for want of a better word, eye magic.
something that i gave it that i think would work VERY well for this chap is an innate gaze attack.
allow it to be switched on and off as say a swift action, maybe allow scaling abilities as your gaze attack, starting weak (hypnotism on one target?) then working up through suggestion, hold person, etc) and leaving the current (and very interesting) mechanism un-messed with.
gaze attacks are a pretty uncommon mechanic, so heres the SRD's description for reference:While the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural.

Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn.

An opponent can avert his eyes from the creature’s face, looking at the creature’s body, watching its shadow, or tracking the creature in a reflective surface. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance of not having to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains concealment relative to the opponent. An opponent can shut his eyes, turn his back on the creature, or wear a blindfold. In these cases, the opponent does not need to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment relative to the opponent.

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.

Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack.

A creature is immune to its own gaze attack.

If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately.

Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents.

Characters using darkvision in complete darkness are affected by a gaze attack normally.

Unless specified otherwise, a creature with a gaze attack can control its gaze attack and “turn it off ” when so desired. Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.


this gives you a decent passive ability thats fairly unique (apart from all the other eye type classes, which are pretty rare) and ALSO lets you concentrate to use it as an "attack" whilst your spells are reloading.
hence why i suggest stuff like, well...."suggestion" becaus ethey are only mediocre in a combat situation, but still good enough to have merit and be useful as a passive.
also gives you some good scope to create your own effects, which is always fun.
TL;DR: when i experienced this problem, i found gaze attacks to be the way to go, and i think they'de work almost even better here.

other than that, as the people above say, turning all spells into rays doesnt really work if im honest. maybe all spells that require a save give you the OPTION of turning them into rays?

Hmm... I can see where your mechanic is coming from, and I like it, though I don't think it will work for the section where the target can look away. You can't 'look away' from a fireball. (^_^)
And, the 'gaze' function isn't what I'm going for. I am going for the Beholder method of casting, (it's a touch spell that is now a ranged touch spell.) The Beholder doesn't require you to actually see them for them to hurt you.
Am I explaining myself? Thank you for your feedback, though. If I ever make a Medusa spawn class, could I use this?

[Welknair]

Okay, yeah. Then another idea would be a cooldown equal to the spell's level - the Adept's Int modifier.
That way, the more Intelligent the Adept, the quicker he can cast.

Note that your standard 1st-level SAD character will have at least a 16 in the appropriate stat. Which means at 1st level these guys have a -3 on cooldowns. So they can at-will any spell up to 3rd level. We want them to have stuff to do, but I think that might be a little much.

[Lohj]

Note that your standard 1st-level SAD character will have at least a 16 in the appropriate stat. Which means at 1st level these guys have a -3 on cooldowns. So they can at-will any spell up to 3rd level. We want them to have stuff to do, but I think that might be a little much.

Yeaaaaaaaaah, agreed. Okay, so what about a minimum cooldown of 1/2 the spell level?

[zegram 33]

sorry, i dont think i explained myself very well.

i meant give them an EXTRA ability as a gaze attack.
so they have normal spells as you have them written, but they have one or maybe eventually two options for a gaze attack, giving them a passive chance to effect people with these (probaby rather weak) abilities, or the ability to use it as an attack when your "normal" spells are on recharge.
just a little thematic perk really, but also gives them something to do in crossbow mode (they either cast a spell or give all allies some form of concealment from one foe)

sorry for not making that clear, i have a tendency to go into Varsuvious levels of "crazily verbose" :smallsmile:

and of course, no problem using that, its pretty much all either srd or idea's from a class i havnt even really begun yet haha

[Lohj]

sorry, i dont think i explained myself very well.

i meant give them an EXTRA ability as a gaze attack.
so they have normal spells as you have them written, but they have one or maybe eventually two options for a gaze attack, giving them a passive chance to effect people with these (probaby rather weak) abilities, or the ability to use it as an attack when your "normal" spells are on recharge.
just a little thematic perk really, but also gives them something to do in crossbow mode (they either cast a spell or give all allies some form of concealment from one foe)

sorry for not making that clear, i have a tendency to go into Varsuvious levels of "crazily verbose" :smallsmile:

Aaaaah. Okay. I 'see' what you mean, now. That makes more sense.
So, I get what mean by that, however; I am planning on the Adept being able to use spells more often, though at a lower caster level. I changed his caster level for his spells to 1/2 his adept level, thereby making the saves on his abilities more reasonable, though in doing so I decreased the cooldown on his abilities, thereby making him have a small wait time on abilites above 3rd level, but increasing his effectiveness if the player plans out each round. Another thing is that your perk seems something like out of 4th ed. If a Wizard in 3.5 runs out of spells, the target should be dead or close to it. However, if he does indeed run out of spells, he is useless. No BAB, no battle abilities, nothing. The Adept is very, very limited in what he can do, but the fact that the spells do, in fact, come back during battle, he can continue to fight in a battle. Once you get to the point where a Wizard can unmake a city, the Adept is going to be outclassed, power-wise, but can last longer in a fight, as his abilities come back.
Having something 'extra' such as your perk seems to make him a little over-powered.
I did, however, add in a few natural abilities, i.e. Hold Person, Telekinesis, Anti-magic field, and Invisibility purge, which never go on cooldown. These four abilities allow him some utility, as none of them do damage, and can only be used in certain situations.
Thank you again for your feedback. I hope I am not being too overbearing. I really like your ideas.

[Welknair]

Yeaaaaaaaaah, agreed. Okay, so what about a minimum cooldown of 1/2 the spell level?

I think that may be a little overly complex, plus we're looking for them to be able to at-will very low level spells at later levels. For this system, that'd mean rounding down. Which means you'd still be at-willing first level spells at first level.

I've been juggling a lot of ideas around for this, and can't seem to find a clean solution to avoid cross-bowing.

[Lohj]

I think that may be a little overly complex, plus we're looking for them to be able to at-will very low level spells at later levels. For this system, that'd mean rounding down. Which means you'd still be at-willing first level spells at first level.

I've been juggling a lot of ideas around for this, and can't seem to find a clean solution to avoid cross-bowing.

Okay. I understand that this is a complex issue.
The only options I can see, however, would be
a) A dX system, randomly determining the cooldown.
b) A spell level minus Int modifier cooldown, with a minimum cooldown based on spell level.
c) A Cooldown based purely on spell level.
d) A limited number of uses based upon Int Mod and Spell level.
e) No cooldown, allowing spamming.
f) A just a base cooldown that decreases as the Adept gets stronger. (3 rounds at levels 1-6, 2 rounds at levels 7-12, and 1 round from 13-18.
g) a 1d4 cooldown no matter the level.

Thoughts?
And thank you for your replies.

[Welknair]

I would advise you not to go with an int-mod-dependent system, as players generally start with +3 or +4, then it progresses very slowly from there. This is a difficult progression to work around.

I am of the opinion that spell cooldowns should decrease as you level up. Something along the lines of having a 5 round cooldown on your highest level spells, and a cooldown one less for every level down. This still has a very signficiant crossbow problem.

What if your spells cooled down independently? :smallconfused:

At lower levels, it means that by fourth level you're no longer crossbowing, yet you still aren't constantly spamming the same spell. I think that's a possibility.

Edit: The main downside is the amount of bookkeeping it'd require. The player would need to track the cooldowns of up to five spells at a time. Possible, but it'd be annoying.

[zegram 33]

Lohj posted: some stuff
if im entirely honest, id missed hold person and antimagic fields. with them in effect yeh, a gaze attack WOULD be rather too good, i was thinking it was a refreshing wizard with much less selection (and since it's a rare encounter that lasts more than 5-ish rounds, i was missing what made it so good (can ALWAYS open witha nova) so no worries there :smallwink:

nah, your not being too overbearing at all. its kinda my thing for homebrew just to chuck idea's out there and see what happens.

and in that vein.....
you could have it so that instead of learning a new spell at a level you can reduce the cooldown for all known spells of that level by 1 round? that way you can sorta customize how you wanna play it, with the ability to spam weaker spells cutting down options even more?

in other news, i got the pun and am suitably amused :smallbiggrin:

[Lohj]

I would advise you not to go with an int-mod-dependent system, as players generally start with +3 or +4, then it progresses very slowly from there. This is a difficult progression to work around.

I am of the opinion that spell cooldowns should decrease as you level up. Something along the lines of having a 5 round cooldown on your highest level spells, and a cooldown one less for every level down. This still has a very signficiant crossbow problem.

What if your spells cooled down independently? :smallconfused:

At lower levels, it means that by fourth level you're no longer crossbowing, yet you still aren't constantly spamming the same spell. I think that's a possibility.

Edit: The main downside is the amount of bookkeeping it'd require. The player would need to track the cooldowns of up to five spells at a time. Possible, but it'd be annoying.

Hmm... I like that idea. What if we went with that, but with a move action to reduce the cooldown of a spell? If the Adept gets into an advantageous position, he would be able to think ahead and reduce cooldowns at the cost of his movement for the round. Maybe only by 1 round, but still a signifcant difference at higher levels when he isn't moving for several rounds.

[Lohj]

I would advise you not to go with an int-mod-dependent system, as players generally start with +3 or +4, then it progresses very slowly from there. This is a difficult progression to work around.

I am of the opinion that spell cooldowns should decrease as you level up. Something along the lines of having a 5 round cooldown on your highest level spells, and a cooldown one less for every level down. This still has a very signficiant crossbow problem.

What if your spells cooled down independently? :smallconfused:

At lower levels, it means that by fourth level you're no longer crossbowing, yet you still aren't constantly spamming the same spell. I think that's a possibility.

Edit: The main downside is the amount of bookkeeping it'd require. The player would need to track the cooldowns of up to five spells at a time. Possible, but it'd be annoying.

Hmm... I like that idea. What if we went with that, but with a move action to reduce the cooldown of a spell? If the Adept gets into an advantageous position, he would be able to think ahead and reduce cooldowns at the cost of his movement for the round. Maybe only by 1 round, but still a signifcant difference at higher levels when he isn't moving for several rounds.

[Lohj]

I would advise you not to go with an int-mod-dependent system, as players generally start with +3 or +4, then it progresses very slowly from there. This is a difficult progression to work around.

I am of the opinion that spell cooldowns should decrease as you level up. Something along the lines of having a 5 round cooldown on your highest level spells, and a cooldown one less for every level down. This still has a very signficiant crossbow problem.

What if your spells cooled down independently? :smallconfused:

At lower levels, it means that by fourth level you're no longer crossbowing, yet you still aren't constantly spamming the same spell. I think that's a possibility.

Edit: The main downside is the amount of bookkeeping it'd require. The player would need to track the cooldowns of up to five spells at a time. Possible, but it'd be annoying.

Hmm... I like that idea. What if we went with that, but with a move action to reduce the cooldown of a spell? If the Adept gets into an advantageous position, he would be able to think ahead and reduce cooldowns at the cost of his movement for the round. Maybe only by 1 round, but still a signifcant difference at higher levels when he isn't moving for several rounds.

[Welknair]

Hmm... I like that idea. What if we went with that, but with a move action to reduce the cooldown of a spell? If the Adept gets into an advantageous position, he would be able to think ahead and reduce cooldowns at the cost of his movement for the round. Maybe only by 1 round, but still a signifcant difference at higher levels when he isn't moving for several rounds.

/approve

I think you're on the right track.

[Gandariel]

quick idea.
what if we give them 2 slots/level, after a few levels?
For example
levels 1-3 => you have 1 level 1 spell.
Level 4-6 => You have 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell.
Level 7-9 => You have 2 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells and 1 level 3 spell
etc

Eventually, at level 20 you will have 2 slots of each level and 1 level 7 slot.
Without changing the recharge mechanism at all

For the first three levels you will be in crossbow mode every other turn, and that sucks.
BUT after then you'll never be in crossbow mode again!

Also, i like the idea of a progressing gaze attack: you will have something to do even at level one!

[Lohj]

/approve

I think you're on the right track.

Okay, so: A base cooldown for the highest spell level of 5 rounds, and a decrease by 1 round per spell level lower that the highest spell level known, to a minimum of 1. And a move action ability to decrease the cooldown by one round.

[Owrtho]

Personally, I think the older version of a static cooldown time for spells based on level worked better. As for avoiding having periods of being unable to cast, they could just get a cantrip at level 1 in addition to a level one spell.

That said, I think people are overlooking that it does not anywhere state that spells of the same level share a cooldown. This means at level two when the Adept has two level one spells, it could just alternate between them each round.

That said, it might be worth adding in something to prevent that, possibly making it so that only spells with a spell level up to half the adept's maximum spell level don't share a cooldown with other spells of the same level so as to prevent a level twenty adept casting two levels sevens and two level sixes the first round of combat.

The other possibility is as mentioned adding some non-spell ray or other eye originating attacks for the adept to make use of.

And since it seems I've been ninja'd by a number of posts, I figured I'd mention the move action to reduce a cooldown could work, but if you go with that add in something stating spells of the same level share a cooldown.

Edit:

quick idea.
what if we give them 2 slots/level, after a few levels?
For example
levels 1-3 => you have 1 level 1 spell.
Level 4-6 => You have 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell.
Level 7-9 => You have 2 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells and 1 level 3 spell
etc

Eventually, at level 20 you will have 2 slots of each level and 1 level 7 slot.
Without changing the recharge mechanism at all

For the first three levels you will be in crossbow mode every other turn, and that sucks.
BUT after then you'll never be in crossbow mode again!

Also, i like the idea of a progressing gaze attack: you will have something to do even at level one!

Except they already gain a spell every level, not just every level they gain access to a new spell level. As such they would have three level one spells by level 3, not one, and the rest is similarly off.

I also forgot to note Improved Uncanny Dodge mentioned barbarian when it should say adept.

Owrtho

[Lohj]

quick idea.
what if we give them 2 slots/level, after a few levels?
For example
levels 1-3 => you have 1 level 1 spell.
Level 4-6 => You have 2 level 1 spells and 1 level 2 spell.
Level 7-9 => You have 2 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells and 1 level 3 spell
etc

Eventually, at level 20 you will have 2 slots of each level and 1 level 7 slot.
Without changing the recharge mechanism at all

Hmm... That would decrease his variety quite a bit. He'd have one less spell per spell level. Were I to use this, I would decrease the cooldown, or just eliminate it all together.

If I'm reading this correctly, he'd have only 1 spell at levels 1-3. Is that what you wrote?

[Welknair]

I did suggest earlier that you could grant cantrip access with 1 or 0 round cooldowns, and that'd be a pretty easy fix.

Perhaps your original system, spells of same level share a cooldown, 0-round cooldown cantrips, plus move action to reduce a cooldown by one. I really like this setup. Simple and effective.

[Lohj]

I did suggest earlier that you could grant cantrip access with 1 or 0 round cooldowns, and that'd be a pretty easy fix.

Perhaps your original system, spells of same level share a cooldown, 0-round cooldown cantrips, plus move action to reduce a cooldown by one. I really like this setup. Simple and effective.

In my original system, I think you missed something that I stated: each INDIVIDUAL spell has it's own cooldown. If I wasn't clear on that, then I'm sorry.

[Welknair]

In my original system, I think you missed something that I stated: each INDIVIDUAL spell has it's own cooldown. If I wasn't clear on that, then I'm sorry.

The stuff following "Your original system" were meant as the modifications.

[Lohj]

Personally, I think the older version of a static cooldown time for spells based on level worked better. As for avoiding having periods of being unable to cast, they could just get a cantrip at level 1 in addition to a level one spell.

That said, I think people are overlooking that it does not anywhere state that spells of the same level share a cooldown. This means at level two when the Adept has two level one spells, it could just alternate between them each round.

That said, it might be worth adding in something to prevent that, possibly making it so that only spells with a spell level up to half the adept's maximum spell level don't share a cooldown with other spells of the same level so as to prevent a level twenty adept casting two levels sevens and two level sixes the first round of combat.

The other possibility is as mentioned adding some non-spell ray or other eye originating attacks for the adept to make use of.

And since it seems I've been ninja'd by a number of posts, I figured I'd mention the move action to reduce a cooldown could work, but if you go with that add in something stating spells of the same level share a cooldown.

Edit:


Except they already gain a spell every level, not just every level they gain access to a new spell level. As such they would have three level one spells by level 3, not one, and the rest is similarly off.

I also forgot to note Improved Uncanny Dodge mentioned barbarian when it should say adept.

Owrtho

Thank you very much. I was hoping the individual spells would have separate cooldowns. However, I agree that opening with a Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Chain lightning, and Otluke's Frozen Sphere in one round MIGHT be overodoing it. (^_^)

[Lohj]

The stuff following "Your original system" were meant as the modifications.

Ah. My apologies.

[Gandariel]

Hmm... That would decrease his variety quite a bit. He'd have one less spell per spell level. Were I to use this, I would decrease the cooldown, or just eliminate it all together.

If I'm reading this correctly, he'd have only 1 spell at levels 1-3. Is that what you wrote?

i meant SLOTS, not spells

[Lohj]

i meant SLOTS, not spells

Ah.
So, how do you suggest this would work with a cooldown?
I'm kinda lost. :smallfrown:

Edit:
I think I get it now.
You are suggesting a system in which each spell slot goes on cooldown after use, yeah?
In which case, I already have that system; Each spell goes on cooldown individually, and then comes off cooldown individually, thereby eliminating the needs for spell slots. Right?

[Gandariel]

Example:
You have 1 level 3 slot, 2 level 2 and 2 level 1
So you have 5 slots: 1.1 1.2 2.1 2.2 3.1
You know a some spells (your known spells mechanic is fine)
Round 1:
You cast a third level spell, using the 3.1 slot. 3.1 slot is now unavailable, it will be ready again in 3 rounds
Now all slots are available, except for the 3.1 slot.

Round 2, you cast a 2nd level spell, and you decide to use the slot 2.1.
Now you have
1.1 1.2 2.2 AVAILABLE
2.1 -2 turns
3.1 -2 turns

Next turn, you want to cast a level 2 spell, using slot 2.2
1.1 1.2 AVAILABLE
2.1 -1 Turn
2.2 -2 Turns
3.1 -1 Turn


What do you not understand?

[Lohj]

Example:
You have 1 level 3 slot, 2 level 2 and 2 level 1
So you have 5 slots: 1.1 1.2 2.1 2.2 3.1
You know a some spells (your known spells mechanic is fine)
Round 1:
You cast a third level spell, using the 3.1 slot. 3.1 slot is now unavailable, it will be ready again in 3 rounds
Now all slots are available, except for the 3.1 slot.

Round 2, you cast a 2nd level spell, and you decide to use the slot 2.1.
Now you have
1.1 1.2 2.2 AVAILABLE
2.1 -2 turns
3.1 -2 turns

Next turn, you want to cast a level 2 spell, using slot 2.2
1.1 1.2 AVAILABLE
2.1 -1 Turn
2.2 -2 Turns
3.1 -1 Turn


What do you not understand?

Ah. Okay, so you are just relabeling my original system. Awesome sauce. Makes me feel good knowing that I can do something good. :smallsmile:

[Gandariel]

Yes, the thing i proposed was the "minimum intervention" thing that could be done leaving your work intact.

By just having two slots of each level and leaving everything else unchanged, it should work good.
I'd say you get the second level of spell level X when you get the first slot of level X+1
So you start with a 1st level slot, and at 4th level you get a 2nd level slot and a 1st level one.

Oh, also: With a fullround action you can recover any slot.
Might be useful sometime, and you're sure it's not overpowered or anything

( The Move action =>-1 turn cooldown leads to you being able to spam spells at will at first level, which is not great )

[Owrtho]

( The Move action =>-1 turn cooldown leads to you being able to spam spells at will at first level, which is not great )

Hence why you make that an ability gained at a later level. Also, consider that they can't move on those turns, and some spells have more than a standard action casting time.
That said your proposed system seems to have merit. I take it the adept could cast the same spell he used to cause one slot to have cooldown while before the cooldown was done.

Owrtho

[Lohj]

Yes, the thing i proposed was the "minimum intervention" thing that could be done leaving your work intact.

By just having two slots of each level and leaving everything else unchanged, it should work good.
I'd say you get the second level of spell level X when you get the first slot of level X+1
So you start with a 1st level slot, and at 4th level you get a 2nd level slot and a 1st level one.

Oh, also: With a fullround action you can recover any slot.
Might be useful sometime, and you're sure it's not overpowered or anything

( The Move action =>-1 turn cooldown leads to you being able to spam spells at will at first level, which is not great )

I added in the spell slots, with a table and explanation, thereby allowing the better understanding. Yes, as you said, the Adept will be in Crossbow mode from levels 1-3, but from then on, machine gun of fun. Thank you so much for the idea.

[Lohj]

Added in a table for the spell slots, as well as an explanation for the usage. In addition, added a 'quick cooldown' ability at 6th level.

Too soon?

[Realms of Chaos]

Wait a moment. I know that it's a bit late for this but what was wrong with the original system in place? I'm looking at what Gandariel quoted early on and I can't see how anything looks even nearly too weak. There are no spell slots, you know one spell per level, and each individual spell (or at least that's how I'm reading it) seems to have its own cooldown time. If I understand the system properly, you'd never need your crossbow after level 1.

Starting at level 2, you could just jump back and forth between your 2 1st level spells every single round. If anything, this type of casting sounds powerful instead of underwhelming as most people are making it sound.

What was I missing here? :smallconfused:

[Gandariel]

That the original system was:

- You know X spells.

- You have 1 slot per level.

You can use slots to cast spells known.
After you've used up a slot, you gotta wait N rounds, where N is the level of the spell you cast

In this manner, you were forced to be in crossbow mode even at level nine, which sucks.

What you are thinking about, it would be MUCH stronger, maybe too much
you're thinking about them having 20 slots each with his separate cooldown.

What i proposed (and he agreed with) is a middle way: two slots per level (except only 1 slot at level 7)
so you get 13 slots in total

[Lohj]

That the original system was:

- You know X spells.

- You have 1 slot per level.

You can use slots to cast spells known.
After you've used up a slot, you gotta wait N rounds, where N is the level of the spell you cast

In this manner, you were forced to be in crossbow mode even at level nine, which sucks.

What you are thinking about, it would be MUCH stronger, maybe too much
you're thinking about them having 20 slots each with his separate cooldown.

What i proposed (and he agreed with) is a middle way: two slots per level (except only 1 slot at level 7)
so you get 13 slots in total

Actually, the Original system was you have as many slots per spell level as you have spells. The system stated:
These spells can be used once per round per spell level after casting. A 4th level adept can cast 1 level 2 spell. After casting, he must wait 2 rounds before he can cast it again. An 11th level adept can cast 4th level spells, and must wait 4 rounds in between casting them.

I was unclear on that, but I wanted him to be able to cast a spell (after level 1) every turn. However, I then realized that at level 20, you could, with Transformation, open up the battle with Finger of Death and Prismatic Spray, which could easily just erase enemies. The Spell Slot system requires you to think ahead for your spells.
The old system where each spell had it's own cooldown was a bit over powered, in my opinion.
I much more prefer your system, G-man, where the 2 spell slot per spell level makes him more balanced, as in a long battle (20 round+) the Adept would never run out of spells. Can you say Machine gun magic missle? :D

[Lohj]

Wait a moment. I know that it's a bit late for this but what was wrong with the original system in place? I'm looking at what Gandariel quoted early on and I can't see how anything looks even nearly too weak. There are no spell slots, you know one spell per level, and each individual spell (or at least that's how I'm reading it) seems to have its own cooldown time. If I understand the system properly, you'd never need your crossbow after level 1.

Starting at level 2, you could just jump back and forth between your 2 1st level spells every single round. If anything, this type of casting sounds powerful instead of underwhelming as most people are making it sound.

What was I missing here? :smallconfused:

You are correct. The big misunderstanding was that the Adept had one spell slot per level. I misunderstood the complaint, and so it went on in that thread. However, having a spell slot per spell known really over powers the Adept. A Finger of death followed by Prismatic spray can erase enemies. So, the 2 spell slots per spell level evens it out.
Thank you for your feedback!

[Lohj]

Removed the Full-round action recharge, as I believe the ability to cast Finger of Death every other round is really, really over-powered.

Replaced it with level 2 ability to shed light. This coupled with toggled Darkvision will make the Adept more easily utilized outside of battles, as he never runs out of light.

Thoughts? If not, then this will be the final version.

[Owrtho]

Removed the Full-round action recharge, as I believe the ability to cast Finger of Death every other round is really, really over-powered.

Replaced it with level 2 ability to shed light. This coupled with toggled Darkvision will make the Adept more easily utilized outside of battles, as he never runs out of light.

Thoughts? If not, then this will be the final version.

I'd suggest going with the move action to reduce the cooldown by 1 instead of the full-round action to completely remove the cooldown.

Owrtho

[Lohj]

I'd suggest going with the move action to reduce the cooldown by 1 instead of the full-round action to completely remove the cooldown.

Owrtho

Okay, that could work. Can you see it being over powered at any point?

[Lohj]

Alright, class is finalized. Enjoy 'seeing' enemies to death.
Thanks, everyone who contributed to this thing's growth. Really helped me.