3.5: Gotham City Villains

[USS Sorceror]

Something I've been wanting to do for a long time: Create 3.5 characters (most likely to be used as villains in my campaigns) based off of Batman villains. I've already seen a thread around here about a "Joker Bard" and I was wondering what the Playground could offer in terms of other villains, as I will admit to not being as imaginative or creative as most of the forum. More specifically I'm looking for ideas for these villains:
Mr. Freeze
Bane
Ra's Al Ghul
Two Face
The Riddler

[Arcanist]

Something I've been wanting to do for a long time: Create 3.5 characters (most likely to be used as villains in my campaigns) based off of Batman villains. I've already seen a thread around here about a "Joker Bard" and I was wondering what the Playground could offer in terms of other villains, as I will admit to not being as imaginative or creative as most of the forum. More specifically I'm looking for ideas for these villains:
Mr. Freeze
Bane
Ra's Al Ghul
Two Face
The Riddler

Mr. Freeze [Sorcerer/Frost Mage]

Bane [Barbarian/Frenzied Berzerker focused on Spellcaster disabling]

Ra's Al Ghul [See here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1179)]

Two Face [Paladin/Blackguard/Thrall of the Demogorgon]

The Riddler[True Namer because playing that class is honestly like solving a riddle on every round...]

[Waker]

Mr. Freeze [Sorcerer/Frost Mage]
Bane [Barbarian/Frenzied Berzerker focused on Spellcaster disabling]
Ra's Al Ghul [See here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1179)]
Two Face [Paladin/Blackguard/Thrall of the Demogorgon]
The Riddler[True Namer because playing that class is honestly like solving a riddle on every round...]

You make some interesting points, but I would tweak some of your suggestions a bit.

Mr. Freeze- Sorcerer/Frost Mage is a good choice, but as an alternative you could also go Cleric or Favored Soul into Witherhaunt of Iborighu since the last level actually changes his type into Elemental.
Bane- People tend to forget that while Bane is inhumanly strong, he also possesses a genius level intellect. While a Barbarian Rage might simulate the effects of his Venom, I think that Warblade might more appropriately act as his chassis. Can't think of where to go from there though.
Ra's Al Ghoul- Ra's is very much like the Batman himself. He's brilliant, patient and supremely talented in a number of fields. I would say that in order to simulate the similarities with Batman without just saying "Play a Wizard", Archivist or Erudite might be appropriate.
Two Face- Excellent suggestion on Thrall, I was struggling to recall that one. I would think that Shadowbane Inquisitor might be an alternative to Blackguard.
The Riddler- I was thinking of Truenamer as well. Hard to see him as being any kind of a threat to Batman though.

[Arcanist]

You make some interesting points, but I would tweak some of your suggestions a bit.

Mr. Freeze- Sorcerer/Frost Mage is a good choice, but as an alternative you could also go Cleric or Favored Soul into Witherhaunt of Iborighu since the last level actually changes his type into Elemental.
Bane- People tend to forget that while Bane is inhumanly strong, he also possesses a genius level intellect. While a Barbarian Rage might simulate the effects of his Venom, I think that Warblade might more appropriately act as his chassis. Can't think of where to go from there though.
Ra's Al Ghoul- Ra's is very much like the Batman himself. He's brilliant, patient and supremely talented in a number of fields. I would say that in order to simulate the similarities with Batman without just saying "Play a Wizard", Archivist or Erudite might be appropriate.
Two Face- Excellent suggestion on Thrall, I was struggling to recall that one. I would think that Shadowbane Inquisitor might be an alternative to Blackguard.
The Riddler- I was thinking of Truenamer as well. Hard to see him as being any kind of a threat to Batman though.

Mr. Freeze: I can't see Mr. Freeze taking time out of his day to pray to a God... How about we go half way and go Elemental Savant? :smallsmile: I'd like to see his build be Sorcerer/5 Frost Mage/5 Elemental Savant/10 I honestly just think he should have the Piercing cold granted by Frost Mage because it just completely over-rides all immunities (including the magical items that Batman might make :smallamused:) in addition to this he can alter all of his spells into Cold spells and then he can just bring you an ICE day :smallamused:

Bane: Hmm I've never read Batman comics so I must admit I'm not an expert.

Ra's Al Ghul: I know about Ra's Al Ghul :smallamused: Erudite would be perfect for Ra's StP Erudite might be a little bit more accurate. Ra's has had centuries upon centuries to prep his **** together... He is smart and he knows it, but somehow the Batman always emerges victorious :smallsmile: to say that Ra's would be a Straight Erudite seems a little... Silly... I want to say that he would be a Psionic Gish but eh...

Two Face: Yeah Shadowbane would be better actually :smallamused:


The Riddler: So we're in agreement. True Namer is so bad that it is the only possible class to fit the Riddler :smalltongue:

[Waker]

Mr. Freeze: I can't see Mr. Freeze taking time out of his day to pray to a God... How about we go half way and go Elemental Savant? :smallsmile: I'd like to see his build be Sorcerer/5 Frost Mage/5 Elemental Savant/10 I honestly just think he should have the Piercing cold granted by Frost Mage because it just completely over-rides all immunities (including the magical items that Batman might make :smallamused:) in addition to this he can alter all of his spells into Cold spells and then he can just bring you an ICE day :smallamused:

Bane: Hmm I've never read Batman comics so I must admit I'm not an expert.

Ra's Al Ghul: I know about Ra's Al Ghul :smallamused: Erudite would be perfect for Ra's StP Erudite might be a little bit more accurate. Ra's has had centuries upon centuries to prep his **** together... He is smart and he knows it, but somehow the Batman always emerges victorious :smallsmile: to say that Ra's would be a Straight Erudite seems a little... Silly... I want to say that he would be a Psionic Gish but eh...

Two Face: Yeah Shadowbane would be better actually :smallamused:


The Riddler: So we're in agreement. True Namer is so bad that it is the only possible class to fit the Riddler :smalltongue:
Mr. Freeze: Sorcerer/Frost Mage/Elemental Savant sounds respectable to me.
Bane: Bane can speak multiple languages, is considered an expert in several scientific fields, has a photographic memory and developed his own fighting style and calisthenics. It might sound silly, but what about Factotum/Warblade, but don't dump strength like people usually do? That could represent his broad intelligence combined with his physical prowess.
Ra's Al Ghoul: I don't know if StP Erudite would be appropriate, I think it would step on Batman's toes a bit much. What if we decide to theurge it up a bit with Erudite/Ur-Priest/Psionic Theurge?
Two-Face: Glad you agree with me.
The Riddler: I do feel sorry for Mr. Nigma.

[Arcanist]

Mr. Freeze: Sorcerer/Frost Mage/Elemental Savant sounds respectable to me.
Bane: Bane can speak multiple languages, is considered an expert in several scientific fields, has a photographic memory and developed his own fighting style and calisthenics. It might sound silly, but what about Factotum/Warblade, but don't dump strength like people usually do? That could represent his broad intelligence combined with his physical prowess.
Ra's Al Ghoul: I don't know if StP Erudite would be appropriate, I think it would step on Batman's toes a bit much. What if we decide to theurge it up a bit with Erudite/Ur-Priest/Psionic Theurge?
Two-Face: Glad you agree with me.
The Riddler: I do feel sorry for Mr. Nigma.

Mr. Freeze: Very good, consensus has been achieved.

Bane: Hmm... I want to say he'd be a Factotum/2 Wizard/3 Barbarian/1 Rage mage/9 Abjurant Champion/5 :smallamused: this build gives Bane 7th level spells he can rage as a Barbarian to stimulate his Venom, he is clearly a capable man, He takes the Mage slayer feats before he hits the Abjurant Champion capstone... Pretty neat...

Ra's Al Ghoul: Although I can imagine Ra's meditating for an hour before his Dual with the Dark Knight I just don't think that captures the polymath that is Ra's... But for now, I suppose that it works... The terrible thing is that A lot of Batman's villains are Polymaths... I guess that really shows how skilled Batman is :smallamused: There are so many things that are capable of being put into Ra's build but... damn only 20 levels... ah well :smalltongue:

[hushblade]

Just throwing out there that a changeling warshaper(probably starting from a barbarian with solid unarmed feats) is a wonderful clayface

[Waker]

Just throwing out there that a changeling warshaper(probably starting from a barbarian with solid unarmed feats) is a wonderful clayface

Could work, I kinda like the idea of Druid/Oozemaster (MotW).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I've always pictured Bane as a Warblade myself, but Factotum/Warblade is awesome for his swarthy sophistication and his mastery of multiple fields. I always thought the Bane Barbarian guide was fairly insulting to the original character both because it typecasts him based on just the way he fights in his least awesome appearances and because the recommended build doesn't have a prayer against Batman.

One of the biggest advantages Bane had in Nightfall was that his backstory made him a badass that was completely unknown to Batman. Therefore he should have lived his entire life shielded from Divination in a Planar city like Dispater's Iron City.

[USS Sorceror]

Man, you guys are harsh on poor Riddler. Though I must say I agree with you.

I hadn't even given thought to villains like Clayface. The only things I really have so far is Poison Ivy as a plant focused druid (though I'd like her to be something more, this is just a starting point) and Scarecrow as a wizard focused on fear effects. The trouble is in execution, I think. Any ideas for these two, now that a couple of the others have been settled?

[Waker]

I'm just making fun of Riddler because I can't really think of a way to utilize his talents. His big ability is telling riddles that detail where he is or what he plans on doing. How can you build around that?
As for Poison Ivy while Druid is the somewhat obvious choice, I'd think that Ranger could work, maybe even sprinkle in a little bit of Assassin. The abilities that I can remember were expertise in botany, crafting poison, being immune to poison, proficient with a crossbow and hand-to-hand and communication with various plant-life, as well as developing new plants.

There is a Scarecrow build around on the forum. I'm sure someone will link it later.

[jguy]

Riddler could be a factotum or a bard. He is actually quite intelligent and after he turned good he became a rather good detective. Also, during the Hush story arc, he was the mastermind behind it all and was one to figure out who Batman really was.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, the Riddler... once Batman has, you know, figured out his riddles, even normal police can take him down. He's not that much of a threat outside his intellect and the things he sets up.

[Waker]

I will admit my ignorance of Riddler's bio. I wanted to avoid making Mr. Nigma a Bard to make him different from Joker. Factotum is a possibility.
How about Beguiler taking levels in Cerebrex (Drg Comp.) The PrC is a half-caster with a ton of skill points and multiple Int-based bonuses, like gaining a circumstance bonus equal to class level to figure out a puzzle. The class also gives several detection abilities like Scent and Blindsense/Sight. Losing 5 caster levels would hurt a bit, but he isn't meant to be a direct challenge to Batman in terms of power.

[togapika]

What, no lover for killer croc?

[Waker]

I would make Killer Croc a Shifter Barbarian. Goliath with Willing Deformity (Bite) might also be appropriate. He would be required to take Rock Throwing though. That way when gathered around with the other big villains, he can tell them about the time he almost got Batman by throwing a rock at him.

[Talionis]

For Riddler maybe go divination and let him be really good to see the future and make outlandish planning.

[comicshorse]

No Penguin ? As the master crime lord please not as the fat guy with the gimmick umbrella's

[Arcanist]

For Riddler maybe go divination and let him be really good to see the future and make outlandish planning.

We're making Riddler Vecna-Blooded... Yes... YESSSSS!!! :smallamused:

This forces Batman to actually use his Knowledge skills instead of that Scry-and-die BS :smallamused:

[Zonugal]

You didn't specify levels or anything, so I'll just give you how I interpret these characters in six levels (within E6) as well as how I envision them in the fantasy model that is typically D&D.

Batman: Human Rogue 1/Urban Ranger 1/Artificer 3/Rogue 1
Alfred: Old-Aged Human Wizard 3
Robin: Human Rogue 2/Monk 2
Commissioner Gordon: Human Urban Ranger 3

The Joker: Vecna-Blooded Human Bard 6
Harley Quinn: Human Wizard 1/Rogue 3
Two-Face: Half-Orc Urban Ranger 1/Archivist 3/Church Inquisitor 2
Penguin: Middle-Aged Glacier Dwarf Rogue 1/Warlock 3/Artificer 1/Merchant Prince 1
The Riddler: Intellectual-Prodigy Human Artificer 3/Rogue 1/Combat Trapsmith 2
Mr. Freeze: Necropolitan Human Wizard 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 2
Catwoman: Human Rogue 5/Thief Acrobat 1
Ra's al Ghul: Vampire Human Human Paragon 1/Wizard 1/Human Paragon 2/Warblade 2
Bane: Swashbuckler 3/Barbarian 1/Warblade 2
Clayface: Half-Clay Golem Changeling Sneak Attack--Hit & Run--Zhen. Fighter 4/Warshaper 2
Killer Croc: Were-Crocodile Human Barbarian 3
Dr. Strange: Old-Aged Human Telepath 6
Poison Ivy: Volodni Avenging Druid 6
MadHatter: Gnome Beguiler 6
Scarecrow: Human Wizard 5/Rogue 1
Deadshot: Human Urban Ranger 1/Sneak Attack--Hit & Run Fighter 1/Warblade 4
Solomon Grundy: Death Knight Human Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6

[USS Sorceror]

Y'know, I was actually thinking that Combat Trapsmith would be a good class for Riddler...

And of course Croc should have some sort of rock throwing. "And then, I threw a rock at him!"

Also, I think it's more necessary for a build to reflect a particular character's abilities. Consider Ra's Al Ghul, a masterful warrior and brillian intellect. I don't think his race or class should be what makes him effectively immortal, as in the Bat Mythos he isn't immortal automatically. If there were a magic item that could make him immortal I think that would be more appropriate, while his class/race would reflect his abilities. (Worst comes to worst, I can make a homebrew Lazarus Pit).

And what would the Penguin be, to make him in running with some of the more powerful members, and possibly more intimidating? Let's face it, umbrellas are not the most impressive weapon of choice.

[Waker]

If you want Ra's Al Ghoul to be immortal without choosing a race or class to grant him the ability, you could take Wedded to History from Drg 354. It makes him agless and granting him some other special ability.

[Zonugal]

Y'know, I was actually thinking that Combat Trapsmith would be a good class for Riddler...

I think the main thing about the Riddler is traps. Towards Batman he should really be forcing him to be a master at disable device, search and any other convoluted skill to combat terrifying traps.


And of course Croc should have some sort of rock throwing. "And then, I threw a rock at him!"

If you merely make his race Goliath you can do so...


Also, I think it's more necessary for a build to reflect a particular character's abilities. Consider Ra's Al Ghul, a masterful warrior and brillian intellect. I don't think his race or class should be what makes him effectively immortal, as in the Bat Mythos he isn't immortal automatically. If there were a magic item that could make him immortal I think that would be more appropriate, while his class/race would reflect his abilities. (Worst comes to worst, I can make a homebrew Lazarus Pit).

I would agree. And regarding my decision to have Ra's al Ghul be a vampire I think that is just wanting to play around with the D&D setting. Ra's al Ghul is an immortal master assassin who commands an organization filled with some of the best assassins/ninjas/spies in the world. He's competent in several fields and in the martial ways. But he's also perhaps the greatest threat to Batman with his vast skills, talents and resources. I think in DnD the vampire template gives Ra's a lot of that thematic strength while also anchoring him in the world of DnD.


And what would the Penguin be, to make him in running with some of the more powerful members, and possibly more intimidating? Let's face it, umbrellas are not the most impressive weapon of choice.

Warlock can allow you to pick up invocations like:
Beguiling Influence: Gain a +6 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks.
Call of the Beast: Speak with animals and influence their behavior.
Summon Swarm: Use summon swarm as the spell.

Which allows the Penguin to be mystically charismatic, command animals (birds...) and to summon vermin (including a flock of doves or ravens with the rule in Tome of Magic). In addition you can pick up Craft Wondrous Item to make umbrellas and other magical items, because while he is dirty the Penguin is an inventive genius.