Need Assistance - Uncanny trickster build?

[Phan7om]

Hi guys and gals,

Alright here is the deal. I used to play AD&D with my father and uncle. Well then I switched to 3.0 and 3.5 with my buddies however, it has been years since I truly played. That little history aside I still know how to play the game...I am just very very rusty on some things.

Now I have always enjoyed playing rogues and fighters. More so rogues. However, this time around I want to play a rogue swashbuckler, but then I noticed the Uncanny Trickster PC. I must admit it looks kinda fun.


However, I do not know how to build it to be effective. Any and all advice would be much appreciated from a player that is looking to get back into the game.

I was thinking going rogue>swashbuckler>uncanny trickster. However I am not sure how many levels into rogue/sb are needed to be effective and which feats and such are needed. Lastly All 3.5 books are allowed and available.

-Yours truly,
Your friendly neighborhood backstabber-

[Waker]

Well, if you are interested in mixing Rogue and Swashbuckler, you should consider taking the Daring Outlaw feat also from Complete Scoundrel. You'll want to take three levels of Rogue and then from there on focus on Swashbuckler. Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2/Uncanny Trickster 3, then after that focus on taking more Swashbuckler or possibly another PrC if one catches your eye.

[Rhaegar14]

My obligatory favorite Swashbuckler build:

Human Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 5/Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler X, replace Swashbuckler levels with Uncanny Trickster if you must.

Take Able Learner (Races of Destiny) as one of your feats at first level, and essentially all Rogue class skills are class skills for the rest of time (any number of levels of Rogue increases the cap on those skills to 3+character level, and Able Learner allows you to purchase ranks in cross-class skills for 1 point).

Build for Two-Weapon Fighting, and take the feat Daring Outlaw out of Complete Scoundrel (the same book, I believe). Your Rogue and Swashbuckler levels now stack for Sneak Attack damage, and you can still freely take ranks in Rogue class skills. You are now effectively a Rogue who has traded in a couple skill points for full BAB and a d10 Hit Die.

At level 9, dip Swordsage out of Tome of Battle. Be sure to take Assassin's Stance for 2d6 extra Sneak Attack damage. Strongly consider Shadow Blade as well, which will give you Dex to damage with Short Swords and Daggers (among other weapons), though it will slow your TWF progression somewhat without a Fighter dip.

Sadly, Swordsage'd, albeit in less detail.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well, if you are interested in mixing Rogue and Swashbuckler, you should consider taking the Daring Outlaw feat also from Complete Scoundrel. You'll want to take three levels of Rogue and then from there on focus on Swashbuckler. Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 2/Uncanny Trickster 3, then after that focus on taking more Swashbuckler or possibly another PrC if one catches your eye.

Wait, what?

[Waker]

Wait, what?

Did I miss something? I said he should just take two levels of Swashbuckler until he meets the requirements for Uncanny Trickster and then after the PrC is finished he should take more Swashbuckler.

Edit:Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, I suppose it would be better to take the 3rd level of Swashbuckler to get Insightful Strike before taking Uncanny Trickster.

[Phan7om]

Thank you very much and yes I knew about the daring outlaw feat, I had been browsing through the complete scoundrel when I saw it, plus the little bit of info I did find all pointed to having that feat. Waker your help is much appreciated and pointed me a little better in the direction I was looking to go. Rhaegar14 I will also be looking into the sword sage. Any further advice/input is appreciated, and I think I have a better foot on what I want now.


Once again thanks!!

[Phan7om]

My obligatory favorite Swashbuckler build:

Human Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 5/Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler X, replace Swashbuckler levels with Uncanny Trickster if you must.

Take Able Learner (Races of Destiny) as one of your feats at first level, and essentially all Rogue class skills are class skills for the rest of time (any number of levels of Rogue increases the cap on those skills to 3+character level, and Able Learner allows you to purchase ranks in cross-class skills for 1 point).

Build for Two-Weapon Fighting, and take the feat Daring Outlaw out of Complete Scoundrel (the same book, I believe). Your Rogue and Swashbuckler levels now stack for Sneak Attack damage, and you can still freely take ranks in Rogue class skills. You are now effectively a Rogue who has traded in a couple skill points for full BAB and a d10 Hit Die.

At level 9, dip Swordsage out of Tome of Battle. Be sure to take Assassin's Stance for 2d6 extra Sneak Attack damage. Strongly consider Shadow Blade as well, which will give you Dex to damage with Short Swords and Daggers (among other weapons), though it will slow your TWF progression somewhat without a Fighter dip.

Sadly, Swordsage'd, albeit in less detail.

How do I get Assassins Stance as a lvl 1 swordsage...need to be lvl 3 dont you?

[Waker]

How do I get Assassins Stance as a lvl 1 swordsage...need to be lvl 3 dont you?

Half of non-initiator classes stack to determine what level abilities you have access to. In the example given, (3+5)/2=4 plus another 1 from Swordsage itself, for a total of 5 level initiator.

[Kuulvheysoon]

How do I get Assassins Stance as a lvl 1 swordsage...need to be lvl 3 dont you?

No you don't - you need an Initiator Level of 5. Which, according to the rules on multi-classing in the Bo9S could be any of the following:
Swordsage 5 Swordsage 1/Fighter 8 Fighter 10 (with a Shadow Hand Martial Study feat and the Martial Stance feat at 10th)


Bo9S is excellent for multi-classing because each non-initiating HD gives you an effective 1/2 IL. In other words, for each pair of HD you get that's not included in the Bo9S, your IL goes up by one.

[killianh]

If you want something particularly flavourful while still effective how about Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 3/Factotum 3/uncanny trickster 1/Legacy Champion 10

Both Uncanny Trickster/Legacy Champion have the same idea of increasing a previously existing class so you can use Legacy champion to increase uncanny trickster to increase any of the other classes while picking up the bonus skill tricks. The only (potential) problem is that you need to have a Legacy weapon. If you drop the Swashbuckler, Rogue, or Factotum for Swordsage there are a few nice one's you can try to get.

Factotum is in Dungeonscape and Legacy Champion is in Weapons of Legacy if you feel like looking into it

[Phan7om]

Thanks again :) PS Waker you are awesome :)

[Waker]

Thanks again :) PS Waker you are awesome :)

Well thank you, but more credit should probably be directed at Kuulvheysoon and Rhaegar14. They were the ones that actually detailed builds, I was simply faster than they.

[Phan7om]

I actually would like to throw out an extra thanks to Rhaegar14 and Kuulvheysoon as well...I reread what all of you said, and I can say 100% that I fully understand now...took a bit as I am still newb lvl (imo) mainly because I only played 3.0 and 3.5 with the basic books before. However, as I said reread everything and now I am looking forward to this as well.

Probably going to follow the build Rhaegar outlined. I havent decided if I want to go the route of UT anymore...but I am digging the swashbuckler/rogue build so far :)


Once again ty guys...love these forums :)

[Kuulvheysoon]

I actually would like to throw out an extra thanks to Rhaegar14 and Kuulvheysoon as well...I reread what all of you said, and I can say 100% that I fully understand now...took a bit as I am still newb lvl (imo) mainly because I only played 3.0 and 3.5 with the basic books before. However, as I said reread everything and now I am looking forward to this as well.

Probably going to follow the build Rhaegar outlined. I havent decided if I want to go the route of UT anymore...but I am digging the swashbuckler/rogue build so far :)


Once again ty guys...love these forums :)

No problem - everybody's new at some point or another.

Hope to see you around.