Good news on the Turtle front?

[Mordar]

Well, I think it's good news (http://movies.msn.com/paralleluniverse/paramount-shuts-down-ninja-turtle-reboot/story/) anyway...

The non-teenage, non-mutant, space alien turtle-shaped martial arts fighters may be shelved long enough for reason to win out and the story return to something near close to in the same area code as the real TMNT...

...or maybe its just more of Paramount having movie troubles.

[Bhu]

A lot of enormously expensive effects driven films are bombing and it's giving the studios pause.

[Lateral]

A lot of enormously expensive effects driven films are bombing and it's giving the studios pause.

And this is a good thing. Maybe they'll start to realize that those effect-driven films are boring without real plots, and that people are sick of them.

[Bhu]

And this is a good thing. Maybe they'll start to realize that those effect-driven films are boring without real plots, and that people are sick of them.

Sadly no. Lots of them are being re-shot in last minute panics as studios try to figure out why their carefully tailored would be blockbusters are bombing and reconfiguring them to get audiences to show up. The Lone Ranger halved its budget to a mere 250 million by removing a plot involving werewolves for example. The success of ultra expensive films like the LOTR trilogy and Avatar made studios think that success could be easily repeated via formula and they're stunned that it's not so easy.

[Lateral]

Sadly no. Lots of them are being re-shot in last minute panics as studios try to figure out why their carefully tailored would be blockbusters are bombing and reconfiguring them to get audiences to show up. The Lone Ranger halved its budget to a mere 250 million by removing a plot involving werewolves for example. The success of ultra expensive films like the LOTR trilogy and Avatar made studios think that success could be easily repeated via formula and they're stunned that it's not so easy.

Well. Screw Hollywood, then.

[Starscream]

Well. Screw Hollywood, then.

I hear the reason GI Joe got pushed back to 2013 is that they didn't want it to release in a summer that would feature Batman, Spider-Man, and The Avengers.

Avengers rocked, and I see no reason to think those other ones will be bad, but I guess you can only have so many "big" movies per year. Most people aren't interested in going to the movies every week, so a single summer can only support so many blockbusters.

[thegurullamen]

It's got to be internal politics. Michael Bay and mindless action always equal money. His only failures come from when he tried to do something that was more artsy (relative to his work)--The Island. This is still good news, but I don't take it as a windfall for artistic skill in Hollywood.

Also, werewolves in Lone Ranger? I wish I could register a sigh here, but I just don't have enough respect for the Hollywood process left in me. Studio heads need to bring in new producers.

[Jayngfet]

Sadly no. Lots of them are being re-shot in last minute panics as studios try to figure out why their carefully tailored would be blockbusters are bombing and reconfiguring them to get audiences to show up. The Lone Ranger halved its budget to a mere 250 million by removing a plot involving werewolves for example. The success of ultra expensive films like the LOTR trilogy and Avatar made studios think that success could be easily repeated via formula and they're stunned that it's not so easy.

It's more than just a movie thing, I mean just look at how EA is doing to see the notions of what was considered "winning formula", and how that's panning out. Heck, just look at how Nick took heavy ratings drops after relying on just their best three or four shows to carry them for so long.

Hopefully this is the part where the projects like Ninja Turtles and Akira get shelved. These things have gotten so much bad buzz around them for so long that they'll be lucky to make back their budget after the theater takes it's cut, let alone once you add marketing costs.

[Soras Teva Gee]

It's got to be internal politics. Michael Bay and mindless action always equal money.

He was only producing right? There's a usually big difference between producer and director as far as the final product's artistic direction.

[Bhu]

It's got to be internal politics. Michael Bay and mindless action always equal money. His only failures come from when he tried to do something that was more artsy (relative to his work)--The Island. This is still good news, but I don't take it as a windfall for artistic skill in Hollywood.

Also, werewolves in Lone Ranger? I wish I could register a sigh here, but I just don't have enough respect for the Hollywood process left in me. Studio heads need to bring in new producers.

SInce the Lone Ranger used silver bullets and they wanted to go with the mystical approach it seemed like a fit to somebody. As it is now, Tanto is actually the smart one and the Ranger is his delusionary sidekick.




Hopefully this is the part where the projects like Ninja Turtles and Akira get shelved. These things have gotten so much bad buzz around them for so long that they'll be lucky to make back their budget after the theater takes it's cut, let alone once you add marketing costs.

They don't take much of a cut. Wanna know why your popcorn is so expensive? Cause its the only way the theaters survive. The first week a film is released 90% of the box office goes to the studio, the theater gets the other 10% minus the cost of renting the film. Sometimes they only get 5%. It goes up bit by bit but for a theater to get a larger percentage than the studio requires a film to be showing longer than 4 weeks.



He was only producing right? There's a usually big difference between producer and director as far as the final product's artistic direction.

Even as producer Bey is well known for interfering in the production of his films. Someone else may be directing, but it's still his baby

[thegurullamen]

He was only producing right? There's a usually big difference between producer and director as far as the final product's artistic direction.

Well in that case, it makes a lot more sense. Bay can't produce worth crap. Even the studio heads agree with this.

[Mordar]

This appears to be much more of a Paramount thing than an action-movie issue, or special-effects issue...I don't know if the "move it to March because Hunger Games made huge numbers with a March release" line works any better than "we want to up the 3D quality so it'll make more international money" claim.

They've been doing a lot of shuffling on their releases, and have appearantly had questions about their "pipeline"...wonder how it'll shake out.

- M

[Bhu]

Some reading for everyone:

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/6-things-the-film-industry-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about.php

http://www.rd.com/slideshows/13-things-a-movie-theater-employee-won%E2%80%99t-tell-you/

I agree with the bit about Paramount. They've made some awful decisions this year.

[Jayngfet]

They don't take much of a cut. Wanna know why your popcorn is so expensive? Cause its the only way the theaters survive. The first week a film is released 90% of the box office goes to the studio, the theater gets the other 10% minus the cost of renting the film. Sometimes they only get 5%. It goes up bit by bit but for a theater to get a larger percentage than the studio requires a film to be showing longer than 4 weeks.


That's the point. If say, the Sorcerer's Apprentice can make 200 million with a 150 million budget and little bad press, that means Disney is making 20-30 million in profits before you account for marketing costs. Once you account for other films like John Carter, which made about 30 million more than it's budget but Disney can claim about 200 million from the Box Office was lost it's obvious a project as big as this will need to make much, much more than it's budget to be really successful.

However, we all know that really won't happen. This movie has gotten so much bad buzz around it that it's never going to work on the level it needs to. It might make it's budget back, but that's about it. It's going up against Spiderman, a Marvel movie, and Planet of the apes even in it's apparent pushed back slot.

[Dragosai]

He was only producing right? There's a usually big difference between producer and director as far as the final product's artistic direction.

I see this a lot so I like to shine a light on it;

Most often* the producer(s) have more final control over a movie than the director.

Bay was pretty vocal about the stuff he wanted in the movie and it was all just rubbish.

This is great news as I would rather there be no Turtles movie vs a Bay travesty of a film.

*There are always exceptions were "control" is given totally to the director or even sometimes one of the actors.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I see this a lot so I like to shine a light on it;

Most often* the producer(s) have more final control over a movie than the director.

Bay was pretty vocal about the stuff he wanted in the movie and it was all just rubbish.

This is great news as I would rather there be no Turtles movie vs a Bay travesty of a film.

*There are always exceptions were "control" is given totally to the director or even sometimes one of the actors.

Yeah but its at a degree of removal from the product. They say cut X scene or minutes so it can be shorter or be under PG-13 and so forth. As they are the bank of course they have approval over the material shown... BUT they by nature are not creating that material directly.

Now that's not going to mean say for here the Turtle weren't going to be aliens... but it means everything as far as style and delievery. As producer Bay can say in preproduction "We need explosions" but the director is still only going to shoot a finite number and unless Bay is willing to expend the extra money he can't go "IT NEEDS MORE EXPLOSIONS!!!!" beyond a certain point. The style of the movie will always reflect the director. Which is why someone producing is not the name draw a director is.

Yes the Turtles would still be aliens, but you know what... that was always irrelevant. Seriously the Turtles concept has seen stranger things, the old cartoon was centered around an inter-dimensional invader right? To say nothing of the stuff that went down in the later cartoon. A detail in conception says very little about the final product, it could be a few lines of dialogue, half the first act, or the center of the entire film.

[Dragosai]

Yeah but its at a degree of removal from the product. They say cut X scene or minutes so it can be shorter or be under PG-13 and so forth. As they are the bank of course they have approval over the material shown... BUT they by nature are not creating that material directly.

Now that's not going to mean say for here the Turtle weren't going to be aliens... but it means everything as far as style and delievery. As producer Bay can say in preproduction "We need explosions" but the director is still only going to shoot a finite number and unless Bay is willing to expend the extra money he can't go "IT NEEDS MORE EXPLOSIONS!!!!" beyond a certain point. The style of the movie will always reflect the director. Which is why someone producing is not the name draw a director is.

Yes the Turtles would still be aliens, but you know what... that was always irrelevant. Seriously the Turtles concept has seen stranger things, the old cartoon was centered around an inter-dimensional invader right? To say nothing of the stuff that went down in the later cartoon. A detail in conception says very little about the final product, it could be a few lines of dialogue, half the first act, or the center of the entire film.

All good points. But the alien thing....ugh see I can understand it not being that big of a deal. But it not being "a big deal" is kinda what makes it a big deal.

OK yeah I know that made no sense. I'll explain or try to. Everyone knows the basic origin behind the turtles, can you hand wave it away and just go hey look aliens? Sure but why? It takes the mutant out of the very title of the thing.

If it does not really matter so much to the rest of the story if they are mutant turtles or aliens then why change it at all?

For me it just boils down to my old hatred of Hollywood taking things that have a following and thinking they must make it new and different to make money off it. They don't we want what we know and love, give us more of it just how it is and we will eat it up.

I'll leave this here as to my final reason why this minor change mutant to alien is such a lame thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk

[Soras Teva Gee]

OK yeah I know that made no sense. I'll explain or try to. Everyone knows the basic origin behind the turtles, can you hand wave it away and just go hey look aliens? Sure but why? It takes the mutant out of the very title of the thing.

Well as for the idea itself its not all that insensible. The mutant part is not really all that integral, I've always heard Ninja Turtles more often then anything else. Its really just why are they humanoid turtles? Frankly aliens are just as fantastic an explanation, I can see the arbitrary opinion that its makes more sense as being considered better for that basic question.

And diving a little farther it lets the Turtles have a deeper history then "turtles that fell into ooze" since you can have previous generations of a people. For example maybe the Turtles race have been visiting Earth for awhile and are responsible for Japanese Kappa legends. It frankly rather shores up the Japanese connections that inevitably show up. I never heard how Splinter was going to be handle under this idea, but aliens would allow and entire world of anthropomorphic animals so you wouldn't need a separate explanation.

Not that I trust Michael Bay to deliver on the potential of the idea, but then again I've never like the idea of live-action turtles period so its anything I'd like is far from his style. But the idea itself is frankly not so unconscionable once you control the knee-jerk.

(Much better then a giant spider really)

[Mordar]

Yes the Turtles would still be aliens, but you know what... that was always irrelevant.


All good points. But the alien thing....ugh see I can understand it not being that big of a deal. But it not being "a big deal" is kinda what makes it a big deal.

OK yeah I know that made no sense. I'll explain or try to. Everyone knows the basic origin behind the turtles, can you hand wave it away and just go hey look aliens? Sure but why? It takes the mutant out of the very title of the thing.

If it does not really matter so much to the rest of the story if they are mutant turtles or aliens then why change it at all?


Well as for the idea itself its not all that insensible. The mutant part is not really all that integral, I've always heard Ninja Turtles more often then anything else. Its really just why are they humanoid turtles? Frankly aliens are just as fantastic an explanation, I can see the arbitrary opinion that its makes more sense as being considered better for that basic question.

And diving a little farther it lets the Turtles have a deeper history then "turtles that fell into ooze" since you can have previous generations of a people. For example maybe the Turtles race have been visiting Earth for awhile and are responsible for Japanese Kappa legends. It frankly rather shores up the Japanese connections that inevitably show up. I never heard how Splinter was going to be handle under this idea, but aliens would allow and entire world of anthropomorphic animals so you wouldn't need a separate explanation.

Although it may seem a stretch, the non-alien angle is important because it made the characters somewhat relatable to the pre-teen/tween/early teens watching and reading them when they first landed in the mainstream (way back in the 80s before we used the word "tween"!). There was a reason they loved pizza, and skateboarding, and sarcastic chatter...it's because they're teenagers just like I'll be soon (thinks the 12 year-old watching them after school). Sure, they are antropomorphic turtle ninjas, but what 12-year-old didn't want to be a ninja so he could handle the bullies that made fun of him for liking comics? It was important that they weren't just some uber-fighters from Planet Amphibia because, frankly, Superman has that covered.

Now, if they did do the "aliens landed in ancient times, inspiring legends" and Leo, Raph, Don and Mikey are teenage aliens...maybe even the last of their line, having to hide out in sewers...then that might be fine (or better!)...but if they just crash landed and are going to have a fight with some critters that were chasing them...well, I already spent ~6 hours of my life on watching Michael Bay's version of that story with trucks.

- M

[Traab]

Now, if they did do the "aliens landed in ancient times, inspiring legends" and Leo, Raph, Don and Mikey are teenage aliens...maybe even the last of their line, having to hide out in sewers...then that might be fine (or better!)...but if they just crash landed and are going to have a fight with some critters that were chasing them...well, I already spent ~6 hours of my life on watching Michael Bay's version of that story with trucks.


This, This I agree with so much. The idea of a bunch of turtle looking humanoid aliens just happening to crash land on earth as masters of an alien martial art that is somehow identical to ninjutsu, its just plain silly. If they are the last remnants of an alien group that has been on earth for generations, has fueled mythological lore in places like japan, and have always respected that history, which is why they are ninjas or something like that, I could overlook the alien aspect. I would still prefer mutants just because they are teenage MUTANT ninja turtles, but I could live with it if the backstory was good. One final note on why crash landing aliens would be stupid. If they have intergalactic technology, why the hell are they using swords and nunchucks? Did their entire ship dissolve or something that they cant harvest some blasters from the wreckage? Or even jerry rig something from the ruins?

[Bhu]

Has no one here read the original comics?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Although it may seem a stretch, the non-alien angle is important because it made the characters somewhat relatable...

Nothing in there is anything other then personalities traits that have nothing to do with conceptual origins.

[thompur]

Has no one here read the original comics?

I remember purchasing the original comics back in the early '80's! They were fun! And inspired a whole sub-genre of parody comics including:

Pre-teen Dirty Gene Kung-Fu Kangaroos
Adolecent Radioactive Blackbelt Hamsters
and one about Elephants. Can't recall the name right now.

[Ravens_cry]

And don't forget the PnP RPG (http://tmnt.wikia.com/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_%26_Other_Strangeness )!
I like toitles, but not Teenage Alien Invading Ninja Turtles.

[Lord Seth]

Although it may seem a stretch, the non-alien angle is important because it made the characters somewhat relatable to the pre-teen/tween/early teens watching and reading them when they first landed in the mainstream (way back in the 80s before we used the word "tween"!). There was a reason they loved pizza, and skateboarding, and sarcastic chatter...it's because they're teenagers just like I'll be soon (thinks the 12 year-old watching them after school).Honestly, the "teenage" angle was a nonentity for me. They could've been in their 20's or 30's for all I cared. They honestly felt a lot more like adults (not particularly mature ones, but adults nonetheless) than actual teenagers. If not for the "teenage" part in the title, I would've put them a little past their teens if I had to characterize them.

[Man on Fire]

I thought funny thing - if they wanted to make another gritty remake of old cartoon with antrophomorphic animals and wanted aliens and lots of action, why not just make movie out of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJPYmd8_Qdw)? Honestly, I can see bay attached to this cartoon, rather than TMNT, it has everything he likes so much - action, explosions, cool vehlices and even hot girl who is a mechanic.

[kpenguin]

I'm probably the only one who clicked on this thread thinking it was about the conservation of sea turtles, wasn't I?

[turkishproverb]

Yes, you're the only one, but good wishes for thinking that *Hugs*


Now, let's just hope the film is delayed until Bay is off of it and the alien thing is removed.