Human Bard 3 with a 8th lv spell slot what now?

[Malroth]

A human Bard who takes Heighten spell and Talfirian Song at lv 1, could when he reaches lv 3 cast a lv 1 spell heightened to lv 9 thus allowing him to gain a lv 8 spell slot if he took the Extra Slot feat. The question is what good could this bizzare rules quirk do him.

[Acanous]

if a bard gets spell slots above 6th, and gains a spell KNOWN of a level above 6th, tHEN they can cast it.

a sorceror with an 8th level slot at lv 3 is a sad panda. Same for the bard.

[Glimbur]

Take a Reserve Feat. It will be a little tricky qualifying for one with only first level bard spells, but I suspect you could pull something off. Then you can throw 8d6 whatever damage all day, which is kind of good at third level.

[NilOriol]

aren't there ways to get a spell known, in those lvls?
it was kinda funny :(

[Eiko]

Take Mother Cyst to gain all of those spells added to your spells known?

[Morph Bark]

Such a high spell slot at such a low level is useless to a class that doesn't get spells known that high, unless you can take a feat to get that, like a Bloodline feat (DMC) or Mother Cyst or something.

Otherwise it would be only useful for full-list casters like Beguiler/DN/Warmage, if they have a way to get such a high slot that early.

[Kish]

A human Bard who takes Heighten spell and Talfirian Song at lv 1, could when he reaches lv 3 cast a lv 1 spell heightened to lv 9 thus allowing him to gain a lv 8 spell slot if he took the Extra Slot feat. The question is what good could this bizzare rules quirk do him.
Does "The DM throwing a DMG at you if you attempt to take advantage of this exploit" count as good?

[Bloodgruve]

Ways to add spells to your list...
*Dragon Mag Blooodline feats
*Arcane Disciple, need Wisdom of 18 for 8th level spells
*Get a spellbook via Wizard/Archivist/Magical Training and record a spell into it,
*Drake Helm..

These don't give you means to cast them or the ability to access them(other than Drake Helm) without help though. I am not sure but I don't think a spontaneous caster even has access to the spells on their list without the correct class level.. For example a spontaneous caster with Versatile Spellcaster that can cast 2 3rd level spells can't access his 4th level list unless he is of correct level IIRC. Although this may be different for classes like Beguiler where you can cast all the spells on your list.

A Wizard1/BardX can 'know' a 9th level Wiz/Sorc spell if he successfully records it into his spellbook with a high spellcraft check but that wouldn't put the spell on your bard list. In this case you would use Versatile Spellcaster to get to the spellbook spells by burning your bard slots. This is where you could cast a spell of 1 level higher than you have available as a spontaneous caster. But that doesn't help you here..

For 85K you could buy a single slot Drake Helm from Explorer's Handbook Eberron which you could 'gem' up to get any 8th level arcane spell to your known list. You could then cast it with your spell slot. I like the idea of the Reserve Feat in conjunction with this but its pretty costly at 3rd level and Extra Slot requires 4th level minimum. Actually, you could get all 8th level arcane spells 'gemmed' up for 84k each and just switch um out when you want or even get more slots on the helm.

I'm sure there are better ways to mess with this.

GL
Blood~

[Glimbur]

Such a high spell slot at such a low level is useless to a class that doesn't get spells known that high, unless you can take a feat to get that, like a Bloodline feat (DMC) or Mother Cyst or something.

Nonsense! You already have Heighten Spell, so the least you can do is cast a 1st level spell with a +7 DC. That's slightly good.

You might also qualify for PrCs that require "able to cast X level spells". You can cast a lower level spell from a higher level slot, and Heighten actually increases the spell level so you can cast spells with a level 0-8, inclusive. You might need to cheat skill rank requirements: Barghest/Dusk Giant + Psychic Reformation + negative levels should do it but will require NPC spellcasting.

As I already mentioned, Reserve Feats when you next get a feat. That's probably level 6, which makes it less impressive. Flaws/elf + Dark Chaos Shuffle might make it work out better.

Of course this sort of thing deserves thrown DMG's. TO isn't for real games. It's just for fun.

[Ashtagon]

I'm pretty sure those feats don't work the way you think they do.

At best at character level 3, you can heighten an illusion school spell to 4th level by burning all your bardic music for the day.

It's still only effective level though, not actual level. As far as Extra Slot is concerned, you still can only cast a 1st level spell.

[Pyromancer999]

Wait a second. I may be wrong on metamagic, but if you heighten a 1st level spell to 8th level, don't you need an 8th level spell slot to cast it? And I don't think just because you can heighten a spell to a certain level means you can get a spell and/or spell slot of that level.

[Little Brother]

It's still only effective level though, not actual level. As far as Extra Slot is concerned, you still can only cast a 1st level spell.Actually, Heighten(And Heighten alone), does work this way.

"...Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies...

Wait a second. I may be wrong on metamagic, but if you heighten a 1st level spell to 8th level, don't you need an 8th level spell slot to cast it? And I don't think just because you can heighten a spell to a certain level means you can get a spell and/or spell slot of that level.Tal-whatchamacallit Song, for a human, works like DMM.

Premise of the Bardzilla (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8595585).

Really, though Clerics and Wizards can do this better, too. Earth Spell is pro, by the way. Using flaws, at level 3, you have 9th-level bard slot.

[Ashtagon]

Actually, Heighten(And Heighten alone), does work this way.

"...Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies...
Tal-whatchamacallit Song, for a human, works like DMM.


For the sake of hurrying the discussions along, I'll let that one slip by. However, since a level 3 bard has only 3 uses of bardic music per day, he still can't use those metamagic feats to boost the spell to higher than 4th level. No 8th level spells here I'm afraid.

[Pyromancer999]

Tal-whatchamacallit Song, for a human, works like DMM.

What's DMM?

[VGLordR2]

What's DMM?

Divine Metamagic.

[Little Brother]

For the sake of hurrying the discussions along, I'll let that one slip by. However, since a level 3 bard has only 3 uses of bardic music per day, he still can't use those metamagic feats to boost the spell to higher than 4th level. No 8th level spells here I'm afraid.Extra music, masterwork lute, and I got nothing else. Unless the OP figured some way around that. Vest of Legends, if you totally ignore WBL?

Yet another reason clerics are superior.:smallsigh:

[Ashtagon]

Extra music, masterwork lute, and I got nothing else. Unless the OP figured some way around that. Vest of Legends, if you totally ignore WBL?

Yet another reason clerics are superior.:smallsigh:

The build already used all three feats available for the level 3 human bard, so no Extra Music. Masterwork lute doesn't give additional uses of bardic music, which is needed to power that feat. Ditto for vest of legends.

Ehh, my eyes missed the fact that the build has Extra Music, so an effective level 8 heightened spell is possible at ECL 3. Those two pieces of equipment still make no difference though.

But since the build has now used all 3 feats available at level 3, where is he getting the feat choice for the Extra Slot feat suggested at 3rd level?

Also, Extra Slot has a prereq of spellcaster level 4. No way a bard 3 is getting that.

And I'm still throwing multiple books at any player who tries this.

[Yora]

Just get that candle of invocation and be done with it. :smallamused:

[StreamOfTheSky]

Heighten Summon Monster I up to 8th level, perhaps? Being able to summon a Large elemental infinite times per day would be pretty nice at level 3 (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/summon-elemental--2833/).

[Ashtagon]

Heighten Summon Monster I up to 8th level, perhaps? Being able to summon a Large elemental infinite times per day would be pretty nice at level 3 (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/summon-elemental--2833/).

The specific heightening trick in the OP only works for illusion school spells.

[Little Brother]

The build already used all three feats available for the level 3 human bard, so no Extra Music. Masterwork lute doesn't give additional uses of bardic music, which is needed to power that feat. Ditto for vest of legends.

Ehh, my eyes missed the fact that the build has Extra Music, so an effective level 8 heightened spell is possible at ECL 3. Those two pieces of equipment still make no difference though.

But since the build has now used all 3 feats available at level 3, where is he getting the feat choice for the Extra Slot feat suggested at 3rd level?

Also, Extra Slot has a prereq of spellcaster level 4. No way a bard 3 is getting that.

And I'm still throwing multiple books at any player who tries this.Oh, yeah. Bards need to work to have CL 5+ above their level.

The only way to work this kind of build is on a cleric, sad to say.