Anybody else dislike Scott Pilgrim?

[pita]

First off, I apologize if there's going to be a flame war. I will be civil, aided by the fact that my posting power is mostly limited.
But...
I don't like Scott Pilgrim. The movie, that is. I haven't read the comic. I didn't hate it, I just felt awkward watching it, and didn't enjoy myself.
Now, I'm not saying it doesn't have any good parts. Pretty much everything involving Brandon Routh was brilliant, and some of the Michael Cera bits were also very clever ("I'm getting a life", and the callback later, were both funny, and the passwords required to get to Gideon's party), but the movie felt like it was trying too hard to be witty. Contrasted with Shaun of the Dead or Hot Fuzz, which actually were witty, it's pretty much a failure.
The main character is an unlikable ****, which I don't actually mind. Most movie protagonists are, and it's not a big deal. The problem is that everyone is unlikable. Ramona and Knives particularly so, each because of their own extreme.
But the thing that really bugged me was the fact that the movie made me feel bad for watching it. The "video game" bits were stupid, and would make more sense in a bad Mortal Kombat parody than anywhere else. The insistence that everything had a comic book effect was pure gimmick. Adding "ding dong" to a bell ringing adds absolutely nothing to the movie, especially when combined with Edgar Wright's natural camera tricks, which draw enough attention to themselves without help. Wright's film technique in general feels like someone is in love with editing technology, too much so to make an actual film, but it works in his other movies. The perfect example of feeling stupid to watch the movie was the lesbian's battle. "Bi-Furious" would work if you're lampooning something, but the joke appeared to be meant taken at face value. That, as well as the mock-Bollywood sequence, both just made me feel awkward in my seat.
I can't describe the movie much better than "A series of gimmicks masquerading as a movie". I'd blame the comic on this, and in fact it probably does deserve a lot of blame, but this is one of the most indulgent, overly tricked out movies I've ever seen, and I'm a Tarantino fan. I frickin loved Kill Bill. I can put up with a lot of "look at what an editing genius I am and LOOK AT MY MOVIE IT IS SEXIER THAN YOURS", but I have my limits. And Scott Pilgrim bulldozed through them while telling people to look at it.
The Brandon Routh bits, while suffering from all of the things I mentioned, have some excellent lines, so they're mostly forgiven the flaws, not to mention that by that point of the movie I was getting used to seeing sound effects for sounds.
Why, tell me, does everyone think it's a great movie?

[ThePhantasm]

I can't describe the movie much better than "A series of gimmicks masquerading as a movie".

I pretty much agree with this. I also think the movie tries so desperately hard to be clever at points that it just comes off as pretentious.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I do agree with some of what you said. Most of the main characters are unlikable. The drummer girl annoyed me to no end. I understand being snarky and using dark humor, but she took it too far. Knives was a neat character - very underused in the movie. As was Brandon Rouths character.

It is not a "great" movie, but it is fun action. It's not something that I would call deep.

[Dr.Epic]

I've yet to seen the film so I can't really way in. It is though a movie that's on my list of stuff I want to see. Maybe I'll netflix it in the next few days or actually go out and rent a DVD of it.

[AtlanteanTroll]

The comics bored me and the art wasn't all that good. I didn't even bother with the movie. So no. You are not the only one.

[Science Officer]

I know how you feel. I rather liked it, but all my friends thought it was the best thing ever. It's okay for other people to like things that you dislike or dislike things that you like, but sometimes it does get annoying hearing their opinions.

I also found Scott somewhat unlikeable, but that didn't bother me. And while some of a lot of the jokes fell flat for me, there were a lot more that worked.

The comic-book-y, video-game-y, and weird editing gave the whole thing a kind of unreal atmosphere. Tvtropes described it as "video games realism" (after the "magical realism" style) which I thought was particularly apt.
I liked how it sometimes managed to be ridiculous and deadpan at the same time. Like the scene where Scott is trying to escape from his apartment, or at the first battle of the bands, when Ramona explains her relationship with the first Ex. The fight stops, the spotlight focuses on her and the entire building seems to pay attention, and she comes forward and tells the story. It's ridiculous, but rather earnest.

I also liked the little Canadian touches, Pizza Pizza, Sealtest milk, the enemies bursting into loonies and toonies, and "They make movies in Toronto?"

But yeah, I can see what you mean, if you were expecting it to be like Sean of the Dead or Hot Fuzz it would be a real let down.

[Mauve Shirt]

Nowhere near as clever and witty as Sean of the Dead or Hot Fuzz (I don't know why you chose to compare it to those two), and Michael Cera plays Michael Cera being Michael Cera, but I enjoyed the movie anyway.

[Jaros]

Nowhere near as clever and witty as Sean of the Dead or Hot Fuzz (I don't know why you chose to compare it to those two)

All three directed by Edgar Wright.

I liked it, but not as much as many of my friends, and I can understand people not liking it.

[pita]

Nowhere near as clever and witty as Sean of the Dead or Hot Fuzz (I don't know why you chose to compare it to those two), and Michael Cera plays Michael Cera being Michael Cera, but I enjoyed the movie anyway.

I saw it before seeing either of those. I'm comparing because it's the same director, and it's very much in the same style of "let's be as clever as possible". It's just that those two movies work very well, and Scott Pilgrim fails. They both maintain an unreal atmosphere using nothing but ridiculously fast paced editing. Pilgrim has that, but it also has the video game atmosphere, the comic book atmosphere, and the ludicrous plot in addition. It's overkill.

[Lothston]

I liked the movie. Immensely funny, dynamic, and doesn't take itself seriously.

It feels more like an anime than a movie anyway (the flashy kind of anime, not the serious kind). The "gimmicks" are actually where its heart's at.

If you start taking it too seriously though, e.g. by comparing it to big films by big directors (like Tarantino), then it's probably not for you.

Shaun of the Dead was on par; Hot Fuzz I enjoyed less than S.P.

It boils down to a person's background and tastes in the end.

[Manga Shoggoth]

My old English teacher spake thusly: "It is all right to hate Shakespeare, provided you can tell me why you hate Shakespeare". I disagree with you about the film, but your reasons are well stated.

I rather liked it. It isn't high art, deep adventure or anything else. It is just a film based on a comic.

It helped that I had read (and liked) the comic. Amusingly, I was originally put off the comic simply because if the artisitc style, but once I was past that the comic itself was quite good.

The film is a good adaptation of the comic. A lot of the style came through, and lets face it, neither are particularly serious. I thought the film played to the strengths of the medium very well. Of course, there were things that the film did better than the comic (The Amazon package, Julie, the fight with the Twins and the musical numbers), and some things that were better in the comic (largely the detail in the relationships, NegaScott and The Boys and Crash).

(..And as for adaptation, someone on the board posted a wonderful explanation as to why comic!Scott ended up with the Power of Understanding, and film!Scott ended up with the Power of Self-Respect.)

Yes, Scott (and the others) are a bit immature - but then most of the story is about them (scot especially) growing up. This comes over somewhat better in the comic.

[Emmerask]

I friend of mine recommended me that movie (because it has all those amazing game references and is totally awesome and funny...) laughed not once, didn´t like the gaming references, hated every character in that movie...

I HATED every single second of that movie (the 40 min I watched it until skipping through the fight scenes).
And even with skipping through it the shaky 1000 million cut new camera angle etc really annoyed me, and the fight scenes where merely avg tbh.

so no I do not dislike the movie, I hate it with a passion ^^

/edit though for the fight scenes, I watched Kung Fu Hustle before which had amazing!!! over the top fights so maybe I was a bit biased towards the fighting sequences ^^

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Anybody else dislike Scott Pilgrim?
Nope. Saw it twice in theaters, devoured the books. Also I disagree with whoever said the drawing was bad in the comics. I put it above Hot Fuzz but under Shaun of the Dead in my list of favorite movies ever.

[JustSomeGuy]

I'd heard from several sources that it was a uniquely funny and heartwarming tale, a future classic, etc. So i got it on dvd and my wife and i settled into the sofa to watch it.

The characters were almost all a***holes, but not in a funny 'hey watch this' kinda way, just mopey, whiney sadsacks. Also, the story didn't make much sense - guy is embarrased about his girlfriend, twotimes her for another girl but has to fight a bunch of guys for the most stretched of reasons, absurdity abounds and ambiguous morality wins the day.

I blame film critics, who have to sit through hundreds of films and yearn for outside-the-box ridiculousness to break their monotony; whereas regular folks get to watch maybe one or two films a week and just want to be entertained with exactly the stuff that critics tire off - popular entertainment.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's weird how one person can love something for all the same reasons y'all hate it, huh? :smallbiggrin:

[Kindablue]

I saw it once on DVD and was pretty disappointed by it, but found myself starting it over and watching it again, maybe out of blind hope, maybe to try to wring another ounce of entertainment from it so I could feel a bit better about my purchase,I don't know. On about the forth time through I laughed at every single thing that happened. I think it's one of the most brilliantly edited together films I've ever seen--its pace making up for the not so great humor at some points. I can get why people don't like it, and why it tanked, but for me it's right on par with Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz.

[pita]

In my haste to disparage the movie, I forgot to mention some things that I really liked: Namely, some of the side characters.
I don't remember the names, but I remember the actors.
Aubrey Plaza, wotsisface Culkin, and the cute chick from Up In The Air (Okay, I don't really remember the actors either) were all pitch perfect in every moment of theirs. Especially Culkin.
Some of the cleverness was also pretty good in its own right as well, I suppose. Young Neil took me a while to notice, but I definitely approved once I did. Nega Scott was a pretty good anticlimax, and I love those.

[Xondoure]

It's weird how one person can love something for all the same reasons y'all hate it, huh? :smallbiggrin:

This. The comic book video gamey aspects are exactly what makes this movie stand out. If you can't get excited about that, than the film just isn't for you.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I for one would have found those aspects interesting if they were done ... differently.


Also I disagree with whoever said the drawing was bad in the comics.

Hi. The only person you could've meant was me. And I would like to say, I didn't say that. I said that the art, "wasn't all that good." There's a pretty big middle ground between good and bad.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Hi. The only person you could've meant was me. And I would like to say, I didn't say that. I said that the art, "wasn't all that good." There's a pretty big middle ground between good and bad.
Hello! I only really read through the thread once quickly and then posted, sorry about the vagueness. I had read 'not all that good' to mean bad and my brain must have filed it as such. I personally found the style of drawing of the characters to be very interesting and his backgrounds, when he chose to include them, well-done. Which is why I disagreed, I didn't see anything inherently bad to the art and I still don't see anything 'not all that good' about it. :smallsmile:

Edit: Though I would agree when he started changing the art direction the quality of the book as a whole suffered. I was much happier with the movie ending than the 6th book in the series.

[Lord Seth]

I was much happier with the movie ending than the 6th book in the series.I completely agree with this. I saw the movie ending first and it wasn't perfect, but I thought it was decent. The 6th book's ending, though, while being very similar, just felt really hollow in its execution. I mean, it's pretty much the same ending in both, but the way it was done felt much better in the film.

I have conflicting feelings overall in the film versus the books. I feel the books did a better job in terms of there being character development and having the characters be more likable as people, which the film rushed through a lot of. On the other hand, I thought the movie's faster pace was much better...I really don't think the book series needed to be as long as it did, it really dragged at points. I think the fights were better also, especially the first one...it really benefits from seeing it in live action and actually hearing the music rather than it just being on the page. I think I liked the movie more overall.

The movie had its problems, but I think as long as you don't take it seriously it manages to be a fun and goofy film. I've also for whatever reason generally enjoyed series where the protagonist(s) have, whether for the whole series or part of it, a certain number of enemies to go through that they have to take on one by one (sometimes with there being multiples). This was part of the reason I liked the portion of Magiranger where they fight the ten members of the Infershia Pantheon one by one.

[junglesteve]

...

I love you! Scott Pilgrim is one of my biggest dislikes and usually starts a growth of hatred for whoever is touting the comics or whatever else around.

[SaintRidley]

I watched most of the movie once. Felt nothing for it. Still feel nothing. It did nothing for me.

You know. Whatever. People who like it, good for them. People who hate it, good for them.

I'm just here to register a vote in the "meh" column.

[Moff Chumley]

I loved the comics. The movie didn't really do 'em justice, but I think I would've loathed it if I hadn't read the comics.

[SDF]

The problem with the film was that it didn't develop the motivations for the characters. Knives wasn't all, "Oh hey, you should dump me. I'm totally cool with that." She really wasn't. Scott was an airhead in the comics, but there was a reason for it. Both Scott and the audience were able to like Ramona for being more than the hot alt girl in the comics because she was developed. In the film there is no reason for us to like her or want her and Scott to be together. I like how they handled the extra life thing in the film, and the bass battle was totes epic. I still enjoyed the film a lot. It was just shallower than the comic, and thats almost fitting in a generational statement way.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

In all honesty, I'm not sure why people outside of Toronto like it. I like it because it's set in my home town. I mean, when they go to Sneaky Dees, I went to school across the street from there. Gideon's club, it's set on closest major intersection to my house. Lee's Palace, I've been there. And more places that didn't make it into the movie, like Honest Ed's and the crazy deer-head there, which also exists, and yes it looks like that, for those who have read the comics.

I think literally EVERY spot in the comics is a real spot in the city. Even the random Starbucks, are actual Starbucks in the city, that he sketched the exterior of, including the signs of hte neighbouring buildings.

[SDF]

I love SLC Punk! despite loathing every minute I have to be in Salt Lake City.

[Dr.Epic]

Meh, I enjoyed it. I just finished watching it. I thought it was good, not great. I had some fun moments and some good comedy. I actually liked the romance plot of the film. It felt real and like real people, not some stupid romantic comedy. I will admit it was gimmicky which you could argue to be a strength or weakness. It does know what it wants to be and what demographic it's for, but on the other hand that does somewhat isolates the audience.

One thing I noticed about the film is all the evil X's could be members of the Ginyu Force. And if you don't know what that is, youtube it and prepare to be mentally scarred.


The comics bored me and the art wasn't all that good. I didn't even bother with the movie. So no. You are not the only one.

:smallconfused:

I'm assuming you read OotS since you're on these forums.

[Knight13]

The problem with the film was that it didn't develop the motivations for the characters. Knives wasn't all, "Oh hey, you should dump me. I'm totally cool with that." She really wasn't. Scott was an airhead in the comics, but there was a reason for it. Both Scott and the audience were able to like Ramona for being more than the hot alt girl in the comics because she was developed. In the film there is no reason for us to like her or want her and Scott to be together. I like how they handled the extra life thing in the film, and the bass battle was totes epic. I still enjoyed the film a lot. It was just shallower than the comic, and thats almost fitting in a generational statement way.
QFT. You'll likely enjoy the movie a lot more if you read the comics first, because the characters are much better developed in the comics. It makes them much more understandable and likeable in the movie because you'll know all the motivations and character depth that wasn't explored.

Personally, there were a few things I didn't like about the movie. Like how Envy and Kim's roles were reduced to almost nothing, the fact that they didn't do Last Song Kills Audience and I didn't like the new ending so much. But overall I thought it was a pretty good depiction of the comics.

[erikun]

I've read through the first comic book or so, and put it down after that. The video game references and/or things suddenly erupting into a game-off was perhaps a bit amusing at first, but got a bit old after awhile. The plot of the whole thing wasn't really stong enough or interesting enough to hold my attention.

I didn't see the movie, but I'm assuming it's like the comic and so didn't take time to watch it.


I'm assuming you read OotS since you're on these forums.
There is quite a difference between art complexity and art quality. I personally like the art for Metabots over Scott Pilgrim, despite the former obviously be less detailed. I wouldn't say that Scott Pilgrim is bad, but just that I don't like the style and aesthetics of it.

[Avilan the Grey]

I must admit I have never watched the movie, because I didn't find the comics interesting enough to keep reading. So, no. You are not alone. :smallamused:

[irenicObserver]

I would like to state that I enjoyed the movie and I am likely to enjoy the comics.

I would also like to say that you are not likely to ever be alone in whatever opinion you may have, now or ever. In line with this I felt the thread title was rather passive-aggressive but I appreciate that you recognized it and disclaimed it in the OP.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I think what killed the 6th book was the sudden deadline. Bryan Lee O'Malley got the movie deal before he was finished with the series and was required to have the book out before the movie hit screens to increase sales. I know his other books didn't have nearly so stringent a timeline, and he just dropped the ball. Also it seemed like he wasn't as invested in the series at that point, I remember reading about how he had grown up and was somewhat removed from the original inspiration that brought the books to life.

Also I'm only 1 degree separated away from Bryan Lee O'Malley, which I always found kinda cool. Apparently he took all the money he made, moved to California, and became a yuppie. >.>

[Dr.Epic]

The movie has a pee meter. How can it be bad? You know everyone is always saying how great Citizen Kane is, but not once in the film do we see a pee meter.

:smallwink:
:smalltongue:

[Shatteredtower]

I pretty much agree with this. I also think the movie tries so desperately hard to be clever at points that it just comes off as pretentious.

Funny, I thought it worked because its focus was on how well it skewered pretentious behaviour. It plays with glamour and wish fulfillment, where everyone is trying to live out escapist fantasies and illusion poisoning takes its toll. Of course it would be set in Toronto, a city with a history of posing as other places.

Larger than life occurences just cast the mundane facade in an unusual light.

[Omergideon]

I thought it was fun, enjoyable and interesting enough to work. I liked the various gimmicks and thought them funny to watch. The Evil exes were interesting and varied enough that the film did not bog down when they were on screen. And Scott does go through character growth, realising his doucheyness and growing up some by the end. This is good for me.

Now there are a few dull parts. The 4th ex was not too special. The early part focusing on scott did drag on occasion more than once. And the relationship was too artificial. Kinda the point I suppose, but still dull to watch. However good action choreography, fx, and some of the best Exes ever (Brandon Routh and Chris Evans were amazing) made this a fully enjoyable film for me.

[Jaros]

The movie has a pee meter. How can it be bad? You know everyone is always saying how great Citizen Kane is, but not once in the film do we see a pee meter.

:smallwink:
:smalltongue:

Clearly you haven't seen the remastered director's cut.

[Dr.Epic]

Clearly you haven't seen the remastered director's cut.

With 20 plus hours of CGI effects?

[Jaros]

With 20 plus hours of CGI effects?

You bet. And they finally explain what the deal was with that damn bird (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuEipGrfMg)

[DigoDragon]

I saw the movie recently myself. It was... okay? I liked the fight scenes and the clever hidden numbers to show you which "level" Scott was on, but I didn't care for the ending. I actually would have prefered he stay with Knives considering how loyal she still was throughout the movie.
Eh, just my opinion. I didn't feel like I wasted my time on the film. I just think it could use a little more story then gimmick.

[DiscipleofBob]

I saw the movie recently myself. It was... okay? I liked the fight scenes and the clever hidden numbers to show you which "level" Scott was on, but I didn't care for the ending. I actually would have prefered he stay with Knives considering how loyal she still was throughout the movie.
Eh, just my opinion. I didn't feel like I wasted my time on the film. I just think it could use a little more story then gimmick.

The books end with Scott getting back together with Knives (mostly just to have a different end than the movie, which came out before the books ended). In my opinion, that is the worst ending and here's why:

The whole point of the Scott/Knives relationship is that it was wrong and everyone else saw it. Knives was a nice young girl at all, but she was 17 and easily impressed, and there's pretty much no way for a 22-year old to do anything and not be taking advantage of her. When Scott dumped her, it was devastating as Knives experienced her first bad breakup, and, like quite a few jilted girlfriends, doesn't handle it well to say the least. She starts stalking Scott and getting obsessively jealous about Ramona, but at the very end she's grown up as much as Scott has. She's gotten over her obsession with Scott and Ramona and has grown out of her psycho-stalker phase. She's a better and wiser person because of it, and she doesn't hate Scott or Ramona, but she's certainly not going to go back into that destructive relationship. She grows up.

If Scott gets back together with Knives, well, that just validates her crazy stalker-logic and the logic of crazy stalkers everywhere. No one grows up. No one learns anything. And no one's better off.

Though if you want to talk alternate endings, the video game has some good ones:
Ending 1: Scott doesn't get Ramona but gets back together with Knives, Kim, and Envy all at the same time, and it's mutual.
Ending 2: Kim gets together with Knives, confusing the hell out of everyone.

I, for one, loved this movie. Top 10 of all time at least. It was a movie that didn't treat itself too seriously but still had amazing depth. It actually treated the video game references with respect. It also treated the various geek and indie cultures with the respect they deserved while simultaneously pointing out some of the silliness involved in it all. The characters (or at least the main ones) all seemed real to me because I KNOW those people. The aloof 22-year old loser who wishes he lived in video game physics world. The jaded girl who's a lot nicer once she opens up but has some bad history with relationships. The naive stalker-girl who really just needs to let the pain pass and grow up. To me, Scott Pilgrim was everything a movie should be. I haven't read the comics either, I went into the movie not knowing really anything about them.

[Manga Shoggoth]

The books end with Scott getting back together with Knives (mostly just to have a different end than the movie, which came out before the books ended). In my opinion, that is the worst ending and here's why:


Nope. That's the alternative ending to the movie (it's an extra on the DVD). Both comic and film end with Scott and Ramona going through a subspace door together after Scott says goodbye to Knives.


The whole point of the Scott/Knives relationship ...


A masterly summation of why the Scott/Ramona ending was the better one.




I, for one, loved this movie. Top 10 of all time at least. It was a movie that didn't treat itself too seriously but still had amazing depth. It actually treated the video game references with respect. It also treated the various geek and indie cultures with the respect they deserved while simultaneously pointing out some of the silliness involved in it all. The characters (or at least the main ones) all seemed real to me because I KNOW those people. The aloof 22-year old loser who wishes he lived in video game physics world. The jaded girl who's a lot nicer once she opens up but has some bad history with relationships. The naive stalker-girl who really just needs to let the pain pass and grow up. To me, Scott Pilgrim was everything a movie should be. I haven't read the comics either, I went into the movie not knowing really anything about them.

To me, the strength of the movie was that it attempted to get as much as possible from the comic on the screen. It did this really well.

On the other hand, my wife (to whom comics and video games are pretty much a closed book) enjoyed the movie purely on the basis of the character interactions. And the Vegan Police.

[DiscipleofBob]

Nope. That's the alternative ending to the movie (it's an extra on the DVD). Both comic and film end with Scott and Ramona going through a subspace door together after Scott says goodbye to Knives.

:smallconfused: Huh, could've sworn the comics ended with Scott/Knives. Oh well, just reinforces that I haven't read the comics.


A masterly summation of why the Scott/Ramona ending was the better one.

Thanks. :smallbiggrin:


To me, the strength of the movie was that it attempted to get as much as possible from the comic on the screen. It did this really well.

On the other hand, my wife (to whom comics and video games are pretty much a closed book) enjoyed the movie purely on the basis of the character interactions. And the Vegan Police.

From what I've heard, there are even more references in the comics, but there are some that could only be done in the movie format.

For example, Todd, the third evil ex: He has psychic powers that cause his hair to flare up and he's blond. That alone is at least referential to Dragonball Z. Couple in the fact that his powers are Vegan-related (a reference to the fact that all the Saiyan-names in DBZ are vegetables: Vegeta (Vegetable), Kakkarot (Carrot), Raditz (Radish), and I forget what Nappa is but it's some kind of brand of vegetable as well) and the idea that Vegans are "just better than you" hits home the DBZ reference. Now who do they get to play Todd in the movie? The guy who played Superman not too long before Scott Pilgrim came out. Cue every comparison made in geek culture between DBZ and Superman. Fridge explodes with logic.

Or a bit more simply...

Lucas Lee being played up more in the trailers than even Gideon despite being a minor character. From a marketing standpoint, they're just showing off the big star: Chris Evans, also Human Torch and Captain America (not out yet at this time but I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by this point Chris'd be playing him). Or are they showing off the real big star: Lucas Lee?

[Derthric]

I personally do not like this movie. It was the single worst movie theater going experience of my life. I found the main character to be just whiny and annoying. And not because Michael Cera was playing him but just by his needy and obsessive nature. I failed to see the connection between him and Romona and every scene just seemed strung together with the very weak crazy ex's line tying them together. I was so turned off by the film I think I laughed at the Midi universal tune and then maybe once again in the film. I was so emotionally detached from the movie because I did not care one wit about Scott Pilgrim or his "problems". And once that happened the theater became akin to a sensory deprivation chamber. I could not distract myself from this towering inferno of dull because there was nothing else here and I did not leave because my ride was laughing hysterically in the next seat.

Overall I found the main character to be the type of person I genuinely despise. And I thought the movie could have picked up about the time he realized he was being selfish and a colossal jerk. But no the only thing he learns is that his self respect is worth more than true love. Which makes no sense to me, as his character was down on everything but what does he have to be self-respecting about? He goes from fighting for his "true love" to fighting for himself. But why? What is he fighting for at the end? Why is HE worth fighting for or me caring about as a character.

I just never connected to Scott Pilgrim and if you fail to do that this movie has nothing for you.

[Shatteredtower]

On the subject of Knives ending up with Scott, I think Ellen Wong's reaction to having the ending changed sums it up best. She made it clear that she'd never go back to someone that pulled something like that on her.


Overall I found the main character to be the type of person I genuinely despise. And I thought the movie could have picked up about the time he realized he was being selfish and a colossal jerk. But no the only thing he learns is that his self respect is worth more than true love. Which makes no sense to me, as his character was down on everything but what does he have to be self-respecting about? He goes from fighting for his "true love" to fighting for himself. But why?

Because growing up starts with taking responsibility for yourself. You may become responsible for other people in that role, but it starts with being responsible for yourself.

Besides, how can anyone without self-worth possibly achieve true love? That requires personal commitment you're not giving when you haven't invested anything in yourself. I don't think we ever get true love in this movie either. The most we get is two people giving it another shot with a little less baggage between them.

[Dr.Epic]

You bet. And they finally explain what the deal was with that damn bird (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuEipGrfMg)

Another masterpiece by George Lucas!

[KillianHawkeye]

For example, Todd, the third evil ex: He has psychic powers that cause his hair to flare up and he's blond. That alone is at least referential to Dragonball Z. Couple in the fact that his powers are Vegan-related (a reference to the fact that all the Saiyan-names in DBZ are vegetables: Vegeta (Vegetable), Kakkarot (Carrot), Raditz (Radish), and I forget what Nappa is but it's some kind of brand of vegetable as well) and the idea that Vegans are "just better than you" hits home the DBZ reference. Now who do they get to play Todd in the movie? The guy who played Superman not too long before Scott Pilgrim came out. Cue every comparison made in geek culture between DBZ and Superman. Fridge explodes with logic.

FYI, DBZ/Superman comparisons have been around for a long, long time. Hell, Supes and Goku have basically the same origin story both sent from an exploding planet to earth as babies in a tiny space capsule; adopted and raised by the very first earthling to come along

[Xondoure]

FYI, DBZ/Superman comparisons have been around for a long, long time. Hell, Supes and Goku have basically the same origin story both sent from an exploding planet to earth as babies in a tiny space capsule; adopted and raised by the very first earthling to come along

That was the point he was making unless I'm very much mistaken. :smallconfused:

[Das Platyvark]

Honestly?
It's an entertaining movie, but that does not make it good. Everything that was good about the comics is nowhere to be found. I always thought that the whole point of the ending, what made it all work, was that it was all in Ramona's head, and really damn creepy, but once he sees how she relates to Gideon, he still wants her. All that is gone in the movie. Instead of: Big bad's a mysterious, deeply unsettling creep who is hinted at throughout the entire thing, and with whom Ramona still wants to continue her honestly quite creepy relationship, we've got: look, this guy's a smug jerk! Go fight him and win the girl!
Aside from the ending, the had a tendency to abbreviate, and to turn genuinely touching moments painful, or comedic, or both.
Best thing about the movie? I can't think of one. Maybe subspace? But they left out the best scene....
Worst thing about the movie: Michael Cera.

[Loki_42]

I enjoy Scott Pilgrim in every medium, though I can understand why some would not. Even for me, the film decreases in quality every time I see it. It's a very stylish movie, but the lack of real substance means that I will lose interest in it. I am reading the comics now, however, and they fix everything that I had wrong with the movies, by having real, genuine character development and interactions. I have not read volume 6 yet, but I hope to soon. I consider them really two halves of the same coin, with the comics lacking some of the awesome that the movie delivers through effects, and the movie having what feels like an overall more hollow story. I feel like if the movie had had more time, or was maybe in several parts, it would have been better, but seeing it's underperformance in the box-office resigns me to the fact that that would have never happened and that we're probably better off with something complete than one half of a perfect movie.

[Triscuitable]

I actually love the series, but I did really like the film's version of Stephen Stills. Whereas everyone in the comics is a total pessimistic arse (Scott and Ramona notwithstanding), in the film, Stephen was a combination of clueless and human. It made watching his character a lot more fun.

[DiscipleofBob]

FYI, DBZ/Superman comparisons have been around for a long, long time. Hell, Supes and Goku have basically the same origin story both sent from an exploding planet to earth as babies in a tiny space capsule; adopted and raised by the very first earthling to come along

Yup, that was the point. Scott Pilgrim even references that.

Also, you don't need to put that last part in spoilers, that information's older and more widely known than "Aeris dies" or "Snape kills Dumbledore."

[Dr.Epic]

Man, I think the focus of the film was really off. I was far more concerned with Young Neil and at how the end he becomes Neil. Could we get any character development with that? I mean, could we actually see the transformation the character went through? It's such a big change, and they just completely underplay it. That would have made the film so much better!

:smallwink:

[GeekGirl]

I liked the movie, but I really hate Michael Cera. If anything were to kill it for me, it would be him.

[BRC]

Remember that the Film was written before the last few books came out, which is why it seems to take such a sudden departure.

It dosn't help that Scott's journey in the Film is so different from his journey in the books. In the books Scott's problem is that he sees himself as the hero of his own story, to the point where he is blind to his own shortcomings. The final sword "The Power of Understanding" Reflects how Scott now understands that he's not the innocent little nerd he's been seeing himself as, that he's a jerk who has hurt people in the past, but never sees himself as the Bad Guy. Nega-Scott in the books is a symbol of everything he's forgetting that he did. He fights nega-scott, looses, and then realizes that he's just as flawed as everybody else.

In the movie Scott has the opposite problem. Low self-esteem. His final sword is "the Power of Self-Respect". Nega-Scott isn't that bad a guy. It's a very different arc from the book, but I wouldn't say it's any worse.

[Tvtyrant]

I thought the movie was okay, but I loved the books. The movie has huge pacing issues IMO, the beginning drags on and on, then it does well from the first date with Ramona till Scott kills Todd, and then it speeds up until the events lose most of their meaning.

Since the fifth book was my second favorite (after the 3rd) I was a little irritated that the whole "cheating" issue was slung into the end, we never got an dialogue between Scott and the twins, etc. I know the movie was started before that, but still.

[Androgeus]

we never got an dialogue between Scott and the twins, etc. I know the movie was started before that, but still.

Bit hard to have dialogue when the actors don't speak English.:smalltongue:

[Soliloquy]

I see a lot of good points here, such as the visual sound effects, and the ending. the movie ending was, as previously mentioned, originally that he gets together with Knives, so the change is abrupt and doesn't make a lot of sense. As the movies were made before the books were finished, the people making it didn't have the the same understanding that they should have. BRC puts it best, the film didn't get that Scott wasn't a good person, and he always was trying to make himself either the victim or the hero. I find it interesting to think of it as how it could have happened if Scott never realized what his own faults were.
To Dethric and Shatteredtower, I agree that a major part of the point there was that there was no true love going on at all. His relationship with Knives was basically just a way for him to entertain himself, and when he sees Ramona he thinks it's "true love" because of the dream of her that happened before because of the subspace highway. He immediately goes after her because of his protagonist complex reassuring him that it was "meant to happen", or that she was his true love and he should pursue her. It was not a switch from fighting for true love to fighting for himself, it was a realization that he was never really fighting for true love, but for himself. He realizes that he was denying his faults, he only prevented himself from doing what was right. The ending, where they decide to start again is saying that they are going to start again without preconceived notions of their own righteousness.

Unless I'm wrong

[Dr.Epic]

Bit hard to have dialogue when the actors don't speak English.:smalltongue:

That never stopped horribly dubbed old kung fu films.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Bit hard to have dialogue when the actors don't speak English.:smalltongue:

Oh come on, Sukiyaki Western Django was a perfectly understandably movie! :smalltongue:

[Shatteredtower]

Unless I'm wrong

Whether or not that's the case, you've given me something more for my thoughts. Thank you for that.

[BRC]

I see a lot of good points here, such as the visual sound effects, and the ending. the movie ending was, as previously mentioned, originally that he gets together with Knives, so the change is abrupt and doesn't make a lot of sense. As the movies were made before the books were finished, the people making it didn't have the the same understanding that they should have. BRC puts it best, the film didn't get that Scott wasn't a good person, and he always was trying to make himself either the victim or the hero. I find it interesting to think of it as how it could have happened if Scott never realized what his own faults were.

Eh, I just see Film Scott as a different character with a similar set of problems.

Book Scott is an unemployed slacker because he always sees himself as either the Victim or the Hero. He remains unmotivated because he dosn't see anything wrong with his lifestyle. He is a parasite, he mooches off his roommate (Whose name I forget right now), using his stuff without really contributing anything. For Stephen Stills the band is something he hopes will go somewhere, but for Scott it's just something to do. He dates Knives for similar reasons. He drifts through life in a state of mild contentment, using his friends and unaware that he's doing anything wrong. Because, remember, he sees himself as either the Victim or the Hero in every situation, he thinks "My life is fine, why change it", ignoring that his life is fine because he is abusing the trust and patience of his friends. His character arc is as much about him assuming responsibility for his life as it is about fighting evil exes.

Movie Scott is your more typical slacker with low self-esteem. He's just as much of a parasite, but that's less because he dosn't see anything wrong with his life, and more because he dosn't think he can do any better. Unlike Book Scott, who thinks his life is grand (There is a reason the first book is called Scott Pilgrim's precious Little Life), Movie Scott realizes that his life sucks, and that he sucks by extension, but doesn't think it's within his power to do anything about it. So instead he just smiles and floats through life without really doing anything. He thinks "My life sucks, but I can't do anything about it, so I'll just learn to enjoy it".