Stick Planet Travel Guide

[SaintRidley]

So I just got done reading all the cool extras in my brand new copies of War and XPs, No Cure, and Origin, and I have to say the coolest thing in the three has to be the Stick Planet Travel Guide to the Southern Lands: Azure City.

Anybody really hoping we can get something like it in the next compilation? Stick Planet Travel Guide to the Western Continent: The Unprincipled PrincipalitiesTyrinariaThe Empire of Blood, anybody?

Or perhaps that update to the Azure City guide that the sticky note on the entry for Azure City promises - Stick Planet Travel Guide to the Southern Lands: Gobbotopia.


I may be a bit of a nerd over fictional geographical stats.

[ZerglingOne]

For every game I've ever really been into, the lore tends to be as important if not more important than every other part of the game itself. So from one lore nerd to another, I would also like to see more geographical and location specific information about the OOTS world.

[King of Nowhere]

thumbs up for lore nerd! I also liked that guide very much!

I like discovering curious facts about strange places. sometimes i even wander on google maps and read the wiki of the first location i encounter that catches my attention.
If the location is the fictional setting of a story, no problem at all; in fact, those are generally more intersting than real world ones

[LordRahl6]

Rich originally had planned to produce a campaign guide to OotS but those ideas were railroaded with the introduction of the 4th edition.:smallfrown:

Some of the stuff that was supposed to be in it was the guide to Azure City in WAXP, and the Secret Lore of the Crimson Mantle in SoD.:smallwink:

[AlaskaOOTSFan]

Rich originally had planned to produce a campaign guide to OotS but those ideas were railroaded with the introduction of the 4th edition.:smallfrown:

Some of the stuff that was supposed to be in it was the guide to Azure City in WAXP, and the Secret Lore of the Crimson Mantle in SoD.:smallwink:

I think it's possible that once the story finishes this could be a project he works on.

That, and an indie video game.

[NerfTW]

I would love a series of wrap up strips/pages included in the last book that contained a general map, maybe with the paths the Order took from place to place, a timeline, and other nerdy minutia. Maybe no more than a few pages.

[Ted The Bug]

Empire of Blood travel booklet would be so epic! Even if it meant Rich spending hours researching synonyms for 'hemoglobin' in order to name everything.

[Kish]

I think it's possible that once the story finishes this could be a project he works on.

That, and an indie video game.
I wonder what the legal issues involved with him independently producing a 3.5ed OotS campaign guide would be.

He can't publish it through WotC anymore, they won't do anything for an earlier edition, but I bet it would still be profitable if Ookadook did it. The question is whether the legal issues with producing such a book independently would make it somewhere between not worth it and impossible.

[ti'esar]

There's always the possibility of just making a purely descriptive (i.e. no rules information of any sort) "travel guide".

[t209]

It's a sad thing Azurite Resistance are dead. If they didn't die or their ally wasn't too dumb to check on the spy it would be.
Azure City Gobbotopia Azure City (again with the help of Elves)
Then again, the resistance's death prevented the huge waste of plot time with big war with goblins and the new island that Azurite Refugees is on could make a sign of hope for war torn western continent until a wham episode show their demise as wiped out, civil war or devolve into barbarians.

[ThePhantasm]

It's a sad thing Azurite Resistance are dead. If they didn't die or their ally wasn't too dumb to check on the spy it would be.
Azure City Gobbotopia Azure City (again with the help of Elves)
Then again, the resistance's death prevented the huge waste of plot time with big war with goblins and the new island that Azurite Refugees is on could make a sign of hope for war torn western continent until a wham episode show their demise as wiped out, civil war or devolve into barbarians.

What does this have to do with future Stick Planet Travel Guides? And I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say about the Refugees in the last sentence of your comment... ?

[t209]

What does this have to do with future Stick Planet Travel Guides? And I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say about the Refugees in the last sentence of your comment... ?
I was trying to say that the Guide would have more delete lines if Azurites resistance did not fell. I also mention that the fall of Resistance did save up time for the main plot since Resistance's success could lead to liberation arc that could take up a lot of space for OOTS Storyline.
For the last sentence, I am saying that Travel Guide could also include the New Refugees Island since the resistance are gone. I am trying to say that it could be a good thing for guide until they are wiped out or devolve into barbarian tribes.

[Emperordaniel]

I also mention that the fall of Resistance did save up time for the main plot since Resistance's success could lead to liberation arc that could take up a lot of space for OOTS Storyline.I think there may still be a "Liberation of Azure City" arc or mini-arc eventually, especially if Xykon and/or Redcloak (the two most powerful Gobbotopian casters - and Xykon doesn't even care (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) about the city anymore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html)) is killed in the comic; it's not like cities haven't been recaptured before without any help from a resistance movement. :smallwink:


I am trying to say that it could be a good thing for guide until they are wiped out or devolve into barbarian tribes....why would they be wiped out or devolve into barbarian tribes? :smallconfused:

[zimmerwald1915]

I think there may still be a "Liberation of Azure City" arc or mini-arc eventually, especially if Xykon and/or Redcloak (the two most powerful Gobbotopian casters - and Xykon doesn't even care (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) about the city anymore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html)) is killed in the comic; it's not like cities haven't been recaptured before without any help from a resistance movement. :smallwink:
Why should the plot arc continue? With the death of the Resistance, the forcible exclusion of the elves from the world-political (by which I always mean imperialist) scene, and the settlement of the refugees, it has reached a natural conclusion. Why should the Giant open the plot up again, broadening instead of tightening a story which has passed its halfway point and has more than enough loose ends already?

[Finagle]

Why should the plot arc continue? With the death of the Resistance, the forcible exclusion of the elves from the world-political (by which I always mean imperialist) scene, and the settlement of the refugees, it has reached a natural conclusion. Why should the Giant open the plot up again, broadening instead of tightening a story which has passed its halfway point and has more than enough loose ends already?
Because otherwise Hinjo has no part to play in the story. He's not in this book, but the story will return to him and the refugees eventually. Don't forget Kazumi and Daigo as well. Moreover, Roy probably feels bad about losing the battle and wants to make things right.

Just because the Azurites haven't lived in Azure City for a while doesn't mean they don't consider it their rightful home. Xykon didn't set foot inside his tower for 30 years and yet in his mind it was still 100% owned by him.

[zimmerwald1915]

Because otherwise Hinjo has no part to play in the story. He's not in this book, but the story will return to him and the refugees eventually. Don't forget Kazumi and Daigo as well. Moreover, Roy probably feels bad about losing the battle and wants to make things right.
It's not so very hard to believe that Hinjo indeed has no part to play in the story. What is there left for him to do? Act as a relay between the Order and O-Chul and Lien? He can do that offscreen, without even giving him lines. That's been done in this very book; V talks about a whole Sending sequence that happened offscreen. Kazumi and Daigo have yet to actually impact the story. Their role so far has been to be impacted by the story and to escape death. There is no particular reason that should change. As for Roy, he has bigger things to worry about, and by the time he's taken care of those bigger things, the whole story, not just the Azurites' little arc, will have reached a natural stoppoing point.


Just because the Azurites haven't lived in Azure City for a while doesn't mean they don't consider it their rightful home. Xykon didn't set foot inside his tower for 30 years and yet in his mind it was still 100% owned by him.
The problems of a few thousand refugees don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.

[ti'esar]

Why should the plot arc continue? With the death of the Resistance, the forcible exclusion of the elves from the world-political (by which I always mean imperialist) scene, and the settlement of the refugees, it has reached a natural conclusion. Why should the Giant open the plot up again, broadening instead of tightening a story which has passed its halfway point and has more than enough loose ends already?

It's an open question whether we'll see any more Azure City plot arcs, but I think it's safe to say we will hear from Gobbotopia again.

[t209]

I hope we get to see where the kingdoms of Nowhere, Somewhere and Anywhere gets or same recurring joke (Next to X and next to Y thingy).

[rgrekejin]

It's not so very hard to believe that Hinjo indeed has no part to play in the story.

In one of the bonus comics from "Don't Split the Party" there is a flashback scene showing Shojo and Sangwaan discussing putting the mark of justice on Belkar. Sangwaan says that she sees him saving Hinjo's life, twice. The first time was obviously when he prevented Hinjo from being shot with a poisoned arrow. But I don't think the second has occurred yet. The only other place you could even make an argument for Belkar having saved Hinjo's life is here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html), but that's a pretty tough argument to make, considering that they got shot by the hobgoblins anyway and survived relatively unscathed. If anything, that was Elan saving Hinjo's life, not Belkar. I guess we don't know that Sangwaan's prophecies are infallible like the Oracle's, but if they are, then it seems certain that Hinjo will be back at least one more time.

[zimmerwald1915]

It's an open question whether we'll see any more Azure City plot arcs, but I think it's safe to say we will hear from Gobbotopia again.
Which is quite beside the point, given that Gobbotopia and the Azurites are on opposite sides of the planet and that, separated from Team Evil and the Order respectively, neither has any way of reaching or interacting with the other, wouldn't you agree?


In one of the bonus comics from "Don't Split the Party" there is a flashback scene showing Shojo and Sangwaan discussing putting the mark of justice on Belkar. Sangwaan says that she sees him saving Hinjo's life, twice. The first time was obviously when he prevented Hinjo from being shot with a poisoned arrow. But I don't think the second has occurred yet. The only other place you could even make an argument for Belkar having saved Hinjo's life is here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html), but that's a pretty tough argument to make, considering that they got shot by the hobgoblins anyway and survived relatively unscathed. If anything, that was Elan saving Hinjo's life, not Belkar. I guess we don't know that Sangwaan's prophecies are infallible like the Oracle's, but if they are, then it seems certain that Hinjo will be back at least one more time.
Belkar needn't be in Hinjo's presence in order to save his life, and even if he is, that doesn't mean Hinjo is actually playign a role in the story. Playing a role means taking some sort of action that has some sort of influence on the course of events. Existing to be saved makes hinjo an object, not a subject, someone who is influenced by the story like Kazumi and Daigo, not someone who influences it. Much less someone who drives a plot arc.

[rgrekejin]

Belkar needn't be in Hinjo's presence in order to save his life, and even if he is, that doesn't mean Hinjo is actually playign a role in the story. Playing a role means taking some sort of action that has some sort of influence on the course of events. Existing to be saved makes hinjo an object, not a subject, someone who is influenced by the story like Kazumi and Daigo, not someone who influences it. Much less someone who drives a plot arc.

I suppose it is true that if Belkar prevents the release of the Snarl, and therefore the destruction of the entire world, he will have saved Hinjo's life, along with those of everyone else. But fulfillments of prophecy have, in the past, generally been much more immediate and unambiguous than that (granted, those were mostly Oracle prophecies, and Sangwaan's may work differently, but still). As I believe the original question referred to whether or not Hinjo would appear again in the story, not whether or not his actions would in any way shape the outcome, I think that the subject/object distinction is a meaningless one for the purposes of this discussion. I'd be surprised if we never saw Hinjo ever again. He may not do anything really important, but I'd be surprised if we never even saw him.

[zimmerwald1915]

I suppose it is true that if Belkar prevents the release of the Snarl, and therefore the destruction of the entire world, he will have saved Hinjo's life, along with those of everyone else. But fulfillments of prophecy have, in the past, generally been much more immediate and unambiguous than that (granted, those were mostly Oracle prophecies, and Sangwaan's may work differently, but still). As I believe the original question referred to whether or not Hinjo would appear again in the story, not whether or not his actions would in any way shape the outcome, I think that the subject/object distinction is a meaningless one for the purposes of this discussion. I'd be surprised if we never saw Hinjo ever again. He may not do anything really important, but I'd be surprised if we never even saw him.
You're making things up. Emperordaniel's "original" point was that there might be a "Liberation of Azure City" plot arc, to which I responded that there is no reason for there to be such. Finagle's response to that point was that if there is no such plot, then Hinjo has no role to play as a story. The first time Hinjo comes up, he is conceived of as an actor, someone whose needs and actions drive the story forward. My response was that there is no reason for Hinjo to be an actor, whether he shows up again or not (the parenthetical, secondary point is, of course, that if Hinjo is not an actor there's not much call for him to show up at all), because there is nothing left for him, given the extant plot threads, to do. A "Liberation of Azure City" arc would be a new plot thread, not something that emerges organically out of the story as it stands. It may still happen, and some may wish for it to happen, but there is no reason to believe it will happen.

[TheEmerged]

I wonder what the legal issues involved with him independently producing a 3.5ed OotS campaign guide would be.

He can't publish it through WotC anymore, they won't do anything for an earlier edition, but I bet it would still be profitable if Paizo did it. The question is whether the legal issues with producing such a book independently would make it somewhere between not worth it and impossible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the world OotS happens in submitted as part of that campaign world creation contest (that Eberron won) WotC ran several years ago? If so, he likely had to sign the publication rights away as part of the contest. I know this is true of things I've submitted for contests to gaming companies in the past. I can say that I submitted a superheroic character named AlphaBaeth to a contest for HERO Games that used the Multiform mechanic, for example, but just about anything else would violate the agreement.

[rgrekejin]

You're making things up. Emperordaniel's "original" point was that there might be a "Liberation of Azure City" plot arc, to which I responded that there is no reason for there to be such. Finagle's response to that point was that if there is no such plot, then Hinjo has no role to play as a story. The first time Hinjo comes up, he is conceived of as an actor, someone whose needs and actions drive the story forward. My response was that there is no reason for Hinjo to be an actor, whether he shows up again or not (the parenthetical, secondary point is, of course, that if Hinjo is not an actor there's not much call for him to show up at all), because there is nothing left for him, given the extant plot threads, to do. A "Liberation of Azure City" arc would be a new plot thread, not something that emerges organically out of the story as it stands. It may still happen, and some may wish for it to happen, but there is no reason to believe it will happen.

You, sir, are incorrect. Perhaps this is my fault, as I was unclear in my post what I considered the "original" comment to be. I was discussing your reply to Finagle's comment, and thus I considered Finagle's statement
Because otherwise Hinjo has no part to play in the story. He's not in this book, but the story will return to him and the refugees eventually. Don't forget Kazumi and Daigo as well. Moreover, Roy probably feels bad about losing the battle and wants to make things right. to be the original statement. Perhaps I should have phrased that better... otherwise, it could be interpreted as referring to Emperordaniel's comment, or t209's comment before that.

I am not arguing that a "Liberation of Azure City" arc is inevitable, I am merely arguing that Hinjo does, indeed, have a part left to play in the story. Namely, he needs to have his life saved by Belkar. It was my assumption that "playing a part" was synonymous with being involved in the story in any substantive capacity (e.g. The Gates play a part in the story, even though they are a MacGuffin and do not take an active role in the outcome). This is apparently not the definition you share, and I'm not certain from Finagle's post which interpretation he favors. But the fact remains that there is at least one loose plot thread involving Hinjo in a substantive way. This seems to strongly imply that Hinjo is going to be brought back on stage again at some point (it does not necessitate it, but it strongly implies it). He may not do anything important once he's there, but, knowing Hinjo, it would be odd for him to be onstage and not be at least trying to accomplish something.

[Kish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the world OotS happens in submitted as part of that campaign world creation contest (that Eberron won) WotC ran several years ago?
No. If it was that, the comic would not exist, since Rich can't reveal anything about that world without WotC's unlikely-to-be-forthcoming permission.

It is unlikely that that world was anywhere near as humorous as the OotS world.

[rewinn]

The guide to the Western Continent might have to be revised quite often, as the Empires shift around.
Although, thanks to Tarquin's band, there is a measure of stability that wasn't there before, which would make travel for pleasure more likely. So perhaps he's secretly being backed by Rick Steves?:smalltongue:

[t209]

The guide to the Western Continent might have to be revised quite often, as the Empires shift around.
Although, thanks to Tarquin's band, there is a measure of stability that wasn't there before, which would make travel for pleasure more likely. So perhaps he's secretly being backed by Rick Steves?:smalltongue:
Nice idea, Rewinn.


I hope we get to see where the kingdoms of Nowhere, Somewhere and Anywhere gets or same recurring joke (Next to X and next to Y thingy).
Also this could also be a good idea.

[martianmister]

I hope we get to see where the kingdoms of Nowhere, Somewhere and Anywhere gets or same recurring joke (Next to X and next to Y thingy).

Also this could also be a good idea.

Are you okay? :smallconfused:

[Gift Jeraff]

I hope we get to see where the kingdoms of Nowhere, Somewhere and Anywhere gets or same recurring joke (Next to X and next to Y thingy).Also this could also be a good idea.Are you okay? :smallconfused:Whoa. :smalleek:

[t209]

Are you okay? :smallconfused:

I am okay the reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0226.html) is the one where OOTS was in the Inn and the staff mistakens him for the king of Nowhere.

[Kish]

martianmister is probably responding to the thing where you quoted yourself to say you agreed with yourself.

[t209]

{{Scrubbed}}

[ThePhantasm]

Actually, I did this to get attention.

Sometimes people don't respond to you because they don't understand what you are saying. I'm guessing English isn't your first language, as I seem to recall you mentioning before that you were Burmese. Nevertheless, you might want to try taking some more time crafting your sentences to better get your point across.

The statement you were trying to "get attention" for was this:


I hope we get to see where the kingdoms of Nowhere, Somewhere and Anywhere gets or same recurring joke (Next to X and next to Y thingy).

From that statement I can vaguely make out that you would want to see Nowhere, Somewhere, and Anywhere on the Travel Guide. But I'm not sure what "see where the kingdoms... gets" means exactly. I also have no idea what you are referring to in your parenthetical remark ("next to X and next to Y thingy").

Also, from what I can vaguely make out, the statement isn't particularly earth-shattering. Sometimes people just don't respond to a comment. That doesn't mean they didn't read it or that they didn't appreciate it. It just means that on this forum we try to cultivate a more in-depth discussion than a dozen posts simply saying "Yeah this is a good idea" or "I agree."

[lio45]

Actually, I did this to get attention.

Tip: if your post didn't get enough attention by itself in the first place, trying to force it down people's throats is definitely NOT going to bring (the right kind of) attention to it.

[ti'esar]

As far as the "Will we see the Azurites again?" discussion, two things that occurred to me:

Firstly, I don't think
Sangwaan's prophecy
really implies we'll be seeing Hinjo again, for one simple reason: it's book-only. Rich has always said that book-only information won't be needed to understand the online comics, and so while it's possible that this might come up again, it's equally possible it won't and
the prophecy really will just be fulfilled by Belkar saving the world and everyone in it (including Hinjo) or something like that. The Giant may have specifically avoided prophecy twists with the Oracle, but something minor like this might not be dealt with as blatantly.

On the other hand, I do think that this kind of thing

Why should the Giant open the plot up again, broadening instead of tightening a story which has passed its halfway point and has more than enough loose ends already?
is thinking about things the wrong way. The story is past its halfway point, yes, but there are still two entire books to go. I think the assumption a lot of people seem to have - that those books will be nothing but "main plot" - is very unlikely. There will almost certainly be more sidequests and subplots to come. Whether any of those will involve the Azurites in any way is an open question (and I don't think it's particularly likely), but I don't think it's accurate to completely dismiss it on the grounds that "we're past the time for secondary plots" either.

[zimmerwald1915]

is thinking about things the wrong way. The story is past its halfway point, yes, but there are still two entire books to go. I think the assumption a lot of people seem to have - that those books will be nothing but "main plot" - is very unlikely. There will almost certainly be more sidequests and subplots to come. Whether any of those will involve the Azurites in any way is an open question (and I don't think it's particularly likely), but I don't think it's accurate to completely dismiss it on the grounds that "we're past the time for secondary plots" either.
The key phrase in the bit you quoted was "open the plot up again", that is, "reopen a plot thread which has reached a natural conclusion". Obviously as the story breaks new ground geographically new actors will be revealed, will influence the story, and will eventually be left behind by it. I just don't understand the notion that somehow the Azurites are exempt from the "getting left behind" part. I believe Redcloak said it best: as far as appearing in or influencing the plot of the story going forward, stick a fork in them. They're done. His pronouncement was just a book early.

[t209]

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