View Full Version : Non standard dice shapes

Togath

2012-06-17, 01:27 PM

Something I've been wondering about for a long time; does anyone produce things such as d3s, d5s, d7s, d15s, or d25s?, It seems fairly feasible if you made the dice into rod shapes, with tapered ends to prevent them from landing on their end, instead of on a result., It would also be closer to standard gaming dice shapes then my original idea for how to make oddly numbered dice(just making them rods, but without tapered ends).

edit; darn, nvm, just realized the flaw with my design; while they wouldn't be able to land on their ends, they would have to be numbered like d4s, which are somewhat awkward to read, and I'm pretty sure(not 100% sure), that it's impossible to make a die that would show a result normally without using an even number.

prufock

2012-06-17, 01:48 PM

Google search reveals this as top result:

http://www.thediceshoponline.com/specialist-dice/153/Odd-Unusual-and-Specialist-Dice

As well as this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/games/d031/

Togath

2012-06-17, 01:54 PM

neat, the d3 and d5 look a lot easier to read then i had worried about, and it was funny to see the "d2s"(6 sided die numbered 1-2 thrice, it's still a clever idea to use a d6[or any other even sided die] to get a 1-2 result though)

Seerow

2012-06-17, 01:57 PM

Google search reveals this as top result:

http://www.thediceshoponline.com/specialist-dice/153/Odd-Unusual-and-Specialist-Dice

As well as this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/games/d031/

Man if that second link was 20 bucks instead of 40, I'd totally buy it right now. I just can't justify spending 4x what I'd normally spend on a set of dice for dice I will probably never use except as novelty.

The-Mage-King

2012-06-17, 02:42 PM

I, personally, own two d3s, produced by Crystal Caste (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8ezx?Set-of-10-Hybrid-Pearl-Dice).

Yes, they are both from a set of crystal dice. The everything but the d8, d12, and d20 are oddly shaped for the type. The d4's are NOT caltrops, suprisingly.

prufock

2012-06-17, 07:58 PM

neat, the d3 and d5 look a lot easier to read then i had worried about, and it was funny to see the "d2s"(6 sided die numbered 1-2 thrice, it's still a clever idea to use a d6[or any other even sided die] to get a 1-2 result though)

Of course, keep in mind that you probably have a handful of d2s in your pocket right now.

BiblioRook

2012-06-17, 08:48 PM

Something I've been wondering about for a long time; does anyone produce things such as d3s, d5s, d7s, d15s, or d25s?

Game Science makes a dice set consisting of a d3, a d5 (an actual five sided die (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T0QWLIBZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)), a d14 (with the days of the week printed in tiny font twice over), a d16, and a d24.

Here, found a link

http://www.awesomedice.com/GST9002-9068

Jay R

2012-06-17, 09:15 PM

But the collection is not complete until it goes from a d1 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/161789/mobius-1-sided-die.html) to a d120 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/147444/disdyakis-triacontahedron-d120-4cm-hollow.html).

NikitaDarkstar

2012-06-17, 09:30 PM

But the collection is not complete until it goes from a d1 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/161789/mobius-1-sided-die.html) to a d120 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/147444/disdyakis-triacontahedron-d120-4cm-hollow.html).

The d120 is turning my headache into a migraine just by looking at it.

Jay R

2012-06-18, 08:17 AM

The d120 is turning my headache into a migraine just by looking at it.

It's just one of the Catalan solids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_solid). Here's (http://www.shapeways.com/model/146812/disdyakis-triacontahedron.html) one without numbers. I once sold a prototype d120 to Lou Zocchi of Gamescience.

Nepenthe

2012-06-18, 10:29 PM

But the collection is not complete until it goes from a d1 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/161789/mobius-1-sided-die.html) to a d120 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/147444/disdyakis-triacontahedron-d120-4cm-hollow.html).

I have been looking for an excuse to buy that d1 for months. The only use for it I can think of is when a player voluntarily fails a save. And that only happens about once every never.

Jay R

2012-06-19, 09:41 AM

By the way, go to shapeways (http://www.shapeways.com/) and search for dice. You'll find a large (http://www.shapeways.com/model/274846/fractal-dice.html) number (http://www.shapeways.com/model/157304/catalan-dice-bundle-1.html) of (http://www.shapeways.com/model/285240/ossuary-dice-set.html) unusual (http://www.shapeways.com/model/250377/d15-sphere-dice.html) ones (http://www.shapeways.com/model/228678/d17-sphere-dice.html).

I have been looking for an excuse to buy that d1 for months. The only use for it I can think of is when a player voluntarily fails a save. And that only happens about once every never.

I'm just waiting for room in the budget. I don't need a use for it, beyond, "I would like to own it".

When the d34 first came out, I saw it in the game store, and said, "That's ridiculous. Nobody has a use for a 34-sided die. They just made that to find out if anybody is stupid enough to buy a die that has no use whatsoever.

"Gimme two."

Magic

2012-06-20, 01:02 AM

That's a very interesting thread.:smallsmile:

I think you should distinguish non-standard shaped dice with a standard number of faces (like the D4 shell (http://www.shapeways.com/model/258062/) or the D6 shell (http://www.shapeways.com/model/412271/)) from dice with a non-standard number of faces (like the D18 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/250323/l) or the D11 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/224115/)).

The first ones are easy to use with the current games they have just an original shape, the second ones have still to find an usage...:smalltongue:

I am trying to have some non-standard number of faces dice mass-produced, so that the price would be reasonable, and I am wondering which one you would like to see... and perhaps for what usage.

So let's say any dice could be feasable from 1 to 25 included (if you search on Shapeways, I am quite sure you'll find nearly all of them), could you please tell me which ones would be your favorite ones?

Jay R

2012-06-20, 12:59 PM

So let's say any dice could be feasable from 1 to 25 included (if you search on Shapeways, I am quite sure you'll find nearly all of them), could you please tell me which ones would be your favorite ones?

Good question. I already own a d3, d4, d5, d6, d7, d8, d10, d12, d14, d16, d20, and d24, so I'm left with 1, 2, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, and 25.

Any coin is a d2, and I already know what I'll get when I roll a d1. With a single roll of two currently owned dice, I can generate a 9, 15, 18, 21, or 25. That leaves the 11, 13, 17, 19, 22, and 23.

So the practical answer is the d11, which generates two of those numbers. But what does practicality have to do with the question? I've never actually used the d5, d7, d14, d16, d24, d34, d48, d60, or d120 to generate a number for a game.

I suspect that your best bet to get my money would be to sell the prime numbers as a set -- 11, 13, 17, 19, and 23.

VariaVespasa

2012-06-21, 10:08 AM

I only have the standard-sided gaming dice, but if you want non-standard numbers... As a result of some freak misprint in the factory I got a six-sided with a 1, a 4, three 5's and an 8 in my Avalon Hill "Victory In The Pacific" game. I always swore I'd give one of my players a special sword that used it in one of my campaigns sometimes.

Khedrac

2012-06-21, 10:50 AM

On I have been looking for for a few years is a dice (D3/D4/D12) on a rhombic dodecahdron.

It's more common in minerals than the traditional pentagonal dodecahedron (D12) to the point where my O level (that dates me - age 16 UK exam stopped in the mid 80s) geology teacher said pentagonal dodecahedron crystals like that did not occur in nature (he was wrong - my brother saw one in a university geology module).

Anyway it's a fun shape, all the faces are equivalent (so no tricks needed to make the dice fair) and has opposite faces (so one will be on top when resting on a flat surface).

The only potential drawback is they actually space fill (like D6s and no other standard die) so could get stuck in boxes more easily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombic_dodecahedron

Magic

2012-06-21, 05:21 PM

Thank you for your answers. Keep them coming... :smallsmile:

@Jay R: yes, prime numbers are a good idea. I am still missing the D23 to obtain your ideal set, but I will think about it... :smallbiggrin:

I am surprised you never used the D24 to decide a particular hour of the day for instance... I wanted to make one numbered 12am, 1am, 2am...11am, 12pm,1pm, 2pm...11pm.

@VariaVespasa: this is in effect a third category of dice: standard shape but non-standard numbering. I can't understand how a misprint could lead to such a strange numbering... I have only seen non-standard numbering for cheating, for nontransitive dice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontransitive_dice) and for a game called Formula D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_D_(board_game)).

@Khedrac: the rhombic dodecahedron has a very interesting shape (similar to the "regular" D30). Check this image (http://www.dicecollector.com/D12_OPAQUE_SHARP_SOLID_5_UNI_SUN_ASK_ASTRO.jpg) taken from Kevin Cook's website. I don't know where to buy them though...

Jay R

2012-06-21, 05:34 PM

@Jay R: I am surprised you never used the D24 to decide a particular hour of the day for instance... I wanted to make one numbered 12am, 1am, 2am...11am, 12pm,1pm, 2pm...11pm.

I never needed it. I usually use a d12. Nocturnal monsters attack in the dark; diurnal ones in the light.

@Khedrac: the rhombic dodecahedron has a very interesting shape (similar to the "regular" D30). Check this image (http://www.dicecollector.com/D12_OPAQUE_SHARP_SOLID_5_UNI_SUN_ASK_ASTRO.jpg) taken from Kevin Cook's website. I don't know where to buy them though...

The answer to "I don't don't know where to buy" some strange shape is usually shapeways.com (http://www.shapeways.com/). Here's the shape (http://www.shapeways.com/model/139969/rhombic-dodecahedron.html) and here's the die (http://www.shapeways.com/model/140242/rhombic-12-sided-die.html).

Dimers

2012-06-23, 11:42 AM

When the d34 first came out, I saw it in the game store, and said, "That's ridiculous. Nobody has a use for a 34-sided die."

Although if they gave us a 43-sided die, someone could use it to randomly determine which Vigilante spell is lost to energy drain ... :smallbiggrin:

LongVin

2012-06-23, 06:45 PM

Check our Kevin Cook's thread and website. He is a dice collector. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50601

Khedrac

2012-06-26, 04:40 AM

Standard shape but non-standard numbering...

I have seen a number of 12 sided D4s, usually numbers with I to IV to make them easy to tell apart (as well as less painful to step on).

Mistakes also happen: I also bought a box of 36 transparent orange D6 marked with spots and slightly over a year later discovered that one of them is wrong...

The "2" face is somewhat concave instead of flat, this led to the spot painter depositing extra paint in the middle - exactly the size of a normal spot.

As a result it is numbered: 1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6. I don't use it, but have kept it as an oddity.

Finally on the other side of non-standard dice I once visited a game store that had a box of loaded D6. They were obviously loaded (designed for shaking in a cup) and they said they had bought 20 loaded to 1 and 20 loaded to 6. Being curious I counted them - they still had 20 loaded to 1 and 1 loaded to 6.

Magic

2012-06-26, 03:25 PM

Standard shape but non-standard numbering...

I have seen a number of 12 sided D4s, usually numbers with I to IV to make them easy to tell apart (as well as less painful to step on).

On my side, I think everybody should use a dodecahedral D12 numbered twice for 1 to 6 (with two opposite faces having tha same number) instead of a cube as a D6.

The advanges are numerous:

- a dodechadron rolls better than a cube

- from a face you can reach any other number with the same (small) rotation (with a cube if you are on a 1 you have to do twice a 90° rotation to reach 6 and once this 90° rotation to reach any other number)

- the fact of engraving the numbers does not move the center of mass because two opposite faces have the same number, thus the same engraved shape

- even if you try to load this kind of dice by moving the center of mass, you will give better odds to a number (say 6) but worse odds to the same number (the opposite 6) making it difficult to get predictible results

:smallwink:

Jay R

2012-06-26, 05:52 PM

On my side, I think everybody should use a dodecahedral D12 numbered twice for 1 to 6 (with two opposite faces having tha same number) instead of a cube as a D6.

The advanges are numerous:

- a dodechadron rolls better than a cube

- from a face you can reach any other number with the same (small) rotation (with a cube if you are on a 1 you have to do twice a 90° rotation to reach 6 and once this 90° rotation to reach any other number)

- the fact of engraving the numbers does not move the center of mass because two opposite faces have the same number, thus the same engraved shape

- even if you try to load this kind of dice by moving the center of mass, you will give better odds to a number (say 6) but worse odds to the same number (the opposite 6) making it difficult to get predictible results

:smallwink:

It's an interesting idea, but it's much easier to make a precise cube than a precise dodecahedron, since 90 degree angles are standardized.

Rorrik

2012-06-27, 12:22 AM

Yea, I was really surprised when I bought a few packs of dice and one of them had a sneaky d3 in it. It's even got letters Q,R,S on it. Never sure what to use it for, except considered using the letters for logic statements.

Magic

2012-06-27, 12:36 AM

It's an interesting idea, but it's much easier to make a precise cube than a precise dodecahedron, since 90 degree angles are standardized.

Yes, I guess you are right. A dodecahedron is a nice but complex shape.

Yea, I was really surprised when I bought a few packs of dice and one of them had a sneaky d3 in it. It's even got letters Q,R,S on it. Never sure what to use it for, except considered using the letters for logic statements.

Are you sure it is not P, R, S ? Rock-paper-scissors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors)?

Rorrik

2012-06-27, 12:39 AM

Are you sure it is not P, R, S ? Rock-paper-scissors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors)?

That makes a lot more sense than logic statements. Yes, I believe it is a P now you mention it.

Magic

2012-06-28, 01:07 AM

The answer to "I don't don't know where to buy" some strange shape is usually shapeways.com (http://www.shapeways.com/). Here's the shape (http://www.shapeways.com/model/139969/rhombic-dodecahedron.html) and here's the die (http://www.shapeways.com/model/140242/rhombic-12-sided-die.html).

Yes, sure you can find anything you want on shapeways (and probably a couple of things you don't want too :smallbiggrin:). I was speaking about the mass-produced rhombic D12: I have no idea of who is selling it...

So to come back to mass-produced dice, and to sum up, between 2 and 25 faces, currently, you can find all but D9, D11, D13, D15, D17, D18, D19, D21, D22, D23, D25.

In this range, Togath seems interested into D15 and D25.

Jay R into prime ones as a set: D11, D13, D17, D19, and D23.

And out of this range, as far as I know, there is only D30, D50, D34 and D100 that are mass-produced and Dimers would like to see a D43 (I have no idea how do make this one, I confess).

Anything else?

Nepenthe

2012-06-28, 02:20 AM

Seconding the prime number set -- mostly for the novelty.

A d13 numbered 2-10, J, Q, K, A might be cool. Or for that matter, a d52 to simulate a full deck of cards.

Magic

2012-06-30, 09:05 AM

A d13 numbered 2-10, J, Q, K, A might be cool. Or for that matter, a d52 to simulate a full deck of cards.

Actually someone already asked me for such a D13. So it is available here (http://www.shapeways.com/model/528510/e8e5a079a09970694b6f04b3283e820d) but as a private model (you can only access it through this link).

D52... Why not...

Magic

2012-07-25, 03:21 PM

Hi again

I though you would like to know that two of my "Truncated Sphere" dice (with an unusual number of faces) are about to be mass-produced: the D14 and the D18. These two were among the most popular dice of my collection.

In order to make the injection molds, a KickStarter (http://kck.st/SSfJg0) project was created.

If the funding is successful other dice will follow: the D11 or the D15.

I am very excited about this, and I wanted to share with you!

BTW, this answers the question of the price: I know 3D printing is still expensive. Through this KickStarter project the prices are more than halfed and you got high quality dice.

Let me know what you think!

Cheers,

Magic

Melayl

2012-07-25, 04:00 PM

Good question. I already own a d3, d4, d5, d6, d7, d8, d10, d12, d14, d16, d20, and d24, so I'm left with 1, 2, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, and 25.

Any coin is a d2, and I already know what I'll get when I roll a d1. With a single roll of two currently owned dice, I can generate a 9, 15, 18, 21, or 25. That leaves the 11, 13, 17, 19, 22, and 23.

Actually, you can generate all of those numbers with currently owned dice...

11: 2d6-1

13:1d10+1d4-1

17:1d10+1d8-1

19:2d10-1

22:1d10+2d6-2

23: 1d20+1d4-1

----

Edit: that being said, if I had it in my budget, I'd buy the odd-shaped dice

----

Magic

2012-07-26, 01:59 AM

Well, as soon as you roll more than one die, the probability are no more linear: for example with 2D6-1 you have only one possibility to get the result 1 (roll two 1s) while you have more possibilities to get 6 as a result (roll 3 and 4 or roll 2 and 5 or roll 1 and 6).

So, 2D6-1 give the same range as 1D11, but not the same probability to reach one particular number in this range.

Melayl

2012-07-26, 11:31 AM

...I guess that's true. Huh. I hadn't thought about that. Does skew the results more to the middle ground.

I guess there's always the dice roller apps, but those aren't as fun as physically rolling dice.

Jay R

2012-07-28, 08:06 AM

Actually, you can generate all of those numbers with currently owned dice...

11: 2d6-1

13:1d10+1d4-1

17:1d10+1d8-1

19:2d10-1

22:1d10+2d6-2

23: 1d20+1d4-1

----

Edit: that being said, if I had it in my budget, I'd buy the odd-shaped dice

----

These don't give the same distribution. A single die gives an equal chance to each possibility. Rolling two dice does not.

For instance, a d11 would generate any number 1/11 of the time. But 2d6-1 generates a 1 or 11 1/36 of the time, and a 6 1/6 of the time. The same is true of all your examples.

So these do not replace having the single d11, d13, etc.

I could always replace them with an Excel function, but that's not the same thing.

And in any case, I'd like to own the die, totally apart from any sense of need. I've never needed to roll a d7, d14, d16, d24, d34, d48, d60, or d120 in a game. I just like to have them.

Magic

2012-08-27, 04:02 PM

Hi there,

These are the last 5 hours for the KickStarter (http://kck.st/SSfJg0) I mentionned in a previous message.

Along with the spherical D14 and D18 that where initally planned you will find a spherical D22 and also the spherical D7 that was unlocked today.

I want to thank here all the backers that made this KickStarter successfull.

:smallsmile:

Magic

Magic

2014-01-10, 03:39 AM

Hi all,

Impact! Miniatures launched a new Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/14-dice-sets-compatible-w-dungeon-crawl-classics-d) for 14 dice, compatible with Dungeon Crawl Classics, that should include these new dice: spherical D5, D16 and D24, and if the stretch goal is reached spherical D9 and D11.

Is it something you would be interested into?

Titanium Dragon

2014-01-13, 10:57 AM

The only fair dice, incidentally, are the platonic solids, the catalan solids (which can have 12, 24, 30, 48, 60, or 120 faces), bipyramids, trapezohedrons (think d10s, but with any number of faces greater than four), disphenoids (they can only be d4s, though), and rolling pin dice (the only way to get a fair die with an odd number of faces). Also tops, I suppose, though they are not exactly dice.

Any other die is going to be unfair, and in practice I suspect that trapezohedrons, bipyramids, and rolling pin dice are, practically speaking, limited in their number of faces, as beyond a certain point I suspect how you roll the die strong influences what face will show up due to the size necessary to make it clear which face is "upright".

CarpeGuitarrem

2014-01-13, 11:12 AM

...I guess that's true. Huh. I hadn't thought about that. Does skew the results more to the middle ground.

I guess there's always the dice roller apps, but those aren't as fun as physically rolling dice.

d3, d5, d7, d9, d11, and d19 are all feasible with standard dice: if it comes up as the highest value, reroll. But the funky dice are still fun.

(For that matter, technically all of those are possible with a d20 if you ignore results that are higher than the max value of the die. But that takes a lot of rerolling.)

Totema

2014-01-13, 11:23 PM

I've always wanted to get a perfect, rhombic dodecahedral garnet and get numbers lasered into it to make a true crystal d12. That would be some kind of collector's piece!

erikun

2014-01-15, 08:35 PM

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnYKVeb5v60) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSQIir5xxWc) might be interesting to watch.

Knaight

2014-01-15, 08:56 PM

d3, d5, d7, d9, d11, and d19 are all feasible with standard dice: if it comes up as the highest value, reroll. But the funky dice are still fun.

d3 and d5 are easier. Just roll a d6 or d10, divide by 2, round up. Technically speaking you can do that with the rest of the set, if you also have a d14, a d18, a d22, and a d38, but those aren't exactly standard.

d3, d5, d7, d9, d11, and d19 are all feasible with standard dice: if it comes up as the highest value, reroll. But the funky dice are still fun.

(For that matter, technically all of those are possible with a d20 if you ignore results that are higher than the max value of the die. But that takes a lot of rerolling.)

Really, that's the approach I (And I guess most others) take. I'm fairly sure you can't actually make a fair die for many values except the more common ones (which are still quite a lot)

If I want to throw a d1 I'd just roll a ball, really :smalltongue: (On the other hand, a d100 a friend owns is basically a ball with planar faces)

Khedrac

2014-01-16, 08:00 AM

d3 and d5 are easier. Just roll a d6 or d10, divide by 2, round up. Technically speaking you can do that with the rest of the set, if you also have a d14, a d18, a d22, and a d38, but those aren't exactly standard.

With D3 particularly it is worth having every player declare how they personally count it. I have seen players use three different methods to generate a D3 from a D6 so if not declared the temptation to choose after the roll may be a problem with some people...

For the curious, these are the methods:

1, 2 = 1; 3, 4 = 2; 5, 6 = 3 - the most common and the method I use.

1, 4 = 1; 2, 5 = 2; 3, 6 = 3 - 1-3 repeating, the next most common in my experience.

1, 6 = 1; 2, 5 = 2; 3, 4 = 3 - if the dice is 1-3 fine, if not flip it over. This generates the same pattern as a cube numbered 1-3 twice with opposite sides matching, a dice type of which I have 2.

Knaight

2014-01-17, 01:35 AM

With D3 particularly it is worth having every player declare how they personally count it. I have seen players use three different methods to generate a D3 from a D6 so if not declared the temptation to choose after the roll may be a problem with some people...

For the curious, these are the methods:

1, 2 = 1; 3, 4 = 2; 5, 6 = 3 - the most common and the method I use.

1, 4 = 1; 2, 5 = 2; 3, 6 = 3 - 1-3 repeating, the next most common in my experience.

1, 6 = 1; 2, 5 = 2; 3, 4 = 3 - if the dice is 1-3 fine, if not flip it over. This generates the same pattern as a cube numbered 1-3 twice with opposite sides matching, a dice type of which I have 2.

That's about what I'd expect. I tend to forget this, just because I have something to the tune of 35dF in my personal collection (I technically own 36dF, but I have absolutely no clue where one of them is). Those are marked +, blank, -, which is really easy to model a d3 with.

gjdolby

2016-05-26, 03:49 AM

Sometime back someone said (and someone replied):

When the d34 first came out, I saw it in the game store, and said, "That's ridiculous. Nobody has a use for a 34-sided die. They just made that to find out if anybody is stupid enough to buy a die that has no use whatsoever.

"Gimme two."

If you are going to buy d34s you want three.

3D34-2 is a percentile bell curve. There are others, like 11D10-10, but their concentrations at the centre is too great.

I am looking forward to getting a black D120.

Then I need to find a way to get my D200 made.

And ... that will do for now.

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