lunar2
2012-06-17, 03:08 PM
The authors of the various monster manuals definitely didn't do even the slightest comparison between various similar monsters, or else this would have never happened.
FIRE GIANT
Large Giant (Fire)
Hit Dice: 15d8+75 (142 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 30 ft. in half plate armor (6 squares); base speed 40 ft.
Armor Class: 23 (–1 size, –1 Dex, +8 natural, +7 half-plate armor) touch 8, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+25
Attack: Greatsword +20 melee (3d6+15) or slam +20 melee (1d4+10) or rock +10 ranged (2d6+10 plus 2d6 fire)
Full Attack: Greatsword +20/+15/+10 melee (3d6+15) or 2 slams +20 melee
(1d4+10) or rock +10 ranged (2d6+10 plus 2d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rock throwing
Special Qualities: Immunity to fire, low-light vision, rock catching, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +4, Will +9
Abilities: Str 31, Dex 9, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 11
Skills: Climb +9, Craft (any one) +6, Intimidate +6, Jump +9, Spot +14
Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack
Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–9 plus 35% noncombatants
plus 1 adept or cleric of 1st or 2nd level), hunting/raiding party (6–9 plus 1 adept or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level plus 2–4 hell hounds and 2–3 trolls or ettins), or tribe (21–30 plus 1 adept, cleric, or sorcerer of 6th or 7th level plus 12–30 hell hounds, 12–22 trolls, 5–12 ettins, and 1–2 young red dragons)
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Often lawful evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
Sand Giant
Large Giant (Earth, Fire)
Hit Dice: 15d8+75 (142 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft.
Armor Class: 28 (–1 size, +5 Dex, +11 natural, +3 masterwork studded leather) touch 14, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+23
Attack: Scimitar +19 melee (1d8+8/15–20); or sand blaster (see text)
Full Attack: Scimitar +19/+14/+9 melee, or sand blaster
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Sand blaster, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Heat shimmer, immunity to fire, low-light vision, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +10
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +1*, Knowledge (nature) +11, Climb +29, Listen +12, Spot +12, Survival +12* (+14 in aboveground natural environments)
Feats: Cleave, Improved Critical (scimitar), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Environment: Warm deserts
Organization: Solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–9 plus 35% noncombatants), settlement 10–40 sand giants plus 1 monarch and 3–4 fighters of 3rd–5th level)
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
sand giants have 4 less strength, 12 higher dexterity, the same constitution, the same intelligence, 2 higher wisdom, and 2 higher charisma. their natural armor is 3 higher, they get a couple of spell like abilities, and a better ranged weapon. both giants have the same HD, CR, and LA, and yet the sand giant is clearly much more powerful.
I'd heard that monster manual 3 was off with CRs and LAs, but this is just weird.
FIRE GIANT
Large Giant (Fire)
Hit Dice: 15d8+75 (142 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 30 ft. in half plate armor (6 squares); base speed 40 ft.
Armor Class: 23 (–1 size, –1 Dex, +8 natural, +7 half-plate armor) touch 8, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+25
Attack: Greatsword +20 melee (3d6+15) or slam +20 melee (1d4+10) or rock +10 ranged (2d6+10 plus 2d6 fire)
Full Attack: Greatsword +20/+15/+10 melee (3d6+15) or 2 slams +20 melee
(1d4+10) or rock +10 ranged (2d6+10 plus 2d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rock throwing
Special Qualities: Immunity to fire, low-light vision, rock catching, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +4, Will +9
Abilities: Str 31, Dex 9, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 11
Skills: Climb +9, Craft (any one) +6, Intimidate +6, Jump +9, Spot +14
Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack
Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–9 plus 35% noncombatants
plus 1 adept or cleric of 1st or 2nd level), hunting/raiding party (6–9 plus 1 adept or sorcerer of 3rd–5th level plus 2–4 hell hounds and 2–3 trolls or ettins), or tribe (21–30 plus 1 adept, cleric, or sorcerer of 6th or 7th level plus 12–30 hell hounds, 12–22 trolls, 5–12 ettins, and 1–2 young red dragons)
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Often lawful evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
Sand Giant
Large Giant (Earth, Fire)
Hit Dice: 15d8+75 (142 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), burrow 10 ft.
Armor Class: 28 (–1 size, +5 Dex, +11 natural, +3 masterwork studded leather) touch 14, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+23
Attack: Scimitar +19 melee (1d8+8/15–20); or sand blaster (see text)
Full Attack: Scimitar +19/+14/+9 melee, or sand blaster
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Sand blaster, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Heat shimmer, immunity to fire, low-light vision, vulnerability to cold
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +10
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +1*, Knowledge (nature) +11, Climb +29, Listen +12, Spot +12, Survival +12* (+14 in aboveground natural environments)
Feats: Cleave, Improved Critical (scimitar), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Environment: Warm deserts
Organization: Solitary, gang (2–5), band (6–9 plus 35% noncombatants), settlement 10–40 sand giants plus 1 monarch and 3–4 fighters of 3rd–5th level)
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
sand giants have 4 less strength, 12 higher dexterity, the same constitution, the same intelligence, 2 higher wisdom, and 2 higher charisma. their natural armor is 3 higher, they get a couple of spell like abilities, and a better ranged weapon. both giants have the same HD, CR, and LA, and yet the sand giant is clearly much more powerful.
I'd heard that monster manual 3 was off with CRs and LAs, but this is just weird.