How has he got so many feats.

[Jonsnowghost]

I am about to start playing in a new game of D&D 3.5 with some friends, really looking forward to it, the setting is great, the GM is always good, however we are playing with someone who is a notorious cheat, doesn't matter what he is playing, D&D, Magic the Gathering, House on Haunted Hill..... he has cheated at them all, he has just posted his character online and I can't understand where he has gotten all these feats from, usually I wouldn't have even noticed but as I said he is famous for this kind of thing and I wanted to check I wasn't just being paranoid before I took any complaints to the GM.

Race: Human
Class: Monk 6
Age: 26
Deity: N/A
Alignment: LG
Abilities: STR 14, DEX 15, CON 13, WIS 17, INT 13, CHA 10
HP: 41
BAB: +4
Fort: +6 (immune to disease), Ref: +7, Will: +8 (+10 against enchantment)
AC: 23, Touch: 17, Flat-footed: 15

Feats: Sacred Vow (Book of Exalted Deeds), Vow of Poverty (BoED), Pain Touch (CW), Improved Natural Attack (DMG)

Bonus Feats: Stunning Fist (PHB), Improved Unarmed Strike (PHB), Touch of Golden Ice(BoED), Intuitive Attack (BoED), Sanctify Ki Strike (BoED), Fist of the Heavens (BoED), Deflect Arrows (PHB), Improved Disarm (PHB)

Special:
Voluntary poverty (BoED), flurry of blows, unarmed strike, evasion, still mind, ki strike (magic), slow fall 30ft, purity of body

Attack:
Unarmed +8 (+7/+7) 2d6+3 x2

Equipment:
Rags, quarterstaff

Skills (54 pts):
Balance +12, Diplomacy +8, Escape Artist +10, Listen +11, Spot +11, Tumble +10

Any help would be appreciated.

[VGLordR2]

1 from Human
3 from levels
4 from Monk
4 from Vow of Poverty

Seems to check out.

[bobthe6th]

well... because VoP gives you bonus feats?
you get one at first level if you have both sacred vow and VoP, plus another every few levels(to lazy to look it up). Then monk gives bonus feats....
not seeing it as totally excessive...

[Worira]

A mix of monk bonus feats and bonus feats from Vow of Poverty. It seems fine.

[Krazzman]

He is Human: +1
Level 6: +3
Vow: +4
And the 4 more or less "fixed" from the Class itself.

It's all "fair". Except for him playing a monk but...

[Jonsnowghost]

Thanks everyone, thats is sorted now then, as I said anyone else I wouldn't have batted an eyelid but as long as I know it is legit and he isn't just taking advantage of a lax Gm its cool.

[Frog Dragon]

Vow of Poverty.

As you may have noticed, he has basically no equipment. That slew of feats comes from Vow Of Poverty, which basically deprives him of almost all items in exchange for giving a scaling set of bonuses (this tradeoff is not really worth it, especially for a monk).

In this case, since he took Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty at first level, he gains bonus exalted feats at levels 1, 2, 4 and 6. This would seem to add up.

As you describe him as a "notorious cheat" it sounds like he ran into this feat and went "OMGWTFBBQ so many benefits in one feat!" and took it, not realizing exactly how powerful Wealth by Level really is.

Edit: Looks like swordsaging still is the forum sport.

[Flickerdart]

It's not like the bonus feats are free - he has to remain Exalted to keep them, and that means being more Good than Good characters already are.

[Jonsnowghost]

Also how does my character stack up to his then in terms of power

Race: Human
Class: 2 Rogue/3 Swashbuckler/1 Avenger
Alignment: LG
Abilities: TBD
HP: TBD
BAB: +4
Fort: +3
Ref: +6
Will: +2

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Craven, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Daring Outlaw

Special: Sneak Attack 4D6, Trapfinding, Grace +1, Insightful Strike, Evasion, Death Attack, Poison Use, Avenger Spells

Also lots of skills, and building towards getting a hidden blade.

[Lucid]

Well, the number of feats check out, but he doesn't qualify for Sanctify Ki Strike and thus also not for Fist of the Heavens.

Sanctify Ki Strike requires Cha 15 and Ki Strike(lawful), which a monk doesn't gain until lvl 10.

Still, he's a VoP monk, not really something worth worrying about.

[Garwain]

He doesn't qualify for Sanctify Ki Strike until level 10 exalted bonus feat. So yes, that's an error you can point out.

But then again... he will be in the thick of it, claiming invincibility with his exalted armor, and you can benefit by using his flank to sneak attack. Who cares about powerfull? Join teams togheter. (and roll high on your sneak attack once in the round he has missed with his flurry, har har har)

[Flickerdart]

Why are you bothering with Daring Outlaw if you're multiclassing into Avenger anyhow? The only reason I could see is using INT to damage as a reason to pump INT, and also getting Death Attack DC up that way, but it's not that much of a reason. I recommend taking Shadow Blade instead for DEX to damage, and taking more Rogue levels.

Neither of you is very strong, but at least your attacks (probably at +7 to hit at well, at least - 18 Dexterity, then a pair of masterwork or +1 short swords, less the TWF penalty - doing at least 5d6+6 damage per swing) outclass his, assuming that you can get him or someone else to flank with you.

For AC, you'll be able to get yours comparable to his fairly easily (+4 Dexterity, +5 magic chain shirt, +1 ring, +1 amulet of NA = only 2 points lower).

[Frog Dragon]

You should stack up fine, though I'm not sure how much Avenger adds to a Daring Outlaw build, since Avenger doesn't count for the feat.

Regardless, you will probably hit more often and harder, though he may have a little more AC. You will have more out-of-combat utility. Your build is probably better than his.

[Jonsnowghost]

If I don't take Daring Outlaw, I start the game with only 2D6 Sneak Attack Damage, plus I will eventually be swinging back round for some more levels in Swashbuckler, Avenger was really only for Death Attack and Avenger Spells, I am heading towards Invisible Blade using the Dragon Magazine variant were the prerequisite is Weapon Finesse instead of Far Shot.

[CTrees]

I'm honestly surprised there's no flaws being taken, for more bonus feats.

[Flickerdart]

If I don't take Daring Outlaw, I start the game with only 2D6 Sneak Attack Damage, plus I will eventually be swinging back round for some more levels in Swashbuckler, Avenger was really only for Death Attack and Avenger Spells, I am heading towards Invisible Blade using the Dragon Magazine variant were the prerequisite is Weapon Finesse instead of Far Shot.
Your Death Attack DC and Avenger spells will be negligible if you take any less than 10 levels, which makes Daring Outlaw supremely pointless. Why do you want Swashbuckler, anyway?

[Slipperychicken]

It's not like the bonus feats are free - he has to remain Exalted to keep them, and that means being more Good than Good characters already are.

Not to mention losing his items, which I keep hearing can give you better benefits than VoP, plus even more.

If this is your friends idea of Super Mega Awesome Build, just let him keep thinking that until he runs into something that can fly and shoot him to death from range.

[Vladislav]

There is a viewpoint that Improved Natural Attack doesn't apply to unarmed strikes. RAW is hazy on this. Ask the DM in advance to be sure.

[Telonius]

Also how does my character stack up to his then in terms of power
Class: 2 Rogue/3 Swashbuckler/1 Avenger
(snip)

Does not appear to have "Commoner" or "Truenamer" written anywhere ... you're likely more powerful.

I also see "Craven" on the list of feats. So yeah, you're not going to be outshined by him.

For your friend, there are a lot of bonus Exalted feats to start off with, but here's the thing: they're never really all that great, and by around level 10 or so you start running out of useful ones. Really, pick up BoED, and turn to the Feat section. Try to find the good ones he hasn't taken already. Holy Ki Strike is about the only one.

After that, he could:

- take another Vow, which will further restrict how he can act, and give bonuses to already-high saving throws. (He's already probably making those saves, why pile on?)
- Take Nymph's Kiss, which is nice, but would probably make him ineligible for Vow of Chastity. Also, you might as well give the Nymph a giant blinking "Hey BBEG, Please Kidnap Me!" sign.
- start glowing in the dark with Nimbus of Light, with the aim of either doing a whole 1d4 damage to undead with Holy Radiance, or get Stigmata and heal your friends by injuring yourself in a way that also decreases your Fort save, and that only a Cleric or a full night's rest could recover. (And if your Cleric can cast that, why isn't he casting a Cure spell?!).
- get Quell the Profane ... if he decides to take Power Attack and Resounding Blow - as normal feats, not bonus VoP feats - first.
- get Vow of Nonviolence (mostly useless except for Stun DC) and/or Vow of Peace (which will cause his team to hate him).

[Curmudgeon]

There is a viewpoint that Improved Natural Attack doesn't apply to unarmed strikes. RAW is hazy on this. Ask the DM in advance to be sure.
The RAW is not hazy at all on this point.

You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike.
You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang).
Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strike’s damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)
A fanged ring grants its wearer the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and the Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) feat. There you have multiple RAW citations showing that an unarmed strike is a natural weapon and thus qualifies for Improved Natural Attack, and even an item which specifically grants that feat for unarmed strike.

[Vladislav]

Ah, I see. In that case, be sure to show the above post to the GM if he has doubts ... :smallbiggrin: