A Necromancer goes Shopping (and other RP scenarios)

[333]

I have a few questions for what you guys do when RPing as a Necromancer (not necessarily evil) or other character with companions normally unwelcome in a city or anywhere else in society?

In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?

Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)?

Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?

What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?

Ever had a favorite summoned/created/animated companion that wasn't optimized but was still fun?

basically, any fun stories about playing a hero who kept some strange company?

[JoshuaZ]

I have a few questions for what you guys do when RPing as a Necromancer (not necessarily evil) or other character with companions normally unwelcome in a city or anywhere else in society?

In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?

You don't. You leave your minions outside the city, or have them stay in the sewers or something. If you absolutely must bring them in, then you use illusion spells to make them look normal.



Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)

A lot of places will smell so bad that no one is going to notice anyways (in many European cities both bodily waste and dead animals were routinely dumped in the streets. This was also true in some parts of the Middle East). But if this is an issue, a cantrip and some perfume can work wonders.



Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?

People you've killed, or dig up bodies when no one is looking.


What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?

This depends on the setting and such. Most merchants probably aren't going to ask why you are buying something. You can buy it along with other precious gems or the like to disguise the fact that you're primarily interested in onyx. Alternatively, you can buy large high quality pieces and claim you are going to craft it. In high powered settings the merchants who are selling onyx may actually know exactly what it means for an apparent spellcaster to buy it, but they don't care because they are making money. In some contexts, trade in onyx might actually be regulated for exactly this reason.

[hoverfrog]

Necromancy is considered an evil act. Walking around with the undead remains of uncle Albert as you minion should get you a hostile reaction from almost anyone. There are some ways around this but they involve tweeting the campaign and getting your DM to agree to it. Have necromancy seen as a necessary evil. In Eberron the nation of Karrnath was forced to use the corpses of the dead to boost their armies in the Last War. Entire forts were manned with intelligent Karrnathi zombies and skeletons and they were used extensively in defence. It is not a stretch to see the society changing to accept the presence of undead in such things as manual labour or even in automation. An simple skeleton can go into the woods in the thick of winter to cut down a dozens trees. It'll keep doing it till it breaks or it runs out of trees. That's useful and people might change their views on undead as a result.

If that isn't the option then you need a disguise. Lepers are bandaged and wear coverings. Cover your undead with bandages and robes and stick a sign over them saying leper. People will stay away. They'll also probably try to drive you out of town too.

Failing that disguise your minions as monks or priests and tell people that they have taken a vow of silence (and not washing) which might work if they aren't shambling zombies.

You could try hiding in plain sight. Stick them in armour that is elaborately decorated with bones and other symbols of the dead. Have some illusions on the minions make them look human. Make it known that your guards are fearsome warriors enchanted with powerful magics over death and that in battle they often appear as the dead returning from the grave. If someone sees through the illusions tell them that they are merely seeing the magic of the armour in effect.

A prestidigitation should be able to mask the smell and keep the noise of the minions sounding normal.


Where do you get the corpses for your army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero? My victims. Anyone who dies is added to the undead horde.


What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?Nothing at all. I pay good prices for goods, why would they ask questions? You do know where the merchants you deal with live, don't you. Anyone who gets too nosey might make a handy addition to your undead horde.


Ever had a favorite summoned/created/animated companion that wasn't optimized but was still fun?I don't much care for optimised anything. It's all about the fun.

[333]

I've been on a necromancer kick for a while, looking for interesting additions to my undead army. One thought that struck me as both cool and creepy would be to have him "adopt" a slaymate, then give it a construct teddy bear as a weapon XD

[JoshuaZ]

I've been on a necromancer kick for a while, looking for interesting additions to my undead army. One thought that struck me as both cool and creepy would be to have him "adopt" a slaymate, then give it a construct teddy bear as a weapon XD

You could really have him adopt the slaymate. Say defeating a necromancer who made the slaymate in the first place and treated it badly. You could really turn up the creepy factor with having the slaymate think you were its daddy or something and keep asking when mommy is coming back.

[333]

You could really have him adopt the slaymate. Say defeating a necromancer who made the slaymate in the first place and treated it badly. You could really turn up the creepy factor with having the slaymate think you were its daddy or something and keep asking when mommy is coming back.

O.O I love this idea. and upon further inspection, a tomb mote would make a nice undead teddy bear.

EDIT: on an unrelated note, what would you guys suggest for a necromancer wanting to wear some armor but not wanting to deal with arcane spell failure? he'd be a multiclass cleric, so having some armor would be nice.

[Sewercop]

basically, any fun stories about playing a hero who kept some strange company?

We were a big group(8-10 guys and gals) playing 3.5 some years ago in a pretty lethal campaign,
not everyone showed up every time so it worked pretty well. But as you can imagine, not everyone has the same level of system knowledge. Two players kept getting slain over and over due to horrible characters from a mechanical view.
Thats when we set the benchmark for being allowed to join us on adventures,
we animated one of the dead players as a skeleton and dumped leftover gear on it and said:

You need to defeat our butler to be able to ride with us :)
The butler being the lame ass skeleton dressed in leftover loot.

The messed up part, the skeleton in leftover gear contributed more to the party then some players after we awakened it.. Oh well, fun times.

[Ryulin18]

I had the cliche neutral evil cleric. My idea for getting around having undead with me was all of us to wear white robes and masks. Anyone that asked what was happening, I told them we were clerics of a foreign god and my companions were under an oath of silence.

To get around the moaning and smell, I stitched there mouths shut and removed there voice boxes. I also soaked each body in a bath of lemon juice and salt to pickle them. No more smell.

Onyx was tricky. I had my character buy out a share of a quarry and just took a share of the onyx whenever they hit a seam. screw buying it.

[Madara]

O.O I love this idea. and upon further inspection, a tomb mote would make a nice undead teddy bear.

EDIT: on an unrelated note, what would you guys suggest for a necromancer wanting to wear some armor but not wanting to deal with arcane spell failure? he'd be a multiclass cleric, so having some armor would be nice.

What race are you? What class is going next to the cleric?(and why multiclass?)


Necromancy is considered an evil act.

Nope. You're wrong there. Animate Dead is, and as explained in one of the necromancy guides, its wrongfully labeled "Evil".

[hoverfrog]

Nope. You're wrong there. Animate Dead is, and as explained in one of the necromancy guides, its wrongfully labeled "Evil".Not for the mechanics of the game but for the average Joe or city guard in the street who hears necromancy and thinks zombie apocalypse.

[Necroticplague]

The way I always dealt with the difficulties of having minions is to make all the powerful enemies incorporeal undead, like ghosts,wraiths, and shadows, while turning the weaker ones into haunting presences on some part of our gear.By the time that campaign ended, pretty much anything that had moving parts was unmanned by virtue of a low level haunting presence it under my control, including vehicles for every situation.

[Crasical]

For some reason our DM hasn't had any NPC really notice or react to my Psion's self-proclaimed title of Bandit Queen, her surname being that of a familial clan of psychic thieves and pirates, and the horde of small humanoid constructs following her around serving her every whim. I've just kind of rolled with it.

[333]

What race are you? What class is going next to the cleric?(and why multiclass?)


Either Gray Elf or Illumian with the necropolitan template. Cloistered Cleric(UA) with the Academic Priest feat from Dragon Lance, combined with either an elven generalist wizard or a specialist necromancer(with the sacrificed schools being ones that are covered by the cleric). Multi-classing A) Personal preference, B) Small party, so each character has to try and cover multiple roles, C) Access to the fun necromancy spells such as Magic Jar, Clone, Trap the Soul, combined with the Cleric's healing (Both of my allies and myself and my undead), etc.

If it were possible to for me to play the role of healer and necromancer, and have plenty of access to my favorite necromancy spells, I'd be willing to skip multi-classing.

@Ryulin: Once I get access to that spell level, I'll hafta have my necromancer use that idea about the onyx mine!

[deuxhero]

Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?


The butcher and the hunter.


Seriously. I never understood the obsession with human undead, when animals are FAR better for their hit die.

Actually, Butcher is an excellent "cover" profession

[333]

The butcher and the hunter.


Seriously. I never understood the obsession with human undead, when animals are FAR better for their hit die.

Actually, Butcher is an excellent "cover" profession

Human undead are aesthetic, but I'll admit I never thought about using animals as my undead minions. Thanks!

Keep 'em coming, these ideas are great!

[Crasical]

Human undead are aesthetic, but I'll admit I never thought about using animals as my undead minions. Thanks!

Keep 'em coming, these ideas are great!

How much internet do your friends browse? Because Chuck Testa jokes.

[Little Brother]

Either Gray Elf or Illumian with the necropolitan template. Cloistered Cleric(UA) with the Academic Priest feat from Dragon Lance, combined with either an elven generalist wizard or a specialist necromancer(with the sacrificed schools being ones that are covered by the cleric). Multi-classing A) Personal preference, B) Small party, so each character has to try and cover multiple roles, C) Access to the fun necromancy spells such as Magic Jar, Clone, Trap the Soul, combined with the Cleric's healing (Both of my allies and myself and my undead), etc.Remember, with Illumian, or the Alternative Source Spell feat, you can qualify for Theurge as Wizard 3/Cleric 1(Well, Illumians need less, but you know what I mean). You might want to build a Wizard/Archivist, though. More synergy and power.

Also, you MUST spellstitch Animate Dread Warrior. Seriously, it is the best necro spell, like, ever.

If it were possible to for me to play the role of healer and necromancer, and have plenty of access to my favorite necromancy spells, I'd be willing to skip multi-classing.Theurges are awesome. It gets my support.

@Ryulin: Once I get access to that spell level, I'll hafta have my necromancer use that idea about the onyx mine!You could go with just dominating the owner. Or, kill him in a non-obvious manner(I like poison), then Animate Dread Warrior. Then have him give it to you. Simple.

The butcher and the hunter.


Seriously. I never understood the obsession with human undead, when animals are FAR better for their hit die.

Actually, Butcher is an excellent "cover" professionClass levels.

Though, specific undead are better than template ones, really. And stronger animals have huge HD-power ratio. Compare the Battletitan with a Revered Elder Phaerimm(Which has spells which can improve their natural attacks, so it might keep them as a zombie. If so, do the same with Solars), or any of the powerful outsiders.

[GolemsVoice]

Adding to all the points the others have made about subterfuge. stealth and illusions, a particularly cruel and powerful necromancer could also say: "Too bad about those bandits raiding your caravans. Seems like no one else can help you. I could, but, well, I work with the dead. So why don't you give me some of yours? They're dead, they don't care, and this way, they get to serve their city once more. It's not like you have any options."

[Aotrs Commander]

My (neutral) and somewhat unbalanced Pale Master used primarily monster skeletons (and occasionally dead Evil humanoids), and he'd just leave a sign with "property of Invagrion, please do not destroy" and put 'em the stables or something (under orders not to do anything). (Invagrion wase/is a bit funny in the head, and a bit of a proponent of "Undead yes, unpeople no...")

Mind you, he was also the one that covered his favourite troll skeleton in a unconvincing giant robe made of canvas or something and tried to pass it off as a "robe golem..."

[333]

My (neutral) and somewhat unbalanced Pale Master used primarily monster skeletons (and occasionally dead Evil humanoids), and he'd just leave a sign with "property of Invagrion, please do not destroy" and put 'em the stables or something (under orders not to do anything). (Invagrion wase/is a bit funny in the head, and a bit of a proponent of "Undead yes, unpeople no...")

Mind you, he was also the one that covered his favourite troll skeleton in a unconvincing giant robe made of canvas or something and tried to pass it off as a "robe golem..."

Robe Golem. That's just funny. and so is the sign XD

EDIT: while i have your attention, what qualifies as restful for an undead caster? is there anything useful I could do at night without preventing my access to spells the next day?

And normally I'm a fan of the archivist/wizard theurge but as a necromancer, I want the deathbound domain granted power.

[Aotrs Commander]

Robe Golem. That's just funny. and so is the sign XD

EDIT: while i have your attention, what qualifies as restful for an undead caster? is there anything useful I could do at night without preventing my access to spells the next day?

Don't think so, given that (say) Elves who trance still have to basically do nothing for four more hours.


And normally I'm a fan of the archivist/wizard theurge but as a necromancer, I want the deathbound domain granted power.

Just a point of note: Pale Master is a bit meh in other respects (it's not bad per se), but Animate Dead as an SLA is GOLD. Why? Because as an SLA it doesn't require material components. Thus giving you free skeletons daily, without having to invest in all those onyx stones. I felt that was worth one caster progression loss (and there are a few other toys, like immunity to nonlethal damage, which is hi-larious in bar fights).

There's also Undead Leadership, which of course, could be argued to be the most ludicrously powerful class feature, given it's basically Leadership, but with Undead. (Even with Invagrion's dismal charisma, I found a way to cheese a potential Lich cohort (the use of cheese was specifically to (legally in mechanics) get a Lich Cleric in at ECL 7, and could then be gotten rid of). Main reason was soley that with Invagrion having the phylactery, minion could be killinated a lot without worrying too much about having to acquire a new cohort every time, since you can't y'know Raise Undead minions.))

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?
Put them in a Bag of Holding. They can be dumped out easy enough if you run into trouble.


Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)?
Prestidigitation, or just plain ol' soap.


Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?
Animating humanoids is a waste of time. You animate big nasty monsters with lots of natural attacks and/or HD. Stuff you've killed yourself, or use Gather Information or just conversations to find out if any local adventurers have killed anything like that and where.


What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?
Even in this modern age, any sort of contraband that could have a legitimate use can be easily obtained from a less-reputable shop despite their standard uses being completely illegal. There's money to be made in legal contraband, so someone will definitely be selling it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Put them in a Bag of Holding. They can be dumped out easy enough if you run into trouble.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that. One of Invagrion's early purchases (well, as soon as he could afford it anyway) was a Portable Hole, storing (medium and small) skeletons for the usage of. Me and the DM agreed that it was a bit krypton factor getting 'em all in and out (I had quite a few), and was definately and out-of-combat action, but it was a good place to keep the chaff.


Animating humanoids is a waste of time. You animate big nasty monsters with lots of natural attacks and/or HD. Stuff you've killed yourself, or use Gather Information or just conversations to find out if any local adventurers have killed anything like that and where.

I used 'em early on, because you could give them bows and massed fire was sometimes worth it. Kit aside (some of it looted), as a Pale Master, they were free, and they had other uses like menial labour (or, in one case, clearing out a room full of poisonous snakes (which couldn't do enough damage to hurt them) while the rest of the party had a cup of tea and put their feet up!)

But yeah, their combat utility rapidly degrades and you're better off with monster skeletons where you can get 'em, but if you don't pay for 'em like I didn't, it's worth filling your spare slots with 'em.

[333]

@Aotrs: I know having it free of charge is amazing, that's why I intend to spell stitch it into myself, my familiar, and any undead cohorts! If I wasn't planning on theurging I would love to do a pale master, it's not a terrible class, and the undead leadership is pretty awesome

[Hand_of_Vecna]

. . .what you guys do when RPing as a Necromancer (not necessarily evil) or other character with companions normally unwelcome in a city or anywhere else in society?

1.Not tell anyone I'm a (insert blank) and dress appropriatly for a cover profession.

2.Be extremely courteous, but refuse to hide my profession try to talk people down when they confront me and humble them when that fails. Tons of movie protagonists do this.



In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?

Assuming I'm being secretive? Cloaks and hoods possibly masks. I might try to pose them as members of some well known mysterious organization gotta be careful and not catch the attention of the real thing of course.


Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)?

Prestidigitation, alternatively lots of alchohol then killing two birds with one stone by explaining a stagger.


Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero? Orcs, Bandits etc.


What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?

I've never played in a game where this was a issue. I've always assumed that either necros were rare enough that buying onyx didn't send up red flags or there were enough of them that they had a decent black as a thousand midnights market.


Ever had a favorite summoned/created/animated companion that wasn't optimized but was still fun?
I'm a big fan of crawling claw menial servants.

[Alienist]

Necromancy is always defined as an evil act because channeling negative energy makes the universe sad.

No, seriously, that's pretty much the RAW explanation for why Animate Undead is evil, and Fireball isn't.

From the point of view of restricting components, if I was to put myself in the imaginary clothes of the emperor (as it were), I'd be far more inclined to restrict trade in Bat Guano than Onyx. A fireball might kill me with one shot, whereas a skeleton certainly wouldn't (and I'd have guards and stuff). There are built in limits to how much Animate Dead can do, and those limits are ridiculously low.

One fireball can easily wipe out 20 skeletons/zombies. Or, you know, toss some clerics at him. Clerics, incidentally, being the reason that you need at least +4 turn resistance for your minions, since that way they have to be a 10th level cleric before they can instantly disintegrate your minions simply by waggling their eyebrows at you. Of course, since it takes you till 8th level before you can make said skeletons in the first place (if Sorc/Dread Necro etc), pretty much immediately after you raise them you are going to be facing enemies that can blow them away without any effort, so it's not hard to argue that unless you have two of the +4 turn resistance things stacking, that your minions are going to be a big suckful sound of sucking on your resources. :-(

Hence, bigger minions (Ogres, Hydras etc) are generally a better choice, but they are even harder to disguise, since even if you disguise them as not undead, you still have the "eek it's an ogre" problem (aka the Shrek dilemma).

The bag of holding might solve that problem, or the DM might say that the ogre is too large to fit through the opening (which seems a perfectly reasonable DM response).

Acquiring the corpses: if in Eberron you can buy various dinos as war mounts, there's no reason you couldn't buy 'used' ones.

[Mithril Leaf]

As a chaotic neutral character with access to Hyperconscious, this thread has been very interesting to me. I'm playing a shaper psion in my upcoming game and picking up necromancy should be a good way to augment my poisons. The psionic lich template in that book has no level adjustment and the power psianimate dead lacks those costly material components. Plus I get to pick up turn undead via my levels in ghostbreaker.
I do have two questions that seem to fit here.
Are there any good undead to animate if the power just makes the creature undead and strips it of class features and SU abilities and SLAs?
Additionally, is there any way to convert turn undead into rebuke undead without having some sort of cleric alignment mumbo jumbo involved?

I'm personally liking the idea of using undead to serve in my opium den. I think a few well preserved bodies that died of black lotus extract might make good staff. Plus, a hydra make a nice bouncer. Screaming deal per HD.

[333]

Oh. My. God. I found the secret to the ultimate DnD Zerg rush.

Horned Harbinger. If all you want to do is create and control undead this class does it very well. I mean, ridiculously well. In exchange for 10 levels of casting (In other words, this class is very focused on zerg rushing, at this point it's your only option) you can control CL x 10 HD of undead. The qualifications aren't to bad either, except for having to touch a one of a kind artifact.

Also, you gain all the undead creation spells as SLAs. And your CL for this purpose stacks with your cleric levels.

At level 15, you can control 150 HD of undead. Combine with Deathbound and thats 300 HD. Desecrate, 600 HD. Rod of Undead Mastery, 1200 HD. Any other tricks? use 'em. You're only good at one thing, but good gods you are good at it! At this point you can swarm almost any encounter with low level undead and auto-win. Not to mention you can cast your undead making spells from range, and you gain a number of bonus feats. If this class offered spell caster progression, I would marry it.

[Mithril Leaf]

Oh. My. God. I found the secret to the ultimate DnD Zerg rush.

Horned Harbinger. If all you want to do is create and control undead this class does it very well. I mean, ridiculously well. In exchange for 10 levels of casting (In other words, this class is very focused on zerg rushing, at this point it's your only option) you can control CL x 10 HD of undead. The qualifications aren't to bad either, except for having to touch a one of a kind artifact.

Also, you gain all the undead creation spells as SLAs. And your CL for this purpose stacks with your cleric levels.

At level 15, you can control 150 HD of undead. Combine with Deathbound and thats 300 HD. Desecrate, 600 HD. Rod of Undead Mastery, 1200 HD. Any other tricks? use 'em. You're only good at one thing, but good gods you are good at it! At this point you can swarm almost any encounter with low level undead and auto-win. Not to mention you can cast your undead making spells from range, and you gain a number of bonus feats. If this class offered spell caster progression, I would marry it.

CL X 10 HD isn't that good when you lose out on 10 caster levels. even with practiced caster you can only get up 140. A dread necromancer can get that pretty easily if he's got even a minimally optimized charisma score.

[Krazzman]

You want to heal and be a necromancer?

How about Tomb Tainted Soul Dread Necromancer? Having an unlimited negative energy attack seems pretty awesome for healing yourself and your minions. Bonus Points: if your party takes also tomb tainted soul you can heal them. Additional Bonus Points: You can get profiency with scythes and can wear at least leather armor. AFAIK you also can get your wanted favourite spells as the class has a fixed list + certain bonus spells choosen by you under restrictions.

In unearthed arcana there is a Wizard variant where you get an elite skeleton warrior as Undead Companion. With the right feats that thing outperformed our fighter...

Hope this helps.

[killianh]

Wait a minute. You're telling me that some evil necromancers have gone into a city to buy things rather than simply destroying the town, taking what you need, and walking away with a new army to boot?

Last time I played a Necromancer I simply made a few of the infected kind and had them do a number on the city through its water supply. Then steamrolled them with an army. We used scrying to know what kind of power level the people in the city were, and none of them would have been able to stand up.

[Wookie-ranger]

I have a few questions for what you guys do when RPing as a Necromancer (not necessarily evil) or other character with companions normally unwelcome in a city or anywhere else in society?Store them in a portable hole, bag of holding, in your basement, sewers. As said before.


In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?If you only have a few you could give them each a hat of disguise. If not in the budget buy/loot some robes and full plate armor. I like the idea of the 'Kight's of dead' bodyguards that have been mentioned before.


Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)? There is a spell for that. You could also tell everyone that you are a druid with the 'vow of not washing' or something.
Also; unless it is a house rule, skeletons don't smell. Zombies might be a problem, but I am very partial against them anyway. :smallwink:


Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?
You are an adventurer, right? it is part of the job description to kill stuff. I'd go for animals, they tend to be better at low levels, and monsters (like hydra) at higher levels. If you really have to stick to humanoid undead give them range weapons. The +2 Dex on the skells comes in handy and they are a bit away from the damage, as they don't heal naturally.


What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx? Merchants become merchants to make money, not to be as good as a paladin. If you offer them a nice little bonus, and the promise (and may be even partial payment up front) to buy lots more they will be cool. Merchants that deal in gems are at best level 6 experts (unless your DM hates you, and makes everyone a Level 17 ex-adventurer), you have the power of life and death (well, mainly death) in the palm of your hand (and with the right touch spell, literally), make him too scared to say anything, that might also speed up your order.
If that is still not an option; as mentioned, look at the Pale Master PRC; you lose a caster level, but you can make undead for free. Why not just spell-stitch animate dead?


Ever had a favorite summoned/created/animated companion that wasn't optimized but was still fun?
Skellys retain any ability that improves their attack. That is relatively vague, but lets see:
Wolf, it gets a trip attack whenever it bits. I like them.
Tiger, gets improved grapple and pounce(!). If you want to go cheap, get the leopard, same abilities, less HD, but less damage.


basically, any fun stories about playing a hero who kept some strange company?
We played a fairly RP heavy game, where the enemies reacted to what you did, even if there was no mechanical reason for them.
I played a LE Dread Necromancer, lesser Aasimar (necropolitan). The portable hole that housed my undead army was stuck to my chest.
The plan worked nicely: I waded into combat! Flaming Flail over my head swinging away. how ever at the first attack that hit me I fell down pretending to have suffered a mortal wound. with my 'dieing words' i cursed my attackers to be consumed by death itself.
This was a the command given to my hoard of wolf and dog skeletons to claw their way out of my chest (out of the portable hole) and attack any one hostile.
Intimidate bonus supreme, save against fear DC=just-run.
good times :smallbiggrin:


If you want to become a healer and a Necromancer look into Dread Necro, free out-of-combat healing for you and the party (if they are undead, of take a feat).
isn't there some kind of weapon enchantment that does negative energy damage? put in on a dagger and stab your self in the foot a few times.

[Krazzman]

We played a fairly RP heavy game, where the enemies reacted to what you did, even if there was no mechanical reason for them.
I played a LE Dread Necromancer, lesser Aasimar (necropolitan). The portable hole that housed my undead army was stuck to my chest.
The plan worked nicely: I waded into combat! Flaming Flail over my head swinging away. how ever at the first attack that hit me I fell down pretending to have suffered a mortal wound. with my 'dieing words' i cursed my attackers to be consumed by death itself.
This was a the command given to my hoard of wolf and dog skeletons to claw their way out of my chest (out of the portable hole) and attack any one hostile.
Intimidate bonus supreme, save against fear DC=just-run.
good times :smallbiggrin:


If you want to become a healer and a Necromancer look into Dread Necro, free out-of-combat healing for you and the party (if they are undead, of take a feat).
isn't there some kind of weapon enchantment that does negative energy damage? put in on a dagger and stab your self in the foot a few times.

That might be the most awesome necromancer I've read of... except the one that was cut in half by 2 dominated party members (due to a vampire) while himself raiding the graveyard to make his army.... that was epic (but more or less on the side of failing).

[JoshuaZ]

Wait a minute. You're telling me that some evil necromancers have gone into a city to buy things rather than simply destroying the town, taking what you need, and walking away with a new army to boot?

Last time I played a Necromancer I simply made a few of the infected kind and had them do a number on the city through its water supply. Then steamrolled them with an army. We used scrying to know what kind of power level the people in the city were, and none of them would have been able to stand up.

If you keep doing this, other people are going to come after you, armies, adventurers and maybe even a few archmagi or the like.

[Necroticplague]

Another thing an aspiring necromancer will want to remember:you have dominion not over the dead, but also the diseased. A different necromancer I played, instead of using zombies, used thralls created by the Necrotic Cyst spells. Then used contagion to fill them with diseases, so that his excuse was that he was the primary caretaker of a group of seriously sick people, and for increased lethality. Eventually, the diseases would kill the host, so he had a realistically small amount of people for this to work on.

[Wavelab]

Well if you saw a man with various jewels and gold and so on and so forth walk through the streets, surrounded by guards all wearing hooded masks or something like that. You'd just imagine him to be a noble or some fancy rich guy. That could be a necromancer for all we know. The guards could be his undead minions.

Consider getting your necromancer a cover identity when you have to go into cities. Give him a turban, loose fancy clothing and you've got Aladin. Be sure to adorn him in jewels. Especially onyxes, to keep up the act.

Also necromancy isn't an evil act from the get go. People who think that way are usually paladins who also believe that every bunny is cute and harmless, until one day when BAM! killed by a rabbit.

And if you're gonna spellstitch yourself, don't get animate dead. Get animate dread warrior (Unapproachable East) instead. Basically for an xp cost(which is negated due to it being a spell like ability) you can create a dread warrior under you control. With no limit. You could literally run around raising every body you see if it wasn't once per day.

[Marootsoobutsu]

CL X 10 HD isn't that good when you lose out on 10 caster levels. even with practiced caster you can only get up 140. A dread necromancer can get that pretty easily if he's got even a minimally optimized charisma score.

Except that your levels in Horned Harbinger count as caster levels for Animate Dead and the like, and stacks with any class levels that can cast Animate Dead. So does your charisma modifier. A dread necro 10/hh 10 with cha 30 gets 10+Cha mod * caster level... so, 20 * 30, or 600 HD worth.

[Mithril Leaf]

Except that your levels in Horned Harbinger count as caster levels for Animate Dead and the like, and stacks with any class levels that can cast Animate Dead. So does your charisma modifier. A dread necro 10/hh 10 with cha 30 gets 10+Cha mod * caster level... so, 20 * 30, or 600 HD worth.

This is the sort of thing you want to specify when you make such a post. Also, that is completely absurd, I agree.

[Marootsoobutsu]

This is the sort of thing you want to specify when you make such a post. Also, that is completely absurd, I agree.

Well, it wasn't my post in the first place originally, but yeah. I've had a thing for necromancers-as-NPCs for a long time, though, and HH is really, really hard to beat without going 3rd party.

[Mithril Leaf]

Well, it wasn't my post in the first place originally, but yeah. I've had a thing for necromancers-as-NPCs for a long time, though, and HH is really, really hard to beat without going 3rd party.

Not saying you should have, I knew it wasn't. Sorry if it came off that way, more of a general annoyance with people not posting pertinent info.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Not saying you should have, I knew it wasn't. Sorry if it came off that way, more of a general annoyance with people not posting pertinent info.

Your apology and clarification fill me with rage! I shall now lay waste to your city and its inhabitants. RAWR!

[Slipperychicken]

And if you're gonna spellstitch yourself, don't get animate dead. Get animate dread warrior (Unapproachable East) instead. Basically for an xp cost(which is negated due to it being a spell like ability) you can create a dread warrior under you control. With no limit. You could literally run around raising every body you see if it wasn't once per day.

That's what your Portable Hole is for. Each day, you raise the strongest corpse in your inventory. Then every noteworthy body you get (and probably some not-so-noteworthy) gets raised eventually. Especially if you have downtime. In the time it takes the Wizard to get one new spell into his book (barring Secret Page), you have animated two Dread Warriors.

[Doxkid]

Shipping crates is my answer to sneaking undead around. It’s surprisingly effective until you get a Bag of Holding.
---
The Onyx cost for animating the dead is something I try to avoid in any campaigns I cast Animate dead often; I do this by being a Warlock or pale master, spell stitching myself or a minion, items, a Morgh pet or dedicated churches that do it for me as a favor. More on the churches later.


And if you're gonna spellstitch yourself, don't get animate dead. Get animate dread warrior (Unapproachable East) instead.
Animate dead is a 4th level spell, which you will be able to cast twice a day; it can make both large amounts of basic zombies/skeletons and ‘strong’ (speaking from a hit die standpoint only) ones too. Animate Dread warrior is a 6th level spell, competing with Create Undead. The two also have vastly different jobs; Animate dead is basic for zombie/skeleton creation while Dread warrior can only be used on humanoids to create Dread warriors. If you actually want dread warrior, you should pick both of them up. I prefer Create Undead over Animate Dread warrior though.

Despite the massive fan following Animate Dread Warrior has picked up, I don’t actually like the spell all that much. The only real benefit to it is that your Dread Warriors are permanently loyal and you can have an infinite amount of them.

Create undead, on the other hand, is a truly beautiful option for undead creation. No, you aren’t getting suckered into creating ghouls, though those could also be decent if you apply the ghoul template/give them levels in ghoul instead of making a generic one…you are creating Bone and Corpse creatures.

Like a Dread Warrior a Bone creature or Corpse creature retains its feat, skills and class abilities.

Unlike a Dread warrior, Bone creatures gain a +4 bonus to dexterity instead of strength, gain natural armor, have cold immunity, take reduced damage from piercing or slashing weapons, gain weapon finesse with one weapon you pick, gain a claw attack and if they were originally winged they are still able to fly (though the flight Is now magical instead of natural).

Corpse creatures retain winged flight, gain natural armor, gain a slam attack and get a better stat setup (they gain +4 str like the Dread warrior, but lose 2 dex ).

Neither corpse creatures nor bone creatures lose mental stats making either a decent option for reanimating casters. The price? They are uncontrolled upon creation so you’ll need to rebuke, negotiate, or take control of them…or you could just let them run wild if they weren’t originally your enemy. This option for the Create Undead spell comes from the Book of Vile darkness and has no caster level requirements.

Once you hit caster level 15 you can reanimate beings with the Mummy or Mummified template. This is the bee’s knees. +8 or 6 str (depending on which you use), +4 wisdom, +4 charisma, DR, Despair (if you pick mummified), Mummy rot on their slam attacks, a Slam attack and either +8 to natural armor or 10 flat natural armor depending on which you pick.

Returning to the issue from earlier, these guys aren’t initially loyal to you. For most you simply pop a rebuke, or cast Control/Command Undead and call it a done day; this is especially true for past enemies and beings that wouldn’t appreciate being undead (good aligned creatures mostly, since evil aligned creatures might have just gotten a free ticket out of eternal torture).

For party mates that would like one last hurrah before they create a new character, you basically just cast a re-flavored Raise Dead. The character will probably be retired though, since they probably just received a CR and LA increase that would stop them from leveling, and since it really their character anymore. Or killed and brought back to life properly.

The really interesting bit is the ones you don’t control that also don’t hate you. Obviously, you should have some means of getting one over any particular ones you like, but having a network of beings that owe you a favor, but aren’t fanatically devoted to you (unless you make them fanatically devoted to you) can be pretty useful.

Independent researchers looking into problems you’re dealing with, someone who can get you raised/reanimated if your party is wiped out, an ally willing to offer safe haven when you visit a hostile region, crafters, spies…it isn’t as simple as the 6 int Dread Warrior walking forward and hitting something really hard, and that makes it glorious in my eyes.

[Averis Vol]

love the post, but one question, isnt BoVD a DM only book? its printed on page 4. thats the only thing I have against this post, as a DM this is a beautiful network for your Anti-Hero team.

[Wookie-ranger]

love the post, but one question, isnt BoVD a DM only book? its printed on page 4. thats the only thing I have against this post, as a DM this is a beautiful network for your Anti-Hero team.

well.... "yes" .... but not really. in the same paragraph it says "Don't let them know what's in store for their characters"
this means two things to me.
1st: its meants for when the DM uses the book 'against' the players. this is silly bc if the DM uses a book for the campaign then he should tell/allow the book for the PCs. other wise it seams kind of cheap, the DM can use every book that he/she wants, but the players can only use the ones he/she says are OK?
2nd: This seams more like pointless flavor text to make the reader feel special.

[Doxkid]

love the post, but one question, isnt BoVD a DM only book? its printed on page 4. thats the only thing I have against this post, as a DM this is a beautiful network for your Anti-Hero team.

Somewhat. BoVD was intended for DMs specifically much like campaigns, but it is highly relevant to evil characters and necromancers alike.

However, since you need permission to use any book other than core, that problem can be bypassed by asking your dm; Rule 0 and all that rot. Of course, some of the other material in the book may actually get it banned, so...

If you're just going for that one spell option, you have a pretty good chance of getting it since it is actually weaker than Animate Dread warrior (as it does not inherently give you control of the creature you animate).

Even if Bone and Corpse creatures are not available, Create Undead still has a great number of uses. It can be used to start/apply Ghoul monster class, apply the Mummy template/monster class, apply the Mummified template, apply the Curst template (which version you are allowed to create with this spell is a whole different matter), apply the Juju Zombie template or toss the Bonesinger template onto a dead bard.

[Pokonic]

basically, any fun stories about playing a hero who kept some strange company?

I once had a half-orc barbarian who came from a rather nasty marauding mixed tribe of ogres, orcs, and trolls. Thing is, he left on good terms. Hence, it made the time where the party was rescued from a cult by a bunch of trolls even better. Things got to the point that the parties Cleric traded healing tips with the ogre shamen leading the whole thing.

As for necromancers going shopping, well, you are in a city. Even if there are no "Morgues-are-Us" around, there is probably a shady side to the place. Find a guy with streetwise, have them show you around, and you could proabably find a few folks who cater to the dead who are on the shallow end of the Alingment pool.

[Vizzerdrix]

I have a few questions for what you guys do when RPing as a Necromancer (not necessarily evil) or other character with companions normally unwelcome in a city or anywhere else in society?

In a mainly Urban setting, how do you explain having your large group of minions following you through crowded streets?

Any interesting stories about trying to explain to the town guard or other NPC why you smell like death(or brimstone)?

Where do you get the corpses for you army while playing (or pretending to be) a hero?

What do you tell the merchants you intend to do with all that onyx?

Ever had a favorite summoned/created/animated companion that wasn't optimized but was still fun?

basically, any fun stories about playing a hero who kept some strange company?

1-Have one or two elite undead bodyguards. Cloaks, gloves and full helms should cover appearances. Or just make something up (Bodies under contract, their last wish was to get revenge on a murderer, criminals too dangerous to transport alive, etc)

2-You work in a slaughter house (for meat stink) or a charcoal camp (brimstone)

3-Dungeons, Knowledge checks, and the planar binding and summon monster spells (use the summoning spells from Waterdeep: City of Splendors).

4-Carving statues, tinted mirrors and flooring.

5-up. It was a bag of rats that I'd used the cyst spells on and a 3rd party cantrip to animate (only 1 at a time). I got paid to clean the buggers out of a tavern and had a sack of disposable minions/spies. I kept tabs on important peoples and burned down a paladins mansion with them. Good times :smallbiggrin:

[Honest Tiefling]

Be a woman. Make up a sob story about your husband (Or son, daughter, mother, etc.) dying, and you joining the church in your sorrow/having a bunch of silent bodyguards. You might be wealthy, but you're still in mourning. Black jewelry at times was fashionable for mourners.

Technically, you could also be a man, but check with the DM regarding mourning customs and ways men can wear jewelry without causing people to wonder. Yes, some cultures do have appropriate manly jewelry, but the DM and the players might not be aware of this.

See if there aren't any gods in the campaign with onyx as a favored stone and black as a holy color. Works well with the pretending to be a priest thing!

Onyx is also not always naturally black, (And is even then often banded) so perhaps buy up the brown stuff and turn it black? You could pose as a jeweler or a trader of gems. Aren't rubies and sapphires used at least with one other spell? With a good int, you might actually turn a profit, but either way it'll explain those bodyguards.

[Amidus Drexel]

If you keep doing this, other people are going to come after you, armies, adventurers and maybe even a few archmagi or the like.

You see a problem, I see a PLOTHOOK!!

[rel]

Spell compendium has the spell disguise undead. It covers this scenario pretty well functioning as disguise self and even hiding the undead from detect magic.

Remember a wizards solution to problems is more wizardry. A fighters solution to problems is ask the wizard.