The Power of the Orient: Wu Jen Handbook

[Kuulvheysoon]

The Power of the Orient: 3.5e Wu Jen Handbook
http://asianwiki.com/images/e/ed/The_Sorcerer_and_the_White_Snake-004.jpg

Table of Contents
Post 1: Introduction
Post 2: Attributes and Races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13419424&postcount=2)
Post 3: Class Features (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13419433&postcount=3)
Post 4: Feats and Skills/Skill Tricks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13419443&postcount=4)
Post 5: Multi-classing, Dips, and Prestige Classes
Post 6: Spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13419452&postcount=6)
Post 7: Equipment
Post 8: Sample Builds


Introduction
The Wu Jen is an eastern-influenced Intelligence-based arcane caster from Complete Arcane. Unique for 3.5e, it uses the five traditional Chinese elements instead of the four Roman elements. Although they have a small spell list (especially compared to their nearest comparison, Wizards) it features a good handful of spells unique to the Wu Jen class, and they received more spells in CM and SpC.

Goals
I’m going to try and shine a bulleye’s lantern on Wu Jen, a class that sees little practical use outside of a few specific exploits (Giant Size, Body Outside Body, I’m looking at you).

Ranking System

Red – These choices are not advised for any Wu Jen
Black – These choices aren’t bad choices, but they’re not necessarily good choices, either.
Blue – These are good options. They’ll either be useful in nearly every type of situation, or they’ll add something significant to your build.
Indigo – These are even better options. These are the top-tier choices for a Wu Jen, and if you can get it, you should definitely at least consider it.


Source Abbreviations

PHB – Player’s Handbook
PHB2 – Player's Handbook 2
DMG – Dungeon Master’s Guide
DMG2 – Dungeon Master's Guide 2
MMI-V – Monster Manuals I through V
MIC – Magic Item Compendium
SpC – Spell Compendium
XPH – Expanded Psionics Handbook
MoI – Magic of Incarnum
ToM – Tome of Magic
ToB – Tome of Battle
WoL – Weapons of Legacy
CAdv – Complete Adventurer
CAr – Complete Arcane
CC – Complete Champion
CM – Complete Mage
CPsi – Complete Psionic
CS – Complete Scoundrel
CW – Complete Warrior
RotW – Races of the Wild
RoS – Races of Stone
RoD – Races of Destiny
RotD – Races of the Dragon
RoE – Races of Eberron
RoF – Races of Faerun
Frost – Frostburn
Sand – Sandstorm
Storm - Stormwrack
City - Cityscape
DS – Dungeonscape
LM – Libris Mortis
LoM – Lords of Madness
Dra – Draconomicon
SS – Savage Species
MH – Miniatures Handbook
UA – Unearthed Arcana
PlH - Planar Handbook
MoP - Manual of the Planes
BoED – Book of Exalted Deeds
BoVD – Book of Vile Darkness
HoB – Heroes of Battle
HoH – Heroes of Horror
ECS – Eberron Campaign Setting
OA – Oriental Adventures
FRCS – Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
PGtF – Player's Guide to Faerun
DMxxx - Dragon Magazine (Issue xxx)

Change Log

06/18/2012: Started guide, covered attributes/races, class features and started spells.
07/02/2012: Finished all unique Wu Jen spells from CAr, CM and OA.
11/14/2013: Changed the best choice color from Cyan to Indigo, completely revamped the racial choices, finished Feats/Skills/Skill Tricks.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Attributes and Races

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yN4IV0XdpYM/ToMW88Eq14I/AAAAAAAAAPw/xGqgEVe7NiY/s1600/Hengeyokai-wujen.jpg

Attributes

Strength – One of your primary dump stats. It will apply to your rare touch spells, but you don’t want to be in combat anyways. Note: unless you're intending on a Wu Jen gish. In that case, it becomes Black.

Dexterity – Although this isn't your top priority, keep it relatively high, especially if you're a [metal] focused Wu Jen. It also adds to Initiative, which is important, as you lack access to some of the Wizard's Initiative Win Buttons.

Constitution – Your secondary stat. You’ll want to bring it as high as you can (under Intelligence), because it governs hit points, your Fortitude save, and covers the Concentration skill.

Intelligence – Your key ability. It governs your bonus spells, spell save DCs, and the maximum level of spells that you can learn. Make sure to have a minimum of 15 here – that way you can learn 9th level spells. It also adds to your skill points.

Wisdom – Another dump stat. You already have good Will saves, and no class ability depends on it. A notable exception to this is the Arcane Disciple feat, however.

Charisma – One final dump stat. Unless you intend to use a prestige class for Charisma, feel free to penalise it however much you want.



Races
Pretty much any race that'd make a good wizard will make an excellent Wu Jen.

CORE

Human: Is there anything that Humans aren't good for? Bonus Feat is a Bonus Feat, after all.
Dwarf: Bonus to a secondary stat and access to some useful prestige classes (Runesmith, Earth Dreamer, etc..) makes this an excellent choice.
Gnome: Not as good of a choice as it is for a Wizard (as the Wu Jen spell list lacks shadow conjuration/evocation), but Small size with a Con bonus is good regardless.
Halfling: Small size gets you a small bonus to your to-hit, giving them a bit of help for the [metal] spells.
Elf: Again, slightly worse for Wu Jen than for Wizards due to the lack of ACFs (like Elven Generalist). Constitution penalty hurts, but bow proficiency is nice, as is partial Martial Weapon Proficiency. Gray Elves (MM) get an additional +2 Intelligence at the cost of a -2 to Strength.
Half-Elf: No real reason to pick these guys, unfortunately.
Half-Orc: Literally no reason to choose this race.

FORGOTTEN REALMS

Lesser Tiefling: Bonus to Intelligence and Dexterity, penalty to a dump. The humanoid (planetouched) subtype can be a hindrance, however.
Lesser Air Genasi: Bonus to Intelligence and Dexterity, with a penalty to 2 dumps stats. Breathless also makes you immune to things like the cloud spells and immune to drowning.
Deep Imaskari: +2 Intelligence, and excellent for the low-levels when those 1st level slots actually matter. Interesting to note that Wu Jen can actually use this better than regular wizards because of their Spell Secrets.
Strongheart Halflings: Take everything that is awesome about Humans, and shrink it down.

EBERRON

Changeling: A good choice, mainly for access to the fabulous Recaster (RoE) prestige class.
Kalashtar: Unless you're dead-set on a cerebremancer theurge, it offers no real reason to take it.
Shifter: Intelligence penalty, and a decidedly melee slant for racial abilities makes this a bad choice.
Warforged: The Construct type is an awesome type, and comes with a whole blanket list of immunities. If you start at a bit higher level (enough to enchant your body) or take the Unarmored Body feat to negate spell failure, they make excellent choices. They still make good choices even if you don't, as their racial spell failure is only 5%.

OTHER

Snow Elves (Frostburn): Arguably the best of the elves, they lose the Constitution bonus in favor of a Charisma penalty.
Dragonborn (RotD): Just all around good, this template can be useful on races like Elves to negate the Constitution penalty. Note that since they still count as a member of their original race, it can be used and still have access to racial prestige classes.
Raptoran (RotW): Good for the flight, as fly isn't part of the Wu Jen spell list.

LEVEL ADVANCED RACES

Hengeyokai (OA) (+1): Humanoid (shapeshifter) can lead to fun. Note that their favoured class is Wu Jen.
Tieflings/Air Genasi (MM/FRCS) (+1): Good for all of the reasons that the lesser versions are, with the addition of the Outsider [native] type.
If Dragon Magazine Material is allowed, Hengeyokai are now LA0 (DM318). There's also the Arctic template (DM306) for -2 Cha/+2 Con, along with some other minor abilities.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Class Features

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0228cwc_characterclass_wujen.jpg

Spelllcasting: Wu Jen get their own specialised list, with more than two dozen unique spells in total (see Spells sections).

Sidebar: What is a Spirit?

The Wu Jen has exclusive access to two unique spells lines, the commune with Spirit line and the Spirit Binding line. 'Spirit' is a very ill-defined term in D&D 3.5e. The list in Complete Divine identifies every single creature defined as a spirit as of it's printing. The following creatures count as spirits for the purposes of Wu Jen.
All incorporeal undead All creatures of the Fey type All elementals Creatures in astral form or with astral bodies (but not creatures physically present on the Astral plane) Spirit creatures created by spells such as dream sight or wood wose Spirit folk and telthors (UE)

It also includes all creatures named as [spirit] creatures in Oriental Adventures. In addition, it also has a clause about creatures identified as carrying the [spirit] subtype from the Monster Manual. They are as follows:
Celestial (Astral Deva) Dragon Turtle Nagas (all) Ogre Mage Rakshasa Vargouille Myrlochar


Watchful Spirit: Rerolling initiative is never a bad thing, especially without access to the wizard’s I-Win buttons for initiative (Nerveskitter, Celerity).

Bonus Metamagic Feat: You get any metamagic feat for which you qualify for at first level. Free feats are free feats, and many good spellcasting prestige classes have metamagic feat prerequisites.

Spell Secrets: One of the titular Wu Jen abilities. You may choose for any spell you know to be altered by one of the following metamagic feats permanently: Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell or Still Spell. Note that the level of the spell remains unchanged.

Sidebar: Wu Jen Taboos

Complete Arcane presents a small list of sample taboos for your Wu Jen to take. Here are some more additional taboos;
Must make a ritual thanks after each battle May not show their ankles To be continued





Elemental Mastery: You get a +2 on CL when you cast a spell from your chosen elemental group (one of Earth, Fire, Metal, Water or Wood). You also get a +2 bonus on any saving throw versus your chosen group, on the off chance that your DM throws a Wu Jen at you. Wu Jen also know a number of spells that fall under all groups, and you get this bonus on these spells, regardless of your chosen mastery.

Sidebar: Which Elemental Group should I choose to master?

Your choice of Elemental Group mastery isn't actually as essential as the book makes it sound. Effectively, you're getting a free Spell Penetration feat, slightly extended spell durations, and some bonus damage with spells of your selected group.


Bonus: Dead Levels II (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)
The Dead Levels series over at WotC adds a few new features to Wu Jen;

Intuitive Spirit: At 2nd level, you can choose one Knowledge skill. Once per day, when making a skill check with this Knowledge skill, a wu jen can reroll their skill check before any information is disclosed. The wu jen takes the better of the two rolls. At 4th level, this reroll can also be used to decipher or identify anything with a Spellcraft check, but not learn or prepare spells. At 5th level, this reroll can also be used to avoid distraction from nonmagical motion or weather with a Concentration check, but not from damage or grappling.

Elemental Bond (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a wu jen can recognize the material, somatic, and verbal component of any spell from their elemental mastery list (including spells that are designated as "all"). The wu jen gains a +1 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify these spells being cast by another creature. See Spellcraft on pg. 82 of the Player's Handbook. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th, 19th, and 20th level.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Feats and Skills
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/352/0/1/eastern_mage_by_mephistino-d355b4p.jpg

Feats
Your feat choices are going to be very similar to a Wizard.

There's a few basic paths that you can, however.

Metamagic Mastery focuses on tweaking your existing spells. you can actually get some pretty interesting usage out of this path through Spell Secrets, permanently adjusting a spell with one of a few set MM feats with change to the spell cost. Feats to take can include Arcane Thesis, Empower Spell, Twin Spell, Heighten Spell and Extra Spell Secret.

Gishes based off of Wu Jen can actually turn out well, especially if they're thinking of heading into Jade Phoenix Mage. Wu Jen have a few unique (that are commonly exploited) spells that lend themselves well to the role. Feats to take include Combat Casting, (Greater) Spell Penetration, Minor Shapeshift and Knowledge Devotion.

Item Creation (? Awaiting confirmation)

Skills

Concentration: Max it out. This is a vital skill, especially for Gishes.
Craft: You may or may not get much use out of it.
Knowledge (any): If you take Knowledge Devotion, you will want to devote a hefty portion of your skill points over here to get the greatest use out of the feat.
Profession: Likely useless to you, unless you take it for flavor reasons or need it for a prestige class.
Spellcraft: Another important skill, it's a good idea to keep a good investment here.


Skill Tricks
Skill tricks are a new way to spend your skill points presented in Complete Scoundrel. They're effectively mini-feats that you can use once per encounter or day.
Assume Quirk: Good if you're trying to infiltrate someplace and you need to be someone specific (like, say, the Captain of the Guards).
Collector of Stories: If you have Knowledge Devotion, you should definitely be grabbing this.
Nimble Charge: If your gish makes use of charging, this could be nice to have.
Social Recovery: If you fail a Disguise check, you can attempt a redo once a day.
Conceal Spellcasting: It's unlikely that you'll have the skill ranks in Sleight of Hand for this, but I could see it coming in handy once or twice.
Swift Concentration: Do you want to maintain concentration on a spell as a swift action instead of a standard action? So do I!


Credit to mephistino of dA for the artwork

[Kuulvheysoon]

Reserved the Fourth (Multi-classing, Dips and Prestige classes)
http://crossstitchworld.com/Images/3881_The%20Mighty%20Samurai%20Asian%20Oriental%20W arrior.jpg

[Kuulvheysoon]

Spells

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/iw041015_earthbolt.jpg
A Wu Jen casting Earthbolt against his foe.

Unique Spells of note for each level. (Books covered; CAr, CM, OA, DrM)
Many of the same strategies that wizards use Wu Jen can copy. I’ll be covering Wu Jen only spells in this section. I may come back later and do a more comprehensive list.

1st level

Animate Water/Animate Wood: Creates an animated object for concentration, max 1 round/CL. Wood has hardness 5, but Water gets doubled hit points.
Climbing Tree (CM): Create a (thin) strong tree made for climbing, to a maximum of 10’/CL (maximum 50’). Included only because it is arcane-unique to the Wu Jen (Druid 1, Ranger 1)
Cobra’s Breath: Short range cone of poison (no traces left afterwards) for 1d3 Constitution damage.
Elemental Burst: An interesting spell. Earth, Fire, Metal and Wood are all direct damage (Ref half), but Water is a Reflex save or be knocked prone, with a +/-4 adjustment for larger/smaller than Medium.
Fiery Eyes: Fun and efficient damage dealing spell at low levels – lasts a minute, and can be used 1/round (as a full round action) to force a Reflex save (DC15) or be set ablaze.
Ghost Light: A 30’ radius Will save vs. fear. The spectral light can be reshaped to your desire, and it lasts concentration (no maximum upper limit on duration!). Also functions as a torch.
Iron Scarf: Basic direct damage spell, notable only for the lack of save/SR.
Melt: A utility spell for a Frostburn campaign, perhaps. Automatically melt (non-magical) ice/snow, deal low damage to [cold] creatures, and deal damage to magically created ice/snow equal to 2/CL, maximum 10 points of damage, or enough to shatter a typical wall of ice.
Scales of the Lizard: A lower levelled Barkskin, with a nerfed duration (1 minute [set] instead of 10min/CL).
Secret Signs: About the only uses for this spell are an RP-heavy campaign or you find yourself frequently captured (as the only component is a focus).
Smoke Ladder: Create a ladder made from a large greenwood fire (the focus), up to 10’/CL. Weighs virtually nothing and can be carried around for the spell duration. Note the lack of a maximum height. Hilarity can ensue from this.

2nd level
Animate Fire: As AnimateWater/Wood, except that the fire gains the Burn special attack of Fire Elementals .
Apparition: Will save or become shaken to anyone who sees you (or the subject of this touch spell). Much like Fear, except for the fact that you save 2 levels on it. Best if you can get multiple copies running at the same time.
Blackrot (CM): Touch attackto deal gradual damage to plant creatures, or channeled through a wooden weapon to inflict the sickened condition (Fort negates). Also a Druid 2 spell.
Entangling Scarf: If you succeed on a ranged touch, target has to succeed on a Reflex save or become entangled.
Fire Shuriken: You get automatic proficiency with the shuriken, and they each deal 3d6 damage. But their duration is Instantaneous; so you can stockpile them. Could be interesting if combined with the Energy Substitution/Admixture metamagic feat(s).
Force Whip: Oddly enough, this spell carries the [sonic] tag instead of the [force] tag. Could be useful if facing a large amount of mundane Animals. Also a Bard 2 spell.
Ice Blast: Low damage (1d6/2 CL), cone shape (three times the size of Cobra’s Breath) make for a basic (bad) blasting spell. Can cause fatigue for one minute on a failed save, interestingly enough, but a successful save negates both the fatigue and all of the damage
Ice Knife: 2d8 cold damage, 2 Dexterity damage and a chance of fatigue for 10 rounds (Fortitude negates Dexterity damage and fatigue). Notable for its range (Long), the fact that you get a +2 bonus on the roll for each 2 CL, and if you miss the conjured ice shatters, dealing damage in a splash radius.
Kiss of the Toad: Touch range poison spell, Fortitude negates (1d6 Constitution damage, secondary damage 1d6 Constitution damage 1 minute later)
Lightning Blade: Interesting spell, in that you technically aren’t proficient in the created weapon. You can give the weapon to someone else, though. Deals 1d6/CL (max 10d6) total, split up however you wish, as either a melee touch attack or a 30 line ranged touch. I could see this racking up some major damage if the weapon was given to the party Duskblade, using minimum damage each time, channeling a spell and Power Attacking for full (using it pretty much for the touch attack part).
Protection from Charm: Just... why? A weak, extremely circumstantial bonus that caps at +5 (+1/3 CL).
Rain of Needles: Inferior blasting for the sole fact that you must split the damage up among the targets affected (and the fact that it caps at 5d4, (+1d4/CL))
Wall of Gloom: Odd little battlefield control spell, cuts off move actions if creatures attempt to cross it (Will negates).

3rd level
Commune with Lesser Spirit: Not a great spell. Not only is it extremely DM-dependant, ‘Unclear’ is a legitimate response, and if the spirit’s alignment differs from yours, it gets a Will save to resist answering your questions.
Earthbolt: A line-type fireball effect, except with untyped damage. Can only be used on earthen floors , though (clay, dirt, stone, etc...)
Elemental Eye (CM): A useful scouting spell; cast on the chosen focus, slip into an enemy’s pocket and see how to reach the BBEG as soon as possible, also checking out possible defenses (traps, monsters, etc...)
Fire Wings: About a tie with a wizard’s fly. Turns your arms into giant flaming wings, disabling your ability to cast anything needing somatic components, is personal, and if the spells ends/fails, you fall normally. However, the duration is ten times as long as fly, and you can make unarmed attacks with the wings (at a -4 penalty unless you are proficient with unarmed strikes) that deal lethal fire damage.
Magnetism: Can be used to pull anything metal towards you. If a wielded weapon, you must make a disarm check (using the ray’s +10 bonus). For attended (but not held) items, the target must make a Reflex save to hold on. On a success, he still has to face a disarm check. No word on what to do if the attended item is metal armor, though...
Plant Growth: Notable only for the fact that the Wu Jen gets exclusive arcane access to the spell, although it can be a decent battlefield control in the right environments.
Rebirth of Iron (CM): Notable only for the fact that Wu Jen get early access to this spell (it’s a 4th level Wiz/Sorc spell).
Steam Breath: Another fireball-type spell, this one is exactly the same save the range (30ft cone).
Terra Cotta Warrior: Want a controllable Animated Object? This spell will give you one.
Thornskin: Cause lethal unarmed damage, and deal damage to someone grappling you.

4th level
Creeping Darkness: An awesome debuff, provided that you can make them stay in the cloud. While they’re engulfed, enemies are blind, deaf, and completely unable to speak. All of this with no save/SR. Definitely an excellent spell.
Dancing Blade: Not a bad spell to (slightly) boost damage at this level if you give it to the party meat shield. The real benefit of this spell, however, is that it makes the target immune to being flanked by two opponents
Elemental Ward: Another circumstantial spell. Hedging out creatures of the Elemental type (on a failed Will save) likely has its uses, but not very frequently. It’s an emanation, however, so if a creature succeeds on its save, it has to keep succeeding for 10 rounds, as a success does not render it immune to the effects.
Heart Ripper: Honestly, the only use I can find for this spell is clearing low level mooks. Note the 4HD limit on affected targets. Well, that or clearing out innocent villages for the black-hearted among us.
Pain: Excellent debuff, as they get a -4 penalty on all attack, skill and ability checks for 1 minute. Even if they succeed, they still get a -2.
Poison Needles: Although the damage is singularily unimpressive for a 4th level spell, the needle is merely the delivery system. You can choose from three different poisons; a 1d8/1d8 Con damage, 1d10/1d10 Dex, or paralysis for 2d6 minutes.
Rain of Spines (CM): An area of effect damage/entangling spell. An interesting battlefield control spell, as not only are they entangled, but they can’t move from their space, unless they beat a DC20 grapple or Escape Artist check.
Snake Darts: Better than it looks, at first. Although it’s effectively only once per combat (nothing says that the snakes must be swallowed immediately), it deals 3d6*2, with 1d6/1d6 Con*2. Four (Fortitude) saves versus poison.
Spirit Binding, Lesser: An incredibly useful and versatile spell with an HD cap of 8. Here’s more info (www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13489944&postcount=5) done by the amazing eggs for his Shaman (OA) Handbook.
Storm of Needles (CM): And here’s everything that Rain of Needles should have been. 1d4/CL (max 15d4) to every creature in the 30’ cone. And no SR, to boot.
Wall of Bones: Awesomely thematic, but it kind of fails in actual practice. Small creatures can wriggle through (at will), taking only 1d8 damage, and Medium creatures can slip through with an Escape Artist check (DC20). Or, alternatively, any creature can make a decent Strength check to bust through the wall.
Water to Poison: Not as useful, mainly because the poison is ingested and it only changes plain water to poison (1/1d8 Con).

5th level
Fire Breath: I honestly have no idea why this spell is fifth level. It’d fit nicely in with Ice Blast way back with the second level spells.
Spirit Self: An neat scouting spell. Walls are no longer an obstacle in your way. Since the spell is dismissible, you can seek out the BBEG and simply vanish.
Terra Cotta Lion: As Terra Cotta Warrior, except that it’s a Huge construct.
Wood Rot: Although it’s other uses are limited, against Plant creatures this spell is absolutely brutal. 3d6+1/CL (max +15) for rounds/level, and you can make one touch a level... with no clause about the damage not stacking.

6th level
Fire Seeds: More no save/SR damage from the Acorn Bombs, and with the Holly bombs comes standard silliness.
Spirit Binding: as Spirit Binding, Lesser, except the HD cap is 16HD.
Spirit Needle: Personally, I find little use to this spell. Although it does have its uses as battlefield control; it can hold any [spirit] creature in place, not just incorporeal ones.

7th level
Body Outside Body: Ah, Body Outside Body. One of the more infamous Wu Jen tricks involves this spell and Archmage, as nothing states that a clone cannot use SLAs or Supernatural abilities. An excellent spell, in any case.
Channel the Dragon: Although it wins points by having a different effect based on your Elemental Mastery choice, none of the choices are very good. You get a breath weapon that deals a mere 7d6, paralysis for a single round, or a slow breath for 1d6 rounds. Each effect can be used every 1d4 rounds, and the spell only lasts 1 round/CL. you also get a defensive ability from the spell - resistance 30 to your breath weapon energy or DR 5/adamantine from the non-energy breaths. This would be a nice spell... if it was three levels lower.
Decapitating Scarf: A save or die with no [death] tag, the only real disadvantages to this spell are the fact that you have to make a normal ranged attack to hit your target, and the fact that it relies on targets vulnerable to decapitation. On a failed save, it still deals 1d4/CL (max 20d4) of damage, or 6d4 if the creature has a head, but isn’t immediately inconvenienced by it’s loss (most undead, constructs, etc...)
Giant Size: Another spell that puts Wu Jen on the map, it’s one of the few ways for a PC to hit Colossal size.
Great Worm of the Earth (CM): A decent spell to use against a low-Reflex save opponent. Once they’re trapped (and taking a potential 48d6 of damage (8d6 initial, 2d6 acid per round after that)), you can load on the debuffs as they’re trapped in place to ensure that they stay there (like Creeping Darkness or Pain, followed up by a Poison Needles).
Reanimation: An arcane pseudo-Raise Dead. It’s more like a version of Gentle Repose that lets the subject remain functioning.

8th level
Cloud Chariot: Despite one of the fastest fly speeds that I’ve seen on a spell (a mile a round), I still fail to see the point when Wu Jen have access to the Teleport line.
Finding the Centre: It’s effectively a free action Swift Concentration. I could see it’s uses, but I doubt that it’s a spell that I’d use everyday.
Minute Form: The big-little brother of Giant Size, this spell certainly has a few niche uses, but it’s more a spell that you’d keep as a scroll, not an everyday spell.
Spirit Binding, Greater: as Spirit Binding, Lesser, except the HD cap is 24HD.
Surelife (OA/Sand): The only spell that is grandfathered in from OA, and what a doozy. You state one natural occurrence or nonmagical condition. BOOM. You’re immune for 1 minute per caster level. If you can’t see the uses for this, you aren’t trying hard enough.

9th level
Arboreal Transformation (CM): Turning your opponents into trees that obey you for 1 day/CL. What could possibly be more amusing? I'll tell you what. On a successful save, the target is slowed for the duration of the spell. Which is 1 day/CL.
Internal Fire: Another save or die that’s missing the [death] tag. It is a Fortitude save, however, and a [fire] spell at that, though. Still, it’s your only save or die at this level and might be a good target for Energy Substitution (Sonic).
Transcend Mortality (CM): One of the most infamous Wu Jen spells, you get virtual invulnerability to all harm. Still, it carries the heavy price of being disintegrated at the end of the spell duration (1 round/CL). Casting time is an immediate action, interestingly enough.


Special thanks to Madara (for general spell help) and eggs (for letting me link to their awesome write-up for Spirit Binding)

On page 95 of Complete Arcane, there is a sidebar about spells from Oriental Adventures. It states that you may add the updated versions of any spells that appear there to the Wu Jen spell list. Here's the single spell that this ruling applies to:
Surelife (8th)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Reserved the Sixth. One more to go! (Equipment Suggestions)
https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/383_ca_wizard.jpg

[Kuulvheysoon]

Final reserved post (Sample Builds)
http://i43.tinypic.com/fcprw0.jpg

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, begin discussion here.

Thanks for your patience.

[Madara]

About time. Considering that it's a full int-based caster, its surprising that there hasn't been a handbook(or at least not one of note)

I'm glad to see someone working on it. :smallsmile:

[Little Brother]

Sweet! I've wanted to see one of these for ages!

Do remember all of the Transcend Mortality tricks(Arcane Disciple(Spite), JPM, etc)

[Kuulvheysoon]

About time. Considering that it's a full int-based caster, its surprising that there hasn't been a handbook(or at least not one of note)

I'm glad to see someone working on it. :smallsmile:

So was I - I'm actually about to play a Wu Jen in a (hopefully long) campaign, so I'll be getting some real experience in.


Sweet! I've wanted to see one of these for ages!

Do remember all of the Transcend Mortality tricks(Arcane Disciple(Spite), JPM, etc)

I'll either touch on that in the Build section or the Spells section.

[Empedocles]

Really glad to see this! Looking forward to its completion.

A quick note though: the hengeyokai was updated to LA 0 for 3.5 (which should make it a much better choice for wu jen). Also, are you going to rank the races?

[Jarian]

Hengeyokai level adjustment was reduced to +0 in, I believe, one of the Oriental Dragon Mag issues, in exchange for their type becoming Humanoid (shapeshifter). Which... really doesn't do anything, but whatever.

Just a minor note while I wait for the meat of the handbook to be finished. I enjoy Wu Jens in general, so I'll see if there's anything I can add once you're done.

Edit: Thrice-damned ninjas!

[Fable Wright]

For the record, is the handbook going to be focused on using the Wu Jen as a full caster on par with a Wizard, or will it have a section about using Wu Jen in Gish builds, as well?

Also, something that I request be in this handbook: What are spirits in the game? How do Commune with Spirit/Spirit Binding work, and what does that mean for the setting? And so on. The most I've found on that subject was a sidebar in Complete Divine near the Spirit Shaman, so advice for people without Oriental Adventures would be greatly appreciated.

[Madara]

You can probably steal the races from the Wizard handbooks, making your job much easier. I think I'll help out by looking at the spells a bit, at least so I can point out some of the goodies. :smallsmile:

[137beth]

Wow...a full Int caster that didn't already have a handbook? Nice find! Also, I can't find it in the tier listing, and am not familiar with it in play (I've never been in a game with a Wu Jen.) Does anyone know roughly how powerful it is?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Hengeyokai level adjustment was reduced to +0 in, I believe, one of the Oriental Dragon Mag issues, in exchange for their type becoming Humanoid (shapeshifter). Which... really doesn't do anything, but whatever.

Really? That's a very nice find - do you happen to know the Dragon issue?


For the record, is the handbook going to be focused on using the Wu Jen as a full caster on par with a Wizard, or will it have a section about using Wu Jen in Gish builds, as well?

It'll be primarily focused on full spellcasting until I finish at least the basics, then I'll probably run through again and add any gish notes, as needed.


Also, something that I request be in this handbook: What are spirits in the game? How do Commune with Spirit/Spirit Binding work, and what does that mean for the setting? And so on. The most I've found on that subject was a sidebar in Complete Divine near the Spirit Shaman, so advice for people without Oriental Adventures would be greatly appreciated.

I'm plumbing all my books, seeing what WotC has defined as Spirits; so far I have Complete Divine, Unapproachable East and Oriental Adventures searched through.

[Jarian]

Really? That's a very nice find - do you happen to know the Dragon issue?

Google says 318.

Edit: And on that note, you should mention Lesser Planetouched (like Tieflings, Genasi (Air and Para-Genasi in particular), etc) as LA +0 options.


Does anyone know roughly how powerful it is?

It's a fullcaster with 9th level spells and free metamagic, and a variety of powerful tricks. It's not in the big three, but I'd give it tier 1, maybe tier 2, myself.

[sreservoir]

Wow...a full Int caster that didn't already have a handbook? Nice find! Also, I can't find it in the tier listing, and am not familiar with it in play (I've never been in a game with a Wu Jen.) Does anyone know roughly how powerful it is?

it's generally accepted to be something of a tier 2, possibly a low tier 1, iirc -- while, certainly, it can do the whole changing up prepared spells every day thing, its spell list is horribly short, because it didn't get updated with every new book; nevertheless, it has enough broken toys right out of the box.

kind of like psionics on a prepared model, I guess, and perhaps somewhat weaker than an erudite without spell-to-power, even; the erudite's tier has been debated in the past.

mind, since the difference between tiers 1/2 is just versatility, one might note that wu jen has the power to smash campaigns. the question is more of how many ways can it do it.

[Urpriest]

Wow...a full Int caster that didn't already have a handbook? Nice find! Also, I can't find it in the tier listing, and am not familiar with it in play (I've never been in a game with a Wu Jen.) Does anyone know roughly how powerful it is?

I haven't seen it in play, but most descriptions peg it in the Low Tier 1 to Tier 3 range. It's got a few of the Wizard's tricks (Summoning, some Divination), but arguably few enough that it's essentially a prepared Tier 2, and maybe as low as 3. Depends a bit on what counts as a spirit and how common they are.

[Arcanist]

Wow, I even checked to be sure and this is legitimately the first Wu Jen handbook :smallamused: even a google search yields no handbooks :smalltongue: Quite revolutionary if I say so myself :smallsmile:

You can find most if not all handbooks here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, I've updated the Class Features post to mention every scrap of information I could find regarding [spirit] creatures.

It's a more impressive list than I thought that it would be.

[Madara]

Don't mind me, just being useful :smallbiggrin:


Wu Jen Spells(CArc)
I bolded ones that I recommend. Feel free to disagree, I don't have a lot of experience with Wu Jen.

1st level

Cobra's Breath(Debuff): 10ft. Cone of poison deals 1d3 Con Damage. Fort Save. No verbal Components.
Animate Water/Animate Wood(Minion): Creates animated object. Wood has Hardness 5, but water has double hit points.
Charm Person(Utility): As always, very useful.
Comprehend Languages(Utility): This is situational, but if you can get it, go ahead. It might come in handy.
Ghost Light: Lasts as long as concentration. Causes creatures within 30ft. to become shaken. Will save. The light has a move speed of 30ft.!! Apparently you can change the shape of the light to make it seem to do different things. Great debuff
Silent Image: As always, very versatile. Power= Creativity.
Sleep: Good at low levels, can be a show stopper.
Summon Monster: Yep, good ole' summon monster

2nd level

Animate Fire: As animate Wood, but fire subtype and the burn special attack of a fire elemental. This is not worth the 2nd level spell.
Animal Boosts: Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace...ect. Can be useful at low levels for the boosts.
Fire Shuriken: Two things. One, you get proficiency with them, which is nice. They deal 3d6 fire damage on a hit. Normal ranged(not touch) attack is lame. However, the duration is instantaneous, and they appear to only disappear when thrown. So I guess you could maybe make a stock of them to use as your primary weapon. 3d6 isn't too shaby for a thrown weapon.(Questionable, someone feel free to look it over)

Entangling Scarf: Not really, entangled is a nice status effect, but you need a ranged touch attack and they get a reflex save.

Ice Knife: Another normal ranged attack, but you get a +2 bonus on the attack roll for every two caster levels. That's the redeeming quality. If it hits, you get 2d8 cold damage and if they fail a Fort save, 2 Dex damage. The nice thing is this spell has Long Range, and can be an area attack, as a 10ft. burst for 1d8 Reflex half. Overall, its not that great, even for a blasting spell. But its one of the few you have.

Alter Self: Classic Shenanigans

Apparition: You make someone so ugly they scare people. You get to choose the features! Will save for those who see the face, or they are shaken. Its touch range, so either use it on yourself or an ally in combat. Its a nice fear effect.

Kiss of the Toad: Touch range and Fortitude negates. Still, its a pretty good debuff. Two chances to do 1d6 Con damage. Even if they succeed on one save, they still have to make the other. Make sure to note the unusual focus.

Lightning Blade: At first, its cool. You touch someone and they get to wield it as a longsword. It does 1d6 damage/caster level. But, they have to "gamble" the dice and succeed on attacks to hit. Still, it uses a melee touch attack or a 30ft. line ranged touch attack. Give it to someone with a good attack bonus and it'll be useful.

Rope Trick: Somewhere for the Wu Jen to hide in from Wizards. Also, the usual shenanigans.

3rd level

Fire Wings: Duration: 10min/level. You can't hold items or cast spells with somatic components, since your arms turn into wings. fly speed at 60ft. good. You can also make unarmed attacks at a -4 penalty to do 2d6 damage. Double threat makes this almost as good as normal fly.

Magnetism: You can pull metal towards you. Up to 8,000 pounds for unattended objects(That's pretty good). If the object is held, you need a disarm attempt, but you have a +10 strength mod for that purpose. Objects that aren't held force a reflex save and give you an opportunity for disarm. This is good.

Steam Breath: Nothing special, I don't suggest taking this. It's the equivalent of fireball, but a 30ft. Cone

Stinking Cloud: Very useful, make sure to prepare this and use it for debuff.

Commune with Lesser Spirit: long casting time, and you have to actually know the identity of the spirit(Not sure what it means by this) and you must be within 10ft. and you must ask questions that could have one-word answers and "Unclear" is a valid answer!. Too many limitations to be very useful.

Elemental Eye(CM): As Scrying but you turn one small item into a mobile sensor. It seems pretty good. I wonder if you could animate it?


Edit: Adding Fourth level spells

4th level spells

Scrying: What focus would the Wu Jen use? Still, its very useful. A must have.

Dimension Door: Teleport away from the enemies! As always, its a pretty good spell.

Stoneskin: Works for the druids, it works pretty well for you. It's a good buff.

Poison Needles: Besides the normal ranged attack, this is really good. It can Paralyze, do Dex damage, or do Con damage. I'm gonna say this is a keeper.

Solid Fog: Still pretty good debuffing. The cloud spells are always useful.

Water to Poison: Situational. It created an ingested poison which is colorless and tasteless. It creates a lot of this poison, with an instant duration and a save DC equal to the spell. It does Con damage. So its a pretty good situational debuff.

Animate Dead: Yep, you have animate dead, technically, you could be a necromancer.

Charm Monster: Still pretty good.

Creeping Darkness: Oh. My. Gosh! Its a cloud that seeps through cracks. But here's the good part, no save or SR. All within the cloud are treated as Deafened and Blinded. And they can't speak or cast spells with verbal components. This is really good!! And it has a duration of a nice 3 rounds/ level.

Heart Ripper: This hits a number of creatures with HD equal to your caster level, none of which can have more than 4 HD. Still its a good Save or die for this level.

Pain: Save or Suck, even if they save, they still take a penalty. With a duration of 1 minute, this is a pretty good debuff.
Invisibility, Greater: This is really nice, good to keep safe with.

Polymorph: Normal Shenanigans

Spirit Binding, Lesser: Limited to spirits, but this can be better than planar ally! You get this as a 4th level, rather than the 5th level Planar Binding, this one works on 8 HD rather than 6. Yep, this thing is better. Just find some good spirits. I suggest Incorpreal Undead.
Shout: Sonic damage can be very useful, but blasting isn't your strong suit.

Notably: Spirit Binding is better than Planar Binding. Creeping Darkness is a really good Debuff. Poison Needles is nice to have as a Debuff/ Save or DIe. Heart Ripper is not! touch, so it turns out to be a good save or die for the level. And the Wu Jen gets some normal Shenanigans. This is a very good level to be a Wu Jen.

[Little Brother]

I notice a distinct lack of Grey Elf.

Also, Arctic template. From a Dragon, yes, but -2 Dex +2 Con is great, not to mention minor resistances, SLAs, and other goodies. LA 0.

Also, Lesser Teiflings are nifty. You lose the weapon proficiency and immunities for LA 0. Also, if you want the Outsider type for free-ish, here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

[Madara]

I'll point it out. I might bring it up in a different thread, but I think Lesser Spirit Binding is better than Planar Binding. If someone could find good spirits to bind, this could create a new series of Spirit Binding Builds.

[eggs]

I'm jazzed to see this. :smallsmile:
Would it be appropriate to prospectively outline Spell Compendium's additions to the Wu Jen spell list?
(SpC specifically states that it adds to the Wu Jen list; it just doesn't specifically state what it adds.)


You can find most if not all handbooks here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0)
Shaman hasn't even gotten a shout-out?
*plots*

[Madara]

Would it be appropriate to prospectively outline Spell Compendium's additions to the Wu Jen spell list?
(SpC specifically states that it adds to the Wu Jen list; it just doesn't specifically state what it adds.)

By RAI, yes. It would certainly be useful, at least to me. I don't know about the others. By RAW, it won't do much unless it gives specifics. So it could probably have a place in the guide.

I'm looking up Spirits. It seems the best use is to have the templates that would make things count as spirits. For example:

Spirit Animal(Frost): Turns an animal into an Incorpreal Fey
Ghost, Frostfell(Frost): Additional Ghost powers: A cold ray with Con damage!, An aura that does auto frostburn damage, and has a chance for disease, and a touch attack with 2d6 frostburn damage, SR 13+HD!

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm jazzed to see this. :smallsmile:
Would it be appropriate to prospectively outline Spell Compendium's additions to the Wu Jen spell list?
(SpC specifically states that it adds to the Wu Jen list; it just doesn't specifically state what it adds.)


It would indeed be appropriate. I'm going to go and plumb the depths of Complete Mage as well, probably tomorrow or the day after.


By RAI, yes. It would certainly be useful, at least to me. I don't know about the others. By RAW, it won't do much unless it gives specifics. So it could probably have a place in the guide.

I'm looking up Spirits. It seems the best use is to have the templates that would make things count as spirits. For example:

Spirit Animal(Frost): Turns an animal into an Incorpreal Fey
Ghost, Frostfell(Frost): Additional Ghost powers: A cold ray with Con damage!, An aura that does auto frostburn damage, and has a chance for disease, and a touch attack with 2d6 frostburn damage, SR 13+HD!

Telthor is another one that turns Animals (or humanoids!) into creatures of the [spirit] type (specifically, incorporeal fey).

And guess what else I just remebered. Elemental Weirds are spirits. Unfortunately 15HD, but beggars can't be choosers.

[Madara]

It would indeed be appropriate. I'm going to go and plumb the depths of Complete Mage as well, probably tomorrow or the day after.



Telthor is another one that turns Animals (or humanoids!) into creatures of the [spirit] type (specifically, incorporeal fey).

And guess what else I just remebered. Elemental Weirds are spirits. Unfortunately 15HD, but beggars can't be choosers.

That's true. I thought of Paraelementals. In manuel of the planes, Large ones have exactly 8HD, but I don't have the PlH, so someone would have to check it for me. Also, spirit binding does 16 HD, so Weirds work.

After about 5th level, Wu Jen don't get very many unique things. But they do get some nice stuff, I mean just look at 9th level spells! Same stuff as the Wizard.

I'm gonna call them T2 at lower levels, then T1 because they start to have regular broken stuff.

[The Underlord]

Cool, I have been thinking about making this. Might create an example build.

[Madara]

A little google-fu indicates that at some time, Zombulian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=64142) was putting together a list of all Wu Jen spells. He never posted it, but it might be worth asking.

[Arcanist]

Shaman hasn't even gotten a shout-out?
*plots*

Lol, there no handbooks for: Swashbuckler, Samurai, Favored Soul, Divine Mind (WIP), Erudite, or Soulknife. So if you're interested go for it :smallsmile:

[Kuulvheysoon]

That's true. I thought of Paraelementals. In manuel of the planes, Large ones have exactly 8HD, but I don't have the PlH, so someone would have to check it for me. Also, spirit binding does 16 HD, so Weirds work.

After about 5th level, Wu Jen don't get very many unique things. But they do get some nice stuff, I mean just look at 9th level spells! Same stuff as the Wizard.

I'm gonna call them T2 at lower levels, then T1 because they start to have regular broken stuff.

Lol. Wu Jen, if they've met a Weird, get access to a monster that casts as an 18th level sorceror... at 11th level.

They do get one kind of odd 9th level spell - Internal Fire. It's a save vs. death spell... with no [death] tag.

As for other spells after 5th level... Decapitating Scarf (7th) is another save vs. death (no [death] tag) that deals d4/CL on a failed Fortitude save. Reanimation (7th) is a pseudo-Raise Dead that's... very odd. Withering Palm (another 7th, jeez)) could be nice for a gish-type. Actually, Body Outside Body and Giant Size are also 7th level. Seems to be a good level for Wu Jen.

There's also a little sidebar about adding spells found on the Wu Jen list in OA but not in CAr; might be an easy way to add spells. I'll search through it tomorrow tonight - added to Spells section, along with starting my breakdown of the Wu Jen only spells.


Cool, I have been thinking about making this. Might create an example build.

If you submit it, it's more than likely that I'll post it (with full credit, of course)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Erudite is essentially a psion variant, so one could use the excelent psion handbook over at BG/minmax boards(posskbky I don't remember if it was ported over).

And I have you 3.5 Soulknife handbook right here: Don't play a Soulknife, or if you are deadset in creating weapons with your mind, use a Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior. :smalltongue:

On the other hand, PF Soulknife is awesome and Psiren has a great handbook (still unfinished; but it has great potential.)

[Madara]

Elemite Swarms(PlH) are perfect, with 7HD and Swarm subtype the are exactly what the optimized Wu Jen would use. Water ones can drown people :smallamused:

I think I'm pretty much done looking through spells, there isn't much else to review. But I think I'll join those coming up with sample builds :smallsmile:

I hope the Wu Jen has some more spells. CM had some(The Heart of Elements and a few more) but they weren't exactly...special.

[Arcanist]

Erudite is essentially a psion variant, so one could use the excelent psion handbook over at BG/minmax boards(posskbky I don't remember if it was ported over).

It hasn't been ported over yet, unfortunately but it still exist. Honestly, I'd want to say that the easiest and simplest Erudite handbook can be summarized is: Take StP, your getting much more then you losing.


And I have you 3.5 Soulknife handbook right here: Don't play a Soulknife, or if you are deadset in creating weapons with your mind, use a Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior. :smalltongue:

Lol, OH YOU :smalltongue:


On the other hand, PF Soulknife is awesome and Psyren has a great handbook (still unfinished; but it has great potential.)

Might you be so kind as to link me to his Psionic handbook? I like him, he has magnificent taste in manga :smallamused:

EDIT: Wu Jen is an arcane caster, most of the builds for it have already been created... Needless to say, I'll want to make a Theurge for it :smalltongue:

[ThiagoMartell]

Wow, good to have this.
Spirit Binding is nifty - I had never noticed that.
I'm currently thinking about what lies in a specific continent in my homebrew setting... I think I'll go with Wu Jens instead of Wizards, for starters. Spirit Folk as a common race, something like that.


Lol, there no handbooks for: Swashbuckler, Samurai, Favored Soul, Divine Mind (WIP), Erudite, or Soulknife. So if you're interested go for it :smallsmile:

Actually, Soulknife had an extensive handbook back in 339.
It was pretty good. It explained "Soulknives are not very powerful, let's see what we have and try to work around it". Loved that about 339, you would very rarely get people saying "X sucks, play Y". You would get "X is not very good, it will be a bit hard to make it work, but we can do it. Also, do you know Y does most of what X does better? It's in Book Z, check it out."

[Psyren]

Might you be so kind as to link me to his Psionic handbook? I like him, he has magnificent taste in manga :smallamused:

Why thank you, on both counts :smallredface:

It's in my sig, and the reason it's not finished is that I'm waiting for Psionics Expanded to be fully uploaded to the d20pfsrd. In the meantime, there were other handbooks (like my Psychic Rogue and Vitalist handbooks, plus another couple I'm actively working on) that I was able to bump up the queue.

[eggs]

Loved that about 339, you would very rarely get people saying "X sucks, play Y".
I think you and I had drastically different experiences there. That was the only response any of my threads seemed to get. Immediately preceding gleemax anyway.

[ThiagoMartell]

I think you and I had drastically different experiences there. That was the only response any of my threads seemed to get. Immediately preceding gleemax anyway.

Count yourself lucky, then.
Pre-Gleemax the usual answer was 'do you this McBuilds? do it yourself' :smallwink:

[sreservoir]

I notice a distinct lack of Grey Elf.

Also, Arctic template. From a Dragon, yes, but -2 Dex +2 Con is great, not to mention minor resistances, SLAs, and other goodies. LA 0.

Also, Lesser Teiflings are nifty. You lose the weapon proficiency and immunities for LA 0. Also, if you want the Outsider type for free-ish, here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

arctic is -2 cha. slas is a bit of an overstatement -- it's one 1/day sla. also, minor penalty, too.

also GIANT LIMBO FROGS are free outsider-type, too, more or less.

[Little Brother]

arctic is -2 cha. slas is a bit of an overstatement -- it's one 1/day sla. also, minor penalty, too.

also GIANT LIMBO FROGS are free outsider-type, too, more or less.Oh derp. You're right. And, meh. I built an Optothorp with a bunch of Ikea Commoners. The SLA did the most damage, overall, outside of thrown flasks. And I thought they got something else. Hm, I'm derpy today.

Also, Tiefling/Aasimar gives you a stat bonus. They're superior, and don't look like frogs.

[ThiagoMartell]

Oh derp. You're right. And, meh. I built an Optothorp with a bunch of Ikea Commoners. The SLA did the most damage, overall, outside of thrown flasks. And I thought they got something else. Hm, I'm derpy today.

Also, Tiefling/Aasimar gives you a stat bonus. They're superior, and don't look like frogs.

Neraph gets outsider type, +2 NA, +9 total skill bonus and two racial abilities equivalents to feats (neraph throw/charge). I can't really see how lesser planetouched compete with it, since it lacks outsider type.

[Little Brother]

Neraph gets outsider type, +2 NA, +9 total skill bonus and two racial abilities equivalents to feats (neraph throw/charge). I can't really see how lesser planetouched compete with it, since it lacks outsider type.Not lesser, Savage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

[ThiagoMartell]

Not lesser, Savage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

Aren't you required to take all levels in racial classes?

EDIT: Also, +2 Cha and light once a day against everything Neraph offers... I'd still take Neraph.

[Madara]

How do you guys think MotAO would work with the Wu Jen? It can qualify, and would work well. For "New Spell", would it gain a spell from a wizard's spellbook? Would it have to be one they have on their spell list?

What about the spellpool? Would it open up a large amount of flexibility?

[Optimator]

Excellent! Wu Jen are sweeeeet.

My favorite enemy NPC I ever threw at a party was a Sunscorch Hobgoblin Wu Jen Jade Phoenix Mage gish who used Trancend Mortality along with Emerald Immolation, plus Giant Size and Body outside of Body and a smattering of Wizard spells I thought were appropriate (Bite of the Werebear, Elemental Body, Wraithstrike, etc).

The party liked him so much they spared him.

Complete Mage has some fun Wu Jen stuff. Also, page 4 of the Spell Compendium helps out Wu Jens a TON.

[Madara]

Yeah. It'd be more useful if there was a RAW list of spells added to the Wu Jen in the Spell Compendium, but it could make a good community project.

[Zombulian]

Lol, there no handbooks for: Swashbuckler, Samurai, Favored Soul, Divine Mind (WIP), Erudite, or Soulknife. So if you're interested go for it :smallsmile:

Swashbuckler Handbook: take 3 levels of this class for some piratey flavor and some Int synergy on damage. JOB DONE.

I actually have a friend who could make the Samurai handbook. He's gotten pretty good at making them less useless.

[Talionis]

Excellent! Wu Jen are sweeeeet.

My favorite enemy NPC I ever threw at a party was a Sunscorch Hobgoblin Wu Jen Jade Phoenix Mage gish who used Trancend Mortality along with Emerald Immolation, plus Giant Size and Body outside of Body and a smattering of Wizard spells I thought were appropriate (Bite of the Werebear, Elemental Body, Wraithstrike, etc).

The party liked him so much they spared him.

Complete Mage has some fun Wu Jen stuff. Also, page 4 of the Spell Compendium helps out Wu Jens a TON.

Body outside of Body with Archmage allows the clones to make more clones since the clones can use Spell like abilities. I always liked pairing that with the Devoted Spirit Stance Immortal Fortitude.

[Empedocles]

I actually have a friend who could make the Samurai handbook. He's gotten pretty good at making them less useless.

I'm curious now...

[Arcanist]

I'm curious now...

I maintain that same level of curiousity :smallconfused:

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm curious now...


I maintain that same level of curiousity :smallconfused:

It'll probably be fear focused (via Kiai Shout) and abuse the fact that they can 'effectively' dual wield in heavy armor while dumping Dexterity.

[Madara]

It'll probably be fear focused (via Kiai Shout) and abuse the fact that they can 'effectively' dual wield in heavy armor while dumping Dexterity.

"Look who's online!"
*Looks for updates to the handbook, sees none*
"Work Handbook slave! You must continue to work!"
:smallwink:

[Zombulian]

It'll probably be fear focused (via Kiai Shout) and abuse the fact that they can 'effectively' dual wield in heavy armor while dumping Dexterity.

Yeaaaa that's how he did it once. And of course Iajutsu Focus.

[eggs]

Yeaaaa that's how he did it once. And of course Iajutsu Focus.

I'm hoping that means he's multiclassing Samurai/Samurai. :smalltongue:

...and hopefully prestige classing into Dragon Samurai

[Mithril Leaf]

For races a lot of people seem to ignore the good old half-giant. The racial progression from Complete Psionic has a no level adjustment sort of version of the half giant. You can then proceed to throw primordeal giant on a 0 LA class. Enjoy your +4 int and charisma.

[ThiagoMartell]

For races a lot of people seem to ignore the good old half-giant. The racial progression from Complete Psionic has a no level adjustment sort of version of the half giant. You can then proceed to throw primordeal giant on a 0 LA class. Enjoy your +4 int and charisma.

You can't "dip" racial progressions.

[Psyren]

Lol, there no handbooks for: Swashbuckler, Samurai, Favored Soul, Divine Mind (WIP), Erudite, or Soulknife. So if you're interested go for it :smallsmile:

Don't forget Jester, Mountebank, Savant or Battledancer as well.

I've been toying with a Mountebank/Psibond Agent with tons of Charisma for awhile. Dominate Monster that ignores SR = rogue with pet dragon :smallbiggrin:

[Talionis]

Ideas for the guide:

Include an expanded list of Taboos. I always feel so weird about the progression of Taboos. It always seems like adding Kyrptonite like weaknesses to a character. I also never understood having to add more as my character progressed, it seemed like even greater reason to enter a Prestige Class.

Also, I think it's the Spell Compendium suggests adding all elemental spells to the Wu Jen spell list. That has the potential of adding a whole heck of a lot of spells, some may add some significant utility.

[ThiagoMartell]

Don't forget Jester, Mountebank, Savant or Battledancer as well.

I've been toying with a Mountebank/Psibond Agent with tons of Charisma for awhile. Dominate Monster that ignores SR = rogue with pet dragon :smallbiggrin:

I've been playing a Mountebank. It's not bad at all.

[Urpriest]

You can't "dip" racial progressions.

You explicitly can with some of the online ones. That said, you can't with the Complete Psionic ones.

[ThiagoMartell]

You explicitly can with some of the online ones. That said, you can't with the Complete Psionic ones.

As usual, Urpriest is correct.

[Kuulvheysoon]

"Look who's online!"
*Looks for updates to the handbook, sees none*
"Work Handbook slave! You must continue to work!"
:smallwink:

I've been working - I just thought that everyone would prefer larger updates over smaller, more numerous updates.


Ideas for the guide:

Include an expanded list of Taboos. I always feel so weird about the progression of Taboos. It always seems like adding Kyrptonite like weaknesses to a character. I also never understood having to add more as my character progressed, it seemed like even greater reason to enter a Prestige Class.

Also, I think it's the Spell Compendium suggests adding all elemental spells to the Wu Jen spell list. That has the potential of adding a whole heck of a lot of spells, some may add some significant utility.

An excellent idea. Under Class Features, I'll add a spoiler outlining some suggestions for additional taboos.

As the SpC only suggests adding the spells, I'll definitely toss in a mention (as it's very DM dependent, since it doesn't explicitly add them), along with a page reference.

[Madara]

I've been working - I just thought that everyone would prefer larger updates over smaller, more numerous updates.


It could go either way. With smaller-more numerous, we have things to talk about and comment on, which keeps the thread from falling to another page.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Added some new stuff to Class Features, reorganized it so it looks nicer. I've gotten all of the unique Wu Jen spell from CAr written down, now it's simply a matter of typing them up.

If anyone has any ideas for additional taboos, feel free to chime in and I'll add them. Should I also add the ones presented in CAr?

[Arcanist]

Don't forget Jester, Mountebank, Savant or Battledancer as well.

I've been toying with a Mountebank/Psibond Agent with tons of Charisma for awhile. Dominate Monster that ignores SR = rogue with pet dragon :smallbiggrin:

I'm tempted to take over LB's The urge to Theurge since he recently got banned, but I feel that would add insult to injury... :smallfrown:

Mentioned this Wu-Jen guide in the Urge to Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247259) :smallsmile: as I've stated it is subject to change upon new information at any time :smallsmile:

[Amphetryon]

I'm glad to see a Wu Jen Handbook. I'd be interested in seeing a "Lucky Wu Jen" build focused on the fact that it gets a built-in re-roll mechanic, and exploring more options for re-rolling to tip the scales in his favor. If you'd like, I could try to whip one or two up.

[Madara]

Suggestion

1. I think an entire section could be devoted to Spirit Binding(Maybe I'll just make a separate handbook?)

With that said, I recommend the Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) which casts spells as a 7th level Bard. It could be very useful to have the buffs and healing.

[sreservoir]

Suggestion

1. I think an entire section could be devoted to Spirit Binding(Maybe I'll just make a separate handbook?)

With that said, I recommend the Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) which casts spells as a 7th level Bard. It could be very useful to have the buffs and healing.

also +2 LA and a bunch of rhd, so uh.

[Dusk Eclipse]

also +2 LA and a bunch of rhd, so uh.

He meant as a target for a spirit binding spell, Fey are treated as spirits for the purpose of said spells. So in that context Gloura are pretty nice.

[Madara]

He meant as a target for a spirit binding spell, Fey are treated as spirits for the purpose of said spells. So in that context Gloura are pretty nice.

Yep, getting access to other spells is always nice.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Part of why Planar Binding and Planar Ally (to a lesser degree) are so broken if you use them intelligently.

To be honest I tend to think that Wu Jen as a whole are much more suited to being the arcane back bone of a Gish build, many of their "signature" spells are better suited to a melee role (Giant Size, the various scarf spells, Poison darts, etc)... heck I think a magical ranged gish is not a bad option at all.

[Khedrac]

To be honest I tend to think that Wu Jen as a whole are much more suited to being the arcane back bone of a Gish build, many of their "signature" spells are better suited to a melee role (Giant Size, the various scarf spells, Poison darts, etc)... heck I think a magical ranged gish is not a bad option at all.
An this is why I am REALLY looking forward to this handbook. So many spells that need you to be in melee or close to it - so few spells that enable you to survive there: No Mage Armour or Shield, just one very similar to Barkskin.
Now if you are in a party with a wizard who can do the mage armour on you...

[Kuulvheysoon]

An this is why I am REALLY looking forward to this handbook. So many spells that need you to be in melee or close to it - so few spells that enable you to survive there: No Mage Armour or Shield, just one very similar to Barkskin.
Now if you are in a party with a wizard who can do the mage armour on you...

You're referring to Scales of the Lizard, correct? It is similar to Barkskin, except for one major difference: duration. While Barkskin is hour/level, SotL is 1 minute. Not a minute per level, one minute flat. That, and it scales quite a bit slower than Barkskin.

Also, Shield is on the Wu Jen spellist.

[Amphetryon]

You're referring to Scales of the Lizard, correct? It is similar to Barkskin, except for one major difference: duration. While Barkskin is hour/level, SotL is 1 minute. Not a minute per level, one minute flat. That, and it scales quite a bit slower than Barkskin.

Also, Shield is on the Wu Jen spellist.I see what you did there.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I see what you did there.

*facepalm*

...Would you believe me if I said that that was completely accidental?

[Piggy Knowles]

It is similar to Barkskin, except for one major difference: duration. While Barkskin is hour/level, SotL is 1 minute. Not a minute per level, one minute flat.

Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm) is actually 10 minutes/level. Your point still stands - the one minute duration on Scales of the Lizard makes it pretty sad. That said, for some reason I see people make the mistake of thinking Barkskin has the same duration as Magic Vestment all the time...

[Kuulvheysoon]

Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm) is actually 10 minutes/level. Your point still stands - the one minute duration on Scales of the Lizard makes it pretty sad. That said, for some reason I see people make the mistake of thinking Barkskin has the same duration as Magic Vestment all the time...

Well, I know that I mistake it for hour/level is because of NWN/NWN2 - there it's hour/level.

Huh. Looks like SotL scales at the same rate as Barkskin, but you get access to it an entire spell level earlier.

[Madara]

Sidebar: Which Elemental Group should I choose to master?

Your choice of Elemental Group mastery isn't actually as essential as the book makes it sound. Effectively, you're getting a free Spell Penetration feat, slightly extended spell durations, and some bonus damage with spells of your selected group.


This could actually give advice on which Elemental group to pick. While it doesn't matter as much, it would probably be good to pick an element with lots of spells that would enjoy such benefits.

[Kuulvheysoon]

This could actually give advice on which Elemental group to pick. While it doesn't matter as much, it would probably be good to pick an element with lots of spells that would enjoy such benefits.

That part is still undergoing edits - I haven't gotten my hard copy of Complete Mage returned to me yet, and I prefer to use the books for things like this.

The other problem is that most of the Wu Jen spells (especially lower/mid-level spells) either have low capped damage (5d4 for a 4th level spell (Poison Needles)? What the Hell?) or have set durations rather than X/level durations (Giant Size, Scales of the Lizard, Body Outside Body, etc...

It's... interesting to find suggestions worthy of other people.

[The Underlord]

So some spells that Wu-Jen specific spells that you don't have listed(and my opinion on them). Most of them aren't particularly good though(you could have a 'spells to avoid section or something similar)
1st Level
Cobra Breath: Save or 1d3 Con Damage. At lower levels it might be useful but beyond that, you will probably never use it as the con damage is negligible
Elemental Burst" Depends on your elemental mastery. Either it is Save or 1d8 damage, or Save or you get knocked prone(Water mastery) Save or knocked prone can be semi-useful if you have a really high save DC but since most of the things you fight at later levels are fairly large, it won't be useful
Iron scarf: First: What is upwith the scarf fetish the writers had when writing the Wu Jen spells? Anyway, does a minor bit of damage. Maybe useful early in the game because of the no save or spell resistance
Melt:If you are in a cold environment and are really really creative you might be able to get a use out of it. if you aren't this spell is worthless
Scales of the lizard: if you don't have a druid that will cast Barkskin which is the same thing for long duration, this is a must have for gishes
Secret Signs The only advantage this has over message is that you can used it when bound and you don't need to whisper(so they can't read your lips). If you have a wizard with message, you probably won't need this
Smoke ladder For when use just really need to climb something and you don't care who see you. If you are creative there are potentially more uses of it like using it as a bridge.
2nd level
Entangling scarf: A poorman's Entangle. You have to make a ranged touch attack AND they have to fail a reflex save. Pass
Ice Blast: Pretty decent actually. save or take some cold damage and be fatigued for 1 minute. No charge and a penalty to strength for them.
Lightning Blade: An odd spells, but can be useful for the line effect if you want direct damage.
Protection from Charm:: If you know you are going to need this, you might take this, but in general pass as the duration is too short and the effect is too specific to use one of you spells known on.
[B]Rain of needles[/B As the damage is split between targets, the damage is really crappy. No need to choose this spell

[Kuulvheysoon]

So some spells that Wu-Jen specific spells that you don't have listed(and my opinion on them). Most of them aren't particularly good though(you could have a 'spells to avoid section or something similar)
1st Level
Cobra Breath: Save or 1d3 Con Damage. At lower levels it might be useful but beyond that, you will probably never use it as the con damage is negligible
Elemental Burst" Depends on your elemental mastery. Either it is Save or 1d8 damage, or Save or you get knocked prone(Water mastery) Save or knocked prone can be semi-useful if you have a really high save DC but since most of the things you fight at later levels are fairly large, it won't be useful
Iron scarf: First: What is upwith the scarf fetish the writers had when writing the Wu Jen spells? Anyway, does a minor bit of damage. Maybe useful early in the game because of the no save or spell resistance
Melt:If you are in a cold environment and are really really creative you might be able to get a use out of it. if you aren't this spell is worthless
Scales of the lizard: if you don't have a druid that will cast Barkskin which is the same thing for long duration, this is a must have for gishes
Secret Signs The only advantage this has over message is that you can used it when bound and you don't need to whisper(so they can't read your lips). If you have a wizard with message, you probably won't need this
Smoke ladder For when use just really need to climb something and you don't care who see you. If you are creative there are potentially more uses of it like using it as a bridge.
2nd level
Entangling scarf: A poorman's Entangle. You have to make a ranged touch attack AND they have to fail a reflex save. Pass
Ice Blast: Pretty decent actually. save or take some cold damage and be fatigued for 1 minute. No charge and a penalty to strength for them.
Lightning Blade: An odd spells, but can be useful for the line effect if you want direct damage.
Protection from Charm:: If you know you are going to need this, you might take this, but in general pass as the duration is too short and the effect is too specific to use one of you spells known on.
[B]Rain of needles[/B As the damage is split between targets, the damage is really crappy. No need to choose this spell


Thanks for the hand.

I've actually already (mostly) finished up to fourth level - I want to finish all of the unique spells before I upload them all.

Excellent catch on Rain of Needles, however - I missed the clause where you had to split the damage. Lame indeed.

And the Wu Jen (metal) list seems to be 80% needle/scarf related. At least with the scarf line you now have an excuse to wear a stylish scarf. :smallamused:

[Madara]

Thanks for the hand.

I've actually already (mostly) finished up to fourth level - I want to finish all of the unique spells before I upload them all.

Excellent catch on Rain of Needles, however - I missed the clause where you had to split the damage. Lame indeed.

And the Wu Jen (metal) list seems to be 80% needle/scarf related. At least with the scarf line you now have an excuse to wear a stylish scarf. :smallamused:

A section of the handbook devoted to which scarf to wear, perhaps? :smallwink:

Right now, the only Wu-Jen-only spell I like is Ghost light, which is only useful at lower levels, but is a great spell.

Technically, the spell says you can make any shape with it. So perhaps you could use it as a sign, or signal? You could use it for messages as well. Pretty good for a low-level spell.

[Madara]

Any more updates? I'd hate to see it stop here :smallfrown:

[Arcanist]

To be honest I tend to think that Wu Jen as a whole are much more suited to being the arcane back bone of a Gish build, many of their "signature" spells are better suited to a melee role (Giant Size, the various scarf spells, Poison darts, etc)... heck I think a magical ranged gish is not a bad option at all.

I agree actually on this. With stuff like Accuracy, The Scarf spells, access to polymorph abuse, Giant Size (and Minute Size), Transcend Mortality shenanigans, Gate abuse, and if you want to find an easier way to abuse an acorn of far travel set up a tree just use Arboreal Transformation on bob the commoner and go to your desired location. Honestly Complete Arcane by itself gives you everything you would need to break a game and adding in Complete Mage is just gravy :smallbiggrin:

Wu-Jen/1 Druid/3 Mystic Theurge/1 Arcane Hierophant/10 Mystic Theruge +5

Arcane: 17
Divine: 19

Early entry tricks were clearly used, enjoy your God.

Theurge builds aside, Wu-Jens are pretty friken awesome :smalltongue:

[Kuulvheysoon]

All excellent ideas, guys.

I haven't given up on this, but life's been extremely hectic.

I've been reduced to thinking up builds during my daily commute as my daily contribution to this handbook.

As an aside, I've been thinking - would Elemental Mastery count for an increased caster level for the purposes of Prestige Class entry as well? As in something that has a prerequisite of 'Caster level 10th'.

Thoughts?

[sonofzeal]

I've been working - I just thought that everyone would prefer larger updates over smaller, more numerous updates.
I vote for the latter. I'm making a Wu-Jen now, know virtually nothing about how to make a new one, and am kind of distressed at how little advice there is hereanywhere. If you've got advice on feats and spell choices, I'd love to hear it.

You don't have to type up the mechanics of each spell though. That might violate copyright, and you can generally assume that anyone who wants to play the class has the relevant books and can fill in the details. The important part is the analysis about which ones are any good.

So, that's my vote. Get feat and spell advice up. Builds can always be added later, but those aren't going to apply to many people using this handbook, whereas every Wu Jen needs feats and spells.

[Madara]

So, that's my vote. Get feat and spell advice up. Builds can always be added later, but those aren't going to apply to many people using this handbook, whereas every Wu Jen needs feats and spells.

If you're despite, you can find my analysis of most of the spells below the handbook. At the very least, it should be able to point you in the right direction.




As an aside, I've been thinking - would Elemental Mastery count for an increased caster level for the purposes of Prestige Class entry as well? As in something that has a prerequisite of 'Caster level 10th'.

Thoughts?

I don't think so...but I'm not sure were to find the ruling on that. Also, I don't think that's the requirement for any of the PrCs.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I don't think so...but I'm not sure were to find the ruling on that. Also, I don't think that's the requirement for any of the PrCs.

It's in the prerequisites for Acolyte of the Skin and Loremaster (off the top of my head, I mean)

[Madara]

The abilities from the Dead levels series are kinda disappointing.. :smallsigh:

[Kuulvheysoon]

The abilities from the Dead levels series are kinda disappointing.. :smallsigh:

I can actually see the first one getting some use (Knowledge Devotion), but the second... I've got nothing.

[Madara]

I can actually see the first one getting some use (Knowledge Devotion), but the second... I've got nothing.

Wizards doesn't understand, people don't want bonuses, they want things to do. That's one of the basic lessons for a homebrewer. :smallsigh:

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright guys, thanks for your patience.

The Spells post has been updated with my take on all pf the various Wu Jen-unique spells, along with a few arcane-unique versions of spells (Plant Growth, Fire Seeds, Surelife, etc...).

Feel free to comment to your heart's content.

[Endarire]

1: The lesser spirit binding link is broken.
2: Spellguard of Silverymoon is how to kill anything with an immediate action followed by a standard action.

[sonofzeal]

Alright guys, thanks for your patience.

The Spells post has been updated with my take on all pf the various Wu Jen-unique spells, along with a few arcane-unique versions of spells (Plant Growth, Fire Seeds, Surelife, etc...).

Feel free to comment to your heart's content.
Huzzah! Much appreciated!

I don't suppose you can colorcode or put some other ranking system in place?

[Kuulvheysoon]

1: The lesser spirit binding link is broken.
2: Spellguard of Silverymoon is how to kill anything with an immediate action followed by a standard action.

Trying to repair the link, but I have no idea what's wrong. And I'm assuming that Spellguard (of Silverymoon) is a prospective Prestige Class for me to look into?


Huzzah! Much appreciated!

I don't suppose you can colorcode or put some other ranking system in place?

...You know, I totally meant to do that, but I was just so thrilled to finally be done. I'll go ahead and code them now.

[Madara]

On page 95 of Complete Arcane, there is a sidebar about spells from Oriental Adventures. It states that you may add the updated versions of any spells that appear there to the Wu Jen spell list. Here's the single spell that this ruling applies to:

Surelife (8th)



That made me laugh. Silly WotC, you should think these things through. Its almost as bad as what they did with the SpC...:smallannoyed:

[Kuulvheysoon]

That made me laugh. Silly WotC, you should think these things through. Its almost as bad as what they did with the SpC...:smallannoyed:

Well, in their defense the list was a lot longer... until I realised that during the 3.0/3.5 change-over quite a number of spells changed spell levels and/or names.

Color coding of spells is complete! Comments are always appreciated, as is anyone's opinion on a specific spell.

[eggs]

Apparition's great if you can get multiple iterations out at once (Imbued Summoning, Obtain Familiar, War Weaver levels, whatever) - it's like Fear, but 2 levels lower, with no area or range limits and a specific exclusion of the caster's allies. Fear's already a decent use of a level 4 spell slot, so getting it from a level 2 spell is nifty.

I hadn't realized that Lesser Spirit Binding both had a higher HD cap than the Planar version and a lower spell level. Even without the Outsider bindings, that's insane.

[Madara]

Apparition's great if you can get multiple iterations out at once (Imbued Summoning, Obtain Familiar, War Weaver levels, whatever) - it's like Fear, but 2 levels lower, with no area or range limits and a specific exclusion of the caster's allies. Fear's already a decent use of a level 4 spell slot, so getting it from a level 2 spell is nifty.

I hadn't realized that Lesser Spirit Binding both had a higher HD cap than the Planar version and a lower spell level. Even without the Outsider bindings, that's insane.

The problem is, without outsiders you can't get all the fun spellcasting shenanigans.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The problem is, without outsiders you can't get all the fun spellcasting shenanigans.

That's not quite true - some of the spirit creatures from OA have spellcasting, and the Weirds get spellcasting as well. It's the SLAs that you're really missing out on.

[eggs]

The problem is, without outsiders you can't get all the fun spellcasting shenanigans.
Don't underestimate it.

Lesser Spirit Binding is a 4th level spell that, for days at a time, can summon:
7th level Druids (Nymph)
7th level Bards (Gloura)
6th level Wizard/Cleric gestalts (Banelar Naga)
7th level Sorcerers (Rakshasa and Water Naga)

And creatures that can access all Elemental Wu Jen spells (Large Nature Spirit) or almost any SLA you could want.

Plus whatever fey or incorporeal undead happen to have 8 or fewer class levels.

There are plenty of shenanigans to be had.

[Starbuck_II]

You're referring to Scales of the Lizard, correct? It is similar to Barkskin, except for one major difference: duration. While Barkskin is hour/level, SotL is 1 minute. Not a minute per level, one minute flat. That, and it scales quite a bit slower than Barkskin.

Also, Shield is on the Wu Jen spellist.

But as it increases NA you can make NA boosting magic items. It was what my (Metal) Wu Jen did (that and GMW with a +2 caster boost from Metal).

[Piggy Knowles]

If I were building a Wu Jen, I'd probably either build a metal defensive gish, or an earth controller type.

I only wish that the scarf spells were better - they have some of my favorite flavor of any spells around, especially Entangling Scarf, but in play it's always kind of meh. I can pretty much always come up with a more useful way to spend a second level spell slot...

[Madara]

Ghost Light: A 30’ radius Will save vs. fear. The spectral light can be reshaped to your desire, and it lasts concentration (no maximum upper limit on duration!). Also functions as a torch.

I think Ghost light should be blue. The fact that it has a long duration(unlimited concentration), medium range, and it moves 30ft. a turn allows for some fun with fear effects.

[Kuulvheysoon]

But as it increases NA you can make NA boosting magic items. It was what my (Metal) Wu Jen did (that and GMW with a +2 caster boost from Metal).

But that involves custom item generation, and I really don't want to open up that can of potentially lethal worms. An excellent point, however.


If I were building a Wu Jen, I'd probably either build a metal defensive gish, or an earth controller type.

I only wish that the scarf spells were better - they have some of my favorite flavor of any spells around, especially Entangling Scarf, but in play it's always kind of meh. I can pretty much always come up with a more useful way to spend a second level spell slot...

I love the scarf spells as well. My Wu Jen right now (4th level, liking aiming to gish) is using mainly the metal spells in my low-mid op group. But why do you specify defensive metal? the only really defensive spell that they get is Metal skin.


I think Ghost light should be blue. The fact that it has a long duration(unlimited concentration), medium range, and it moves 30ft. a turn allows for some fun with fear effects.

Changing now. Also adding a random Wu Jen (unique!) spell that I found in Dragon Magic (Channel the Dragon, 7th level). Although the spell is more than slightly terrible, I'm loving this book more and more, simply for it's huge amount of support for other books.

[AntiMugen]

Thank you so much for this, what element would you recommend specializing in? I'm probably going to choose metal or air, but want you opinion.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well, it really depends on what your plans are for the future. Do you intend on gishing, or buffing, etc...

I'm still working on this, for those curious; I have a ton of stuff written down, just haven't really had the time to sit down and type it all up.

[ZamielVanWeber]

When I posted the question of Arboreal Transformation to the Q&A thread, the answer I got was that the slow was 1 round/level, not 1 day/level.

Edit: It was a separate thread here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273398)

Also Wu Jen is the only tier 1 caster I truly love playing: those unique spells are hilarious (and Wu Jen get a LOT of death spells. Just beware Nerra...)

[Vaz]

I may well have been incorrect there. The qualifier "when the spell expires refers to the Arboreal Transformation" spell; that may well mean day/level.

However, feel free to use whatever's most agreeable to your gaming group. For a 9th level spell, a day/level no save slow is hardly the most dangerous thing so knock yourself out.