I want to make General Grievous.

[Snowbluff]

Starting at the bottom with Thri-kreen. I'll fight with 4 weapons, hopefully lightsabers of some kind, and some blasters. Hopefully lasers. Of some kind.

If you're wondering why it's cuz I've read Darth and Droid, and the VGcats comic, and saw the miniseries. Also, he looks really cool in Ep3 despite his disappointing defeat. (Seriously, WTH?)

[Fyermind]

Is this for play, is this a build challenge, or a NPC?

As a build challenge (or NPC) I'd go with the Half golem template from MMII. As far as items, I'd try to get brilliant energy (DMG) Collapsable (RotW) swords and crossbows that fire scorching ray (a la magic ballistas from HoB).

[TheGeckoKing]

If I remember, you can buy the Half-Golem template, rather than take it via LA. That might work for you.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If I remember, you can buy the Half-Golem template, rather than take it via LA. That might work for you.

I don't believe that there's a price for it (there's a price for golem grafts, however.

And you can't even suck on the level adjustment - it's LA: -

[TheGeckoKing]

I don't believe that there's a price for it (there's a price for golem grafts, however.

And you can't even suck on the level adjustment - it's LA: -

Meh. You still gain all the stuff. The book says that "A character who succeeds at all the saves required to make takes on the attributes of a half-golem as described below."

[Snowbluff]

Is this for play, is this a build challenge, or a NPC?

As a build challenge (or NPC) I'd go with the Half golem template from MMII. As far as items, I'd try to get brilliant energy (DMG) Collapsable (RotW) swords and crossbows that fire scorching ray (a la magic ballistas from HoB).

Hmm good idea.


If I remember, you can buy the Half-Golem template, rather than take it via LA. That might work for you.

MM2 has grafts? Taking a crap-ton of grafts is a must for this built. Also, I need to develop a cough.

[Larkas]

Why did Grievous have to be a cybernetics-enhanced humanoid? If he were merely an android, you'd have a perfectly good excuse to cast Awaken Construct on an Effigy Thri-Kreen :smallfrown:

[Jarian]

Thri-kreen, Half-Golem template, brilliant energy weapons?

That should be pretty damn close...

[Snowbluff]

Why did Grievous have to be a cybernetics-enhanced humanoid? If he were merely an android, you'd have a perfectly good excuse to cast Awaken Construct on an Effigy Thri-Kreen :smallfrown:

I'm talking to my DM about allowing Effigy.


Thri-kreen, Half-Golem template, brilliant energy weapons?

That should be pretty damn close...

Brilliant Energy is expensive and has some serious shortcomings.

My buddy okayed half-golem, after seeing how terribad it can be.

[Larkas]

I'm talking to my DM about allowing Effigy.

If you can get that, it will be peachy :smallsmile:

On the class, I think Warblade is a perfect fit. Grievous is a mundane warrior, but can do some wicked stuff. Swordsage is too supernatural (read "Jedi"), and Crusader, and its maneuvers, simply don't fit the flavor. And don't forget that a Thri-Kreen's RHD count as half-initiator levels, so that's a plus.

[vhfforever]

Weren't Wands of Flame Blade (max CL) the general 'go to' for Lightsabers a while back?

[navar100]

You can start with warforged and use house feats for more arms.

If you use Pathfinder, Grievous could be someone's Eidolon, easily.

[Jarian]

Brilliant Energy is expensive and has some serious shortcomings.

That's why you use spells to apply it to all your weapons for no cost, silly. Spell Compendium has a mass-brilliant-energy spell somewhere, I'm certain. Brilliant Aura, I want to say?

[Snowbluff]

That's why you use spells to apply it to all your weapons for no cost, silly. Spell Compendium has a mass-brilliant-energy spell somewhere, I'm certain. Brilliant Aura, I want to say?

Thanks. With you around I don't have to act competent anymore. :smallbiggrin:


You can start with warforged and use house feats for more arms.


I could get the Insectile template from SS, but it puts me 2 arms over and I'd need Incarnate construct.... blegh... these sort of shenanigans get books thrown at me.


Weren't Wands of Flame Blade (max CL) the general 'go to' for Lightsabers a while back?

Hmmm... Loss of my Str mod is tough, and it takes an action to cast. I'll dig through some artifacts to see if I can find suitable weapons.

Also, grafts. i need all of them. Grafts are the Candy Red flavorful way to do this.

[Zonugal]

That's why you use spells to apply it to all your weapons for no cost, silly. Spell Compendium has a mass-brilliant-energy spell somewhere, I'm certain. Brilliant Aura, I want to say?

The problem with Brilliant Energy is it doesn't affect ignores nonliving matter. As a result it won't damage undead, constructs or objects.

That makes it a pretty poor lightsaber...

What about something like this?


Basic Model Lightsaber ($11,350 gp or $2,769 with a dedicated Lightsaber crafter)
Sunsword with the Sonic, Focus and Deflecting enchantments with a Lesser Crystal of Return coupled with a Glove of the Master Strategist.
A +1, Masterwork Bastard Sword (treated as a Short Sword whenever advantageous) which does a extra 1d4 points of sonic damage on a successful hit and bestows a +4 insight bonus to the wielder's Iaijutsu focus checks while carrying the weapon, even if the weapon is sheathed. The lightsaber may be drawn as a free action and you may call it to your hand from 30ft away as a move action. In addition you can try to knock projectiles aimed at you out of the air. Once per round when you would normally be hit by a ranged weapon, you may make a DC 20 Reflex saving throw (if the ranged weapon has a magical enhancement bonus, the DC increases by that amount). If you succeed, the ranged weapon or projectile deflects away harmlessly. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Intrinsically connected to the Lightsaber is the mystical handling glove which allows you to store and retrieve held items into the glove as free actions as well as activate True Strike 1/day.

With a dedicated lightsaber crafter we can knock that price from $11,350 to
$2,769 by using the Extraordinary Artisan, Magical Artisan (Craft Arms & Armor), Apprentice (Craftsman) and Blazing Forge planar touchstone feats in addition to restricting it to only those with a rank in Knowledge (Religion) and those of the Ardent Class (I'm just selecting for all practical intentions).

$7,750 gp / 50% (3,875 gp) = 3,875 gp / 30% (1,162 gp) = 2, 713 gp / 25% (678 gp) = 2,035 gp / 25% (508 gp) = 1,527 gp / 10% (152 gp) = 1,375 gp / 10% (137 gp) = 1,238 gp

$3,600 gp / 30% (1,080 gp) = 2,520 gp / 25% (630 gp) = 1,890 gp /10% (189 gp) = 1,701 gp /10% (170 gp) = 1,531 gp

It isn't an exact replica but I think it serves as a nice replacement.

Following that, what about this for a build?

Thri-Keen Racial 2/ Ranger 1/ Warblade 4/Dervish 10

Also, take a look at the warforged grafts in Faiths of Eberron.

[Snowbluff]

It isn't an exact replica but I think it serves as a nice replacement.

Following that, what about this for a build?

Thri-Keen Racial 2/ Ranger 1/ Warblade 4/Dervish 10

Also, take a look at the warforged grafts in Faiths of Eberron.

Nice 'saber bro. The gloves are nice.

Anyway, why Dervish? Diamond Mind's 9th is essentially the capstone for Dervish I can use over and over. Dervish Dance only makes it so I can't use my Diamond Mind counters, for something I should be able to do anyway. Warblade seems straight up better.

Also, the Warforged Construct Grafts are great, and they they cover all the bases. My only problem is that they largely aren't functional. Mighty arms, for example, seems like it would be doing nothing. Is there a place wit hmore fo these?

[Larkas]

Well, you COULD use d20 Future's Beam Sword. These are the relevant stats:

Damage: 2d8 / Critical: 19-20 / Damage Type: Fire / Range Increment: - / Size: Medium / Weight: 1 lb.

It is basically a light saber, but the beam is made of plasma. It is, of course, a bit over the top, but may serve as guideline for brewing what you want. For instance: Make it so it needs EWP (duh), reduce the damage to 1d10 (2d8 is, in D&D, the damage of a fullblade, the "large bastard sword", so this reduction makes sense) and change the damage type to [Force] (this is actually an upgrade, too many things are immune to fire in D&D). Another option would be to reduce the damage to 2d6 and change the damage type to half [Fire], half [Force]. Anyways, you got the idea. You could also check Star Wars d20, but as I don't have the books, I can't help you with that.

...Ehm, a light saber doing force damage was an unintended pun :smallbiggrin:

[Toy Killer]

If i'm not mistaken, there is a Dungeon magazine with a Half-Machine template...

[Zonugal]

Nice 'saber bro. The gloves are nice.

Thanks!


Anyway, why Dervish? Diamond Mind's 9th is essentially the capstone for Dervish I can use over and over. Dervish Dance only makes it so I can't use my Diamond Mind counters, for something I should be able to do anyway. Warblade seems straight up better.

Warblade may be a better choice, I just suggested Dervish as it was what first came to mind for the high amount of attacks Grievous throws out. By the way, what level (ECL) are you looking to put this guy at?


Also, the Warforged Construct Grafts are great, and they they cover all the bases. My only problem is that they largely aren't functional. Mighty arms, for example, seems like it would be doing nothing. Is there a place wit hmore fo these?

Sadly Faiths of Eberron is the only spot.

[kardar233]

You could also check Star Wars d20, but as I don't have the books, I can't help you with that.

Star Wars d20 has a lightsaber doing 2d8 untyped energy damage with a 19-20 crit range and ignore Hardness. Though seeing as this is the system that has blaster pistols doing 3d6 (not even Han's badass one, that does 3d8) the numbers might need to be adjusted.

[Mithril Leaf]

Dungeon Magazine Issue136 p61: Obah-Blessed
Stick it on a warforged. +2 LA and you get your base creature. No Racial Hit Dice. Very crisp, very clean, 4 armed android character.

[Snowbluff]

Well, you COULD use d20 Future's Beam Sword. These are the relevant stats:

Damage: 2d8 / Critical: 19-20 / Damage Type: Fire / Range Increment: - / Size: Medium / Weight: 1 lb.

It is basically a light saber, but the beam is made of plasma. It is, of course, a bit over the top, but may serve as guideline for brewing what you want. For instance: Make it so it needs EWP (duh), reduce the damage to 1d10 (2d8 is, in D&D, the damage of a fullblade, the "large bastard sword", so this reduction makes sense) and change the damage type to [Force] (this is actually an upgrade, too many things are immune to fire in D&D). Another option would be to reduce the damage to 2d6 and change the damage type to half [Fire], half [Force]. Anyways, you got the idea. You could also check Star Wars d20, but as I don't have the books, I can't help you with that.

...Ehm, a light saber doing force damage was an unintended pun :smallbiggrin:

Hehe. Sounds good.

As a side option, I'd like to pick up a lot of mismatched relics and such, to get the "I pick these off people I kill" image.


If i'm not mistaken, there is a Dungeon magazine with a Half-Machine template...

91? Dammit, don't have it.



Warblade may be a better choice, I just suggested Dervish as it was what first came to mind for the high amount of attacks Grievous throws out. By the way, what level (ECL) are you looking to put this guy at?

Sadly Faiths of Eberron is the only spot.

I'm looking at a level 13 character. My last guy got screwed by a Deck of many things, so I'm having her replaced.

[chainlink]

You have a lot of suggestions but another may help. Psychokinetic suits a lightsaber, i'd prefer that to sonic but ymmv. Defending property could also work.

[Zonugal]

Alright, this is what I am looking at for inspiration. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4)

But what about something like:

Thri-Keen Racial 2/Ranger 2/Warblade 8
Str 14, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

Picks up feats like: Power Attack, Leap Attack, Track, Multiweapon Fighting, Knowledge Devotion, Combat Reflexes, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Robilar's Gambit, Improved Favored Enemy or Weapon Finesse.

You class features would be: Arcane Hunter, Track, Wild Empathy, Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Battle Ardor (Critical Confirmation), Battle Cunning (Damage) and up to 5th-level maneuvers/stances.

[Gavinfoxx]

Actually... lightsabers are best statted out as something like:

+# Keen Hideaway Psychokinetic Flaming Shocking Adamantine Longsword

[Snowbluff]

Alright, this is what I am looking at for inspiration. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4)

But what about something like:

Thri-Keen Racial 2/Ranger 2/Warblade 8
Str 14, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8

Picks up feats like: Power Attack, Leap Attack, Track, Multiweapon Fighting, Knowledge Devotion, Combat Reflexes, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Robilar's Gambit, Improved Favored Enemy or Weapon Finesse.

You class features would be: Arcane Hunter, Track, Wild Empathy, Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Battle Ardor (Critical Confirmation), Battle Cunning (Damage) and up to 5th-level maneuvers/stances.

I'm on the fence for Ranger for this build. WB 9 gives another feat that will be relevant for this build, like Ranger, but Also progresses my Maneuvers.

As for the feats, they are dead on. My slots (not bonus feats) Will be Imp, Greater, TWF, Power Attack, Rolibar's Gambit, Lady's Gambit, and Double Hit (Given a favorable ruling for Multiweapon dudes). The gambits represent an "unorthodox strategy", and when combined with Double Hit, make me good at brawling against multiple targets. Combat Reflexes from Warblade, Iron Will from Otyugh Hole, and I think I got a bonus feat free.

As for my templates, I came to a conclusion with a DM. We got a synopsis of Half-Machine, and combined it with some of the penalties from Half-Golem, while cutting down on the abilities granted. It's +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -6 Cha, Gives SR (10+HD), and hives bonuses to saves vs. things constructs are immune to. Also, +8 climb, due to epic claws on my feet. Also, I weigh 500 pounds more per limb replaced, so I weigh over a ton. For epicness.


Actually... lightsabers are best statted out as something like:

+# Keen Hideaway Psychokinetic Flaming Shocking Adamantine Longsword

Wow. Those would break the bank. Remember, I have to have 4 of these.

[Gavinfoxx]

Wow. Those would break the bank. Remember, I have to have 4 of these.

Well, start with +1 adamantine hideaway, and make sure they glow as magic items can, and improve them as you go. In the meantime, get weapon crystals that give them at least one sort of associated energy damage, then.

Also, in the book "Dragon Compendium", there is an alternative to Thri-Kreen for getting four limbs... it's another bug, but I forget what it is called...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Remember to drop a few ranks into Intimidate and if possible get Fearsome armour enhancement (I would also suggest to get imperious command; but without feat shuffling shenanigans* I don't think you have room for it).


Count Dooku: [sees Grievous's lightsaber] Hmm, a new one?
General Grievous: Your training has served me well. It has awarded me many trophies.
Count Dooku: Don't let your pursuit of trinkets cloud your reality. Remember what I taught you, General. If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. But if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory and have your trophy. :smallamused:

*Nothing prevents you from going to the Otyough hole or other wondrous location more than once and then Dark Shuffle it out for other feats.

[Larkas]

Is your DM open to homebrew, Snowbluff? There is a Sublime Way Ranger over at WotC's forums that might fit what you want better than the regular Ranger. It might be worth taking a look :smallsmile:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Sublime Way ranger for the lazy ones (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074) (One of my favourite pieces of homebrew and one I have bookmarked)

Quick overview, delays FE to level 6, bonus feats instead of Combat style (you can get the combat style feats or the tactical feats and the pre-reqs, so Iron Hear Aura and Stormguard Warrior for example) and finally gets maneuver and stances as a Warblade with access to Shadow Blade, Tiger Claw and Falling Star (range based discipline); but you can switch one of them for Desert Wind, White Raven, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart or Devoted Spirit

[Snowbluff]

Well, start with +1 adamantine hideaway, and make sure they glow as magic items can, and improve them as you go. In the meantime, get weapon crystals that give them at least one sort of associated energy damage, then.

Also, in the book "Dragon Compendium", there is an alternative to Thri-Kreen for getting four limbs... it's another bug, but I forget what it is called...

The Diopsid. They aren't a very good choice. A penalty to Dex, which is rather ironic, since the only thing they are good for is Multiweapon Fighting. Well, they ignore the Dex requirements, but they actually just suck at it.

Besides, Monstrous Humanoid HD aren't that bad. Full BaB and good Will. And reflex. Not that anyone cares about reflex.


Remember to drop a few ranks into Intimidate and if possible get Fearsome armour enhancement (I would also suggest to get imperious command; but without feat shuffling shenanigans* I don't think you have room for it).
:smallamused:

*Nothing prevents you from going to the Otyough hole or other wondrous location more than once and then Dark Shuffle it out for other feats.

Yikes. I wish. I have a 10 penalty to Cha between Thri-Kreen and the template I am using.


Is your DM open to homebrew, Snowbluff? There is a Sublime Way Ranger over at WotC's forums that might fit what you want better than the regular Ranger. It might be worth taking a look :smallsmile:


Sublime Way ranger for the lazy ones (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074) (One of my favourite pieces of homebrew and one I have bookmarked)

Quick overview, delays FE to level 6, bonus feats instead of Combat style (you can get the combat style feats or the tactical feats and the pre-reqs, so Iron Hear Aura and Stormguard Warrior for example) and finally gets maneuver and stances as a Warblade with access to Shadow Blade, Tiger Claw and Falling Star (range based discipline); but you can switch one of them for Desert Wind, White Raven, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart or Devoted Spirit

Hmm... interesting. Honestly, I'd prefer to stick to Warblade. I'll check over my feats again and see what I can do about making myself scarier, regardless.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well there is always getting a few items of intimidate... perhaps mask slot (Really Grievous faceplate is downright scary )to offset the cha penalty. Or perhaps convincing your DM to key Intimidate off another stat?

[Andorax]

Dungeon Magazine Issue136 p61: Obah-Blessed
Stick it on a warforged. +2 LA and you get your base creature. No Racial Hit Dice. Very crisp, very clean, 4 armed android character.

This. Plus Psychic Warrior (with a careful selection of powers). Then call it a day with whichever variation of lightsabers (several good ones suggested) and blasters (Dorje of Energy Ray, perhaps with a psionic variation on dual wand wielder?) and you should be good to go.

[Zonugal]

I'm on the fence for Ranger for this build. WB 9 gives another feat that will be relevant for this build, like Ranger, but Also progresses my Maneuvers.

If you feel the build can be enhanced via more Warblade levels instead of Ranger that is totally okay.

I merely suggested Ranger for these reasons:
* You can switch out Favored Enemy for Arcane Hunter which means (within a flavor/theatrical sense) you are skilled at hunting down Jedi-like opponents. In addition if you pick up Improved Favored Enemy you are looking at 5 points of damage on every attack towards your specific foe (which for how many attacks you'll be dishing out is rather nice).
* The skills and the free track feat from Ranger are fairly nice and I think the levels themselves help in supplying the hunter background Grievous started out as before beginning his intense swordplay training/career.
* At 2nd level you can pick up, instead of Two-Weapon Fighting, Multiweapon Fighting which will save you a feat.
* With the two levels, in addition to your two racial hit-die, you start your Warblade progression at IL 3 which is going to be nicer in the long run.

So, those are the reasons as to the slight dip into Ranger.


This. Plus Psychic Warrior (with a careful selection of powers). Then call it a day with whichever variation of lightsabers (several good ones suggested) and blasters (Dorje of Energy Ray, perhaps with a psionic variation on dual wand wielder?) and you should be good to go.

That sort of negates the whole point of Grievous, doesn't it?

[Gavinfoxx]

Isn't there a way to trade out your animal companion as a ranger for +to hit and damage against favored enemies? In a Dragon Magazine somewhere? So you are extra skilled at hunting Jedi...

[kardar233]

Count Dooku: [sees Grievous's lightsaber] Hmm, a new one?
General Grievous: Your training has served me well. It has awarded me many trophies.
Count Dooku: Don't let your pursuit of trinkets cloud your reality. Remember what I taught you, General. If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. But if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory and have your trophy.

"Against the Jedi, our chief weapon is fear. Fear and surprise, surprise and fear.... Two chief weapons: Fear, surprise and intimidation.... Three chief weapons- I'll come in again."

[Snowbluff]

If you feel the build can be enhanced via more Warblade levels instead of Ranger that is totally okay.

I merely suggested Ranger for these reasons:
* You can switch out Favored Enemy for Arcane Hunter which means (within a flavor/theatrical sense) you are skilled at hunting down Jedi-like opponents. In addition if you pick up Improved Favored Enemy you are looking at 5 points of damage on every attack towards your specific foe (which for how many attacks you'll be dishing out is rather nice).
* The skills and the free track feat from Ranger are fairly nice and I think the levels themselves help in supplying the hunter background Grievous started out as before beginning his intense swordplay training/career.
* At 2nd level you can pick up, instead of Two-Weapon Fighting, Multiweapon Fighting which will save you a feat.
* With the two levels, in addition to your two racial hit-die, you start your Warblade progression at IL 3 which is going to be nicer in the long run.

So, those are the reasons as to the slight dip into Ranger.



Yeah, I saw that. Just doesn't work out so well in practice.


"Against the Jedi, our chief weapon is fear. Fear and surprise, surprise and fear.... Two chief weapons: Fear, surprise and intimidation.... Three chief weapons- I'll come in again."

No one expects the Sith Imposition!