Help spicing up my barbarian encounter

[Jacque]

Hey all,

I'm running Paizo's Rise of the Runelords adventure path for my group of players. The group is quite optimized so they cut through the encounters with minimal opposition.

The current adventure has ogres as the main type of enemies. I have switched out the ogres with fighter levels to ogres with warblade levels (Iron Heart and Stone Dragon maneuvers and stances only as it fits best with the brute strength), and I now have the task of statting up an ogre with 7 levels (originally 7 barbarian levels).

I initially gave him barbarian 1, fighter 4 and crusader 3 and let the encounter center around his Thicket of Blades stance. He deals loads of damage and I wanted the unique edge of the encounter to be the players assesment of taking the aoo when approaching him, or instead try a kiting or ranged tactic instead.

My trouble here is that I don't really feel that Thicket of Blades and a raging barbarian harmonizes fluff-wise. I imagine Thicket of Blades to be a very specialised combat stance which requires wits and awareness while raging is all about smashing.

Does anyone have an idea as to how else I could build him and still make it something more than a tank and spank encounter? The previous encounters already features Stone Dragon maneuvers, terrain and lesser mooks so I would prefer not to use the same tricks again so soon.

The party consists of 5x level 6 characters.

Edit: I have also searched for homebrew disciplines but I didn't find any which are similar to Stone Dragon as in they rely more on brute strength than combat techniques, skill and finesse.

[Azernak0]

Well, Lion Totem + Knockdown + Spiked Chain would let you get an attack of opportunity with your range, knockdown gives a free trip if you do 10 damage, and depending how you rule Improved Trip, you would get another attack. Thicket of Blades is pretty nasty with it too.

[Waker]

As always, you can refluff the techniques however you want. While you might say that Thicket of Blades is about awareness and tactics, you could also argue that it's strictly about reflexes and strike down moving prey.

[Essence_of_War]

Ogre Fighter 6 (dungeon crasher ACF)/ Warblade 1 (Take like, Emerald Razor, Minotaur Charge, and Moment of Perfect Mind)

Feats:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Imp. BR
5 F1 - Knock-back
6 - Shape Soulmeld: Mauling Gauntlets
6 F2/ACF 1
8 F4 - Combat Reflexes
9 - Bonus Essentia
10 F6/ACF 2

Smash your players into things. Hard. Do it again. Full Power Attack his Emerald Razors. Use Minotaur Charge. Have them afraid to meet the gaze of an ogre ever again. And when they try to glitterdust him, MoPM and get back into the fray.

[Jacque]

My current idea is to refluff Thicket of Blades to be described as him swinging his Ogre Hook wildly in the air and approaching him most likely means smashing into his Hook.

Thicket of Blades, as opposed to the usual spiked chain and reach, has the advantage that it also hits the tumbling scout.

I am not looking for a way to kill the players. If I wanted, then I could easily get him to kill a player on the first round, but this exactly just makes him a tank and spank encounter, where the only contest is my damage vs. the healer's healing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

My trouble here is that I don't really feel that Thicket of Blades and a raging barbarian harmonizes fluff-wise. I imagine Thicket of Blades to be a very specialised combat stance which requires wits and awareness while raging is all about smashing.

Switch Rage for Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) and flavor Thicket of Blades as him thrashing so recklessly that anyone who even gets close is going to get hit. Be sure to throw on Extend Rage via the Otyugh Hole about 4 times so they can't just wait him out.

[Cespenar]

I would second the Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warblade 1 idea as well. With an ogre's strength, it could be pretty fun as he smacks the players into each other or across walls.

[Jacque]

I'm not so fond of the idea of dealing more damage, but I do enjoy the idea of smacking the PCs around, into each other or the walls and knocking them prone. I think I will build him based around this.

[Essence_of_War]

If you don't like the extra damage, just build him to bullrush but not necessarily to dungeoncrash.

Don't take the ACF, and instead take like Combat Expertise + Improved Trip + Knockdown (cutting another feat you don't like). Now every time he hits for at least 10, he bullrushes AND trips for free, and if he successfully trips he gets an extra attack. Send them flying away from you prone. Hope that they don't cross through any other ogre's threatened area :smallsmile:

Edit:

Something like this:
Ogre 1-4/ Wolf totem barbarian 2/Fighter 4/ Warblade 1

1 - Power Attack
3 - Shape Soulmeld: Mauling Gauntlets
6 - Bonus Essentia
6 bbn2 - imp trip
7 f1 - Knockdown
8 f2 - Combat Reflexes
9 - Imp. BR
10 f4 -Knockback

[Jacque]

I've taken the MM ogre and added classes, so he only has an intelligence of 6. I've even had to add gloves of dex +2 so he could get combat reflexes.

So far, I've changed him into a dungeoncrasher + shock trooper but without using the +PA -AC ability. The two other abilities looks like fun though. I only gave him 4 fighter levels so the dungeoncrasher would only deal the 4d6 + str.

I has Charging Minotaur of course, but I also gave him steel wind for that double knockback with one blow (love the visual on that one!). Other than that I gave him the Iron Heart Surge to defend against SoS spells, and Wall of Blades against any lucky crits.

I think this will be a tough but manageable encounter for them.

[Essence_of_War]

I would strongly recommend Moment of Perfect Mind if you can swing it.

Most players (and any character with knowledge ranks) know, or can figure out, that ogres are pretty dumb and typically have bad will saves. Being able to fend off at least 1 will-save-or-suck/die/end encounter seems like a very good idea.

[SSGoW]

I would strongly recommend Moment of Perfect Mind if you can swing it.

Most players (and any character with knowledge ranks) know, or can figure out, that ogres are pretty dumb and typically have bad will saves. Being able to fend off at least 1 will-save-or-suck/die/end encounter seems like a very good idea.

Just 1? With a +5 or +10 item (warblade refreshes anytime he makes 1 attack or full attack) he should be pretty much golden versus SoS spells or SoD spells unless the party rapid fires them in one round. Though if he shakes off the first one most parties would think he has a
Item of immunity (I always roll a die just so they don't know if monsters are immune or not...).... Silly players :D

Give him an item of Bluff too so that when you roll for a domination effect he can *act* dominated and when the party is all adjacent ... He can wig out and knock them all down. I love Bo9S because it gives the BSF a defense against being dominated (and many other spells... Yay iron heart surge.

[PinkysBrain]

When in doubt use the Frenzied Berserker ... always a barrel of laughs.

Use that feat which gives him con to saves to make cheap shots a little less likely, and maybe a well hidden counterspeller to give him some protection. Trying to tank and spank a FB is going to end in tears.

[Jacque]

The group only has a bard and a buffing Archivist for spellcasters, so I don't really fear SoS spells that much. They only have Grease as far as I know - which of course is devastating enough as his saves are Fort +19, Ref +4, Will +1. They might grease his Ogre Hook :(

[PinkysBrain]

You could give him a couple of ring of counterspells with grease in them.

[Andorax]

Keep in mind that, to a certain extent, he is SUPPOSED to be a bruiser. Ogres in Golarion are presented as slack-witted, disturbed, depraved killing and eating machines. While I certainly have nothing against making the encounter more interesting, be sure you're doing so in a way that keep the ogres skull-dancing degenerates.

I'm assuming you're talking about Jaagrath Kreeg?

Shuffle skills a bit. Throw Intimidating Rage into the mix. Large and In Charge isn't a bad call either for some area control.

When there are at least two PCs in the room, bull rush the second one out the door and slam it shut, planting a big, meaty foot in front of it. Next round, spend a round slamming a bar down in place so he can have "play time" with the now lone and isolated PC.

If you want to work Tome of Battle into the mix, consider throwing Bloodstorm Blade into the mix. Hurl that big ogre hook at the healer in the back. Grab any of the various gory bits dangling about the room and turn them into lethal missiles. Getting impaled by a deer-headed human body is gonna leave an impression.

If you make the encounter sufficiently descriptive, terrifying and/or disgusting, the PCs will never even notice that tactically, it was a tank and spank. The encounter will still be memorable.

[Jacque]

That is some very fine points, Andorax, and I agree totally. It is for the same reasons I only give them the Stone Dragon and Iron Heart disciplines as they seem mainly to rely on brute force fluff-wise.

I initially gave him imtimidating rage and considered Large and in Charge (that feat is awesome), but I really feel the bullrush - knockback is just as true to the nature of the ogres.

And it is indeed Jaagrath Kreeg I am trying to work with.

I will look into the Bloodstorm Blade. I initially skipped it as I didn't want him to throw away his large +1 human bane ogre hook, but you are absolutely right that he could always throw some of the taxidermed stuff surrounding him.