Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

[hushblade]

Got a little silly with the title, but the question is: Is there a template(LA1) that simply makes you a stronger version of your base race? In the same vain as evolved undead. Basically a go-to template when you have a low LA race in mind and your DM is handing out free LA to start.

Homebrew isn't out of the question

[kharmakazy]

My go to template is mineral warrior. Not exactly what you are talking about, but it gets the job done.

I mean its LA+1 for a burrow speed, DR 8/adamantine, NA +3, and some stat adjustments that equal out to 0.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's really nothing like what you're talking about. Evolved Undead is specific to a single narrow category, but it's probably the broadest one you'll find.

For good +1 LA templates, there's Draconic from Draconomicon, Lolth-Touched in MMIV, Quasi-Lycanthorope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a), or one level of any half-race progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp), maybe Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313), Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), Feral in Savage Species, etc.

You should be more specific about what race/class/etc. you plan on playing, there's sure to be at least one +1 LA template that can improve on it.

[CTrees]

Pathfinder's Advanced template is +1LA for +2NA and +4 to all stats, no penalties.

Not entirely balanced with 3.5 templates but... there you go.

[Slipperychicken]

Seconded Half-Minotaur if you're going for "bigger, harder, faster, stronger". Maybe get rid of the Gore if it wouldn't be thematically appropriate. Otherwise, it's +12 str (if base is medium), +4 Con (IIRC), -2 Int, -2 Dex, NA, +10 all speeds, and some other goodies.

[Theroc]

Pathfinder's Advanced template is +1LA for +2NA and +4 to all stats, no penalties.

Not entirely balanced with 3.5 templates but... there you go.

I did not think Pathfinder had LA at all. That would have made things TREMENDOUSLY easier for me since my friend wanted to Co-DM a PF game with me... which allowed all D&D 3.5 stuff as well... which meant I had to... pathfinderize everything without using LA.

Complicated.

Anyway, are you certain the advanced template wasn't +1 CR rather than LA?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I did not think Pathfinder had LA at all. That would have made things TREMENDOUSLY easier for me since my friend wanted to Co-DM a PF game with me... which allowed all D&D 3.5 stuff as well... which meant I had to... pathfinderize everything without using LA.

Complicated.

Anyway, are you certain the advanced template wasn't +1 CR rather than LA?

I believe that, for all intents and purposes, +CR is +LA in PF. I think it makes stuff more balanced actually. This template might actually be roughly balanced with goliath for noncasters, given that goliaths provide +s for attack, damage, and combat maneuvers across the board. For casters this is a little insane, but you're already eating up the +CR for lich or vampire.

[FaradayCage]

Dragon Magazine #319 has the 3.5 Dark Sun Player's Handbook.

Inside, there are versions of Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling that are all +1 LA. The stats more-or-less follow the same lines as PHB, but the flavor is changed and they all have an innate psionic ability (and 3 power points) and some other stuff (Elves move faster, for example).

[Zonugal]

What about Saint?

[Psyren]

What about Saint?

Saint is +2 IIRC. The OP wanted +1.

[Cespenar]

You could fluff Goliath as Human+, in a physical sense, at least.

[Siosilvar]

Saint is +2 IIRC. The OP wanted +1.

Yes, Saint is +2. But while we're suggesting things that have too much LA...

The only thing I can think of is Paragon Creature. Of course, it's +15 CR and no listed LA, but that's not an issue, right? :smalltongue:

Actually, speaking of Paragon things, UA has a couple of three-level paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) that you could take a level of. It's not LA or a template, but it does make you better at what your race does.

[sonofzeal]

I believe that, for all intents and purposes, +CR is +LA in PF. I think it makes stuff more balanced actually. This template might actually be roughly balanced with goliath for noncasters, given that goliaths provide +s for attack, damage, and combat maneuvers across the board. For casters this is a little insane, but you're already eating up the +CR for lich or vampire.
Highly disagreed. Remember that while an LA+1 race is self-contained, an LA+1 template is stacking its benefits on top of the LA+0 base race, so you're looking at +2 and +4 all stats on top of a Human's free skill points, free feat, and free floating +2 (since this is PF).

I don't think any LA+1 race in the book comes even remotely close to matching that for sheer pwnage. I'd call that severely overpowered in nearly all cases.

[CTrees]

I believe that, for all intents and purposes, +CR is +LA in PF.

This is what I was going with. Haven't gotten the Advanced Race Guide yet, but...


Highly disagreed. Remember that while an LA+1 race is self-contained, an LA+1 template is stacking its benefits on top of the LA+0 base race, so you're looking at +2 and +4 all stats on top of a Human's free skill points, free feat, and free floating +2 (since this is PF).

I don't think any LA+1 race in the book comes even remotely close to matching that for sheer pwnage. I'd call that severely overpowered in nearly all cases.

This. PF's basic CR/LA system is nice and simple, but it leads to some horrible imbalances. Classic example: I'm making a human wizard. Think he'll take the Young and Advanced templates, which add up to +0 CR, small size, +8 Dex and +4 to all mental stats. That's balanced, right? The Giant template, similiarly, is probably well worth one level for a melee class. Skeletal Champion is straight broken for a PC if you consider how the CR should be calculated, how virtually nothing is lost, and the CR=ECL rule (suffice to say, at level nine you could play a skeletal champion wizard 18*).

In my PF games, I actually ban most templates from player use (there are a few, like half-dragon, with which I have no problem), and I've discovered the hard way that the PF CR system for monsters with class levels is a very hazy guideline. Still, basic templates for enemies works out alright.

~~~~~~~~~

*to explain the skeletal champion:

Skeletal Champion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeletal-champion-CR-1) loses nothing of the base creature except anything requiring flesh, and some changes to racial hit dice. In return, it gains 2HD of undead, Damage- and Channel-Resistance, Immunity to Cold, +2Str, +2Dex, Con -, Natural Armor, undead immunities, and Improved Initiative. Even if it was all this for the cost of one level, it'd be really worth considering (given that the +1 CR includes two hit dice at no cost, as PF doesn't factor RHD into ECL).

However! What the Skeletal Champion CR section actually says is "A skeletal champion's CR is +1 higher than a normal skeleton with the same HD." So, take a human wizard 18 and add Skeletal Champion. He now has 20HD. What's the CR of a 20HD Skeleton? Eight. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeleton) Meaning our champion is a CR 9. This would be ridiculously unbalanced brutality as an enemy. For a PC? Well, PF rules tell us this should be equivalent to a level nine PC in a normal party. Yeah.

Zombie Lord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/zombie-lord) is actually worse, also losing nothing in return for gaining a lot and having CR based on HD. Our example wizard drops to ECL 8.

[Larkas]

One thing that works for me is applying the Planetouched races on top of base races as if they were templates. It works quite alright.