[3.5] Psicrystal Attack Ruling

[Crasical]

An 8th level psion with 13 dex manifests Crystal Shard. Assuming they have no feats or items to boost their to-hit, their rolls is 1d20 + 4 [BAB] + 1 [Dex].

However, if this Psion has a Psicrystal, they can use the 'Deliver Touch Power (su)' ability of the psycrystal to have their psicrystal deliver the attack for them. Because they use the medium BAB track instead of the poor track, a level 8 psicrystal with one of it's level-up stat increases placed into dex will roll the attack as 1d20 + 6 [BAB] + 4 [Size] +3 Dex].

Is this correct? Or....

A. Psicrystals use their owners BAB
B. Psicrystals cannot improve their dex bonus as they do not normally have the stat, the self propulsion ability grants them one temporarily.
C. Deliver Touch Power only effects melee touch attacks, not ranged touch attacks


Deliver Touch Powers doesn't actually work as written, because a Psicrystal gets no attacks. Anything that allows a psicrystal to make attacks, even touch attacks, is a houserule.


I shall make a thread later to discuss how it -should- work then. Thank you.

AND THEN THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I DID.

Does it work? If it doesn't work, then why not? Does a Psicrystal not normally having an attack routine preclude them from making attacks at all? How would you rule this in your own games?

[tyckspoon]

Assuming Deliver Touch Power does in fact work (and I'm inclined to think it does- you don't need to violently attack somebody to deliver a touch power, you just.. touch them. As long as a Psicrystal is capable of interacting with material objects, it should be capable of delivering a power), then option C out of your first quoted post is correct- a ranged power that happens to hit with a touch attack is not the same as a Touch power. A Touch power is one with a Range: entry of Touch.

[TuggyNE]

tyckspoon's distinction between ranged touch and melee touch (Range: Touch) is correct and important.

RAW-wise, a psicrystal (possessed of no natural attacks) appears to be non-proficient, which seems to add an absurd penalty to this seemingly straightforward ability.

I wonder if there's some clarification somewhere for this....

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

'Touch powers' are indeed those with a range of touch, the ability Deliver Touch Powers even references the rules on holding the charge for a touch-range spell/power. It is not possible for you to have the Psicrystal deliver a power with a range greater than touch.

Nonproficiency is irrelevant, a Wizard isn't proficient with his unarmed strike but he can deliver touch spells just fine as long as he's not delivering it with a punch. A Psicrystal is small enough that it would have to enter a creature's space to touch it, provoking AoOs.

A Psicrystal has Str and Dex scores for an entire day at a time, and its self-propulsion can be activated at will, so it shouldn't ever not have those ability scores.

A Psycrystal uses its master's base saves, but BAB isn't mentioned. It gets BAB per its Construct HD by default (3/4 as Cleric).

[Snowbluff]

tyckspoon's distinction between ranged touch and melee touch (Range: Touch) is correct and important.

RAW-wise, a psicrystal (possessed of no natural attacks) appears to be non-proficient, which seems to add an absurd penalty to this seemingly straightforward ability.

I wonder if there's some clarification somewhere for this....

Perhaps we cast 'Heroics' to give it Improved Unarmed Strike?

[Urpriest]

"Attacks --" merely means the creature has no frequently employed natural attacks. It does not mean it is unable to attack. Otherwise, Elves would only be able to attack with longswords or longbows.

Anything can make touch attacks, and anything can make unarmed strikes. Nothing needs to be proficient with touch attacks since they are not a category of weapon one can be proficient with. As for unarmed strikes, technically they are simple weapons.

[TuggyNE]

"Attacks --" merely means the creature has no frequently employed natural attacks. It does not mean it is unable to attack. Otherwise, Elves would only be able to attack with longswords or longbows.

Anything can make touch attacks, and anything can make unarmed strikes. Nothing needs to be proficient with touch attacks since they are not a category of weapon one can be proficient with.
Fair enough.


As for unarmed strikes, technically they are simple weapons.
Yes, but my point was that constructs don't get simple weapon proficiency. :smalltongue: "Proficient with natural weapons only."

[Larkas]

Yes, but my point was that constructs don't get simple weapon proficiency. :smalltongue: "Proficient with natural weapons only."

Actually, AFAIK Unarmed Strikes are Natural Weapons, and count as Light weapons. This has no bearing on this case, though, as Ur-Priest pointed out.