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View Full Version : CHA boosting items in 3.5



Draconi Redfir
2012-06-22, 11:46 AM
So my paladin so far only has a CHA bonus of +2, meaning his lay-on-hands ability is really only twice his paladin level, which is fairly low at them moment (level six, recently seven.) So i've been looking for an item of eagles splendor or something that can boost my charisma up a bit to increase this by a fair amount, my DM suggested looking in the Wondrous Items lists to see if there is anything there that can help. (how i would get it, i don't know.)

Uuunfortionately i don't own all of the allowed books, so buying them all just to look for one specific type of item would be a pretty big waste. Would it be at all possible for someone to at least point out what books have an item or two that can boost my Charisma? preferably ones that are available to a level 7-ish character.

The allowed books are listed in the spoiler.


All Core
All Complete
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Miniatures Handbook
Oriental Adventures
Player's Handbook II (with exceptions, please ask DM for approval. Please note: Chapter 8 in PHB 2 (Rebuilding Characters) is not allowed under any circumstances.)
Rokugan, and affiliated books (with exception to the setting. Only classes, feats, skills, and magic are allowed, but please ask DM for approval)
Spell Compendium (except Summon Elemental Monolith, from any source including Complete Arcane)

King Atticus
2012-06-22, 11:53 AM
If you don't want to buy the books check out the SRD it has the core stuff.

Cloak of Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofCharisma)

Kalim
2012-06-22, 11:53 AM
Cloak of Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofCharisma)

Swordsaged. :(

sonofzeal
2012-06-22, 12:23 PM
Miniatures Handbook also has "Belt of Magnificence", but it's a bit of a ripoff even for what it does (+2/+4/+6 to all stats). Unless you're seriously using all stats equally, which seems unlikely, the extra cost is usually prohibitive. Especially since MIC made item slots a much softer limit; I highly recommend picking up that book when you can.

Douglas
2012-06-22, 12:25 PM
Every ability score has two standard items that increase it. One is worn and gives an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6, which goes away any time you take the item off. The other is a magic book that takes 48 hours (spread over at least 6 days) to read, and when you finish reading it gives a permanent inherent bonus between +1 and +5 and becomes nonmagical (so only one person can benefit from the book's magic).

For charisma, they are the Cloak of Charisma (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cloakofCharisma) and Tome of Leadership and Influence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#tomeofLeadershipandInfluence).

The book costs a lot more and is generally only used by very high level characters who care a lot about a particular ability score and already have the +6 version of the enhancement bonus item.

There are very few magic items that grant bonuses to ability scores of types other than enhancement or inherent, and even if you manage to find one it will have a high price tag.

Vladislav
2012-06-22, 01:02 PM
A cloak of Charisma costs 4,000 gp and provides with a +2 Charisma. All the time.
A wand of Eagle's Splendor costs 4,500 gp and provides with a +4 Charisma. 50 times, 3 minutes each time.

If you only need the charisma for laying hands, it seems +4 for 3 minutes is better than +2 always.

Flickerdart
2012-06-22, 01:07 PM
The wand is consumable, though. What would an Eternal Wand of Eagle's Splendor cost?

Also, consider the Serenity feat, which swaps all Paladin CHA-based abilities to use WIS. Wisdom is easier to boost, since in addition to the standard ways to boost it, there is also the Owl's Insight spell in the Spell Compendium which stacks with Owl's Wisdom/Periapt of Wisdom.

King Atticus
2012-06-22, 01:11 PM
The wand is consumable, though. What would an Eternal Wand of Eagle's Splendor cost?

4420 gp and it would last for 9 minutes a use.

sonofzeal
2012-06-22, 01:12 PM
The wand is consumable, though. What would an Eternal Wand of Eagle's Splendor cost?
You'd have to have over 25 adventuring days before the Eternal Wand becomes a good idea, and even then you're losing flexibility within the day. Given that it usually takes something like 12 encounters to level up, and an average adventuring day is supposed to average about four encounters.... if you're making the purchase at lvl 8, you won't pass the point of intersection until lvl 16. If the campaign even makes it that far. And by that point, you can afford a +6 cha item and get a better bonus constantly.

Eternal Wands suck, folks. Unless you can make use of them on your days off, they're pretty much never going to be worth it if you could use a regular wand instead.

gorfnab
2012-06-22, 02:26 PM
If you're just wanting to boost your Lay on Hands look into getting a Unicorn Pendant (Magic Item Compendium).

137beth
2012-06-22, 02:49 PM
Well yea, but an eternal wand would still be better than a cloak of charisma in this case:smallamused:
So yea, use a regular wand.

Khedrac
2012-06-22, 04:09 PM
Except Eternal Wands can only be used by any arcane caster.

They don't work like normal wands:
Normal wand is any spell up to 4th level and to use must be on spell list of the wand wielder's class(es).
Eternal Wand is any arcane spell up to 3rd level and must be an arcane caster to use.

A single class paladin cannot use one.

Snowbluff
2012-06-22, 05:55 PM
Horseshoes of Flame give +6, untyped. Savage Species. Just UMD to pretend you are a horse and nail them into your feet, and you're good to go.

Vladislav
2012-06-22, 06:21 PM
Horseshoes of Flame give +6, untyped. Savage Species. Just UMD to pretend you are a horse and nail them into your feet, and you're good to go.

As a DM, I would laugh hysterically, give the player 100 XP, then point to:


Emulate a Race
Some magic items work only for members of certain races, or work better for members of those races. You can use such an item as if you were a race of your choice. You can emulate only one race at a time.
Say goodbye to your magic armor, magic weapons, and all that stuff. Because you can only emulate one race at a time. And horses can't use magical weapons and human-sized armor.

ryu
2012-06-22, 06:38 PM
Emulate centaur. :smallamused:

King Atticus
2012-06-22, 07:01 PM
Say goodbye to your magic armor, magic weapons, and all that stuff. Because you can only emulate one race at a time. And horses can't use magical weapons and human-sized armor.

You would only BE emulating one race. He really is a human he's pretending (read:emulating) to be a horse. He would only be emulating more than one race if he was pretending to be both.

Snowbluff
2012-06-22, 10:38 PM
As a DM, I would laugh hysterically, give the player 100 XP, then point to:


Say goodbye to your magic armor, magic weapons, and all that stuff. Because you can only emulate one race at a time. And horses can't use magical weapons and human-sized armor.

The magic properties aren't tied to your humanity. Hell, the armor isn't even tied to this, animals wear armor all the time, just have it refitted. Also, as the other person pointed out, you are only emulating another race, it does not change your type.

Curmudgeon
2012-06-23, 05:23 AM
Horseshoes of Flame give +6, untyped. Savage Species. Just UMD to pretend you are a horse and nail them into your feet, and you're good to go.
Very droll. Yes, you could use Use Magic Device to activate these if you wore them, except a Humanoid could not wear the set of 4 required for the magic to function regardless of how much foot mutilation they're prepared to accept. The requirement is that these items must be worn.

Mithril Leaf
2012-06-23, 05:29 AM
Very droll. Yes, you could use Use Magic Device to activate these if you wore them, except a Humanoid could not wear the set of 4 required for the magic to function regardless of how much foot mutilation they're prepared to accept. The requirement is that these items must be worn.

Nail them to your toenails. That's how horses wear them.

Curmudgeon
2012-06-23, 05:41 AM
Nail them to your toenails. That's how horses wear them.
Yes, one shoe per foot.

Mithril Leaf
2012-06-23, 06:05 AM
Yes, one shoe per foot.

One on the big toenail, one on the little. 2 per foot.

More on the original topic, if you have stormwrack, you can get an admiral's bicorne for an untyped +5 bonus to all charisma checks. This includes lay on hands. A bit expensive for your blood though, 51000 GP.

candycorn
2012-06-23, 06:16 AM
One on the big toenail, one on the little. 2 per foot.

More on the original topic, if you have stormwrack, you can get an admiral's bicorne for an untyped +5 bonus to all charisma checks. This includes lay on hands. A bit expensive for your blood though, 51000 GP.

Lay on Hands is not a charisma check. Charisma checks involve rolling a D20, and adding your charisma modifier to it.

Mithril Leaf
2012-06-23, 06:39 AM
Lay on Hands is not a charisma check. Charisma checks involve rolling a D20, and adding your charisma modifier to it.

Damn, guess they don't work. Ah well. Works for leadership, figured it might work here.

Draconi Redfir
2012-06-23, 09:37 AM
If you're just wanting to boost your Lay on Hands look into getting a Unicorn Pendant (Magic Item Compendium).

MIC isn't listed in the allowed books, but it's also not listed in the banned books, so it's worth a shot. i'll ask the DM if it's possible.



Horseshoes of Flame give +6, untyped. Savage Species. Just UMD to pretend you are a horse and nail them into your feet, and you're good to go.

Yeahhh probably not. Plus Savage Species is on the banned list, wich in hignsight i probably should have listed as well, sorry :P



As for the wands, i'd rather not need to spend an action just to boost my charisma, part of the reason i want an item that does it is just so i can just use it whenever i need to. As for switching Cha with Wis, my Wis is no better so probably not.


i'll bring up the unicorn pendant, but i think the cloak is the fallback posistion at this point. thanks for the help guys.

Marootsoobutsu
2012-06-23, 10:21 AM
Miniature's Handbook has a 4th level Paladin spell, Righteous Aura, that gives an untyped +4 bonus to CHA; it was reprinted unchanged (in that aspect, at least), in the Spell Compendium. Either a wand or an at-will item (it's duration is 1 hour/level) could help (though either might be beyond a 7th level character's ability to afford). Still, no UMD check on that wand for you.

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-23, 10:57 AM
Horseshoes of Flame don't "just" give you an untyped bonus to Charism. They make you become a Nightmare. Even if you UMD it somehow (and seriously, you would at the very least need to be a bauriaur or centaur, the whole "two horseshoes per foot" thing is way too forced to fly - I'd probably allow it on a minotaur as a houserule, though), you still become a horse, so good luck using any weapons (you could get a braidblade and be Amaterasu from the Ookami games, I guess).

willpell
2012-06-23, 11:23 AM
The book costs a lot more and is generally only used by very high level characters who care a lot about a particular ability score and already have the +6 version of the enhancement bonus item.

Note: One exception would be the Tome of Clear Thought, which may be worth it to some characters as soon as they can possibly afford one that's good enough for them (if they can expect to get a +5 someday, they probably won't waste money on a +1, unless they can afford that waste), because an inherent bonus to Intelligence is the only way to get extra skill points. This is one case in which the wearable item is not automatically preferable.

Kalim
2012-06-23, 12:18 PM
Unicorn Pendant is 6k to treat your CHA as 4 higher ONLY for Lay On Hands. That's a +2 for the purposes of calculating Paladin x CHA.

Meanwhile, Cloak of Charisma +2 is 4k, leaving you 2k for other things. It's only a +1 to your Lay on Hands calculation (Paladin x CHA), but it's also a +1 to every save, a +1 on your Smite Evil attack roll, an extra Turn Undead attempt per day, and a +1 to all CHA skill checks.

Charisma is just going to be better for you than 'behaves like Charisma for one thing'. I recommend eventually getting a Unicorn Pendant, but if you don't even have a Cloak of Charisma yet (Or, using MIC rules, a +CHA bonus on another item), you really should get one before you bother with Unicorn Pendant.

Snowbluff
2012-06-23, 03:00 PM
Horseshoes of Flame don't "just" give you an untyped bonus to Charism. They make you become a Nightmare. Even if you UMD it somehow (and seriously, you would at the very least need to be a bauriaur or centaur, the whole "two horseshoes per foot" thing is way too forced to fly - I'd probably allow it on a minotaur as a houserule, though), you still become a horse, so good luck using any weapons (you could get a braidblade and be Amaterasu from the Ookami games, I guess).

Well, when you subtract horse from Nightmare, you get the difference. Which would be the exact change it imparts on the creature. You become fiery and dark.

It doesn't even say Nightmare, it says a creature resembling one, meaning the actual physical changes are superficial.

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-23, 03:16 PM
It doesn't even say Nightmare, it says a creature resembling one, meaning the actual physical changes are superficial.
It means nothing of the sort. Since you're emulating a horse with UMD, you become a horse similar to a Nightmare.

Snowbluff
2012-06-23, 03:21 PM
It means nothing of the sort. Since you're emulating a horse with UMD, you become a horse similar to a Nightmare.

You don't actually become a horse to emulate one, why would the item turn you into a horse if all it does to actually horses is a stat boost and some fire?

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-23, 03:37 PM
You don't actually become a horse to emulate one, why would the item turn you into a horse if all it does to actually horses is a stat boost and some fire?

Because the items works as if you were a horse, of course. Everything works as if you were horse. You don't get to pick and choose.

Sgt. Cookie
2012-06-23, 03:51 PM
I think what is being said is: You are emulating the appearence of a nightmare, as a humanoid.


By the way, horses have four limbs, humans have four limbs.

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-23, 03:56 PM
I think what is being said is: You are emulating the appearence of a nightmare, as a humanoid.


By the way, horses have four limbs, humans have four limbs.
Horses are quadrupeds, humans are not.

Curmudgeon
2012-06-23, 08:11 PM
Well, when you subtract horse from Nightmare, you get the difference. Which would be the exact change it imparts on the creature.
Magical device activation doesn't work that way. An item creates exactly the effect it describes (so you resemble a Nightmare in all relevant aspects), or it does nothing. Because you can't actually wear 4 horseshoes as a Humanoid, it does nothing.

ryu
2012-06-23, 08:53 PM
Hand mutilation a go go!

Snowbluff
2012-06-23, 09:23 PM
Magical device activation doesn't work that way. An item creates exactly the effect it describes (so you resemble a Nightmare in all relevant aspects), or it does nothing. Because you can't actually wear 4 horseshoes as a Humanoid, it does nothing.

The description never says 4. Text trumps table, but i would imagine they trump pictures as well. 2 at least, but 4 is a might leap.

Otherwise we could also assume that their are 6 horseshoes, made for the horse of a god, and only Slepnir (sp?) may use them.

That tangent leads down to 'what is common sense' and 'what is normal' arguments, which aren't productive unless we are proving that invisibility should work under water, unless the spell was conceived by spacemen, in which case the spell would only function in a vacuum.

Curmudgeon
2012-06-23, 10:34 PM
The description never says 4. Text trumps table, but i would imagine they trump pictures as well. 2 at least, but 4 is a might leap.
But there's no "trumping" going on here: the text never says you can wear "2 at least".
An ordinary horse wearing these horseshoes may transform up to three times per day, for up to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare. The picture shows that "these horseshoes" are 4 in number.

If the text disagreed with the picture you would be correct. It does not.

Snowbluff
2012-06-23, 11:10 PM
But there's no "trumping" going on here: the text never says you can wear "2 at least". The picture shows that "these horseshoes" are 4 in number.

If the text disagreed with the picture you would be correct. It does not.

No, the picture is not admissible for this ruling.

Their has two be at least two of them from the text, as they are referred to in the plural, but no exact number is given. Even if their is 4 of them, nothing is keeping you from finding space for 4 of these on your person. Unless you have in-book text on how items are placed on creatures emulating a race.

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-24, 11:45 AM
No, the picture is not admissible for this ruling.

Their has two be at least two of them from the text, as they are referred to in the plural, but no exact number is given. Even if their is 4 of them, nothing is keeping you from finding space for 4 of these on your person. Unless you have in-book text on how items are placed on creatures emulating a race.

You're grasping at straws.
Why is the picsture not admissible for this ruling?
You need apropriate slots for items. Savage Species goes at lenght on this, btw.

Snowbluff
2012-06-24, 12:47 PM
You're grasping at straws.
Why is the picsture not admissible for this ruling?
You need apropriate slots for items. Savage Species goes at length on this, btw.

I not saying that the picture is not allowed because it goes against my argument, I am saying there no precedent that I am aware that would allow artwork to be considered RAWD. Find me the precedent and I'll concede the point.

Can you find me the passage on slots in SS? I'm looking in the equipment section and I can not find it.

Flickerdart
2012-06-24, 01:22 PM
Pelorites casting Symbol of Pain kind of rule out artwork as being a source of rules...

Curmudgeon
2012-06-24, 04:46 PM
Pelorites casting Symbol of Pain kind of rule out artwork as being a source of rules...
No, just a case where text does trump other rules sources where there's a conflict. There's no conflict regarding horseshoes.


Can you find me the passage on slots in SS? I'm looking in the equipment section and I can not find it. You're looking in the wrong book. The 3.5 rules about body slots for non-Humanoid creatures are in Magic Item Compendium on page 219.

Flickerdart
2012-06-24, 04:48 PM
No, just a case where text does trump other rules sources where there's a conflict. There's no conflict regarding horseshoes.
I'm going to have to ask for a quote on "text trumps picture" then, because otherwise, specific trumps general and the SoP picture-rule holds.

Mordokai
2012-06-24, 04:51 PM
I didn't read the whole thread, but what I did recently read is the whole Age of Worms adventure path, along with associated Wormfood articles and one of those offers you a Cloak of Sorcerer King, a 102000 gp item that gives you +6 to charisma, along with bunch of nice, nice, NICE abilities.

Granted, it's much better for sorcerer, or even bard and it's much too expensive for you right now, but it just had to said.

Curmudgeon
2012-06-24, 05:05 PM
I'm going to have to ask for a quote on "text trumps picture" then, because otherwise, specific trumps general and the SoP picture-rule holds. That was a bit of an over-reach on my part.

Errata Rule: Primary Sources

When you find a disagreement between two D&D® rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence when the short description in the beginning of the spells chapter disagrees.

Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves book and topic precedence. The Player's Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for playing PC races, and for using base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those topics from the Dungeon Master's Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player's Handbook, you should assume the Player's Handbook is the primary source. The Dungeon Master's Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities. Text is given as a more primary source than tables, and longer text for spells is more primary than shorter text ─ at least where that short text appears at the beginning of the Spells chapter. I was extending the longer text is more primary example to also apply to shorter text accompanying a picture.

No source inside a book is declared as most primary; the ranking is all explained in examples. But information in the D&D books is source material without exception, since books are explicitly referenced as sources.

The Primary Sources Errata Rule comes into play when there's a disagreement. There isn't any disagreement between the text and pictures of Horseshoes of Flame.

animewatcha
2012-06-24, 05:15 PM
Care to try extreme approaches?

Monks are depicted in the books as to 'emulate' proficiency in their unarmed strikes ( right down not taking a -4 for nonproficiency ). According to Curmudgeon, monks are proficient no matter what the list of proficiencies say.

How about the KING of emulation? The artificer. In accordance with it's class feature, the artificer emulates non-skill non-feat requisites for creating things. According to Curmudgeon, the artificer actually is able to cast and therefore ( during the creating of the item ) end the campaign via a custom spell ( no matter the level or anything so long as the UMD check can be made ). Also, the artificer actually becomes the race. Actually becomes the alignment.

Cormudgeon's own points being used against him aside.

Let's check the 'natural emulation machines' aka the changelings. Specifically, the racial emulation feat. Oh wait. Humanoid-type thinger aside due to changeling-a-tude, the feat even has text in as far as emulation accordance with 'you emulate being the horse for the purpose of being able to use this item' not 'actually become the horse for the purpose of meeting this prerequisite.'

The savage species text ( in respect to the horse itself ) also specificly says that the horse transforms into something RESEMBLING a nightmare along with some bonuses. If it were to actually transform into a nightmare, we would be using the stat block of nightmare ( with different horseshoes for different types of specific nightmare if/where applicable ) with very specific exceptions having to be said. Both good and bad parts of 'being a nightmare'. Translation, do not become a nightmare. Better example. Enlarge person versus actually being a size category larger due to template ( half-mino ) or race ( please also note that said races also have specific stats to go with them to be used instead of the monster manual chart ).

As far as the '4 v 2' argument. UMD or heck, use the 'different body slot' method that even the srd has IIRC. I.E. gloves of almighty fists.
"Horseboots of flames" ?

Let's not forget the divine spark. An artificer can UMD this SLOTLESS bad boy to make use of it for resistance +5 and whatever else he can and/or wants to use it for ( item familiar, relic, ancestral relic, **** ring, etc. )


The Primary Sources Errata Rule comes into play when there's a disagreement. There isn't any disagreement between the text and pictures of Horseshoes of Flame.

Curmudgeon's Point: I use the text as a primary rules and the picture as a secondary rules source to justify it since afterall the picture is based on the the item.


What this translates into is basically that 'when emulating' the text is to be used as a precedent over the picture since the picture is 'secondary' and being depicted 'as if' it was a horse that would be using them. Text would trump the picture.

-edited-

Curmudgeon
2012-06-24, 06:01 PM
According to Curmudgeon, monks are proficient no matter what the list of proficiencies say.
That's nonsense. See posts here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11338917&postcount=3), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11319386&postcount=14), and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11267525&postcount=37) just for some obvious examples to the contrary.

Please don't put words in my mouth. It's especially egregious when there's direct evidence contradicting you. I would appreciate it if you would address the points I've actually made, rather than fancifully (and illogically) "extending" from what you think my principles are and then arguing about that nonsense.

animewatcha
2012-06-24, 06:48 PM
*looks back through the thread and proceeds to headdesk*

I don't know how, but somehow ( amongst doing lots of other things at the moment and still am ) I got you confused with other posters.

The points do stand, though it was mainly aimed at their respective posters. Like the one emulating a nightmare versus actually being a nightmare.

Also, when we think of wearing 'x pair of gloves' for x ability. It is natural to think we gotta wear both at once. Yet, even the MIC it has specific items that state 'both/etc. must be worn at the same time' to take effect ( and somewhere there being only latest equipped takes effect or something ) As far as horseshoes go, it doesn't have a 'all 4 must be worn at the same time' to take effect. By Raw, a person could emulate a horse or centaur or whatever else 'race' applies for horseshoes. Also the hell hound to ring on toe of forelimb.

Cruiser1
2012-06-24, 07:00 PM
Miniature's Handbook has a 4th level Paladin spell, Righteous Aura, that gives an untyped +4 bonus to CHA; it was reprinted unchanged (in that aspect, at least), in the Spell Compendium.Righteous Aura gives a +4 sacred bonus to CHA. In that respect it's equivalent to the spell Inner Beauty (FC1) which also gives a +4 sacred bonus to CHA.

Horseshoes of Flame give +6, untyped. Savage Species. Just UMD to pretend you are a horse and nail them into your feet, and you're good to go.To avoid issues with a person not having hooves, craft the item yourself and use the item crafting rules to combine the Horseshoes of Flame effect with an existing pair of magical boots. Start with something cheap like 2500 gp Boots of Elvenkind (which become 3750 gp when combined with the more expensive horseshoes). Then you just wear nice normal boots, and get the cool +CHA effect after your UMD check. :smallsmile:

Sutremaine
2012-06-24, 07:08 PM
Since you're emulating a horse with UMD, you become a horse similar to a Nightmare.
This could get silly very quickly depending on which race you're emulating. Hydra seems like a good one to pick; even if you're only getting the physical aspects of the race you're emulating you still get a bunch of bite attacks.

Flickerdart
2012-06-24, 07:20 PM
This could get silly very quickly depending on which race you're emulating. Hydra seems like a good one to pick; even if you're only getting the physical aspects of the race you're emulating you still get a bunch of bite attacks.
Emulating a hydra doesn't turn you into anything, because the horseshoes only work for horses.

Sutremaine
2012-06-28, 10:18 PM
ThiagoMartell is arguing that if you UMD a set of magical items for horses, everything works as if you were a horse ("Since you're emulating a horse with UMD, you become a horse similar to a Nightmare."). If UMDing Magic Item X makes you become a horse because Magic Item X is for horses, then one should be able to create Magic Item Y that makes you become a hydra when you UMD it because Magic Item Y is for hydras.

I'm not commenting on the horseshoes themselves, I'm commenting on the logic of having a character turn into a member of a certain race when they emulate that race with the UMD skill.

TuggyNE
2012-06-29, 01:23 AM
If UMDing Magic Item X makes you become a horse because Magic Item X is for horses, then one should be able to create Magic Item Y that makes you become a hydra when you UMD it because Magic Item Y is for hydras.

And this way lies madness and rules abuse. Hydras are bad enough, but what about crafting an item that requires, say, a hecatoncheires to use? Or a tarrasque?

Please do not enable polymorph shenanigans through crafting.

ThiagoMartell
2012-06-29, 07:07 AM
ThiagoMartell is arguing that if you UMD a set of magical items for horses, everything works as if you were a horse ("Since you're emulating a horse with UMD, you become a horse similar to a Nightmare."). If UMDing Magic Item X makes you become a horse because Magic Item X is for horses, then one should be able to create Magic Item Y that makes you become a hydra when you UMD it because Magic Item Y is for hydras.

I'm not commenting on the horseshoes themselves, I'm commenting on the logic of having a character turn into a member of a certain race when they emulate that race with the UMD skill.
Horseshoes of flame transform you into a horse similar to a nightmare. That's what the item does.
Unless you can find an item than transforms a hydra into something else (a pyrohydra?), then your point is moot anyway. Don't bring custom magic items, which are always subject to DM approval, to a RAW discussion.

Eisirt
2012-06-29, 07:32 AM
A bit over budget at the moment, but for later.

Rod of Splendor (DMG 236-237)
The possessor of this rod gains a +4 enhancement bonus to her Charisma score for as long as she holds or carries the item. Once per day, the rod creates and garbs her in clothing of the finest fabrics, plus adornments of furs and jewels. Apparel created by the magic of the rod remains in existence for 12 hours. However, if the possessor attempts to sell or give away any part of it, to use it for a spell component, or the like, all the apparel immediately disappears. The same applies if any of it is forcibly taken from her. The value of noble garb created by the rod ranges from 7,000 to 10,000 gp (1d4+6 × 1,000 gp)—1,000 gp for the fabric alone, 5,000 gp for the furs, and the rest for the jewel trim (maximum of twenty gems, maximum value 200 gp each).

In addition, the rod has a second special power, usable once per week. Upon command, it creates a palatial tent—a huge pavilion of silk 60 feet across. Inside the tent are temporary furnishings and food suitable to the splendor of the pavilion and sufficient to entertain as many as one hundred persons. The tent and its trappings last for one day. At the end of that time, the tent and all objects associated with it (including any items that were taken out of the tent) disappear.

Strong conjuration and transmutation; CL 12th; Craft Rod, eagle’s splendor, fabricate, major creation; Price 25,000 gp.