Building a Pathfinder Campaign of an All Cavalier Party

[Tokuhara]

Having read over the Cavalier class, its sheer versatility (archetypes and Samurai included) can fit many different roles. In a fit of genius, I thought to make a "Knights of the Round Table" campaign for an all Cavalier party.

Yes, there is no "healbot," "skillmonkey," but the group could cover 90% of all encounters.

The plan is I enforce the classes, but everyone is free to choose their Order, Archetypes, Race, and Class (Samurai or Cavalier), so that they can fill one of the many "roles" for a party.

Again, the theme is Knights of the Round Table, but in a higher fantasy setting, a land very normal in PF. The campaign will center around the idea of "Knights who serve the land/employer/etc. to protect the kingdom."

My questions:

1. Should I allow Paladin into the list, or would Cavalier and Samurai (skinned as a Bodyguard-type class) be sufficient. It fits the theme, and since "Cavalier" is so versatile, with every order and archetype (3rd party included), they can fit any role necessary. That, and this would be a group who has never explored classes outside of Core, so the group can learn that Cavalier is a fun class.

2. How should I gauge the encounters to best suit an all Cavalier/Samurai party? Without a dedicated caster/healer, the party is melee-primary, but with clever building, the party can fill the roles.

3. The party will be going 1-20 within a kingdom (roughly the size of the entire United States) and generally stay within said kingdom. How can I make the party work together towards a singular goal?

4. NPCs are the bane of my existence. How can I easily make NPCs that the party will genuinely give a crap about?

5. How do I keep the party from all making one type of Cavalier/Samurai? I understand that options can alleviate this, but should I enforce a "One Player per Order and Archetype" rule, or should I leave the PCs to their own devices and pray that they all don't make Uberchargers?

Thanks folks, and may you always roll Natural 20's (unless you cheat, then shame on you...)

[grarrrg]

Would some Multi-Classing be allowed?
What about PrC's?

There are some PrC's that would mesh fairly well with "Cavalier-Flavor", some of which require non-Cavalier dips. It would be a decent way to promote diversity, while still maintaining "All Cavalier".

Battle Herald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/battle-herald): 10 levels, requires 1 level of Bard. Would be the "leader" role, levels stack for Inspire Courage, Tactician, Banner.

Chevalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/chevalier): A 3 level 'non-magic Paladin', Gives Aura of Courage, 1/day Smite Evil, Immune Poison, and no longer take -2 AC penalty when charging.

Hellknight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight): A 10 level 'Law-only Paladin', Smite Chaos, Detect Chaos, Armor Training for Hellknight Armor.

Low Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/low-templar): 10 level, Full Bab, w/2d6 Sneak Attack, and some nice tricks/abilities, especially +2 on all Combat Maneuver checks. Would be the Flanker/Battlefield control.

Stalwart Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/stalwart-defender): 10 levels, has 'Defensive-Rage', Uncanny Dodge, DR/-. Cannot move while "raging" though.

Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war): 10 level INT/Skill focused. FINALLY a decent Skill Monkey, 6 Skills/level, and can use INT instead of DEX for AC (giving you a reason to pump INT for more skills). Can also partially ignore DR.

[Tokuhara]

Would some Multi-Classing be allowed?
What about PrC's?

There are some PrC's that would mesh fairly well with "Cavalier-Flavor", some of which require non-Cavalier dips. It would be a decent way to promote diversity, while still maintaining "All Cavalier".

Battle Herald (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/battle-herald): 10 levels, requires 1 level of Bard. Would be the "leader" role, levels stack for Inspire Courage, Tactician, Banner.

Chevalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/chevalier): A 3 level 'non-magic Paladin', Gives Aura of Courage, 1/day Smite Evil, Immune Poison, and no longer take -2 AC penalty when charging.

Hellknight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight): A 10 level 'Law-only Paladin', Smite Chaos, Detect Chaos, Armor Training for Hellknight Armor.

Low Templar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/low-templar): 10 level, Full Bab, w/2d6 Sneak Attack, and some nice tricks/abilities, especially +2 on all Combat Maneuver checks. Would be the Flanker/Battlefield control.

Stalwart Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/stalwart-defender): 10 levels, has 'Defensive-Rage', Uncanny Dodge, DR/-. Cannot move while "raging" though.

Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war): 10 level INT/Skill focused. FINALLY a decent Skill Monkey, 6 Skills/level, and can use INT instead of DEX for AC (giving you a reason to pump INT for more skills). Can also partially ignore DR.

Multiclassing is a no, since there would be a roleplaying repercussion, but PrCs would be allowed.

[Engine]

1. Should I allow Paladin into the list, or would Cavalier and Samurai (skinned as a Bodyguard-type class) be sufficient. It fits the theme, and since "Cavalier" is so versatile, with every order and archetype (3rd party included), they can fit any role necessary. That, and this would be a group who has never explored classes outside of Core, so the group can learn that Cavalier is a fun class.

Your call. Surely the Paladin would be a precious addition to the party because she has powers the Cavalier couldn't replicate and that would be useful (healing, Detect Evil at will, various auras, spells).


2. How should I gauge the encounters to best suit an all Cavalier/Samurai party? Without a dedicated caster/healer, the party is melee-primary, but with clever building, the party can fill the roles.

Well, the encounter should be tailored so the Cavalier could use her mount. I would avoid typical dungeon encounters where the mount couldn't be used (of course they could happen now and then).


3. The party will be going 1-20 within a kingdom (roughly the size of the entire United States) and generally stay within said kingdom. How can I make the party work together towards a singular goal?

They're in service of their Orders. The Orders are in service of the kingdom. It could be simple as that. Another way is that every Order gave a specific mission to each character (maybe every mission is different in the end) and these missions requires that the characters should work together.


4. NPCs are the bane of my existence. How can I easily make NPCs that the party will genuinely give a crap about?

Well, when I was a GM for Cyberpunk 2020\V3 I always encouraged the players to flesh out the NPCs of their past, their contacts, their friends, their allies (the system helps about that). So in the end a lot of NPCs were THEIR NPCs, they created them so it were easier for the players to care about them.


5. How do I keep the party from all making one type of Cavalier/Samurai? I understand that options can alleviate this, but should I enforce a "One Player per Order and Archetype" rule, or should I leave the PCs to their own devices and pray that they all don't make Uberchargers?

This would prove difficult. One or two could make a mounted archer, but I feel would be difficult to have truly different characters at least from a mechanical viewpoint. The Cavalier is, well, a mounted charger for the most part. Her class features revolve around that.

In the end, I truly want to see Chicago before I die. I love your city.

[Tokuhara]

1. Paladin could be a good call, minus somehow, I'd have to tie them to Orders all the same. Any ideas?

2 & 5. Not every Cavalier uses their mount. Look at the Musketeer, the Inspiring leader, the Shogun, the Sword Saint, and some of the Paladin Archetypes drop the mount in favor of other class features. Not saying that Mounts aren't great, but it could be worth it.

3. Orders working for the Kingdom are a good plan, minus Order of the Cockatrice (aka: Order of the Jerks. Granted, they are my fave order, but still).

4. So have lots of Unstatted NPCs to save me time, energy, and sanity?

And thanks for approving of Chicago. It's a very pretty cesspool.

[Beowulf DW]

Multiclassing is a no, since there would be a roleplaying repercussion, but PrCs would be allowed.

How can you allow PrCs but not multi-classing? The one is useless without the other.

As an English major who spent quite some time studying Arthurian literature, I feel the need to point out that many of the Knights of the Round Table (Kay and Gawain for instance) possessed a certain degree of magical power in all but the most recent versions of those stories.

[grarrrg]

Multiclassing is a no, since there would be a roleplaying repercussion, but PrCs would be allowed.

What if they "really" wanted to be a Battle Herald and only took _one_ level of Bard?
Seriously, Battle Herald is the only actual "Cavalier" PrC, due to the "Challenge Ability" requirement, and various things stacking levels. It would be a crime to disallow it in a Cavalier-Only campaign.



How can you allow PrCs but not multi-classing? The one is useless without the other.

He/We mean Multi-classing more in the sense of "Cavalier 4/Druid 10" or "Cavalier 2/Ninja 14".
There are a LOT of PrC's that can be entered with only levels of Cavalier (some are more flavor-questionable than others though)
PrC's would be 'ok' so long as they were still "Cavalier-ish"

[Tokuhara]

Multiclassing is out, but Dipping out of Cavalier/Samurai is ok, within reason. Unless it's for a PrC, the players will get a maximum of 3 non-cavalier levels. So Cavalier 7/Bard 3/Battle Herald 10 is ok, but Cavalier 2/Druid 18 is not (very Kight-Centric campaign)

[grarrrg]

Multiclassing is out, but Dipping out of Cavalier/Samurai is ok, within reason. Unless it's for a PrC, the players will get a maximum of 3 non-cavalier levels. So Cavalier 7/Bard 3/Battle Herald 10 is ok, but Cavalier 2/Druid 18 is not (very Kight-Centric campaign)

Well then, now that THAT is settled...

Here are potential builds for a group of 4 (1 each main role).
All PC's will take at least 4 levels of Cavalier, picking Archetypes that KEEP Expert Trainer, all of them will take the Horse Master feat (we may have 1 Cavalier go Cavalier/Samurai for 16+ levels, taking Boon Companion if needed/desired).

Leader, Cavalier 7+/Bard 1+/Battle Herald 10
Order of the Dragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-dragon)

Skill-Monkey, Cavalier 7+/[something with Trap Finding] 1+/Student of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/student-of-war) 10
Order of the Tome (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-tome)

Divine Caster, Cavalier 7+/Cleric/Oracle 2+/Divine Scion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/divine-scion) 10
Order of the Star (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-star)

Arcane Caster, Cavalier 7+/Sorcerer 1+/[either Arcane Archer, or Dragon Disciple (depending if Ranged/Melee is preferred)]
Order of the (almost any is fine, possibly Tome again)


Extra PC's can fill in as appropriate.

[Psyren]

Some thoughts that occur to me:

1) You're right that such a party would be primarily melee, but you could get some ranged support out of the Musketeer archetype.

2) Be careful with allowing Paladins, as PF Paladins can easily outshine Cavaliers if they put their mind to it, e.g. Sacred Servant and Empyreal Knight. A Hospitaler however would be extremely useful so your group has healing, if someone wants to play one. Divine Hunter and Holy Gun can also add more ranged options to the group.

3) It sounds like this is a low-magic campaign - while I will add the usual disclaimer that 3.5/PF don't function too well at low-magic without heavy tweaking, it can work if you're careful about monster/challenge selection.

How are Cavaliers with traps? Haven't gone through all the archetypes.

[Belril Duskwalk]

2. How should I gauge the encounters to best suit an all Cavalier/Samurai party? Without a dedicated caster/healer, the party is melee-primary, but with clever building, the party can fill the roles.
Avoid enemies who are melee-proof? :smallwink: Seriously though, just don't throw a huge heap of traps at them, try not to put them into situations where they can't reach their enemies very often, so not very many enemies that can fly or enemies with fortified walls (although do that once in awhile just to see how they react)


3. The party will be going 1-20 within a kingdom (roughly the size of the entire United States) and generally stay within said kingdom. How can I make the party work together towards a singular goal?
Create a war. Maybe make their first few levels a matter of trying to prevent or stall the war, but have it become increasingly clear that the opposing nation doesn't just want things, it wants the very land the kingdom sits on, and is willing to take it from them.


5. How do I keep the party from all making one type of Cavalier/Samurai? I understand that options can alleviate this, but should I enforce a "One Player per Order and Archetype" rule, or should I leave the PCs to their own devices and pray that they all don't make Uberchargers?

I suspect their desire for uniqueness will do that for you. I have yet to meet a player that will intentionally choose to make a character identical to that of another player.

[Andorax]

I did something along these lines myself, a long time ago (2E Birthright, 8 Paladins).

Started it off with them very low level, and called to be squires for the realm, putting them through training/paces (instant connection to an NPC...their drill sergeant, so to speak).

Sent them on some minor tasks/missions that full knights were too busy or important to handle, after meeting with the wizardly court advisor (Merlin-type).

Eventually sent them on a grand, lengthy "epic quest" sort of thing...one with numerous stanzas/stops along the way...campaign never made it through to the end of it, but it was good along the way.


One thing that helped was encouraging them to come up with their oaths/codes. Oath of Faith to their particular deity, Oath of Fealty to the realm. Personal Oath to their individual guiding principles and Paladin Oath to the class's principles and virtues.

I also painted minis for them, both on foot and mounted.

[Tokuhara]

This isn't low magic. There are still "traditional" PF monsters, traps (in some areas), etc. Plus, I'm not going to throw encounters I'd expect the traditional four-square party to be able to handle (wizard with wind wall, mage armor, and fly) without alternate means of winning the fight (weak supports to that particular portion of the ceiling). The party will be using their wits, might, and charm in approximately equal portions. There will be roughly equal xp for a debate or a clever puzzle as an encounter.

And if someone wants to go Paladin, I'll ask them to please not shadow the rest of the party. Plus, Samurai + Order of the Shield/Warrior makes a superb tank-type (samurai is less mount-centric), and personally, I'd play an Order of the Cockatrice Sword Saint.

There will be a bit of an over arch with the story with order-themed mini-quests. If it's not someone else's turn to be the focal point, at least they get to kill things.

And I like almost "enforcing " Oathsworn Paladins. I shall do that.

[Rejakor]

As long as you don't know encounters they can't deal with, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this sort of thing - even better, the character archetypes take a load off your shoulders. What sort of Knight is going to leave a maiden in need?

Screw diplomacy checks, instead have courtliness and chivalry basically give massive bonuses - so if someone wants to make some knight who talks out the side of his face, they can, but then Lancelot comes riding along and is like 'Hey guys, i'm here to help you, so very, very hard, also, I will never do a wrong' and one of the villagers passes him a mirror secretly and the medusa overlord of the village dies to the mirror.

Most combat encounters should have 'lower lances, charge' as the solution you almost don't need to roll for. Leave gritty hard combat encounters for all-out battles, desperate underground fights, and betrayals. Combats that have a serious chance of hurting/killing/maiming the knights should be seen as what they are, a hardening that lowers the belief of the knight in the chivalric ideal, and therefore not ubercommon (but not rare, this is DnD).

Solving problems that aren't necessarily of a combat nature, but without the autowin of a charm spell or divination or rogue's skills, is actually a really cool thing that makes it SO much easier to make your characters think and talk to locals and go and investigate things and whatnot.

If you have good players, they will be HANDING you hooks about their characters with which you can make NPCs that they will care about. If one guy lost his lady love, having a tough redheaded villager female barkeeper who survived some tragedy AS WELL is a huge hook and attraction for that character - and when SHE gets carried off by wyverns, WELL. TIME TO SUIT UP. GETTING STRONG NOW, WON'T BE LONG NOW, etc.

Otherwise, it's pretty easy to make memorable PCs. Make them annoying to the players, foiling the players' plots, escaping, having plans etc. Make them make the players angry, slaughtering the village that had bunting up for them when they returned from slaying the ogre and threw a massive party for them where the paladin managed to get laid, and not just slaughtering the village, LAUGHING WHILE DOING IT, and leaving on maimed villager alive to tell the PCs who did this. Make them feel sorry for NPCs, make them think NPCs are awesome or epic, give NPCs quirks that make them seem 'alive' to the players, it all adds up. Essentially just make the NPCs INTERACT IN MEANINGFUL WAYS with the party. The shopkeeper who simply sells you things in an ooc way is not interacting with the party. The shopkeeper who lets them into a back room and smiles knowingly when they're like 'holy crap' as you describe epic armour and weaponry there, and then tells them a tale about a young man who once worked a forge in this very town before rising to become a king? That shopkeeper gets remembered. Especially if he has a mannerism or two.

[Rejakor]

5. How do I keep the party from all making one type of Cavalier/Samurai? I understand that options can alleviate this, but should I enforce a "One Player per Order and Archetype" rule, or should I leave the PCs to their own devices and pray that they all don't make Uberchargers?

If the party makes 4 uberchargers and one Sword and Shield knight with a friendly side that is sort of like the Gawain of the party, well, that situation will essentially sort itself out on it's own... if the party fights nothing but 'big stupid enemies while they are on their horses and ready to charge', well, ofc that won't work well, but if they have a decent variety of encounters, sword and board gawain will end up being more useful, both in the social and chivalrous sense, as well as in the 'actually being able to block the stairway against the shrieking night demons' sense.

Once people realize you have a range of challenges and a world that will look more favourably on you and give you more opportunities if you are a friendly golden haired knight than a stolid emotionless block of wood with a charge attack, their characters will magically sprout personalities and roleplaying and specialities and signature weapons and mannerisms, and the players will have far more fun.

Even what some people term 'hardcore rollplayers' vastly prefer that sort of environment and type of character to nothing but dicerolls, we do this for the roleplaying after all.


3. The party will be going 1-20 within a kingdom (roughly the size of the entire United States) and generally stay within said kingdom. How can I make the party work together towards a singular goal?

1. You are all Knights of the Realm, and have joined up as Knights who protect the realm. Bam. Now they follow orders, or at least will at the start of the game. If they hare off on their own after that, well, that's kind of how games go, if you stop them at THAT point you're railroading.

If people go 'no I want to be a huntsman who hates knights' you go 'okay, sure, feel free to do that, but everyone playing in MY game is going to be knights of the realm. If you want to, you could be a servant TO a knight, or a squire, or something, who secretly hates knights or something, but everyone is starting as part of a group of Knights of the Realm'.

2. You are all Knights and companions of a son of a duke of the realm called Rathebarken, who is being played by Jim here. You've all heard lots of tales of adventures and chivalry, and thus have decided to ride out and defend the common folk before Raffy comes of age and has to be the dedicated heir to his lord father. Or you're along for some other reason (like say you are there to keep an eye on Rathebarken for his dad).

Bam, there's another one. You can even do it with the King of this realm is an idiot (like Arthur) and is riding around doing good deeds instead of, y'know, ruling. Or that you're an elite squad of knights who serve the kingdom but are fairly unique, and usually city guards and royal army protect the populace but you're an elite force formed by the king from the greatest knights in the land etc.


1. Should I allow Paladin into the list, or would Cavalier and Samurai (skinned as a Bodyguard-type class) be sufficient. It fits the theme, and since "Cavalier" is so versatile, with every order and archetype (3rd party included), they can fit any role necessary. That, and this would be a group who has never explored classes outside of Core, so the group can learn that Cavalier is a fun class.

Well, if you read Arthurian stuff, you quickly see that y'know, Lancelot had Barbarian levels and gawain was a bard and whatnot. Riding a horse, holding a lance, and wearing armour does not class levels in Cavalier make.

So go with whatever you feel would suit the game and get the players into the right mindset.

[Engine]

1. Paladin could be a good call, minus somehow, I'd have to tie them to Orders all the same. Any ideas?

Paladins could be part of the Order of the Star, it seems it's the best suited for them.


2 & 5. Not every Cavalier uses their mount. Look at the Musketeer, the Inspiring leader, the Shogun, the Sword Saint, and some of the Paladin Archetypes drop the mount in favor of other class features. Not saying that Mounts aren't great, but it could be worth it.

True. But a no-mount Cavalier is effective even if the fight permits the use of mounts, while a mounted Cavalier would see her effectiveness reduced in a fight where the mount couldn't be used. Unless every character is a no-mount Cavalier, I still suggest to tailor the majority of fighting encounters so the mount could be used.


3. Orders working for the Kingdom are a good plan, minus Order of the Cockatrice (aka: Order of the Jerks. Granted, they are my fave order, but still).

Well, they are still part of an Order. So while it's true that a Cavalier of the Cockatrice should be selfish, why being part of that Order if she does not care one bit about it? Not saying that such a Cavalier should do charity or obey every single order given, but if the Order says "Go on this quest because the Order needs it" such a Cavalier should take seriously into account doing what she's asked - maybe pretending a reward of some kind (being part of the Order leadership?), and try to gain as much as possible.
Of course you should find why the Order wants to help the kingdom.


4. So have lots of Unstatted NPCs to save me time, energy, and sanity?

Why not?

[Tokuhara]

My plan is to get the "Knights of the Round Table" feel. Plus, with 3 different types of encounters will mitigate combat-focused builds