[3.P] Amon [The Equalist Revolution Begins Now!]

[Arcanist]

This isn't for any particular game it is more of a Theorycraft build so feel free to make it as cheesy as you'd like, however there is only 1 rule and one rule only. No Magic at all...

As I'm sure all of you are aware the new Avatar series possess a very... passionate character whom is dedicated to the supression of benders

I would like to see if a character like this is actually possible inside the world of Dungeons and Dragons you can build this character anyway you'd like (even including Leadership, however you are not allowed to select a spellcaster as your followers or cohort)... You may use any source from just straight core all the way to Dragon Magazine and even far into Pathfinder. So effectively? Just make Amon :smallamused:

[Mithril Leaf]

Few clarifications needed:
When you say no magic, do you mean none for him himself or no magic affecting him at any point? Magic Equipment? SLAs?
Do psionics count? Binders? I figure he may have some alternative power source. I'm personally sustaining a theory that he binds demons (specifically Koh, the face stealer)?

[Arcanist]

Few clarifications needed:
When you say no magic, do you mean none for him himself or no magic affecting him at any point? Magic Equipment? SLAs?
Do psionics count? Binders? I figure he may have some alternative power source. I'm personally sustaining a theory that he binds demons (specifically Koh, the face stealer)?

If it can be used as a component for a Theurge build Amon cannot have it
He can use Magical equipment, no SLA, No Psionics, No Binding.

EDIT: On a side note, I'd like to believe that Amon simply has access to lost knowledge and simply abuses it to the extreme. :smallamused:

[Mithril Leaf]

If it can be used as a component for a Theurge build Amon cannot have it
He can use Magical equipment, no SLA, No Psionics, No Binding.

EDIT: On a side note, I'd like to believe that Amon simply has access to lost knowledge and simply abuses it to the extreme. :smallamused:

Not actually sure that such a thing is possible. Maybe half-golem for spell resistance. Can't think of any EX ability that can remove casting ability though.

[Arcanist]

Not actually sure that such a thing is possible. Maybe half-golem for spell resistance. Can't think of any EX ability that can remove casting ability though.

Well lets look at his displayed abilities.

-Possess extensive knowledge of bending
-Expert Chi Blocker
-Capable of permanently removing bending
-Extensive arsenal of technological marvels
-Resistant to Bloodbending
-Extensive knowledge of Chakras
-Charismatic
-Tactical genius

and thats all I have off the top of my head right now...

[Mithril Leaf]

Alright, for the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that benders are about equal crunch wise to Wu Jen. This means they get arcane spellcasting as far as resistances and immunity is concerned. Sound reasonable?

-Possess extensive knowledge of bending
This is just putting skill points in knowledge or spellcraft. Fairly easy to pick up seeing as he is human and the educated feat is just around the corner.

-Expert Chi Blocker
I'm lacking in ideas here, I'd say some ranks in swordsage and a bit of reflavoring, but that would nullify one of my later ideas.

-Capable of permanently removing bending
This is where my biggest issue lays. I'll search some dragon mags for material that may be able to do this in a non-magical way. My best guess for this is that he's an optimized artificer that produces custom slotless antimagic shackles which he embeds in benders when he captures them.

-Extensive arsenal of technological marvels
This is pretty easy. He's a artificer with some good optimization and lots of imagination. Alternatively, he's got a cohort with artificer levels.

-Resistant to Bloodbending
This is just spell resistance in general, half-golem replacing some of his always hidden body.

-Extensive knowledge of Chakras
Same as extensive knowledge of bending, just appropriate skill ranks.

-Charismatic
High charisma score. Maybe some items of charisma. Perhaps he keeps an admirals bicorne under that hood of his.

-Tactical genius
This makes me think he's got a solid intelligence. Additionally, marshal levels might be involved, but that hurts the artificer idea.

If you didn't negate psionics, I'd say he's a gestalt wilder 5/thrallherd 10//marshal 1/swordsage 14. Then he could pick up an artificer cohort to cover the equipment (a certain tech mogul) and a warblade to be his man in the field.

[The Gilded Duke]

Church of Knowledge Affiliation, Complete Champion. Once per day with a successful knowledge check can deny an opponent the use of a supernatural ability, only for one minute though I think. There was some argument that the spellcasting class feature of wizards sorcerers etc was a single supernatural ability.

You are probably also going to need to go tome of battle, maybe a warblade? Iron Heart Surge, the various concentration to save maneuvers, and white raven tactics will help out.

[Mithril Leaf]

Church of Knowledge Affiliation, Complete Champion. Once per day with a successful knowledge check can deny an opponent the use of a supernatural ability, only for one minute though I think. There was some argument that the spellcasting class feature of wizards sorcerers etc was a single supernatural ability.

You are probably also going to need to go tome of battle, maybe a warblade? Iron Heart Surge, the various concentration to save maneuvers, and white raven tactics will help out.

Ah, white raven tactics would cover the tactical genius and fit better than marshal. Good idea.

[Arcanist]

Alright, for the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that benders are about equal crunch wise to Wu Jen. This means they get arcane spellcasting as far as resistances and immunity is concerned. Sound reasonable?

Completely reasonable :smallsmile


-Possess extensive knowledge of bending
This is just putting skill points in knowledge or spellcraft. Fairly easy to pick up seeing as he is human and the educated feat is just around the corner.

True enough :smallamused:


-Expert Chi Blocker
I'm lacking in ideas here, I'd say some ranks in swordsage and a bit of reflavoring, but that would nullify one of my later ideas.

I'm not sure there are any Swordsage maneuvers to remove spellcasting temporarily. I can't recall off the top of my head to perform such a trick.


-Capable of permanently removing bending
This is where my biggest issue lays. I'll search some dragon mags for material that may be able to do this in a non-magical way. My best guess for this is that he's an optimized artificer that produces custom slotless antimagic shackles which he embeds in benders when he captures them.

That actually sounds good however you can just say that he has them and calls it a day. However what is keeping the bender from simply removing the item?


-Extensive arsenal of technological marvels
This is pretty easy. He's a artificer with some good optimization and lots of imagination. Alternatively, he's got a cohort with artificer levels.

True enough.


-Resistant to Bloodbending
This is just spell resistance in general, half-golem replacing some of his always hidden body.

I was thinking Karsite however that is fine as well. I personally view Half-Golem grafts as a little... gruesome...


-Extensive knowledge of Chakras
Same as extensive knowledge of bending, just appropriate skill ranks.

I listed that one because Amon presses the Crown Chakra when he takes away bending.


-Charismatic
High charisma score. Maybe some items of charisma. Perhaps he keeps an admirals bicorne under that hood of his.

Just custom item it into an Idea's Hood same effects just... well a hood :smalltongue:


-Tactical genius
This makes me think he's got a solid intelligence. Additionally, marshal levels might be involved, but that hurts the artificer idea.

You can use 20 levels you know :smallconfused: go crazy man :smalltongue:


If you didn't negate psionics, I'd say he's a gestalt wilder 5/thrallherd 10//marshal 1/swordsage 14. Then he could pick up an artificer cohort to cover the equipment (a certain tech mogul) and a warblade to be his man in the field.

That would be to easy, Amon wants equality for the Non-Casters (Personally I don't buy that and believe that he has another goal... I mean nobody fights for equality...)

[Mithril Leaf]

Forget the whole Thrallherd idea. Diplomancer. That's where the money's at. He's got a bunch of fanatical followers. If you could just give me Soulbound, I could magic away most of the chakra stuff too, but that soulmelds count as magic don't they?
What about Ex-Soulbound? They can no longer soul meld but have the experience from doing it. Might be worth considering.
Still working on the removal of spellcasting. Perhaps the item of antimagic is cursed so that it can't be removed? We might be getting somewhere with that.

[Psyren]

Witch Slayer in ToM has a "Momentary Disjunction" ability that lets you disable spellcasting, SLAs and Supernatural abilities on a target. Use that as a baseline, change it to touch range and 1-minute casting time or something, then make it permanent/instantaneous and bingo, you can take away someone's bending casting.

[Mithril Leaf]

Witch Slayer in ToM has a "Momentary Disjunction" ability that lets you disable spellcasting, SLAs and Supernatural abilities on a target. Use that as a baseline, change it to touch range and 1-minute casting time or something, then make it permanent/instantaneous and bingo, you can take away someone's bending casting.

Psyren, you are the man. The only person that can match my love of the psionic and you come to our rescue here. Freaking champ.
The only issue is that Momentary Disjunction is an SU ability. I'm not sure is those are cool under the current rules. Even so, I'm sure that hidden in some dragon magazine somewhere, there is the ability to turn an SU ability into an EX.

[Arcanist]

Psyren, you are the man. The only person that can match my love of the psionic and you come to our rescue here. Freaking champ.
The only issue is that Momentary Disjunction is an SU ability. I'm not sure is those are cool under the current rules. Even so, I'm sure that hidden in some dragon magazine somewhere, there is the ability to turn an SU ability into an EX.

I said nothing about Su abilities so it is completely reasonable for Amon to have them. :smallsmile:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well lets look at his displayed abilities.

-Possess extensive knowledge of bending
-Expert Chi Blocker
-Capable of permanently removing bending
-Extensive arsenal of technological marvels
-Resistant to Bloodbending
-Extensive knowledge of Chakras
-Charismatic
-Tactical genius

and thats all I have off the top of my head right now...

Objection!

(finale spoilers)

-Waterbender
-Expert bloodbender, who's somehow able to use bloodbending to remove bending
-Excellent reflexes
-Charismatic
-Possibly some knowledge of Chakras
-Smart, but not genius. Seriously, his upper hands pretty much consist of "new technology lolol"

[Arcanist]

Objection!

(finale spoilers)

-Waterbender
-Expert bloodbender, who's somehow able to use bloodbending to remove bending
-Excellent reflexes
-Charismatic
-Possibly some knowledge of Chakras
-Smart, but not genius. Seriously, his upper hands pretty much consist of "new technology lolol"

I work up early to watch the finale and fell asleep literally 5 minutes before it started and woke up to watch the credits... My rage knows no limits... :smallannoyed: but yes, I'll need to watch it soon...

[Madara]

You forgot to put it in the spoilers.

Still for these purposes, I think e6 would be best for the avatar world(at least Korra's time)

[McToomin]

Madara, I've actually been thinking along the same lines, which is why I'm making a set of avatar e6 classes (and races). For the world. I'd started a project where I tried to do them up to level 20, but thats simply too high of a power level imo. Sure with some fluff and suspension of disbelief, the characters could be in the teen levels (the characters in the first series, especially near the end of the show, fall into this area), but for my money the feel, style, and design of e6 fits both series much better. Keep an eye on the homebrew forum in the coming weeks; with Korra over (for now), my passion for the project has been renewed, and I think its going to turn out really well. I've already been working hard and I think my ideas are good, and will serve the world and its characters with respect without turning all classes based on a specific person's fighting style into "overpowered Mary Sue" territory.

So as for the topic at hand, I'm thinking Anon has plenty of his."epic" feats, and I have plans for specialized bending (including bloodbending) and Amon's ability that would still make it possible to gain the power, but only if you highly specialize for it (as Amon did). However, true, permanent loss would be OP, that's something I will need to figure out.

As for how to make him with existing rules? I have no idea. :P

[Waker]

Even so, I'm sure that hidden in some dragon magazine somewhere, there is the ability to turn an SU ability into an EX.

Dragon 336, pg 103, Pressure Point Strike, Celestial Dragon Point. Remove the ability to use spells and SLAs for 1d4 rounds. Removes negative effects on allies as if using Greater Dispel Magic.

And yes, I did see the update about Amon, just felt like putting that out there.

[Arcanist]

You forgot to put it in the spoilers.

Still for these purposes, I think e6 would be best for the avatar world(at least Korra's time)

You can't very well capture the true effect and power of the avatar in E6. After a point the characters begin to be capable of feats that are well into Epic Spellcasting. I mean hell the fight between Aang and Ozai would very well be an Epic Spell Duel... I'd like to say we can capture the entire world of Avatar using Psionics and limit everyones list of powers however with so much variability flairing around in the world its a little hard... for one how does Combustion Man accomplish his... mind blow-y up thingy...

But that is not the point in this discussion... We are to discuss Amon (or Noatok) being in 3.5 However the luster of this thread really falls apart upon the revelation that Amon, despite his skill and power has to for the most part rely upon Bending for his signature ability.


Dragon 336, pg 103, Pressure Point Strike, Celestial Dragon Point. Remove the ability to use spells and SLAs for 1d4 rounds. Removes negative effects on allies as if using Greater Dispel Magic.

And yes, I did see the update about Amon, just felt like putting that out there.

Waker, that is still an amazing find for anyone that wants to employ a little chi blocking in there campaigns :smallamused:

[WeeFreeMen]

Off the top of my head and without books.

Monk variant of some kind, maybe Serpent to emulate the movements Amon uses with Shinto PrC, capstone ability allows him to shut down Ex/Spellcasting with a Gaze attack. Amon always makes them look in his eyes while removing the bending, even if it isnt FAQ.. it atleast lines up a bit.

This with Pressure Point strike / Celestrial Strike would make for a very interesting build in my opinion. Plus, Shinto gives him some Steroids for combat.

If I get home in time, Ill try to throw a build together. :D

[Waker]

Waker, that is still an amazing find for anyone that wants to employ a little chi blocking in there campaigns :smallamused:
Yeah, I had remembered it was buried in one of the magazines and knew someone would eventually start clamoring for something to this effect after Legend of Korra came out. To really complete the effect, taking Pain Touch (CWar) would demonstrate the lack of motor control that one suffers from when they get chi blocked, even non-benders.


Monk variant of some kind, maybe Serpent to emulate the movements Amon uses with Shinto PrC, capstone ability allows him to shut down Ex/Spellcasting with a Gaze attack. Amon always makes them look in his eyes while removing the bending, even if it isnt FAQ.. it atleast lines up a bit.

What's the source of this Shinto PrC? I'm not familiar with it, but I assume its something from OA.

Found it, the Shintao monk. Abilities include Great Silence at level 6, a gaze attack with Will sv to make a target mute for 1 minute/level. And at 10th level Kukan-Do, gaze attack with Will sv that supresses all spells, SLAs and supernatural abilities for as long as the gaze is maintained.

[Feralventas]

With the extensive use of Charkras mentioned, would Magic of Incarnum work?

Wall of Text incoming, sorry.

The Witchborn Binder is specifically designed as an anti-'caster, Meldshaping is its own aspect of power as far as I can tell (I don't see a SP description on it) and most of the class abilities are Supernatural (And the entry in the book says that they might Resemble other spells and SLA's).

WBB gets
-Detect Magic at will, but it's SLA, so you may want to ignore it.
-Meldshield, gain +1 Insight bonus on saves vs magic per essentia invested in it.
-Royal Purse, "To finance your missions, you can draw out a sum of money equal to your Witchborn Binder levels times 500gp from the royal treasury." You can refluff this as whatever organization you'd like.
-Dispelling Orb (Su): Targeted Dispell Magic that you can boost with Essentia, 30ft range.
-Mage SHackles (Su):Beginning at 4th level, as a standard
action you can shape a set of shackles from incarnum. With
a successful melee touch attack, you can use these shackles
to bind a creature capable of arcane spellcasting or using
spell-like abilities, as long as it is within one size category
of you. You must overcome any spell resistance the target
creature might have with a successful caster level check,
using your meldshaper level as your caster level, or the
attack fails. Once so bound, the target creature is considered
entangled by the mage shackles and is also effectively barred
from planar movement, as if affected by a dimensional anchor spell. In addition, the affected creature must succeed on a
caster level check (DC 10 + your meldshaper level + essentia
invested in the mage shackles) to cast an arcane spell or use
any spell-like ability.
The mage shackles cannot be damaged or broken except
by an effect that unshapes a soulmeld, but a bound creature
can escape from them as if they were masterwork manacles
(Escape Artist DC 35). A creature incapable of casting
arcane spells or using spell-like abilities is unaffected by
the mage shackles.
You can use this ability as often as you desire, though
you can have only one set of mage shackles shaped at any
time, since shaping a second set causes the fi rst to disappear.
After 24 hours, your mage shackles automatically
unshape unless you remain within 1 mile of the shackled
creature. Otherwise, they remain shaped until you choose
to unshape them (a free action). No one except you can
use the mage shackles you shape—they simply refuse to
function at anyone else’s command."
-Word of Abrogation: Spell-like ability, but it's a free counter-spell as longa s you ready an action for it.
-Spiritflay (Su). Range 60ft, target makes a fort save= 10+WBB level+ Con modifier or take 1d8 points of damage per point of essentia you invest in it and be nausiated. Only works on creatures that are arcane spellcasters or have SLA's.
-Grim Integument (Su) You form a coffin around the target (fort save 10+wbb level+con mod), if it succeeds the target is immune to this for 24 hours, but if it fails, it's trapped in the coffin, hands bound though it can still use Spells, Psionics, or SLA's, it takes 1d6 damage per essentia you invest in it every time they do so (Fort save for half damage) and this damage has the potential to interrupt 'casting as normal. The Coffin is opaque, so 'caster can't see out, and has full concealment inside. This lasts for 24 hours, or until you move away from it (30ft+).

[Prime32]

After a point the characters begin to be capable of feats that are well into Epic Spellcasting. I mean hell the fight between Aang and Ozai would very well be an Epic Spell Duel...Eh... not really. Epic spellcasting is way crazier than the energy blasts they were flinging around (even D&D's basic fireball is pretty huge). The combatants are definitely higher than lv6 though.

[killianh]

Off the top of my head I would say Ranger 1/Swordsage 4/Occult slayer 5/Forsaker 10. Favoured enemy elementals. The downside to this build is that he is not allowed to have any magic items on himself (due to forsaking magic) but there is nothing that doesn't say that his cohort couldn't or that the third party book on steam and sorcery couldn't clean that up.