Elf Homebrew - Favored Class?

[willpell]

I'm doing a version of the Blood Elves from Warcraft 3 in my campaign; they're a largely Evil subrace driven by vengeance and bitter hatred, but unlike the Drow they don't accept their evilness, and are all screaming-mad hypocrites because they refuse to acknowledge the possibility they might be wrong in their efforts to protect themselves and punish those who harmed them. Bonus to Intelligence and probably Dexterity (I thought about Strength but it doesn't really fit), penalty to Wisdom and probably Charisma.

The part I'm not sure about is their Favored Class; the two options I'm considering are Rogue and Duskblade. I see them as being somewhat treacherous and very cynically self-reliant, so Rogue seems to fit, but it's a slightly boring option. Duskblade seems like it fits with the general "elves are magic" theme while also supporting their desire to be good at defending themselves and destroying anything that even might possibly be thinking of harming them someday.

Thoughts?

[Mithril Leaf]

I'd say:
A) Go with duskblade, they're pretty cool. Maybe even factotum.
B) Move this to the homebrew forum, that's where it belongs.

[JeminiZero]

How about a magical skillmonkey class like Factotum, or beguiler?

[willpell]

I'd say:
B) Move this to the homebrew forum, that's where it belongs.

No, the homebrew itself belongs in that forum; this is a polling of opinions from the mainstream community as related to the homebrew, and putting it in the homebrew forum (which I'm sure gets less traffic) would make it less likely to receive the responses I'm looking for.

So far it's one vote for duskblade. In an attempt to get the decision made with thorough consideration, I will argue with each vote, so here's my counterpoint on that: while Rogue isn't exclusively an Evil or Chaotic class, it tends to feel more at home in those alignments, being defined largely by opportunism and independence and the development of skills for taking advantage of people (whether present or absent). So it seems natural to me that an inherently treacherous, paranoid and bloody-minded race would favor Rogue. I agree that Duskblade is a more interesting class, but it's also non-core and spellcasting, which means I'd have to go to the effort of familiarizing myself with it, and it has no particular moral or ethical subtext. Rogue seems like the "safe" option.

[Mithril Leaf]

No, the homebrew itself belongs in that forum; this is a polling of opinions from the mainstream community as related to the homebrew, and putting it in the homebrew forum (which I'm sure gets less traffic) would make it less likely to receive the responses I'm looking for.

So far it's one vote for duskblade. In an attempt to get the decision made with thorough thought, I will argue with each vote, so here's my counterpoint on that: while Rogue isn't exclusively an Evil or Chaotic class, it tends to feel more at home in those alignments, being defined largely by opportunism and independence and the development of skills for taking advantage of people (whether present or absent). So it seems natural to me that an inherently treacherous, paranoid and bloody-minded race would favor Rogue. I agree that Duskblade is a more interesting class, but it's also non-core and spellcasting, which means I'd have to go to the effort of familiarizing myself with it, and it has no particular moral or ethical subtext. Rogue seems like the "safe" option.

I'd personally say that this is asking for critique of a homebrew race which does indeed belong on the homebrew forum, but that's up to the mods.

On the point of the rogue, that's entirely reasonable, but after noticing the bonus to intelligence and dexterity, I'd in fact like to switch my vote to factotum. They are fully capable of being self sufficient, good at lying, sneaking, whatever you want them to do, plus intelligence suits them.

[willpell]

On the point of the rogue, that's entirely reasonable, but after noticing the bonus to intelligence and dexterity, I'd in fact like to switch my vote to factotum. They are fully capable of being self sufficient, good at lying, sneaking, whatever you want them to do, plus intelligence suits them.

Negative. Factotum would be an appropriate class for individual members of this race, but I feel that it shouldn't ever be a race's favored class, because factotums by their nature seem like they should be rare and exceptional individuals. "I can do everything" doesn't sound so much like a class feature if everyone else in your hometown can also do everything.


How about a magical skillmonkey class like Factotum, or beguiler?

Blood elves are practically the exact opposite of the Beguiler's fluff - they don't fool you into trusting them, they beat you over the head for having been foolish enough to trust them, and then demand your cooperation as if there was nothing illogical about the idea that they would aid someone who just beat them over the head.

[Ranting Fool]

Spellthief! I mean sucking mana out of everything in order to live because they are all mana adicts in World Of Warcraft so the first thing that springs to mind is a Spell Thief :smallbiggrin:

[Gnorman]

The result is mostly irrelevant, since no one uses favored classes anyway, and it's usually just added as a legacy decision.

But a race of paranoid magic-addicted elves screams "Wizard" to me.

[Togath]

Spellthief or paladin would probably fit the current lore, to match either their mana addiction or to represent their "bloodknights"

[Sgt. Cookie]

"Beat them over the head and then demand their cooperation"

Sounds like a Paladin of Tyranny to me.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I can't believe that no one has suggested Warlock yet.

But in all honesty, I like Spellthief for this. It just seems to... fit, you know?

[Urpriest]

Late-3.5 design paradigm usually used racial ACFs to perform the same role as favored classes. Using that sort of design paradigm would allow you to promote both Rogue and Duskblade.

That said, if you want to use the favored class rules you should think about what they do mechanically. Specifically, favored classes encourage two things: characters dipping the favored class, and characters of the favored class dipping other classes.

Duskblade works reasonably for the first role, encouraging members of your race to take three-level dips for channeling. That said, I think Rogue is a better choice because of its value in a larger number of builds, and the encouragement for a Rogue to take other classes (Daring Outlaw, for example, not to mention the simple fact that Rogue 20 is a dead level). That said, Spelltheif also makes for a good dip.

If you want to encourage sneak-gishes, versatile Rogues, Daring Outlaws, and massively multiclassed melee, pick Rogue. If you want to encourage fast-casting gishes, pick Duskblade. If you want a wider variety of casters of odd sorts, Spelltheif.

[Empedocles]

Hexblade anyone? It fits perfectly IMHO, and if you're concerned it's underpowered there're plenty of fixes out there.

[willpell]

Hexblade anyone? It fits perfectly IMHO, and if you're concerned it's underpowered there're plenty of fixes out there.

Shooting that one down right away I'm afraid. I don't really like the idea of spellthief or warlock, but Hexblade is just such an absurdly narrow concept that I'm completely uninterested.

[Empedocles]

Shooting that one down right away I'm afraid. I don't really like the idea of spellthief or warlock, but Hexblade is just such an absurdly narrow concept that I'm completely uninterested.

It's...a gish with a darker bent then a duskblade :smallconfused:

[willpell]

Exactly. Blood Elves arent' "dark". They are CHAMPIONS OF LIGHT AND PURITY who are merely trying to defend themselves against the many enemies who are scheming to destroy them.

Admitting that they were villains by taking a "dark" class would entirely miss the point.

[Telonius]

Sounds like Moorcock elves to me ... which says Binder.

(EDIT): That's if you keep Favored Class at all. Personally that's the first thing I jettison if any houserules are in play at all.

[willpell]

Sounds like Moorcock elves to me ... which says Binder.

Nah, I love binders but the fluff of pact magic works better if it's something that nobody specializes in, an art specifically for antisocial fringe elements which no society outright condones.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Exactly. Blood Elves arent' "dark". They are CHAMPIONS OF LIGHT AND PURITY who are merely trying to defend themselves against the many enemies who are scheming to destroy them.

Aren't they also "addicted" to magic? If so, Spellthief makes sense. It isn't dark, but it does represent that whole "get my fix!" vibe.

Also, Warlocks in 3.5 can at least be chaotic and are also super magic-y, so they aren't always dark, just fey.

[White_Drake]

I second Spellthief, but I think Sorcerer fits almost as well, after all just look at Kael'thas.

[willpell]

Aren't they also "addicted" to magic?

I don't recall that being true in Warcraft 3; it might have been added to them in WOW, which I'm not familiar with. Or perhaps I'm just not remembering right, but regardless it's not an aspect of my version.


I second Spellthief, but I think Sorcerer fits almost as well, after all just look at Kael'thas.

Sorcerer is a favored class already for Wild Elves; I don't want to duplicate. It bugs me enough that more than one subrace has Wizard.