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View Full Version : Some creative help needed - A friendly contest between paladins



Jon_Dahl
2012-06-23, 01:18 PM
I'm having problems creating a friendly but meaningful challenge between two paladins.

A village has decided to sponsor a construction of a new temple, but they are not sure to which deity. The village has no clear preference.
Two different religions are vying for the right to have their own temple built there. They find the sponsorship from the village highly valuable as money doesn't grow on trees. Actually without the sponsorship it isn't even possible to build a temple. Also by dividing the sponsorship will not yield enough gold to build a temple. Maybe two shrines, but both faiths are determined to have a temple.

The religions are Pelor (Neutral Good) and Heironeous (Lawful Good).

Both have sent paladins as their representatives to the village but neither has any intention of backing down. Both paladins are loyal beyond death to their churches (big news :smallwink:) and want to bring honour to the high priests by winning the right to construct the temple. The village elders want the paladins to sort this out between themselves.

What will they do?
We are playing 3.5 but any advice is welcomed. Thank you in advance.

Leshy
2012-06-23, 01:27 PM
Bring a bunch of death row criminals to the village and whichever Paladin kills more in ten minutes wins. :smallcool:

Zombimode
2012-06-23, 01:28 PM
Both paladins are loyal beyond death to their churches (big news :smallwink:)

Uhm, yes, that actually are big news. Paladins are not Clerics. They shouldnt be devoted to a specific church.
In this situation the Paladins would evaluate the most beneficial decision. If neither temple has any significant advantages over the other, they would flip a coin or something. Or do some other stuff like: "Run 10 kilometers in full armor, than swim 100 meters (also in full armor) to this little island in the lake. Who gets there first, wins."

Geostationary
2012-06-23, 01:34 PM
Duel to first blood?
Relevant-to-their-gods feats of daring?
Game of chance/lottery?

Grail
2012-06-23, 01:41 PM
God's should be worshiped in pantheons, maybe the temple could be devoted to both? Or forgo a big temple and have two small shrines.

As for competition, theological debate.
Or
Helping the common folk with their daily troubles, planting/harvesting etc

Radar
2012-06-23, 02:14 PM
Helping the common folk with their daily troubles, planting/harvesting etc
This has the most potential. Picture this: two guys in armor racing to get firewood for an old lady and arguing, who did it better basing on either quantity, quality or time used.
Obviously both of them would try to top the other, so if one of them offered to plow the fields, the other would offer to pull the plow instead of a drudge etc.

Urpriest
2012-06-23, 02:40 PM
If they've both got mounts and the setting is sufficiently chivalry-focused, perhaps a joust? Very classic feel there.

Randomguy
2012-06-23, 03:43 PM
A quest! Whoever clears out the lair of whichever villain happens to be nearby first wins!

Sgt. Cookie
2012-06-23, 04:00 PM
A non-lethal duel, perhaps? By using blunted swords, or soft headed maces or whatever, the two Paladins duel until one is knocked unconscious.

Some broken ribs might result, but beyoned that no real damage would be done.

Randomguy
2012-06-23, 04:19 PM
soft headed maces

Now I'm picturing two paladins beating each other up with foam weapons.

Kyberwulf
2012-06-23, 04:20 PM
Why would representatives of two Morally good faiths want to compete like that.

From the way it sounds, neither side has much footing in the community. Why would a community just ambivalently decided which god to follow. You might as just say, "Whoever Churches colors best go with my Sunday dress, should win."

I think the Paladins would get together with the heads of the community, and discuss which was more needed in and around the community. Is it a farming community? Are there lots of Brigands and Highwaymen afoot? Why would a town just arbitrarily just go... "hey you know what we need.. a temple.. Brookeston down the road got one..and shelbyville up the river got a new one too... we need one... who cares which god it's for.. HEY you know what.. Pelor and Herinoious are in season ... lets go with them." Building temples is costly, and time consuming.

The paladins themselves, should find the lack of faith, disturbing in the least. I don't think they would want to Build an Temple to their gods, that their congregation didn't even have enough conviction to build the temple to service their deity.

I think the way it would go. They would decide to build Shrines to their gods or small churches, and work on the populace until some religious fervor can get stirred up enough that its not a bunch of people deciding on gods like their a sports team.

If you want to have two Paladins square off, just send them both on a quest. Whoever wins, doesn't trivialize the sanctity of their gods or religion.

jackattack
2012-06-23, 05:17 PM
1. First paladin to come back with enough loot to build a temple without the village's help gets their support.

2. First paladin to find/recover a significant artifact of their religion to build the temple around gets the village's support. Or, the one who finds/recovers the most significant artifact within a deadline.

Sgt. Cookie
2012-06-23, 05:35 PM
Now I'm picturing two paladins beating each other up with foam weapons.

Sand filled pouches would be more likely.

GolemsVoice
2012-06-23, 07:36 PM
Well, a theological debate could work, if they're both educated enough. Or each one has ten minutes to give a speech praising his/her god of choice and trying to win the townsfolk over.
Or yes, a duel, for example a fight without weapons, like a wrestling or boxing match, if they're that type of people (a paladin of Pelor might not want to beat somebody (good) up to win favour). Or some other form of divine judgement by combat.

Maybe feats of strength (climbing a mountain, endurance runs, slaying a beast) or tournaments (jousting)


The paladins themselves, should find the lack of faith, disturbing in the least. I don't think they would want to Build an Temple to their gods, that their congregation didn't even have enough conviction to build the temple to service their deity.

I think the way it would go. They would decide to build Shrines to their gods or small churches, and work on the populace until some religious fervor can get stirred up enough that its not a bunch of people deciding on gods like their a sports team.

This could be true, but paladins are also emissaries of their faith and their church, or can be. And religious power is political power and vice versa, and a temple means influence! So while they will surely conduct honorably and without offending the other, they might decide that it's important for their church to have an outpost just here.

Kyberwulf
2012-06-23, 07:53 PM
Religious power is power, true. Only if you have people that subscribe to said faith. From this town, full of people that don't really care WHO is in the temple, just that there is someone there... There isn't much influence there.

The way this is presented, its more like some reality show for npcs. WHO Wants to be my Patron Deity.

GolemsVoice
2012-06-23, 08:01 PM
I'd watch that!

But it's an outpost of the particular faith, and it displays it's icons and is home to it's priests. Even if the people are mostly uncaring at the MOMENT, they can be much better convertet with an actual temple nearby. It's a visible symbol of the deities might. Also a convenient place to hous paladins or other religious (and fighting) orders.


And I wouldn't say that the populace doesn't care, they just don't have a strong preference. Both Pelor and Heironeous are sensible gods to worship, and are maybe equally revered among the people, so they're not sure whom they prefer. It's also very much possible that most of the world aren't truly enthusiastic for one deity, that's for paladins and clerics. They know and worship the gods that are typical for their country, but have no true preference. If they could, they'd probably build both, but right now, there's only money for one.

Jon_Dahl
2012-06-24, 12:43 AM
I'd watch that!

Me too! And I don't even have a TV :smallsmile:

Lot of great advice here. I'm having a lot of inspiration! Keep them coming please! Some of you want the paladins to avoid any competition but how fun is that? I'm not saying that they have be reckless or silly about it (eventhough I smiled a lot to the idea of two paladins carrying firewood) but they don't have to avoid competing against one another. Actually if they get all boring - thus making the game boring too - a priest of Zilchus (god of merchants and money) will come and simply convince everybody that he and his deity deserve the right. And then we can move on.

I'm thinking that the paladins will have series of competitions. So far religious debate, jousting and running contest (I think the mile run works the best in this case) sound really valid. All the ideas are great so far are great, really.
However, I got really excited about the prospect of paladin wrestling contest. Would I go too far if I said that this particular village has a tradition in oil wrestling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2keIfaPHgw

navar100
2012-06-24, 12:25 PM
Why would representatives of two Morally good faiths want to compete like that.

From the way it sounds, neither side has much footing in the community. Why would a community just ambivalently decided which god to follow. You might as just say, "Whoever Churches colors best go with my Sunday dress, should win."

I think the Paladins would get together with the heads of the community, and discuss which was more needed in and around the community. Is it a farming community? Are there lots of Brigands and Highwaymen afoot? Why would a town just arbitrarily just go... "hey you know what we need.. a temple.. Brookeston down the road got one..and shelbyville up the river got a new one too... we need one... who cares which god it's for.. HEY you know what.. Pelor and Herinoious are in season ... lets go with them." Building temples is costly, and time consuming.

The paladins themselves, should find the lack of faith, disturbing in the least. I don't think they would want to Build an Temple to their gods, that their congregation didn't even have enough conviction to build the temple to service their deity.

I think the way it would go. They would decide to build Shrines to their gods or small churches, and work on the populace until some religious fervor can get stirred up enough that its not a bunch of people deciding on gods like their a sports team.

If you want to have two Paladins square off, just send them both on a quest. Whoever wins, doesn't trivialize the sanctity of their gods or religion.

This. If they were to agree to the competition they'd just be emulating Kord, opening up another can of worms. While one temple dedicated to both gods is tempting there is risk of religious war among the populace to do so, not because of the faiths themselves but that the populace didn't have the convictions of the faiths in the first place. Once "true believers" sprout among them they will try to stamp out the other.

Split the temple money to build two shrines, emphasizing the common bond of Good. The paladins agree among themselves that each shall go to one of their respective large temples in the same city to request one cleric go to the village to become new shepherds of the flock, together.

LibraryOgre
2012-06-24, 12:25 PM
I am reminded of how Athens became known as Athens; Athena and Poseidon vied for it, and both gave gifts to the city to become its patron. Poseidon gave a spring of salt water, while Athena gave an olive tree. The more useful olive tree was deemed the better gift, and so Athena came to protect Athens (which it needed, having spurned Poseidon).

A good method might be for the town to hold a contest between the two paladins to do something useful to the town... but it's up to the paladins to decide what is useful. Give them until the next full moon.

Vladislav
2012-06-25, 08:29 PM
Uhm, yes, that actually are big news. Paladins are not Clerics. They shouldnt be devoted to a specific church.
In this situation the Paladins would evaluate the most beneficial decision. If neither temple has any significant advantages over the other, they would flip a coin or something. Or do some other stuff like: "Run 10 kilometers in full armor, than swim 100 meters (also in full armor) to this little island in the lake. Who gets there first, wins."
That's a trick to solve the problem by making both Paladins drown and not have to build a temple, is it not?

Full Plate armor: ACP -6
Double ACP for Swim: -12
Ranks in Swim: probably 0. No one takes ranks in Swim anyway.
Ability bonus: let's be generous and say +4.

Total Swim modifier: -8

Swim in calm water: DC 10. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater.

The Paladins will need to roll 14+ (35%) just to avoid drowning.

Dark Elf Bard
2012-06-25, 11:48 PM
I have an idea.

Both gods are Good, correct?

So just have the temple be honoring the tolerance and friendship of two religions. I.e., both gods can be worrshipped.

Done and done.

Aron Times
2012-06-26, 01:01 AM
What about a body massage contest? Gives a new meaning to Lay on Hands. Have the young women line up and judge the paladins based on the amount of pleasure they provide. With their hands.

erikun
2012-06-26, 01:48 AM
I would recommend a three-part contest: Jousting, theological debate, and a quest. The first would highlight the paladin's martial strength, the second their religious strength, and the third their practical strength. You could easily make all three into meaningful contests, giving PCs (assuming any PCs are involved) time to prepare and use strategies for each part, including running off together to complete whatever quest is laid out.

All three sound very appropriate for several good-aligned characters to participate in, as well.

Xefas
2012-06-26, 03:05 AM
Paladins actually have an ancient and cherished tradition for these kinds of instances, which they have affectionately named "Holy Horse" after their own magical horse based class feature.

First, you flip a coin to see who goes first.

The Paladin that goes first declares a heroic feat they are going to perform. Examples might include defeating a band of brigands unarmed and blindfolded, hurling a particularly large stone across a river, hitting a target from 100 yards away, or convincing one of the town drunks to take up sobriety and become a priest.

If he fails, he gets a letter.

If he succeeds, the other Paladin must replicate the feat. If the second Paladin fails, he gets a letter.

It then becomes the second Paladin's turn to select a feat. And so on, until one of the Paladins has collected an "H", "O", "R", "S", and "E", and becomes the loser. In this case, the winner would get their temple built.