Removing SLAs from a target

[Alleran]

As the topic. What methods exist to rip a SLA (either temporarily or permanently) away from a target creature? For supernatural effects there's either Ability Rip or Trait Removal, from Serpent Kingdoms, but does a similar spell or effect exist to cancel out a SLA?

Note: I'm aware that Manipulate Form can add or remove SLAs, but the target would have to be a Scaled One native to Toril for that to work. Since I'm looking for a more general effect that could be employed against other targets (particularly things such as demons or devils), it isn't any use here, so the Manipulate Form ability is out of the running.

EDIT: To clarify further, I'm looking for a specific means of removing a SLA, either temporarily or permanently, from a target creature, in the same vein as the above two spells that I mentioned from Serpent Kingdoms. Not simply blocking a SLA with antimagic or similar.

[Kamai]

Spellthief 5 can temporarily remove a spell-like ability and use it himself.

[Arcane_Secrets]

You could antimagic ray them (from Spell Compendium) and block their abilities to use spells/SLAs/supernatural abilities. It's general, but it will work.

[HunterOfJello]

Sunder to chop off some creature's body parts. (Ex: Beholder eyestalks)

[Alleran]

Spellthief 5 can temporarily remove a spell-like ability and use it himself.
I'm looking through the WotC excerpt detailing the ability (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a)), and it doesn't appear that you're actually taking the SLA itself, just one of the uses of it. I'm looking for methods to do the former.

RE: The uses of antimagic ray/field/aura, those (again) don't actually remove a SLA, just prevent the use of it. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, I'll edit it to be more specific.

[sreservoir]

what difference is there between removing an ability and preventing its use, other than in interactions with qualifying for things?

[Alleran]

what difference is there between removing an ability and preventing its use, other than in interactions with qualifying for things?
Partly because I like the concept of actually removing abilities rather than simply blocking them, partly because antimagic is simpler to avoid than just having the ability straight-up removed (although stacking one on top of the other is even better).

And, I suppose, it's partly because I was flipping through Serpent Kingdoms and looking at the Trait Removal/Ability Rip spells, and wondered if it could actually be done with SLAs as well (I've since found the "Expunge the Supernatural" spell in Tome of Magic, but that's also for supernatural abilities, not SLAs). I couldn't think of any way to do it, so bringing the question here was the next logical step.

It's puzzling if it can't be done at all, while supernatural and even extraordinary abilities can be shut down. My general expectation would be that (Ex) abilities are the hardest to kill, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Arcanist]

Dragon Magazine issue #336 page 106 has a feat called Pressure point strike. Its Monk exclusive and allows you to access the Celestial Dragon Pressure point which can remove spellcasting, SLA and the such for 1d4 rounds. When used on an ally it removes all negative effects upon the target as if a Greater Dispel Magic upon them.

This came up in the Amon thread and was revealed by Waker :smallsmile:

[Alleran]

Dragon Magazine issue #336 page 106 has a feat called Pressure point strike. Its Monk exclusive and allows you to access the Celestial Dragon Pressure point which can remove spellcasting, SLA and the such for 1d4 rounds. When used on an ally it removes all negative effects upon the target as if a Greater Dispel Magic upon them.
As funny as it would be for the ability to only be available to monks, the CDP still only prevents the target from using a SLA or casting a spell ("Striking here prevents an enemy from casting spells or using spell-like abilities..."). It doesn't actually remove them.

I'm starting to wonder if it is indeed possible at all to strip away SLAs from a target (minus the aforementioned Manipulate Form). The options are often obscure, and even then seem to just remove uses or prevent it from being used.

[sreservoir]

I ... think you're making a distinction without a difference.

what's the actual concept you want?

[whibla]

If you play magic / psionic transparency you might have a case for the 9th level(!) power Apopsi to do something along these lines. While it states that it removes 1d4 powers I'm not sure I can see a huge distinction (other than a strict RAW reading) between powers and SLA's. Apopsi is based on the 2nd ed. Psychic Surgery (afaict), which certainly had the potential to do things like you're looking for, which is another reason I mention it.

There used to be a spell called Mindwipe that did something similar, but removed casting ability, irrc, but I can't remember offhand where it existed, or even in which edition. Sorry.

[Tyndmyr]

Hmmm, well, there's always Illithid Savant, yes?

That said, devouring the brain of someone usually makes this less important.

[Alleran]

I ... think you're making a distinction without a difference.

what's the actual concept you want?
The concept of, rather than simply blocking abilities (whether they be supernatural, extraordinary or spell-like), actually removing them from a target wholesale, either temporarily or permanently. Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities are fairly easy - there exist multiple options for (Su) and at least one for (Ex), so they're dealt with. SLAs are the third hurdle. Spellcasting would be fourth, if I can get that far (artifact-disjunction is the only way I know of at present, though a mindrape could do the trick if rewriting memories/experiences includes levels).

And partly because I don't know if it can actually be done, as I said. So I'm interested in seeing if others know a way that I haven't found.

[Morph Bark]

Return to Nature, a Druid spell from Magic of Eberron (iirc) can do this, among other things.

[Alleran]

Return to Nature, a Druid spell from Magic of Eberron (iirc) can do this, among other things.
Reading it now (it's in the ECS, though, not MoE), and I think it might. It removes the use of supernatural/spell-like abilities, but it also states that lost (Su) and (Sp) abilities return after 24 hours (not uses of them, the abilities themselves) and also uses "loss of abilities" with regard to the Fortitude save to resist. So it's a bit hazy, but I'll take it to mean that they actually lose the abilities. It seems more in keeping with the spell's design. Annoying to get, though - it's a 7th level Druid spell, but you need the Gatekeeper feat - and somewhat random (outsiders with no elemental subtype, for example, lose 2d4 abilities, chosen randomly).

That's one. So right now I've got:

Supernatural: Trait Removal, Ability Rip, Return to Nature, Expunge the Supernatural
Extraordinary: Trait Removal
Spell-like: Return to Nature
Spellcasting: Artifact+Disjunction, Mindrape (rewrite memories/experiences?)

Does anybody know of other methods besides those?

[Kuulvheysoon]

A bit of a detour, but one could PAO the creature into a Karsite (ToM), and then they'd lose the ability to use their SLAs/spellcasting for as long as the effect lasted.