[PF] Words of Power Spellslinger Build Help

[Tokuhara]

Just spoke with my to-be GM (he's off playing Army for 2 weeks), and he said yes to guns in-game. So I thought to myself, "Toku, how can I make a powerful gun-user who can not overshadow the party?" So I did some research on firearms-based classes and actually came across Spellslinger, the Wizard from the School of the Gun. Now, I've also read that the class loses too much to be effective, but then I thought, "Hey, isn't Wizard Tier-1? Losing a little bit isn't going to completely cripple them, if you do it right." So then I read Words of Power and saw that many of the spells that Spellslinger loses thanks to the "Selected" target word.

So now, mighty Playground, filled with so many Munchkins, I layeth my request to build the...

Ultimate Spellslinger

Now, I have looked far and wide for a definative guide for them, and have come up empty, so I have decided to post a decent Spellslinger build.

The build so far (sadly, incomplete)

Race: Human
Class: Spellslinger 20 (unless someone can find a better option)

Feats:
1: Gunsmith (free), Amature Gunslinger: Deadeye, Meta Word Mastery: Manifestation (Human Bonus)
3: Extra Grit
5: Eschew Materials
7-19: Metamagic Feats that don't interfere with Meta Words and/or PBS chain and Weapon Focus/Improved Critical (Ray and Musket)

Spells: Oppose Divination (Blasphemy, but we're talking a weirdo who uses a GUN as his focus, not a God Wizard), Abjuration (You will be effectively sniping. No sense in being Mage Armored out the wazoo if nobody will be getting near you), Any others but Enchantment, Necromancy, and Evocation (for once, Evocation is decent, since most of the Evocation words are in the Selected/Line/Cone applicable, you can gun-cast them with a boosted DC. Because you can now make a Charm spell a ray, Enchantment is good, as is Necromancy's Debuff abilities. And again, all with a boosted DC = Enchantment bonus on your Arcane Gun and a sacrificed spell slot for Mage Bullet.

Weapon: Musket with a Far-Reaching Sight - God forbid that you need to actually SHOOT someone (with your poor BAB, you may wince at this) but here's the thing: Deadshot Deed means you can burn one of your Grit (yes, you have grit) to "reach out and touch someone," and with the Far-Reaching Sight, you can spend a full-round action (which if you are in the 15 minute adventuring day and run out of spells), you can replicate Deadshot. Plus, 1d12+Enchantment+Dex isn't all bad.

My questions:

1. Does Improved Critical (Arcane Gun) and (Ray) stack?
2. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks y'all

[grarrrg]

Race: Human
Class: Spellslinger 20 (unless someone can find a better option)

Feats:
1: Gunsmith (free), Amature Gunslinger: Deadeye, Meta Word Mastery: Manifestation (Human Bonus)
3: Extra Grit
5: Eschew Materials
7-19: Metamagic Feats that don't interfere with Meta Words and/or PBS chain and Weapon Focus/Improved Critical (Ray and Musket)


Should shove Opposition Research (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/opposition-research) in there at some point. it "un-bans" one of your schools, and can be taken as a Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries).


You may also consider just taking 1 level of Gunslinger for an 'actual' Grit pool, and all 1st level deeds *cough* Quick Clear *cough*.

[Tokuhara]

Should shove Opposition Research (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/opposition-research) in there at some point. it "un-bans" one of your schools, and can be taken as a Feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries).


You may also consider just taking 1 level of Gunslinger for an 'actual' Grit pool, and all 1st level deeds *cough* Quick Clear *cough*.

I like Opposition Research, but a level of gunslinger puts me on Sorcerer Progression. That, and no Gunslinger Archetypes really seem Front-Loaded enough to warrant a dip for me.

[grarrrg]

Does Improved Critical (Arcane Gun) and (Ray) stack
From the Feat description:
"You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack"
So you wouldn't get 17-20.
But you could still take both, one would apply to the Gun's Damage, and the other to the Spell. If you only took one, you could have a situation where rolling a 19, the Gun gets a Critical, but the Spell does not (or vice versa).


I like Opposition Research, but a level of gunslinger puts me on Sorcerer Progression. That, and no Gunslinger Archetypes really seem Front-Loaded enough to warrant a dip for me.

First off, You NEED Rapid Reload Feat, otherwise you'll waste half your turns reloading the stupid gun (Full Round for Musket, Standard with Feat OR Cartridges, Move with both).


Musket Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/musket-master) would have:
Deadeye Deed
Quick Clear Deed
Steady Aim Deed
Rapid Reload Feat
Actual Grit Pool

While this does cost you a Caster level, it does save you a few feats. And both Firearms and Magic like having a lot of feats.
You don't need Amateur Gunslinger or Rapid Reload. And depending on your WIS score (and/or Equipment), you may not need Extra Grit either.
And yes, Steady Aim is a little redundant with Deadeye, but they are different enough that one may be better than the other, depending on the situation. And, if necessary, they Stack.

[Tokuhara]

From the Feat description:
"You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack"
So you wouldn't get 17-20.
But you could still take both, one would apply to the Gun's Damage, and the other to the Spell. If you only took one, you could have a situation where rolling a 19, the Gun gets a Critical, but the Spell does not (or vice versa).



First off, You NEED Rapid Reload Feat, otherwise you'll waste half your turns reloading the stupid gun (Full Round for Musket, Standard with Feat OR Cartridges, Move with both).


Musket Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/musket-master) would have:
Deadeye Deed
Quick Clear Deed
Steady Aim Deed
Rapid Reload Feat
Actual Grit Pool

While this does cost you a Caster level, it does save you a few feats. And both Firearms and Magic like having a lot of feats.
You don't need Amateur Gunslinger or Rapid Reload. And depending on your WIS score (and/or Equipment), you may not need Extra Grit either.
And yes, Steady Aim is a little redundant with Deadeye, but they are different enough that one may be better than the other, depending on the situation. And, if necessary, they Stack.

The gun is more of my Backup Plan, not my main plan of attack, but a 1 level dip into Gunslinger (perhaps Musket Master) could benefit me. Again, as a wizard, WIS is essentially a low-end stat (not quite Dump, but don't need it to be astronomical). I just wish there was an "Extra Deed" feat...

[grarrrg]

The gun is more of my Backup Plan, not my main plan of attack, but a 1 level dip into Gunslinger (perhaps Musket Master) could benefit me. Again, as a wizard, WIS is essentially a low-end stat (not quite Dump, but don't need it to be astronomical). I just wish there was an "Extra Deed" feat...

If you DO take the level of Gunslinger, then a Headband of Mental Prowess would be handy, giving your INT (spells) and WIS (Grit) a boost.

Agreed on the "Extra Deed" thing. Currently the only Non-Gunslinger class that can get Gunslinger Deeds is Trophy Hunter Ranger, and they only get 1 Deed every 4 levels.
(And I know the Amateur Gunslinger feat gives access to a Deed, but it can only be taken once, and only gives you _1_ 1st level Deed)

(note: was originally an "edit" to previous post, but it became....long-winded)

In either case, Gunslinger or not, you should get Quick Clear, because Spellslinger's come with this little rules gem:

If any of the spells’ attack rolls result in a natural 1 (a misfire), or a natural 20 is rolled on any saving throw made against the spell by a target (an overload), the arcane gun gains the broken condition. If the arcane gun already has the broken condition, the gun explodes.
Musket's start with a Misfire value of 2 (10% failure), adding Alchemical Cartridges to speed up reload speed boosts this to 3 (15% failure). And then, if the target makes a Save, that's effectively another 1, giving you a final "whoopsie" chance of 4 (20%*).
Those are not good odds.
Your gun WILL misfire, and without Quick Clear, you either better have a spare Gun, or start burning spell Slots to fix it. Mending takes WAY too long (and since you traded Cantips it's a 1st level spell anyway), and Make Whole is a 2nd level spell.

*MATH TIME! Technically your final Misfire chance for shooting a Spell allowing a Save is 19.25%, but given the prevalence of d20's in the game, 20% is acceptably close.

[Tokuhara]

My biggest reason I love Spellslinger over every other Archtype is that it ACTUALLY WORKS (Holy Gun is a FAIL, Musketeer is meh vs. a Real Gunslinger, Trophy Hunter is Gunslinger Lite). Plus, with WoP, Spellslinger becomes this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqY4x8RtrU4&feature=related).

And now I see that 1 level of Gunslinger wouldn't totally screw me over. Only partially. But again, "I'm Tier 1, so 1 level in anything isn't going to weaken me that badly"

Edit: Made this poster for all who nay-say the Spellslinger:

http://media.fakeposters.com/results/2012/06/25/fb6cl9stiz.jpg

[grarrrg]

Holy Gun is a FAIL, Musketeer is meh vs. a Real Gunslinger, Trophy Hunter is Gunslinger Lite

Holy Gun, as far as being a "Gunslinger" goes, I agree. But as far as "Paladin Options", it is quite decent (and they get Deed access, and the only other 'natural' Grit pool, but not until level _11_. Ugh.)

Musketeer is agreed as "meh". But they do count as Fighter levels for Fighter-only feats (not the best benefit, but still handy).
Musketeer gets better when combined with the Luring Archetype, gaining the ability to target Touch AC up to 2 increments away (always active, but only works on "highest Bab attack").
A 3 or 4 level dip in Luring Musketeer is quite nice for otherwise straight-Gunslinger builds.

Trophy Hunter is the next best thing to actual levels of Gunslinger. And gets the "Touch AC up to 2 increments" thing when shooting his Favored Enemies. (Luring + Trophy Hunter = 3 Increments! but only on the Highest Bab attack vs. Favored Enemy)

[Tokuhara]

Holy Gun, as far as being a "Gunslinger" goes, I agree. But as far as "Paladin Options", it is quite decent (and they get Deed access, and the only other 'natural' Grit pool, but not until level _11_. Ugh.)

Musketeer is agreed as "meh". But they do count as Fighter levels for Fighter-only feats (not the best benefit, but still handy).
Musketeer gets better when combined with the Luring Archetype, gaining the ability to target Touch AC up to 2 increments away (always active, but only works on "highest Bab attack").
A 3 or 4 level dip in Luring Musketeer is quite nice for otherwise straight-Gunslinger builds.

Trophy Hunter is the next best thing to actual levels of Gunslinger. And gets the "Touch AC up to 2 increments" thing when shooting his Favored Enemies. (Luring + Trophy Hunter = 3 Increments! but only on the Highest Bab attack vs. Favored Enemy)

Holy Gun gimps the Smite. Not worth it.
Luring Musketeer is clever, and when paired can beat a wizard (luring the wizard into making melee attacks back and forth between the two)
Trophy Hunter, again, is Gunslinger Lite. It's good nonetheless, but it's underwhelming compared to Gunslinger levels.

To be honest, even Gunslinger is underwhelming without an Archtype. Pistolero and Musket Master are both really well-designed, Mysterious Stranger is a dip-friendly class (as in, if you're playing CHA-focused and want to use guns, a couple levels in MS Gunslinger is good), and Gun Tank is quite powerful, especially when coupled with Pistolero (BIG AC: Tower Shield + Fullplate, Deflection, Fortification, and an the ability to have a powerhouse 1 handed weapon [Dragon Pistol being my personal choice]). "Core" Gunslinger is kinda meh honestly.

So back to my Spellslinger build: Spellslinger 1/Musket Master 1/Spellslinger 18 is the numbers so far.

And a quick question on scatterguns: Can one "improvise" ammo, such as rocks/glass/metal shards/etc if one is out of pellets, but not powder? I understand there would be a damage reduction (possibly one stage), but this sometimes happened (blunderbusses filled with broken glass, cannons packed with silverware, even punt guns filled with rocks)

[grarrrg]

Holy Gun gimps the Smite. Not worth it.

I wouldn't say it Gimps it. I would say it changes the main use altogether.
It 'regenerates' uses, as any Critical Hit/Kill Shot regains 1 Grit, so it becomes MUCH more useful for taking out Hordes of Evil, as opposed to the normal "Boss-Fight" Smite.
While it gains no To-Hit bonus, it gets BOTH CHA and Pal-Levels to damage vs. Evil (Pal x2 in the case of Evil Outsider/Dragon/Undead).
AND you can't overlook this:
"Regardless of the target, smiting shot automatically bypasses any DR the creature might have."



To be honest, even Gunslinger is underwhelming without an Archtype.

Agreed. There are certain times when you are better off with Plain Gunslinger, but it doesn't happen often.

[Tokuhara]

I wouldn't say it Gimps it. I would say it changes the main use altogether.
It 'regenerates' uses, as any Critical Hit/Kill Shot regains 1 Grit, so it becomes MUCH more useful for taking out Hordes of Evil, as opposed to the normal "Boss-Fight" Smite.
While it gains no To-Hit bonus, it gets BOTH CHA and Pal-Levels to damage vs. Evil (Pal x2 in the case of Evil Outsider/Dragon/Undead).
AND you can't overlook this:
"Regardless of the target, smiting shot automatically bypasses any DR the creature might have."

True, but Holy Paladin doesn't get the option that 'Slinger gets to get Dex to all attacks, so for a gun-toting Paladin, it's meh



Agreed. There are certain times when you are better off with Plain Gunslinger, but it doesn't happen often.

True. If you ever want a smei-working class, go ahead. Otherwise, specialize in one gun and go crazy

[grarrrg]

And a quick question on scatterguns: Can one "improvise" ammo, such as rocks/glass/metal shards/etc if one is out of pellets, but not powder? I understand there would be a damage reduction (possibly one stage), but this sometimes happened (blunderbusses filled with broken glass, cannons packed with silverware, even punt guns filled with rocks)

I'd use the basic rules for Improvised Weapons, -4 To-Hit, damage as suitable per size of the object.
Since Pellets are small anyway, the Size/damage should not be a problem, so long as it is "shootable" enough.

The Mythbusters even did an episode on "non-standard Cannon ammunition".
Long-story short: If it comes out of a Cannon, you will be probably be dead.


True, but Holy Paladin doesn't get the option that 'Slinger gets to get Dex to all attacks, so for a gun-toting Paladin, it's meh

Oh, I agree with you that Gunslinger > Holy Gun, as far as Firearms are concerned. All day/all opponent Dex-to-damage is hard to top (and/or 1-Grit Cha to all damage for 1 round is better than 1-Grit Cha/Level for 1 Evil only shot)

But if you decide you want to play a Paladin, then Holy Gun is a perfectly valid option, and in my opinion is one of the BETTER Paladin Archetypes.
You still have all your Auras/Lay-on-Hands/Channel/Spells/Divine Grace/etc... You only trade Smite Evil for 'Different' Smite Evil, lose Detect Evil, and have to Bond with your Weapon instead of a Mount.
The loss of Mount is the biggest, but still acceptable.

[Tokuhara]

That is true for Holy Gun, but again, I need to work on my particular 'Slinger, so let's re-focus

[grarrrg]

That is true for Holy Gun, but again, I need to work on my particular 'Slinger, so let's re-focus

Wait...we were doing what again?


Anyhoo...let's see what's left,
The class levels are pretty solid, the only PrC worth looking at is good ole Eldritch Knight, outside of that there isn't much that would really help.

All Wizard choices have been made or traded away with the Archetype.

Half your feats are decided, and you said you wanted "Caster Prime, Shoot Second", so it's safe to say most of the rest will be put towards Casting/General.

I guess that mostly leaves Race.
Need/Want one with +DEX, +INT, and/or +WIS.
CHA and STR are the go-to dump stats (unless you want/need STR, but still not worth picking a Race for).

Human, +2 Any, Bonus Feat, can probably use Favored Class bonus to snag extra Words if your DM is stingy with them.

Elf, +2 DEX, +2 INT, -2 CON penalty hurts, but easily outweighed by getting boosts to your 2 primary stats.

Drow Noble (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/monsters-as-pcs#TOC-Drow-Noble)...I think we all know the likely hood of THIS being allowed...

Goblin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/monsters-as-pcs#TOC-Goblin), -2 STR, +4 DEX, -2 CHA, between their Dex and Small Size, they have a +3 To-Hit with Firearms/Spells. And while they have no INT/WIS bonus, they also don't have a penalty.

Ratfolk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/monsters-as-pcs#TOC-Ratfolk) -2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 INT, Small size, overall probably a better choice than Goblin.

Tiefling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/monsters-as-pcs#TOC-Tiefling) +2 DEX, +2 INT, -2 CHA give them the best arrangement of stats. Cold/Electric/Fire Resists are VERY nice. Downside is that they are only slightly more allowable than Drow Nobles.

[Khosan]

If you can use a 3rd party race, Blues (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/blues-psionics-unleashed) are a pretty good choice. +2 Dex and Int, -2 Str, Small size, no loss of speed, good racial skill bonuses, and you'll never need to eat or drink. Has a pseudo Cha-penalty, but otherwise no real downside aside from looking like a Goblin.

[Tokuhara]

Going Human. Bonus feat trumps racial features. Unless Tiefling or Goblin brings much more to the table

[grarrrg]

Going Human. Bonus feat trumps racial features. Unless Tiefling or Goblin brings much more to the table

Humans are...Humans.
Medium Size, Bonus feat, +1 Skill/level. Alt Favored Class bonus of +1 Spell Known (Word in this case, must be less than your highest possible).
As far as alternate Traits go, the only one worth looking at is Heart of the Fields, you lose +1 Skill, and gain a Bonus on a Craft Skill equal to 1/2 your level. Useful if you plan on Crafting heavily, not so much otherwise.

Goblins do not have a bonus to INT, but the large bonus to DEX combined with Small size gives them a huge (comparative) accuracy boost over going Human.
Darkvision 60ft., and despite Small they still have 30ft. movement.

Tieflings also have Darkvision, and 1/day Darkness ability. The stats are Resists are awesome.


My pick overall would be Tiefling. Cold/Elec/Fire Resist 5 makes you practically immune to them at low levels, and saves you Spells/Equipment at later levels. And having bonuses to your 2 main stats, with a penalty going to your dump stat is about the best you can hope for (barring Drow Noble anyway...)

[Tokuhara]

Minus that if I even dip a non-core class level, I have to be a core race (DM's rules)

[grarrrg]

Minus that if I even dip a non-core class level, I have to be a core race (DM's rules)

Human it is then!

[Tokuhara]

Gravy.

Now for the Words themselves

[grarrrg]

Gravy.

Now for the Words themselves

Well, I'm out.
I only know the basics of Word magic.

But given the limited Words available (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/words-by-class/sorcerer-wizard-word-list) (only Ultimate Magic currently has Words),
AND your 4 opposed schools,
AND needing a fair number of "Shoot-able" spells to make the whole Spellslinger thing worthwhile...
I'd say your "options" are fairly few.

Also, you're a Human Wizard, between Favored class, and 'finding' Words to add to your book, you should be good to go.

[Tokuhara]

Okay.

Small Party Question:

One of our players is going to play a Grippli (Frogfolk) Empyreal Knight Paladin.

He wants to emulate Frog from Chrono Trigger (and honestly, I can't blame him), but wants his Divine Bond to be his weapon. How does Empyreal Knight stack with this choice. From the wording, he gets bupkiss for choosing the blade (in fact, it seems he is pidgeon-holed into the Mount, which he thinks is "Un-Frog-like." If it doesn't stack, is there an Archetype that buffs this odd choice, or is he royally screwed?

[grarrrg]

One of our players is going to play a Grippli (Frogfolk) Empyreal Knight Paladin.

He wants to emulate Frog from Chrono Trigger (and honestly, I can't blame him), but wants his Divine Bond to be his weapon. How does Empyreal Knight stack with this choice. From the wording, he gets bupkiss for choosing the blade (in fact, it seems he is pidgeon-holed into the Mount, which he thinks is "Un-Frog-like." If it doesn't stack, is there an Archetype that buffs this odd choice, or is he royally screwed?

Empyreal Knight only gets to Bond with a Mount.
Options are choose a Different Archetype/Oath, OR
Since Paladin's have good Charisma anyway, take Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) > Arcane Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/arcane-bloodline) and you gain Arcane Bond (at level -2).

[Tokuhara]

Empyreal Knight only gets to Bond with a Mount.
Options are choose a Different Archetype/Oath, OR
Since Paladin's have good Charisma anyway, take Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) > Arcane Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/arcane-bloodline) and you gain Arcane Bond (at level -2).

Arcane Bond. To a Sword. MADNESS!!!

However, quite brilliant. Also, just because he has the mount doesn't mean he has to use it. What other archetype options are good for a 2hf small frog paladin?

[grarrrg]

Arcane Bond. To a Sword. MADNESS!!!

However, quite brilliant. Also, just because he has the mount doesn't mean he has to use it. What other archetype options are good for a 2hf small frog paladin?

The best Frog-ish Paladin archetypes (fit the Character AND can Bond with Weapon) are Straight Paladin, Oath-Savagery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-against-savagery), Oath-Loyalty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-loyalty), or Oath-Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance)

Savagery loses Divine Grace, but gain spend Smite uses to gain +5ft. Reach instead, and does extra damage on AoO's vs. Evil Humanoids (Magus!!) at 11th.

Loyalty trades Smite Evil for a "Bodyguard" type ability.

Vengeance (MAGUS!!) trades Channel Energy for the ability to spend Lay on Hands uses for more Smite Evil uses. And at 11th, can spend a use of Smite Evil to give nearby allies the ability to (limitedly) Smite Evil.


Loyalty can combine with either Savagery or Vengeance if desired, but Savagery can NOT combine with Vengeance.

[Tokuhara]

The best Frog-ish Paladin archetypes (fit the Character AND can Bond with Weapon) are Straight Paladin, Oath-Savagery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-against-savagery), Oath-Loyalty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-loyalty), or Oath-Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance)

Savagery loses Divine Grace, but gain spend Smite uses to gain +5ft. Reach instead, and does extra damage on AoO's vs. Evil Humanoids (Magus!!) at 11th.

Loyalty trades Smite Evil for a "Bodyguard" type ability.

Vengeance (MAGUS!!) trades Channel Energy for the ability to spend Lay on Hands uses for more Smite Evil uses. And at 11th, can spend a use of Smite Evil to give nearby allies the ability to (limitedly) Smite Evil.


Loyalty can combine with either Savagery or Vengeance if desired, but Savagery can NOT combine with Vengeance.

Why would you combine Loyalty with say Savagery or Vengeance?

[grarrrg]

Why would you combine Loyalty with say Savagery or Vengeance?

Well, Frog is Loyal to the Royal Family and whatnot as a Knight of the Realm (or whatever), and he seeks Vengeance on Magus for his transgressions.

Likewise, he may think of Magus as a Savage, thus he'd be Loyal to the Royals, and against Magus's Savagery.

[Tokuhara]

Well, Frog is Loyal to the Royal Family and whatnot as a Knight of the Realm (or whatever), and he seeks Vengeance on Magus for his transgressions.

Likewise, he may think of Magus as a Savage, thus he'd be Loyal to the Royals, and against Magus's Savagery.

I meant purely on a mechanical point. Loyalty drops Smite, and both Savagery and Vengeance buff smite.

[grarrrg]

I meant purely on a mechanical point. Loyalty drops Smite, and both Savagery and Vengeance buff smite.

Wow... did not notice that...
Maybe if you ask really nice, you can use them for more uses of "not smite"??

[Tokuhara]

Wow... did not notice that...
Maybe if you ask really nice, you can use them for more uses of "not smite"??

I suggested to him to go pure Vengeance

[Chained Birds]

I suggested to him to go pure Vengeance

VENGENCE!!!

For a more constructive post:
The-Mage-King's guide to word spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205030).
Here's some good info on Words and Meta-Words if you want a second opinion on certain Words and stuff.

[Tokuhara]

Thanks for the help with WoP guide CB

I'm fighting to get spellslinger allowed now, with a new GM

[NightbringerGGZ]

Have you considered an Eldritch Knight build? You can take the Magical Knack trait for a bonus +2 Caster levels (total caster level can't exceed your character level) and you only lose 2 caster levels from 1 level of Gunslinger and 10 levels of Eldritch Knight. You'll get fewer free spells known, but you as a Wizard you can pay to learn spells and as a Word Caster you don't need to know nearly as many anyway.

I'd go Wizard > Gunslinger > Wizard x 4 > Eldritch Knight x 10 > Wizard x 4. This way you can use your favored bonus for free 8th level words at levels 18-20 and you get some free level 9 words as well. You'll still have to pay gold for 3rd through 7th level words, but that isn't a huge deal since you need fewer words when you're building your own spells.

For Feats I would grab Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot at level 1, and then Rapid Reload at level 3 if you don't go with the Musket Master archetype. You'll want to Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in at least one school of magic, and you'll want to grab Opposition Research at level 9. Arcane Strike is another good feat to pick up. You'll also have 3 free combat feats to pick up, so you might want to grab Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus with your gun.

Overall you'll wind up with a really good mix of spells. You can combine words to wind up with some nice blaster spells that also give you some measure of battlefield control. You'll have pretty high save DCs on those spells, so when you use them they'll usually be pretty effective. You'll have 3/4 progression on your BAB, and you'll be hitting at touch AC anyway. You'll also have spare feats to boost up your combat ability, so you can do some decent ranged damage. Then to round it all off, you'll have a ton of skill points thanks to your high Int and plenty of class skills to use them in thanks to your Gunslinger level.

It makes for a pretty fun blaster build.

[grarrrg]

AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!! THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE THREAD!!!
ABORT! ABORT!!


You can take the Magical Knack trait for a bonus +2 Caster levels (total caster level can't exceed your character level) and you only lose 2 caster levels from 1 level of Gunslinger and 10 levels of Eldritch Knight.

Has potential.


I'd go Wizard > Gunslinger > Wizard x 4 > Eldritch Knight x 10 > Wizard x 4....you'll want to grab Opposition Research at level 9

Opposition Research requires "Wizard level 9", not Caster level (although you 'might' be able to sweet talk your DM into allowing Caster level). So with Eldritch Knight, he'd have to delay taking some EK levels to finish off his Wizard.
I am aware that EK levels stack with caster levels for Feat pre-reqs, but Opposition Research is an "Arcane Discovery" that can be taken as a feat.


might want to grab Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus with your gun.

I'd say maybe Weapon Focus, but skip the other two, because he is mainly using the Gun to shoot spells, so the gun damage is not a large factor.

[Tokuhara]

Have you considered an Eldritch Knight build? You can take the Magical Knack trait for a bonus +2 Caster levels (total caster level can't exceed your character level) and you only lose 2 caster levels from 1 level of Gunslinger and 10 levels of Eldritch Knight. You'll get fewer free spells known, but you as a Wizard you can pay to learn spells and as a Word Caster you don't need to know nearly as many anyway.

I'd go Wizard > Gunslinger > Wizard x 4 > Eldritch Knight x 10 > Wizard x 4. This way you can use your favored bonus for free 8th level words at levels 18-20 and you get some free level 9 words as well. You'll still have to pay gold for 3rd through 7th level words, but that isn't a huge deal since you need fewer words when you're building your own spells.

For Feats I would grab Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot at level 1, and then Rapid Reload at level 3 if you don't go with the Musket Master archetype. You'll want to Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in at least one school of magic, and you'll want to grab Opposition Research at level 9. Arcane Strike is another good feat to pick up. You'll also have 3 free combat feats to pick up, so you might want to grab Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus with your gun.

Overall you'll wind up with a really good mix of spells. You can combine words to wind up with some nice blaster spells that also give you some measure of battlefield control. You'll have pretty high save DCs on those spells, so when you use them they'll usually be pretty effective. You'll have 3/4 progression on your BAB, and you'll be hitting at touch AC anyway. You'll also have spare feats to boost up your combat ability, so you can do some decent ranged damage. Then to round it all off, you'll have a ton of skill points thanks to your high Int and plenty of class skills to use them in thanks to your Gunslinger level.

It makes for a pretty fun blaster build.

This is a quirky thing most Optimizers miss about the combo of WoP and Spellslinger: Any spell with the Selected target word (as in ranged-touch able) is capable of being fired from the Arcane Gun and getting the nice buffs of the Spellslinger's gun DC buff. So the Friendship Selected spell gets the Arcane Gun's Enchantment Bonus to the DC.

[Khosan]

This is a quirky thing most Optimizers miss about the combo of WoP and Spellslinger: Any spell with the Selected target word (as in ranged-touch able) is capable of being fired from the Arcane Gun and getting the nice buffs of the Spellslinger's gun DC buff. So the Friendship Selected spell gets the Arcane Gun's Enchantment Bonus to the DC.

Ah, pointing a gun at someone's head. The best way to make friends.

[Tokuhara]

Ah, pointing a gun at someone's head. The best way to make friends.

Depends. Ever heard of a Shotgun Wedding? Same concept

[grarrrg]

Depends. Ever heard of a Shotgun Wedding? Same concept

Kind of reminds me of punching people (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13233869#post13233869) until they become your friends...

[Phlinn]

This is a quirky thing most Optimizers miss about the combo of WoP and Spellslinger: Any spell with the Selected target word (as in ranged-touch able) is capable of being fired from the Arcane Gun and getting the nice buffs of the Spellslinger's gun DC buff. So the Friendship Selected spell gets the Arcane Gun's Enchantment Bonus to the DC.

Incorrect. From the PRD: "A wordspell with this target word affects a single target within range. If the wordspell deals energy damage, this word creates a ray that requires a ranged touch attack to hit, or it can be used as a melee touch attack with no range (decided by the wordcaster when the wordspell is cast). If it is used as a melee touch attack and the attack misses, the wordcaster can hold the charge and try again with subsequent attacks." It only qualifies for the gun IF it deals energy damage. WoP makes the spellslinger worse unless you GM is kind.

[stack]

Note that the siege gunner gunslinger archetype has Int based grit. Thought it worth mentioning.

[Ilorin Lorati]

One of the good things about Spellslinger is that all its class level-based features are turned into spell-level based features, meaning that unless you want those bonus feats and discoveries you can multiclass to whatever extent you wish. As such I agree with Nightbringer and think giving up 2 class levels worth of spells for a level of Gunslinger and Eldritch Knight would be a fair tradeoff.

There's also a few other PrCs available that have full caster progression in their lower levels that you can use to end off your build, as well. Hellknight Signifier is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there are others.

[Phlinn]

Incorrect. From the PRD: "A wordspell with this target word affects a single target within range. If the wordspell deals energy damage, this word creates a ray that requires a ranged touch attack to hit, or it can be used as a melee touch attack with no range (decided by the wordcaster when the wordspell is cast). If it is used as a melee touch attack and the attack misses, the wordcaster can hold the charge and try again with subsequent attacks." It only qualifies for the gun IF it deals energy damage. WoP makes the spellslinger worse unless you GM is kind.
Wasn't sure if I should reply to myself or just edit the original. Didn't want this lost in the shuffle though

As I just realized while constructing a character, if you are willing to combine it with an energy attack it still works. What's a cantirp level attack between friends? :p And don't overlook stacking energy types in one wordspell. Distant Selected Wrack Burning Flash for or Line Burning Flash Shock Arc are both 3rds level spells. The second does 5d4 fire and 5d4 electric. Never mind, strict caster level dice cap for combined words. missed that on first readthrough.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Unless you're hell-bent on a long-range weapon, I cannot recommend the pepperbox enough. You can craft it easily enough, and you don't have to worry about reloading most combats.