3.5 Book Reprints coming in September

[Wonton]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20120625


Earlier this year, we announced the release of the 1st Edition core rulebook premium reprints. And now, we're further pleased to offer 3.5 Edition Core Rulebook premium reprints releasing this September!

On sale September 18, these 3.5 Edition premium reprints feature new covers and the latest errata -- so, be sure to pick yours up at your friendly local book or gaming store!


The Player’s Handbook has all the rules players need to create characters, select equipment, and engage in combat with a variety of supernatural and mythical foes.


The Dungeon Master’s Guide provides the DM with advice, guidelines, and everything he or she needs to create challenges, adventures, and full-fledged D&D campaigns, including sections on prestige classes, magic items, and character rewards.


The Monster Manual contains material that players and DMs alike will find useful. With hundreds of monsters to populate all levels of dungeons, this tome also includes monster creation rules, information on playing monsters as characters, details on monster tactics, and powered-up versions of standard creatures.


Together, these three volumes comprise the core rules for the 3.5 Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons game!

Also, please be sure to take this brief survey administered by SurveyGizmo, to tell us if you have other favorite content from v.3.5 that you'd like to see made available again. Click here to complete the survey. (http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/920940/Best-of-3e-3-5-Survey)

Fantastic news, even if I did already buy most of my favourite books off eBay. Definitely take the survey - personally, I would give an arm and a leg to see some of the rarer books (especially later ones like Tome of Battle and Magic Item Compendium) reprinted.

[BerronBrightaxe]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20120625

Fantastic news, even if I did already buy most of my favourite books off eBay. Definitely take the survey in the article - personally, I would give an arm and a leg to see some of the rarer books (especially later ones like Tome of Battle and Magic Item Compendium) reprinted.

They're just reprinting the corebooks (PHB, DMG, MMI).. :smalleek:

[Arcanist]

There are to many books I'd want to see reprints of in 3.5 unfortunately :smallfrown:

[Jarian]

Have to choose between ToB and Dragon Magic for best of 2006. Agony. :smallfrown:

[Wonton]

They're just reprinting the corebooks (PHB, DMG, MMI).. :smalleek:

At the bottom, it says "Also, please be sure to take this brief survey administered by SurveyGizmo, to tell us if you have other favorite content from v.3.5 that you'd like to see made available again." The survey (http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/920940/Best-of-3e-3-5-Survey) takes you to a page where you choose the top 3 books of each year (2003 - 2007).


Have to choose between ToB and Dragon Magic for best of 2006. Agony. :smallfrown:

You know you can choose 3, right? I chose both of those. My 3rd best would probably be PHB 2, but I already own that and so I chose something else that I don't have. :smalltongue:

[Arcanist]

At the bottom, it says "Also, please be sure to take this brief survey administered by SurveyGizmo, to tell us if you have other favorite content from v.3.5 that you'd like to see made available again." The survey (http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/920940/Best-of-3e-3-5-Survey) takes you to a page where you choose the top 3 books of each year (2003 - 2007).



You know you can choose 3, right? I chose both of those. My 3rd best would probably be PHB 2, but I already own that and so I chose something else that I don't have. :smalltongue:

I mostly picked books with... difficult rulings (DWK being True Dragons or not, Monks not being proficient with there natural weapons, etc)... hopefully with the rewrite they'll have some erratas to rectify those rules...

I also listed Heroes of Horror since its my favorite book because it has my favorite base class ever! (Archivist) :smallsmile:

[Jarian]

You know you can choose 3, right? I chose both of those. My 3rd best would probably be PHB 2, but I already own that and so I chose something else that I don't have. :smalltongue:

I do know that, yes. Unfortunately, almost the entirety of 2006 deserved a reprint, and I own all of them. ToB won out over ToM (subbed in for Dragon Magic) in the end - ToB got negative marks for its ridiculous errata and nonsensical stance progressions but high marks in everything else, while ToM scored incredibly for the Binder and, well, dismally for everything else.

[Marootsoobutsu]

This makes me happy. I would rather pay Wizards twice for ToB than give my money to them once for anything in 4.0, or to Paizo for... well, anything.

[Arcanist]

This makes me happy. I would rather pay Wizards twice for ToB than give my money to them once for anything in 4.0, or to Paizo for... well, anything.

Now, I actually liked Paizo's products. I believe Pathfinder was a good attempt at continuing where 3.5 left off :smallsmile: 4ed however? They killed my favorite campaign setting so no thank you WoTC. :smallannoyed:

Its going to take some time for WoTC to redeem themselves in my eyes after 4ed but in time I will forgive them :smallsigh:

[Marootsoobutsu]

Now, I actually liked Paizo's products. I believe Pathfinder was a good attempt at continuing where 3.5 left off :smallsmile: 4ed however? They killed my favorite campaign setting so no thank you WoTC. :smallannoyed:

Its going to take some time for WoTC to redeem themselves in my eyes after 4ed but in time I will forgive them :smallsigh:

While my gripes against Paizo are many, I will admit that they did some things extremely well. Most of those things were things I did in my games as house-rules, anyway... but those are things that have already been released free, and their subsequent offerings leave me cold. The only reason I'm glad they printed those rules, is now I look less crazy when I merge them with 3.5 games I run. "Oh, yeah. This isn't a house-rule; I'm just blending PF with 3.5," gets me more knowing nods than when I was doing the same thing before.

[maximus25]

Please choose Tome of Magic.

If they fixed or even errata'd Truenamers somehow, it would be awesome.

[molten_dragon]

I'm a bit disappointed that so far they only have plans to release the core rules. I was hoping to see reprints of everything. I'm hoping that the poll will encourage them to do reprints of more content. In the comments section at the end I encouraged them to reprint everything rather than just a few select books, I hope others will do the same.

[Mordokai]

Here's to hoping we see reprint of Libris Mortis.

[HunterOfJello]

I'm a bit disappointed that so far they only have plans to release the core rules. I was hoping to see reprints of everything. I'm hoping that the poll will encourage them to do reprints of more content. In the comments section at the end I encouraged them to reprint everything rather than just a few select books, I hope others will do the same.


WoTC is likely testing the waters with this rerelease of the 3.5 core books. If lots of people start buying them up and WoTC makes some good profit out of it, then they'll likely release more books that they think people will buy. It would be foolish for them to suddenly rerelease all of the 3.5 books at once, both because of the risk it would present and because scarcity improves sales.

I will be surprised if they begin reprinting every single book they've ever printed. There are just too many and quite a few of them were terrible and no one would be likely to buy today (Ghostwrack, I'm looking at you).

I think this is all really awesome. WoTC will likely reprint ToB and some of the other super popular books like the Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium. All of the books that sell for $80+ on ebay will be the ones reprinted and at least sold on their website.

~

This reminds me of what Atlus did when they released some of their old games for sale online like Disgaea. Sitting around while people on ebay resell your games for $100+ just because you refuse to manufacture more of them is bad for business.

[KillianHawkeye]

Damn, I just ordererd the Spell Compendium for like $60 on Amazon! :smallsigh:

[sonofzeal]

I am deeply, deeply encouraged by the implications of that poll, and I left a 200-word response to prove it.

I'd say "too little too late", but I wouldn't really mean it. It's just enough, right on time. If you guys do this, and reprint needed old material, then I have to say kudos to the lot of you!

I recommend including some errata in the reprint though, especially for books like Tome of Battle that never got a proper errata.

Also, if any new content comes out, I highly recommend some increased cross-pollination. Seeing bits of psi support in ToB was great, and I'd love seeing more items and feats and PrCs that help integrate content from different sourcebooks. I can understand why it was uncommon back then, but most 3.5 players these days have a decent library, and it directly builds on the fundamental strength of 3.5.

NEVER FORGET: the fundamental strength of 3.5 is massive flexibility within a level-based framework. Nothing else comes close without discarding the satisfying elements of level-based advancement, or losing out on flexibility. Even Pathfinder has less than a percent the options available in 3.5. Building on that strength is the way to go. If you guys do that... godspeed, and I'll be saving my paychecks!

(actually, first it said it was 196 words, then when I tried to submit it it said 202, so I deleted a sentence. Not sure what the final count would have been.)

[Morph Bark]

Answered the survey. Sadly, the first two years didn't have that much interesting stuff, the middle years had the best and the final had some easy picks for the 3.

Of course, I mainly picked books I do not own a copy of yet, mainly the Compendiums.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I don't know about everybody else, but I used to Comments section to ask for books like "The Feat Compendium" and "The Class Compendium". Considering how often people wish we had these, and how useful they could be, this might be our chance to make these a reality!

[deuxhero]

Other than ToB, MIC and SpC, what are the "rare" books?

[killem2]

I sent this link out to all my friends, and my buddy who runs a local game store to send out on his mailing list. :)

Anyone know what the normal retail price of these books usually is?

[Psyren]

If they don't fix ToM then I'm not even remotely interested.

MoI could use some work too but I don't know how popular that was to begin with anyway.

[Doomboy911]

Dang it I have all the 3.5 books but I want to have the physical copies so I can start a decent library.

[Zaq]

Other than ToB, MIC and SpC, what are the "rare" books?

Some of the Completes tend to be pretty pricey on Amazon, and some of the monster books are also pretty expensive.

[Pyromancer999]

Interesting. Still, while they said they're re-printing, did they say they're errata-ing or otherwise altering the content of the books?

[deuxhero]

Some of the Completes tend to be pretty pricey on Amazon, and some of the monster books are also pretty expensive.

Anything more specific than "some"?

[Waker]

I put in my two cents. Even though I own most of the 3.5 books, I would love to see more interaction between the subsystems. I thought Incarnum was the bees knees. How cool would it be to have an initiator fueled by essentia? Same goes with Binding.
And even though they would never put in the kind of effort to fix broken things like Truenamer, I would hope they would put in a few lines here and there to clear up arguments like DWK not/being True Dragons.

[killem2]

Remember there is a space for other comments, tell your friends they should clarify all erratas, and try to compile questions that have been sent to them, about this kind of thing. Like those inserts in dragon/dungeon mags, "Answers from the Experts" or whatever it was called were people would send in questions to get official answers.

[Tyndmyr]

My comments simply stated that if they opted to republish the entirety of the edition in one glorious collectors edition, I would buy the hell out of it.

[Dire Panda]

It's nice to see WotC throwing us 3.5'ers a bone (and perhaps tacitly acknowledging that 4e wasn't for everyone). The cynical part of me suspects that they finally noticed how many people are pirating 3.5 PDFs...

[Psyren]

It's nice to see WotC throwing us 3.5'ers a bone (and perhaps tacitly acknowledging that 4e wasn't for everyone). The cynical part of me suspects that they finally noticed how many people are pirating 3.5 PDFs...

More likely, they noticed Pathfinder sales.

[animewatcha]

When it comes to 'reprinting' something. Is any of the content changed, errata'ed, etc.? Like say, fixing the monk?

[killem2]

It's nice to see WotC throwing us 3.5'ers a bone (and perhaps tacitly acknowledging that 4e wasn't for everyone). The cynical part of me suspects that they finally noticed how many people are pirating 3.5 PDFs...

I'm sure this has something to do with it, considering there a 200% or more difference in price vs the 2nd hand books and retail new ones that were freshly in print.

I would feel no remorse if a company stopped printing product to its loyal players. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for a big company, when it's player base has to pay nearly 90.00 for a book online that could could be bought for 30.00 retail, when they control the printing press.

Some books of course are cheaper, such as planar handbook, but there is a reason for that lol.

[ThiagoMartell]

When it comes to 'reprinting' something. Is any of the content changed, errata'ed, etc.? Like say, fixing the monk?

You dream too high, my friend.

[animewatcha]

Okay, so no fixing the monk. However, in reprints, is any of the content changed, errata'ed, etc.?

[Menteith]

When it comes to 'reprinting' something. Is any of the content changed, errata'ed, etc.? Like say, fixing the monk?

I seriously doubt they'll do anything new with regard to content. What I think is more likely to happen is that fundamentally nonfunctional areas of the rules will be clarified (See the thread on "Rules by Common Sense" for some examples). Things like Tower Shields and Drown Healing could be fixed with a few sentences.

[ThiagoMartell]

I seriously doubt they'll do anything new with regard to content. What I think is more likely to happen is that fundamentally nonfunctional areas of the rules will be clarified (See the thread on "Rules by Common Sense" for some examples). Things like Tower Shields and Drown Healing could be fixed with a few sentences.

I doubt they'd do even that.

[maximus25]

Interesting. Still, while they said they're re-printing, did they say they're errata-ing or otherwise altering the content of the books?

Yes, they said they will update books with new errata.

[Ianuagonde]

Even though I own most of the 3.5 books, I would love to see more interaction between the subsystems. I thought Incarnum was the bees knees. How cool would it be to have an initiator fueled by essentia?

Oh yes, so much yes. Channeling the souls of paladins and celestials for holy warriors, using the souls of gladiators and champions for physical might...

Regarding the poll, it's tricky. Some years have few good options (Ghostwalk? Really?), the later years have lots of good stuff. I'm casting my vote for the alternative systems like Incarnum and Binding.

[Menteith]

I doubt they'd do even that.

I can dream! :smallsmile:

[ThiagoMartell]

Ghostwalk is a pretty good setting.

[ThiagoMartell]

Yes, they said they will update books with new errata.

No, they said with errata. They never said new errata.

[maximus25]

No, they said with errata. They never said new errata.

I have a dream, and in my dream they said new errata.

[Tyndmyr]

No, they said with errata. They never said new errata.

This.

I anticipate them being straight reprints with the addition of errata. How this will work for ToB, I have no idea.

Still, that's useful. I'd rather have my errata in my book, and new and shiny is always a plus.

[Psyren]

If they ever do plan on updating the errata, for the love of Pelor they need to allow community feedback the way they're doing with 5e before they finalize the books. Hell, make me sign up for DDI or something to give my 2 cents, I'll even do it.

And I would kill for them to openly state FAQ's place in the rules hierarchy as well.

[deuxhero]

If they reprinted ToB, would they apply the Errata?

It could exist somewhere (or whoever wrote the errata was REALLY lazy and was using the errata of another book as a template).

[Answerer]

Tome of Battle is the best book printed for 3.5, bar none. A travesty if they do not reprint it.

[ThiagoMartell]

Tome of Battle is the best book printed for 3.5, bar none. A travesty if they do not reprint it.

I knew we'd agree on something someday.

[Soliloquy]

I just pray to Gygax that this is heralding a return to His style of rules, and that your wishes for a monk fix in a 3.5 style game shall be fulfilled in 5e

Yes, my wish for 5e is essentially "can we just have 3.5 again?"

[Tyndmyr]

Tome of Battle is the best book printed for 3.5, bar none. A travesty if they do not reprint it.

I don't know if I'd agree...SpC, MiC, and ToB are all so damned good...I'd hate to have to choose.

That said, I voted for all of them.

[ThiagoMartell]

I just pray to Gygax that this is heralding a return to His style of rules, and that your wishes for a monk fix in a 3.5 style game shall be fulfilled in 5e

Yes, my wish for 5e is essentially "can we just have 3.5 again?"

Gygax had nothing to do with 3.5, what is your point?

[Menteith]

Gygax had nothing to do with 3.5, what is your point?

+1

What makes D&D3.5 so attractive as a system is actually quite hard to pin down for me. I love that you can fit almost any story into the system, from Tier 1 classes fighting to save reality itself from an Elder Evil and its entire church, to a group of farmhands defending their homes from encroaching goblins. I think that the character creation sub-game is one of the deepest and most robust systems around (there's a reason that new tricks are still being learned about optimization now, years later, and it can still be refined further). I think that the game does a good job of covering most situations and combat options, and has a good tactical sub-game in it.

But very little of that fits with Gygax's versions or the style of gaming he ran/built.

[Divayth Fyr]

I anticipate them being straight reprints with the addition of errata. How this will work for ToB, I have no idea.
It would most certainly be... interesting :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Now, I actually liked Paizo's products. I believe Pathfinder was a good attempt at continuing where 3.5 left off :smallsmile: 4ed however? They killed my favorite campaign setting so no thank you WoTC. :smallannoyed:

Its going to take some time for WoTC to redeem themselves in my eyes after 4ed but in time I will forgive them :smallsigh:
Um... FR? You could just run it in the 3.5 version of the setting. Or take it as an interesting post-apocalypse world.

I just pray to Gygax that this is heralding a return to His style of rules, and that your wishes for a monk fix in a 3.5 style game shall be fulfilled in 5e

Yes, my wish for 5e is essentially "can we just have 3.5 again?"

No. I don't want that. For me, 3.5 has lost its magic. Only Red Hand of Doom, some Eberron games, and a couple things Callos DeTerran has come up with can hold my interest. And those would work about as well in 4e rules, or Strands of Fate rules, or Wushu rules, or, if it ever comes out, Exalted 3e rules (which I know will be good because Robert Vance will be working on them). Balancing doesn't work either, because I have Legend, and it doesn't spark any new interest in me. If I ever get invited to a RL 3.5 game, I will come, I will make a character, and I will play. But it won't be because it's 3.5.

Besides, Gygax's style would mean that the reprinting of AD&D means that this is WotC's attempt at remaking AD&D.

[Curmudgeon]

I guess we'll have to see what's in these books in September. It would be nice to see at least things that have already been fixed in prior printed editions.

From the Special Edition Player's Handbook 3.5:

Spring Attack [General]

When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can split your move action in that round in order to move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can't use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack. The standard PH doesn't make it clear that you're splitting a move action. This update was never included in the errata files, but was stealthily updated in this leather-bound version of the core rulebook.

[Wonton]

This.

I anticipate them being straight reprints with the addition of errata. How this will work for ToB, I have no idea.

Still, that's useful. I'd rather have my errata in my book, and new and shiny is always a plus.

Personally, I thought that was obvious from the start. I mean, how many of the 3.5 designers are even left at WotC, anyways? I'm pretty sure the big 3, Monte Cook/Skip Williams/Jonathan Tweet all left a long time ago. So what they have now is a bunch of 4e designers... who are busy working on 5e... and people expect them to go digging into the 3.5 rules to figure out what needs fixing?

I would give it a 99% probability that they just staple existing errata into the books and be done with it. Still, if that means I can get a copy of MIC for less than $70, that will make me a happy man.

[ThiagoMartell]

Personally, I thought that was obvious from the start. I mean, how many of the 3.5 designers are even left at WotC, anyways? I'm pretty sure the big 3, Monte Cook/Skip Williams/Jonathan Tweet all left a long time ago. So what they have now is a bunch of 4e designers... who are busy working on 5e... and people expect them to go digging into the 3.5 rules to figure out what needs fixing?

I would give it a 99% probability that they just staple existing errata into the books and be done with it. Still, if that means I can get a copy of MIC for less than $70, that will make me a happy man.

They could just hire freelance writers.
They won't, though.

[Psyren]

Personally, I thought that was obvious from the start. I mean, how many of the 3.5 designers are even left at WotC, anyways? I'm pretty sure the big 3, Monte Cook/Skip Williams/Jonathan Tweet all left a long time ago. So what they have now is a bunch of 4e designers... who are busy working on 5e... and people expect them to go digging into the 3.5 rules to figure out what needs fixing?

I would give it a 99% probability that they just staple existing errata into the books and be done with it. Still, if that means I can get a copy of MIC for less than $70, that will make me a happy man.

Isn't Monte back? Though the "working on 5e" thing still applies.

[molten_dragon]

I don't know if I'd agree...SpC, MiC, and ToB are all so damned good...I'd hate to have to choose.

That said, I voted for all of them.

That's funny, because I didn't vote for any of them. I don't want them to reprint books I already have.

[ThiagoMartell]

Isn't Monte back? Though the "working on 5e" thing still applies.

Monte left months ago.

[137beth]

No Eberron? There were a lot of Eberron 3.5 books, and none of them were on the survey...for that matter, there were hardly even any 4e Eberron stuff (even though I wouldn't buy it.)

I mostly voted for the "complete" series.
One of my favorites that I doubt most people will vote for was races of the wild. And everyone will kill me for saying this, but I don't like using ToB in my games. They are very well designed, I just don't like having them effectively replace normal martial characters.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I did the survey earlier today so I can't remember my exact choices (ToB and XPH are the ones I do remember voting for)...and frankly I would love to have all the 3.5 library reprinted.

I got into D&D and gaming about 6 months before 4e was released so it was very difficult for me to get the books and the gaming store I frequented on those days had an awful stock... I only was able to get a copy of CArc, HoH and (thankfully) PHB. The gaming store I go to now, has a much nicer selection of books (mostly 4e and PF) and even has some second hand 3.5 books; but sadly it doesn't have the ones I am interested in.

[Wonton]

One of my favorites that I doubt most people will vote for was races of the wild.

You're not alone in that. I love the Races series, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) they're more fluff-oriented than the Complete series. While I enjoy reading them, I'm not sure if I want to pay $30+ (more like 50 on eBay after shipping...) for 160 pages about halfling/elf society, and then 30 pages of prestige classes and feats.

[animewatcha]

I just pray to Gygax that this is heralding a return to His style of rules, and that your wishes for a monk fix in a 3.5 style game shall be fulfilled in 5e

Yes, my wish for 5e is essentially "can we just have 3.5 again?"

Enworld had a class section thinger as a 'preview' for 5e. Wotc had fighters being hard to design or something and monks easy. Which means monk will probably lack proficiency in their unarmed strikes again.

[Togo]

You're not alone in that. I love the Races series, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) they're more fluff-oriented than the Complete series. While I enjoy reading them, I'm not sure if I want to pay $30+ (more like 50 on eBay after shipping...) for 160 pages about halfling/elf society, and then 30 pages of prestige classes and feats.

That's what I thought, but actually they are very well written, and I'm coming around to the idea that they're well worth the money. Usually I find non-rules sections of game books to be... well... substandard writing. But the races of destiny and races of stone I really enjoyed.

[Waker]

So what they have now is a bunch of 4e designers... who are busy working on 5e... and people expect them to go digging into the 3.5 rules to figure out what needs fixing?

That would take about five minutes posting on a forum to figure out. Now reading through the hundreds of pages or rather essays detailing all the things that need fixing would take a bit longer.

They could just hire freelance writers.
They won't, though.
They could simply outsource it to people on the internet. I mean, look at Legend. And no, it won't happen.

[Wonton]

That would take about five minutes posting on a forum to figure out.

It's really not that simple. Do you really think all of 3.5's problems can be fixed by spending 5 minutes on a forum? :smallconfused:

If so, why is it that 5 years after 3.5 ended, we still haven't we reached a D&D utopia where every single rule works as intended, all classes are balanced, and there is not a single exploit in the entirety of the game?

[mattie_p]

I strongly recommend your local second hand book stores. If you can find such a store, you can generally buy the books for $10-$15, you are supporting your local economy, and saving money from the scalpers on ebay and the like. I have bought about 8 3.5 books within that price range from two different stores within my local area.

Or post a handwritten ad in your local gaming shop. I bet if you are a regular they'd put it up for you.

[sreservoir]

It's really not that simple. Do you really think all of 3.5's problems can be fixed by spending 5 minutes on a forum? :smallconfused:

If so, why is it that 5 years after 3.5 ended, we still haven't we reached a D&D utopia where every single rule works as intended, all classes are balanced, and there is not a single exploit in the entirety of the game?

figuring out what needs fixing is very different from actually fixing those problems.

[Eldariel]

If they actually work new errata into the new releases, this will be incredible. Here's hoping. The unofficial errata would serve as a great starting point.

[Talionis]

I would put my support behind reprinting the Dragon Magazine feats, etc like the Dragon Compendium. I like the idea of having book access to all those great feats and prestige classes like Heartfire Fanner and the feat s.

[Answerer]

D&D utopia where every single rule works as intended
I'd probably hate that game. The intent of at least some of the authors seems... very undesirable to me.

[Arcanist]

D&D utopia where every single rule works as intended, all classes are balanced, and there is not a single exploit in the entirety of the game?

So its basically League of Legends where everyone is balanced except for when you add WBL :smallannoyed: My god that game would suck...

[Eldariel]

So its basically League of Legends where everyone is balanced except for when you add WBL :smallannoyed: My god that game would suck...

Balanced doesn't mean equal; there's a sufficiently large number of different things to do that power level doesn't really equate to pretty much anything.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So its basically League of Legends where everyone is balanced except for when you add WBL :smallannoyed: My god that game would suck...

...Do you hate League of Legends or something?

[Arcanist]

...Do you hate League of Legends or something?

No actually I play it religiously.


Balanced doesn't mean equal; there's a sufficiently large number of different things to do that power level doesn't really equate to pretty much anything.

Right, just like how a Fighter is Equal in power to a Wizard without his Spellbook :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

Right, just like how a Fighter is Equal in power to a Wizard without his Spellbook :smallsmile:

No, I'm just saying that the game being balanced wouldn't make it homogenous or even allow every class to contribute equally in every type of an encounter.

[Arcanist]

No, I'm just saying that the game being balanced wouldn't make it homogenous or even allow every class to contribute equally in every type of an encounter.

I'm not following :smallconfused: please feel free to explain. :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

I'm not following :smallconfused: please feel free to explain. :smallsmile:

If I read correctly, your complaint would be that if the classes were balanced, the only differences between them would come from Wealth Per Level. But, thinking back at your example of League of Legends, the classes' (champions') power being similar doesn't really have much bearing on their playstyle or hell, effectiveness. For instance, Shaco cannot teamfight but excels at lane stomping and split pushing while Amumu is absolutely brutal in teamfights but suffers of a mediocre early game. Some have more base values while others scale better.

In a similar way, classes being balanced still wouldn't mean that every class would contribute the same in a given encounter or would have the same options or could fill the same roles (well, 3.X being 3.X, balanced 3.X would probably have most classes capable of filling most roles), a distinction distinct from WBL. Hell, WBL already brings them closer together if anything, giving everyone options out of a common pool.


Without WBL, this hypothetical Balanced Fighter (let's call it "Warblade" for short) would still have a vastly different skill set from the Balanced Illusionist (let's call it "Beguiler" for short) and they would indeed excel at different areas, have use for each other in a party and scale differently and care about different things.

[Airanath]

They might actually crack open the "Content that never made it past playtesting" Jar, jugdging by the last question in the survey (The what kind of new content you would like to see? On a 3.5 survey?)

[Arcanist]

*snip*

That actually makes sense :smallsmile: I suppose the greatest fear of balance is that after a while everyone basically becomes the same which would make for a boring game. I suppose my greatest problem is alternate action animations yielding the exact same result.

If "Warblade" twirls his sword around and attacks really fast (Time Stand Still) and then "Sorcerer" twirls his hands around and says some mumbo jumbo and starts casting spells really fast (Time Stop) then didn't they have 2 different animations and the exact same effect?

[Eldariel]

That actually makes sense :smallsmile: I suppose the greatest fear of balance is that after a while everyone basically becomes the same which would make for a boring game. I suppose my greatest problem is alternate action animations yielding the exact same result.

If "Warblade" twirls his sword around and attacks really fast (Time Stand Still) and then "Sorcerer" twirls his hands around and says some mumbo jumbo and starts casting spells really fast (Time Stop) then didn't they have 2 different animations and the exact same effect?

I think there's enough wiggleroom in D&D to make that a non-issue. The two effects you have, for instance, are vastly different; Time Stands Still allows you to double your attacks but that's it. It doesn't allow you to move faster, cast faster, drink faster or stand on your hands faster. It isn't really a time variation ability as much as a series of lightning-fast attacks.

Time Stop, on the other hand? You freeze time (well, 3.X claims you "move really fast" but we all know that's bogus) for everybody but yourself. This gives you unrestricted (and much longer, mind; Time Stands Still is only ever two full attacks) time to act as you please. However, since time isn't moving for anybody else you cannot affect anybody but yourself with spells. You're also free to move, stand on hands and so on but you still cannot poke somebody else meaningfully since they're frozen in time.


In essence, they actually might have similar animation but completely different effects; Time Stands Still is an auto-attack enhancer while Time Stop allows you to move, cast, sing or stand on your hands while frozen in time but with all the drawbacks that come with being frozen in time.

I don't see a reason that would need to change in a balanced D&D. Martial types do extraordinary but still ultimately mundane feats; they can move fast but they can't teleport, they can use any item they might have access to as a weapon but they cannot actually create things out of thin air, they might be able to jump really high or even balance on the air but they cannot actually grow wings and fly. And they might be really, really good at swinging a sword (so much so that they can completely disable people around them without actually harming them and such) but they can't turn into a dinosaur and rip somebody's head off. And while they can be really good at talking, they cannot Mindrape people. None of that necessarily needs to change to achieve balance.

Like I pointed earlier, Warblade and Beguiler are fairly balanced with each other while one can conjure stuff out of thin air, create illusions, use mobility magic and so on while the other one can jump, move really fast, lead people and use a sword in a massive variety of ways.

[Larkas]

This was one of the most cruel surveys I ever took part of. 3 choices, really? What about "All of the above"? I really, REALLY hope this plan works out.

[animewatcha]

They might actually crack open the "Content that never made it past playtesting" Jar, jugdging by the last question in the survey (The what kind of new content you would like to see? On a 3.5 survey?)

Supposedly they are taking concepts and desires from 3.5 to incorporate into 5.0. If there is 'new content', I would help it would be taken ( or atleast maybe an attempt at adapting ) some of the stuff from 3rd party books. Like the fist enchant feat from Arcana evolved or whatever the book was ( I have only very few 3rd party sterf ).

[Wonton]

They might actually crack open the "Content that never made it past playtesting" Jar, jugdging by the last question in the survey (The what kind of new content you would like to see? On a 3.5 survey?)

Hm, seems unlikely. Maybe they're just thinking about how to make 5e appealing to us 3.5 folks. I mean, they know that there are lots of 3.5 players out there who got turned off by 4e and have now switched to Pathfinder. So from a business standpoint, it would be a really good idea to do something to get those gamers back to D&D.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
I anticipate them being straight reprints with the addition of errata.

When the core reprints were visible on Amazon a couple of months ago, they each had a page count of 320, which is consistent with the originals. The new page count might just be a placeholder, but it makes sense they'd want to put these out with a minimum of editorial effort.


Originally Posted by 137ben
One of my favorites that I doubt most people will vote for was races of the wild.

You're far from alone; I voted for it too. Call me a sucker for the Arcane Hierophant. :smallbiggrin:

Also, doomed as it may be, I put in a request for reprinting some of the 3.5 Forgotten Realms books, especially the Waterdeep sourcebook. --And, moving into pipe-dream territory, I would love a new 3.5 regional book on the Moonshaes, with the same level of detail as Silver Marches or Unapproachable East.

I know: I dream. I know this.

But still.

[ngilop]

this is the 2nd and 3rd times i cried about 3rd ed

the first is whne i opened teh ToB and cried tears of happiness over the fixed Fightewrs, paldins and rogues

I cried in happiness again when i read this ( too bad i already own every book I wanted) but then cried teasr of sadness when I realized that in a couple fo years there were 4 books that i wanted to be printed.

im going to lock myself in a room if ToB does not get voted becuase too many people are too focused on books like complet psionics, and of the feidish codexes, or races of the dragon :(

[Arcanist]

this is the 2nd and 3rd times i cried about 3rd ed

the first is whne i opened teh ToB and cried tears of happiness over the fixed Fightewrs, paldins and rogues

I cried in happiness again when i read this ( too bad i already own every book I wanted) but then cried teasr of sadness when I realized that in a couple fo years there were 4 books that i wanted to be printed.

im going to lock myself in a room if ToB does not get voted becuase too many people are too focused on books like complet psionics, and of the feidish codexes, or races of the dragon :(

Complete Psionics was alright, Fiendish Codex was alright but didn't capture the true power of the demon lords, and Races of the Dragon was filled typos and misinterpretations. So yes, I'd like a reprint of Tome of Battle.

EDIT: I find it hilarious but on the playground we might disagree on everything else but we all ultimately love Tome of Battle :smallamused:

[ngilop]

Complete Psionics was alright, Fiendish Codex was alright but didn't capture the true power of the demon lords, and Races of the Dragon was filled typos and misinterpretations. So yes, I'd like a reprint of Tome of Battle.

EDIT: I find it hilarious but on the playground we might disagree on everything else but we all ultimately love Tome of Battle :smallamused:

So.. did we just become friends?

I.. I think we did. here have a pie!

[Menteith]

Is it terrible that I really want a Sandstorm reprint, almost solely because I love Ashworm Dragoon and don't actually own the dead tree version of the book?

[Lucianus]

EDIT: I find it hilarious but on the playground we might disagree on everything else but we all ultimately love Tome of Battle :smallamused:

I myself despise Tome of Battle. I don't disallow my players to use it, I just find all the little "I jump, spin, wink at the pretty girls and do an extra 10d6 damage" things a bit out there. Great for players who like rolling fistfuls of dice and bragging about how big the number is, bad for people who like a touch of realism in their game about magic and dragons.

Hmmm... Does that last sentence make any sense at all?

Either way, WoTC is probably doing this to either mine ideas from potential customers for the new version, or are toying with the idea of releasing one or two "Compendium" or "Favorites From" books to cash in on the continuing 3.5/PF sales. I SEVERELY doubt they will reprint whole copies of any books outside the core three.

Also, Ghostwalk was awesome! Shame on you for saying otherwise! :smalltongue:

[sonofzeal]

I myself despise Tome of Battle. I don't disallow my players to use it, I just find all the little "I jump, spin, wink at the pretty girls and do an extra 10d6 damage" things a bit out there. Great for players who like rolling fistfuls of dice and bragging about how big the number is, bad for people who like a touch of realism in their game about magic and dragons.

Hmmm... Does that last sentence make any sense at all?
:smalltongue:

OTOH... a lvl 10 Fighter fully decked out with a greatsword can hack at a fellow lvl 10 Fighter who's not even trying to dodge or protect himself, and it'll take... what, a minute to drop him? Even the Wizard can take dozens of arrows and keep on trucking without any magical protections whatsoever.

Personally, I think that's just a tad less realistic than "I've trained hard enough to actually be able to do relevant damage to things of my level."

[Jarian]

I myself despise Tome of Battle. I don't disallow my players to use it, I just find all the little "I jump, spin, wink at the pretty girls and do an extra 10d6 damage" things a bit out there. Great for players who like rolling fistfuls of dice and bragging about how big the number is, bad for people who like a touch of realism in their game about magic and dragons.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2878/35iuf8.jpg

I'd like it very much if you could provide a few examples of the maneuvers you feel are particularly out there. I'm willing to wager a not inconsiderable amount of internet monies that anyone with a touch of imagination can describe each of them as a "realistic" martial technique.

Supernatual maneuvers being the exception, of course, since those are magic and you aren't complaining about wizards and clerics here.

Not trying to devolve this into another ToB debate thread, but seriously.

[Wonton]

Is it terrible that I really want a Sandstorm reprint, almost solely because I love Ashworm Dragoon and don't actually own the dead tree version of the book?

No, not at all. Personally, Sandstorm and Frostburn are two of my favourite books. Sandstorm has some of the coolest spells in the game - Body Blaze lights you on fire and then you leave a Wall of Fire behind you as you walk. Vitrify turns sand into molten glass, burning enemies up, and eventually solidifying to trap them.

Frostburn just has a special spot in my heart because my first character was a Sorcerer using some homebrew bloodline rules (anyone remember the Ultimate Sorcerer off the old WotC boards?) to gain the cold powers of his silver dragon heritage. That was probably one of only 10 recorded cases where someone actually took the Snowcasting feat. :smalltongue:


:smalltongue:

OTOH... a lvl 10 Fighter fully decked out with a greatsword can hack at a fellow lvl 10 Fighter who's not even trying to dodge or protect himself, and it'll take... what, a minute to drop him? Even the Wizard can take dozens of arrows and keep on trucking without any magical protections whatsoever.

I think that just comes back to the "Gandalf was a 5th-level magic-user" problem where all semblance of realism, or even any relation to conventional fantasy goes out the window after 6th level or so. E6 put it best, I think:


Levels 1-5: Gritty fantasy
Levels 6-10: Heroic fantasy
Levels 11-15: Wuxia
Levels 16-20: Superheroes

[Optimator]

Sweeeeet! I hope they reprint some of the books missing from my collection.

[DigoDragon]

I can dream! :smallsmile:

I want to believe in your dream. :smallsmile:

[ThiagoMartell]

I want to believe in your dream. :smallsmile:

Now I can't stop imagining WotC as Sephiroth.
"Tell me what you cherish the most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away!"

[Menteith]

Now I can't stop imagining WotC as Sephiroth.
"Tell me what you cherish the most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away!"

Noes, not my chocolate ice cream!!!! :smalleek:

[Yora]

This is all a really weird business descision. Your current edition still in the stores, the next one already getting promotend, and now reprinting an older one?

I really don't see what this is supposed to accomplish in the long term.

[ThiagoMartell]

This is all a really weird business descision. Your current edition still in the stores, the next one already getting promotend, and now reprinting an older one?

I really don't see what this is supposed to accomplish in the long term.

They've been doing that for quite a while now.

[SSGoW]

More likely, they noticed Pathfinder sales.

If I owed a company and another company made my product profitable when I went on to create the next installment I would want to get those people back on my side.

The best way to do this? No not only recreate what ppl liked about my product but ask the ppl what parts of the product they liked most and then put that into my next product.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a base class from ToB (fighter/rogue), Magic Incarnum (totemis druid/barbarian type), Tome of Magic (sorcerer/warlock binder type), Core 3.5 (Cleric/Wizard) all incorporated into 5th somehow.

Sure I played the playtest for 5th but they didn't give us much to go on. I would love to see each base 3.5 class come from a different book (or different type of power). Then scale it so they all work with the same math and presto.

[Menteith]

This is all a really weird business descision. Your current edition still in the stores, the next one already getting promotend, and now reprinting an older one?

I really don't see what this is supposed to accomplish in the long term.

I'm taking this to mean that they're supporting full backwards compatibility with regard to D&D Next and D&D3.5. They want to remind everyone, especially those who jumped ship to Pazio, that they're going to start making products that appeal to them again. I'm guessing they're doing this purely to remind lost players that they were the ones who created the system that so many of us enjoy, and that they want to make products for us again.

[EccentricCircle]

I don't know about everybody else, but I used to Comments section to ask for books like "The Feat Compendium" and "The Class Compendium". Considering how often people wish we had these, and how useful they could be, this might be our chance to make these a reality!

Likewise. I pointed out that there are a few books with spells published after spell compendium as well. and that they could likely produce a reasonable spell compendium 2 while they're at it.

As to the logic of this as a buisness decision I reckon it makes a fair bit of sense. They've announced the new edition, but its still a fair way off. So they can't sell it yet, despite that being what a lot of people are now getting excited about. a lot of people are now going to be less keen to spalsh out on expensive 4e books, what with the edition change coming. They don't seem to have many products lined up for 4e int he near future, so we can infer that they realise this.

However they want to sell something, so why not turn to an old product for which theres a guarenteed market? the 1e reprint seems to have attracted a lot of positive press, and 3.5 still has a huge following. plus they don't have to produce a new book in order to have something to sell. cutting thier costs a bit and freeing up people who would be writing sourcebooks to work on D&D next without reducing their overall output. Core rulebooks are known to sell better than sourcebooks anyway. so having a few months of just selling core books (with maybe even a fully errata'd Special edition of the 4e books as a capstone product for the edition) makes a lot of sense. last but by non means least it will make lots of people happy, and more inclined to check out their new products.

Its a publicity stunt. But its an awesome publicity stunt. So I'm not complaining.

[Arcanist]

I don't know about everybody else, but I used to Comments section to ask for books like "The Feat Compendium" and "The Class Compendium". Considering how often people wish we had these, and how useful they could be, this might be our chance to make these a reality!

I actually requested a WoTC published Dragon Magazine type thing where they detail issues in the game, give rulings, etc. I believe that it would be an easy simply solution towards solving in game problems. Also recommended they observe Table top gaming sites to learn how to improve and expand the fan base. :smallsmile:

That was just my 2cp anyway, its highly unlikely they'll listen to it though :smallredface:

[Tyndmyr]

This is all a really weird business descision. Your current edition still in the stores, the next one already getting promotend, and now reprinting an older one?

I really don't see what this is supposed to accomplish in the long term.

Make all the customers happy, and feel included. It costs fairly little to do another print run of an already-produced book. If you've got the customers, it should be a profitable venture.

And now, those people are suddenly reminded that you're producing things they care about again. They might show up on your web site occasionally. Check out that new 5e thing.

Oh, this is definitely smart, no doubt about it.

[Melayl]

This is all a really weird business descision. Your current edition still in the stores, the next one already getting promotend, and now reprinting an older one?

I really don't see what this is supposed to accomplish in the long term.

If they can make money selling reprints (for which there is an obvious market), why wouldn't they?

Yes, they have an edition in stores. Which I've heard isn't selling as well as they'd like. They likely want another stream of income.

Yes, they have another edition coming out. Will reprints of an older edition negatively impact sales of this new edition? Maybe. However, it is likely that people will still buy this new edition, at least for a while, due to the very fact that it is new. Some people might like it better, who knows. If they make this new edition even remotely backwards compatible, as some have suggested they might, it would increase sales of both the reprint editions and the new editions.

I see it as a win-win for WotC. The fact that it will make their customer base happier is even more of a win for them. They likely need some good PR with their customers...

[Hiro Protagonest]

I myself despise Tome of Battle. I don't disallow my players to use it, I just find all the little "I jump, spin, wink at the pretty girls and do an extra 10d6 damage" things a bit out there. Great for players who like rolling fistfuls of dice and bragging about how big the number is, bad for people who like a touch of realism in their game about magic and dragons.

Hmmm... Does that last sentence make any sense at all?

All realism gets thrown out the window past level 6. Think of warblades like Dante and Guts, swordsages and factotums like Altaïr, Ezio, and Connor, and crusaders like Beowulf.

If you want a more realistic fighting style, take Strands of Fate with power levels of Action Hero and lower, then put on a stunt system like Exalted's, except just add +s instead of bonus dice, to encourage players to describe attacks and defenses.

[kharmakazy]

They should put together 3.5 compendiums. They would sell hella fast. All base classes in one book. All prestige classes in another. All monster manuals

[The Glyphstone]

They should put together 3.5 compendiums. They would sell hella fast. All base classes in one book. All prestige classes in another. All monster manuals

They'd also be the size of telephone books.

[ngilop]

which is the size of the pathfinder books, yet that has not stopped anybody from buying them.

[Hiro Protagonest]

which is the size of the pathfinder books, yet that has not stopped anybody from buying them.

It is the size of precisely one Pathfinder book. And even then, I think phone books are bigger.

[Dusk Eclipse]

They'd also be the size of telephone books.

Is it wrong that I would still but it even if they were that size?

[maximus25]

It's not wrong, but imagine lugging all those books around.

3 or 4 telephone sized books would not be light, especially with all the other books you'd probably be lugging around in this hypothetical situation where you have to bring your books to a game.

[Eldariel]

3 or 4 telephone sized books would not be light, especially with all the other books you'd probably be lugging around in this hypothetical situation where you have to bring your books to a game.

Eh, anybody who's carried their school books around has done more than that for 10+ years :smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

It's not wrong, but imagine lugging all those books around.

3 or 4 telephone sized books would not be light, especially with all the other books you'd probably be lugging around in this hypothetical situation where you have to bring your books to a game.

One guy brings the PHB, the SpC, and the MIC.

Another guy brings the classes book.

Another guy brings the feats book.

Another guy brings the PrC book.

The last guy brings the subsystem rules. XPH, ToM, ToB, MoI. And maybe Dragon Magic.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Eh, anybody who's carried their school books around has done more than that for 10+ years :smalltongue:

...and this is when I wish we had like buttons for posts.

[Thiyr]

Now I can't stop imagining WotC as Sephiroth.
"Tell me what you cherish the most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away!"

Now I'm imagining WotC as Kefka. "Life... dreams... hope... Where do they come from? And where do they go? Such meaningless things... I'll destroy them all!"


They'd also be the size of telephone books.

Hero System does well enough being a hardcover telephone book. And even then, a feat compendium and class compendium wouldn't be TOO terribly huge if done in a similar style as the MiC and SpC. And even if they were larger, I'd still find them useful. Cuts down on my book-diving quite a bit.

[Roadie]

I'm awfully curious why they're apparently aiming at doing limited reprints, instead of using a tack like White Wolf's print-on-demand strategy to rerelease the entire list (after editing/errata).

Also, if they end up doing a Tome of Battle reprint, does that mean the Tome of Battle errata will actually finally get fixed? :smallbiggrin:

[killem2]

Depending on how much fluffy garbage they throw in it, I wouldn't see a complete feat compedium being longer than 500 pages. The 3.5 DMG is 300+ pages, you might be twice the size, hardly close to a phone book, and it would be highly useful.

I'd like to see a real spell compendium, that has all spells in it. That book, would be a phone book.

[The Glyphstone]

Numbers for perspective:

There are 368 published prestige classes for 3.5 that are not found in setting-specific sourcebooks. They range from 2 to 4 pages of material each, call an arbitrary average of 3. That's 1124 pages of Prestige Classes, or almost twice the size of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. Campaign-specific classes would add another 168, or 504 pages - roughly the same size as the PFCR.

All the base classes (53) would fit into a book only a little bigger than a Complete book.

[Bouregard]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20120625

Fantastic news, even if I did already buy most of my favourite books off eBay. Definitely take the survey in the article - personally, I would give an arm and a leg to see some of the rarer books (especially later ones like Tome of Battle and Magic Item Compendium) reprinted.

I don't know if I'm happy or extremely angry about it. I just spend ca. €200 for used core books because they where not in print anymore... argh

[killem2]

I don't know if I'm happy or extremely angry about it. I just spend ca. €200 for used core books because they where not in print anymore... argh

Best answer is happy, otherwise that'd be pretty selfish. :smallcool:

It sucks, no doubt, I dropped 90.00 on FF tactics back in the day, 1 day before they announced the greatest hit version for 19.99 lol

[Answerer]

Complete Psionics, more than any other book, should absolutely not be reprinted. Can we give negative votes? Because there's just so much awful material in that.

And I would hate for WotC to get away with selling so much filler a second time. The world did not need fifty different "{Weapon Name} Mind Blade" feats.


It sucks, no doubt, I dropped 90.00 on FF tactics back in the day, 1 day before they announced the greatest hit version for 19.99 lol
I bought the PSX version used at a local gamestore for $12. I was shocked and thrilled to see it there. I got Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem in a similar fashion, but unfortunately they only had one copy of that and I gave it to a friend for her birthday (though staying up late to play it with her after her birthday was awesome).

[Yajirobe]

Hmmm I wonder if they will be "pre orderable"

[137beth]

Complete Psionics, more than any other book, should absolutely not be reprinted. Can we give negative votes? Because there's just so much awful material in that.

And I would hate for WotC to get away with selling so much filler a second time. The world did not need fifty different "{Weapon Name} Mind Blade" feats.

Not to mention that a large portion of the good stuff is already open source. ToB is the way to go (and as I said before, I'm not a big fan of ToB...but it's still useful:smallamused:).
And really, Eberron stuff? Why wasn't that included? We might even have more good Eberron material if Keith Baker hadn't entered it into the contest, and was free to give it to 3rd party developers.

[deuxhero]

Not open source/game license, but yeah, Soul Bow is good.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Not open source/game license, but yeah, Soul Bow is good.

Close enough, methinks. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2)

[eggs]

And I would hate for WotC to get away with selling so much filler a second time. The world did not need fifty different "{Weapon Name} Mind Blade" feats.
When Completer Psionics comes out, you just know that somebody will be there, arguing the ingenuity and nuance of the "Wakazashi Mind Blade," "2 more uses of the Kalashtar's Mind Link" and "See, We Can Still Pick Astral Construct Menu Options For You" feats.

[ThiagoMartell]

Best answer is happy, otherwise that'd be pretty selfish. :smallcool:

It sucks, no doubt, I dropped 90.00 on FF tactics back in the day, 1 day before they announced the greatest hit version for 19.99 lol

And FFT is worth every single dime of it. :smallamused:

[DigoDragon]

Eh, anybody who's carried their school books around has done more than that for 10+ years :smalltongue:

Truth.
Half of my group does everything electronically nowadays. Telephone book sized PDFs wouldn't be as bad. Might be a little hard on searches...



That's 1124 pages of Prestige Classes, or almost twice the size of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

And about one-tenth of that being material my players would even bother to use. Reminds me of the old days when I bought CDs just for one song because there wasn't a single of it. :smallsmile:

[Larkas]

And FFT is worth every single dime of it. :smallamused:

Tell me about it. I've been traumatized since circa 2000, precisely since someone threw my FFT manual away :smallfrown:

[Krazzman]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20120625

Fantastic news, even if I did already buy most of my favourite books off eBay. Definitely take the survey in the article - personally, I would give an arm and a leg to see some of the rarer books (especially later ones like Tome of Battle and Magic Item Compendium) reprinted.

**** and I paid 60 Euros for my copy of ToB 2 Months ago...

[Doug Lampert]

**** and I paid 60 Euros for my copy of ToB 2 Months ago...

Lead time on non-print on demand type books is ~6-12 months (notice that Rich still hasn't anounced completion of his reprints, and those are small orders and aren't being updated).

There's no reason to think they're even STARTING the work to get ToB reprinted yet, given that they're conducting a survey to see if there's enough interest.

You've almost certainly saved yourself over a year of delay. Assuming they ever actually do it. If I particularly wanted a copy of ToB I'd buy it now even after the anouncement rather than waiting for the nebulous and possibly non-existent date of the reprint to come along.

[T.G. Oskar]

Now I can't stop imagining WotC as Sephiroth.
"Tell me what you cherish the most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away!"

Now I'm imagining WotC as Kefka. "Life... dreams... hope... Where do they come from? And where do they go? Such meaningless things... I'll destroy them all!"


...and this is when I wish we had like buttons for posts.

...rarely do I see people taking words out of my mouth. Oddly enough, the latter is not related to the former two, but it was just too good to be true. Well played, everyone.

That said, and since I can't post anything without adding a block of text pertaining to the discussion:

Did the survey right on Monday (more like "leapt on it before going to work"), and mostly filled, as most people did, all the stuff I didn't had already (with a few exceptions).

Yes, I believe I voted for Ghostwalk. Probably because of base class completion.

I voted for all of the Races of X books, but that made me lose one of the "it's X outside" books (but certainly not "it's inside"). Odd that I didn't see "it's crowded today"...

I have ToB. I like ToB, though I dissent over how they made new Paladins and Fighters and Monks and whatnot (WotC will prove me otherwise when I see the Warblade, Crusader and Swordsage on the PHB taking over those spots; otherwise, it's just fancy talk), but I really never had a problem with ToB somewhat "disrupting" the system because a) it never did (it made the game even more vast and fun) and b) I have a strong tech-loving background (SaGa!!). I still voted for it, because it's one of the finest books around.

Conversely, except for Complete Champion (my favorite in the Complete books, even if it's a tad short for my satisfaction), I didn't vote for any of the other Completes (I don't think they had Complete Psionics there...I really didn't see it).

I like Magic of Incarnum, I find it quite the original thing, but I declined voting for it because it's one of the cheapest books around. It can be found anywhere easily for 20 bucks.

Also, anyone mentioned for what they voted last? I recall the foundations of crunch (classes, PrCs, feats, subsystems, which I voted for), and not the rest (for which I didn't).

[Morph Bark]

Just last September I paid someone 270 euros for the following:
PHBII
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Deities and Demigods
Complete Divine
Complete Champion
Complete Mage
Complete Psionics
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer
Complete Scoundrel
Their 3.0 versions (like Masters of the Wild)
Races of the Wild
Libris Mortis
Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
Champions of Valor
Champions of Ruin
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Manual of the Planes
City of the Spider Queen
Stronghold Builder's Guidebook
Faiths and Pantheons
Some Green Ronin books about single classes

Sometimes, life can be good to me. :smallbiggrin:


I voted for all of the Races of X books, but that made me lose one of the "it's X outside" books (but certainly not "it's inside"). Odd that I didn't see "it's crowded today"...

Do you mean Cityscape with the former or the latter? I've always seen it called "It's NOT Outside" and Dungeonscape "It's Dark Inside".

[The Dark Fiddler]

Do you mean Cityscape with the former or the latter? I've always seen it called "It's NOT Outside" and Dungeonscape "It's Dark Inside".

I thought Cityscape was It's Sometimes Outside, and Dungeonsscape was It's Not Outside? :smallconfused:

[sonofzeal]

I thought Cityscape was It's Sometimes Outside, and Dungeonsscape was It's Not Outside? :smallconfused:
This was my understanding too.

[Jarian]

I always just called them Cityscape and Dungeonscape. I guess I'm boring like that. :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

I called Dungeonscape "It's Not Outside' and Cityscape "It's Crowded Outside" myself.

[LansXero]

What I still dont get is why not, along with the core reprints, release paid pdfs of everything else in the edition. Then they can gauge by the downloads how much actual interest there is on each book, far better than with a silly poll. And it costs far far less than a new print run, so it has almost no risk.

[The Glyphstone]

Because they think selling PDFs will 'give pirates high-quality material to distribute'.

[Mordokai]

What I still dont get is why not, along with the core reprints, release paid pdfs of everything else in the edition. Then they can gauge by the downloads how much actual interest there is on each book, far better than with a silly poll. And it costs far far less than a new print run, so it has almost no risk.


Because they think selling PDFs will 'give pirates high-quality material to distribute'.

Apart from that, I am not willing to pay a friggin' cent for a pdf that I can get for free, albeit of a little lesser quality. I realize that pdf's would likely be much cheaper than dead tree version of the book, but I would personally pay 20 euros for the latter, rather than three euros for the former every day of the week.

Again, this is personal preference and I am a dinosaur like that. But I am also willing to bet there are a lot of dinosaurs like that out there.

[killem2]

Pirates are there to keep the big business aware of their bullcrap treatment of customers.

D&D 3.5 books are not, and should not be considered collectible items. However, like most crapwizards of the coast deal with is collectible garbage.

[Prof. X]

Its sad that they are only reprinting thr core rulebooks inalready have those off of amazon

[Worira]

Because they think selling PDFs will 'give pirates high-quality material to distribute'.

Man I ain't naming no names but that sure is not the obstacle that is going on here

[Eldariel]

Apart from that, I am not willing to pay a friggin' cent for a pdf that I can get for free, albeit of a little lesser quality. I realize that pdf's would likely be much cheaper than dead tree version of the book, but I would personally pay 20 euros for the latter, rather than three euros for the former every day of the week.

Again, this is personal preference and I am a dinosaur like that. But I am also willing to bet there are a lot of dinosaurs like that out there.

I know many people prefer to read paper over computer screen. Me and most of my friends included. Just the same as I prefer rolling dice to pressing a button on the computer and letting the computer roll a die for me.

[Answerer]

Re: piracy, like just about every anti-piracy measure ever, that's doomed to failure. I haven't specifically looked for D&D books, but I'm sure it's out there, and it's probably about as high-quality as Wizards will produce.


I called Dungeonscape "It's Not Outside' and Cityscape "It's Crowded Outside" myself.
I do the same.

[Morph Bark]

I thought Cityscape was It's Sometimes Outside, and Dungeonsscape was It's Not Outside? :smallconfused:

I called Dungeonscape "It's Not Outside' and Cityscape "It's Crowded Outside" myself.

I never heard those nicknames for Cityscape before. Granted, I never liked the name "It's Not Outside", for its vagueness and unoriginality, while of course liking "It's Dark Inside".

"It's Crowded Outside" works for me though.

We at least agree that the other three are "It's Hot/Cold/Wet Outside" respectively though, yes? :smalltongue:

[Tyndmyr]

Because they think selling PDFs will 'give pirates high-quality material to distribute'.

Amusing, but yeah...that's an unfortunately common viewpoint.

Hint for all publishers: The only way to avoid your material being pirated is to not have it be popular. Seriously, just sell it to those of us who want to buy it.

[Answerer]

We at least agree that the other three are "It's Hot/Cold/Wet Outside" respectively though, yes? :smalltongue:
Sandstorm could be "It's Dry Outside" if one wanted to contrast it more with Stormwrack than Frostburn. I've never heard anyone actually do so though, it's just a thing I've noticed.

[imneuromancer]

I wish that they would have someone re-edit the material and release the following:

1) Core Rulebook

2) Complete Race Guide (Core + savage species, plus race books)

3) Complete Settings Guide (i.e. Frostburn, Shipwrecked, etc. etc.)

4) Complete Class Guide (Core + splats)

5) Complete Spell Guide (Core +Spc + splats)

6) Complete DMG (all the stuff you need to create and run a campaign)

7) Complete Magic Item Guide (Core + MIC + splats)

Basically, make 3.5 a complete game, without further expansions, with all of the rules in one easy-to-find-and-indexed set of books.

MAYBE have the following rules changes:
1) make sure all of the classes have updated and logical spell lists based on the Spell Guide

2) Small tweaks to character classes or prestige classes to allow them to make sense given all of the books

3) Addition of things like immediate and swift actions in CORE rules

4) errata and balancing of some of the most woefully under-testing aspects (get rid of infinite loops, enforce polymorph subschool, etc.)

[lordstimpy]

As someone who's relativally new to playing DnD and 3.5, I'm excited for the reprints. My brother gave me his core set when I started playing and finding the other books have been a pain.

[mattie_p]

So, for those of you who have heard Christmas winter festival seasonal songs on the radio in the past 60 years, does this discussion of the It's Cold/Hot/Wet/Not/Crowded Outside books remind you of the song, "Baby, It's Cold Outside?" I can't help but sing the song in my head throughout this entire thread as we discuss the various climate splatbooks.

On another note, how is this a popular song? At a minimum it describes sexual harassment, at worst its date-rape.

[EccentricCircle]

I thought Cityscape was It's Sometimes Outside, and Dungeonsscape was It's Not Outside? :smallconfused:

Given how much confusion is caused whenever they're mentioned its a wonder people are still trying to use nicknames for those books...

[zanetheinsane]

In the interest of not making a new thread I figured I'd put this in here: http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/Sales/Solicitations/2012_06_26_Solicitation_en_US.pdf

So we get new covers and included errata, which I approve of. I would love to see some images of the new covers, if WotC even has them ready. I guess they're waiting until August to really fire up the hype machine.

I'm glad they realized that 3.5e is basically a way for them to just mint money. So sad that it took them this long to figure it out. I eagerly await adding these to my collection.

As far as "collecting" 3.5 books, anybody who is patient enough can easily acquire a full collection from eBay at a ridiculously low cost. I put together all the official 3.0 and 3.5 books for around $10-$15 a book (Oriental Adventures was a $0.99 initial bid win!). Buying them in lots helps and being patient and checking in every day is the way to do it. And yes I even got Spell Compendium for that cheap; got it in a lot that somebody found in an apartment (Love seeing "I have no idea what these are worth..." in auctions). Got the three leatherbound books in perfect condition for $100. Total, not each.

I'm not saying they aren't a collector's item, but there are a lot of 3.5 books out there and a lot of nerds who grew up and got married/had kids or got stressful jobs and no longer have enough time to play. Just watch ebay and don't jump at the first thing you see because there will be 2-3 more auctions right behind it.

[Wonton]

As far as "collecting" 3.5 books, anybody who is patient enough can easily acquire a full collection from eBay at a ridiculously low cost. I put together all the official 3.0 and 3.5 books for around $10-$15 a book

Keep in mind that for those of us who live outside the US, the $10-15 book is apt to turn into a $20-30 book. At least. (some people apparently think $44 for international shipping to Canada is a fair deal)

[sonofzeal]

Keep in mind that for those of us who live outside the US, the $10-15 book is apt to turn into a $20-30 book. At least. (some people apparently think $44 for international shipping to Canada is a fair deal)
...because it's obviously more expensive to ship from NY to Toronto, than it it to LA...

[Wonton]

...because it's obviously more expensive to ship from NY to Toronto, than it it to LA...

Heh, I know right? To be fair, I don't know how our customs work so it may very well be (there are probably some tariffs somewhere in there). But still, I think $7 is a very reasonable price for a light book, or $10 for a heavy book or a package of light books - those are actual shipping prices I've seen (and bought things at) before. Going on ebay.com RIGHT NOW, I see that most of the 3.5 books have shipping in the $20-30 range. :smallannoyed:

[mattie_p]

I got burned in an ebay auction shipping a CD to Canada. This was about 10 years ago. There were basically two options, ground parcel post or something like that and the priority ship option. Priority ship cost about $15 (for a CD!) and ground post was like 2 bucks or something. Only thing was, ground post took over 30 days from pickup to delivery. I got negative feedback because the guy didn't want to pay for priority and the delivery was "late." (to be fair, I wouldn't pay 15 bucks for shipping a CD either).

I think that you're actually lucky if you can find a seller willing to ship to Canada. Stinks about the extra cost for shipping, not to mention exchange rate between dollars and dollars.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by zanetheinsane
*update*

Well, their "premium" prices will ensure I'm not a customer for these reprints. I can't fathom paying $50.00 for a new binding of something I already own.

I'm sure any number of people will, but it still irks me that Wizards takes us that much for granted. What's next, a premium ToB with little spiked chains hanging off?

[Agent 451]

Nope. Premium Tome of Magic with bright neon/iridescent/gilded binding to reflect the fact that binders are still the only class to pay attention to.

Edit: So the website that was listed a few posts back lists "latest errata," all in bold. Does that mean they are actually doing a second round of erratas for the core books?

[ThiagoMartell]

So the website that was listed a few posts back lists "latest errata," all in bold. Does that mean they are actually doing a second round of erratas for the core books?

No. It just means the latest errata, which was never printed along with any edition of the PHB.

[Curmudgeon]

...because it's obviously more expensive to ship from NY to Toronto, than it it to LA...
New York to Los Angeles? It's also the same price to ship from the U.S. Virgin Islands to Guam (halfway around the world, pretty much) via USPS.