Killing the Summoner

[Vouru]

My party and I as well as are DM finished a session a little wile ago, During an encounter with some cleric's and an lich one of the clerics summoned a large water elemental to block our escape route, but the next round the lich killed that cleric.

We were unsure what happens to the water elemental we ended up agreeing that if the summoner dies the summon dispels but we could note find any rules to support this decision.

Dose any one know anything about what happens to summon spells (and other spells that have a duration) if the caster dies after they cast it?

[Urpriest]

The spells keep going. This isn't a fairy tale: once you do something, it stays.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The spell's duration is the spell's duration, unfortunately. Some spells (like polymorph) specifically say they end when you die; others like concentration duration ones are self-evident.

The summon would remain, by RAW. Probably following out whatever the last instruction it received was, and then doing nothing but fighting back against those that attack it after doing that task.

As a DM I would be fine w/ making it go poof; summons are already pretty nasty towards the PCs since they give no xp or treasure. One of the meanest things a DM can do: *NPC summons up a ton of crap, blocks off the exits, and teleports out. Suck it.*

[maximus25]

The summon stays.

Once it's summoned, it acts under it's own power, it doesn't need the wizard to sustain it. Once the spell ends, the summon goes away however.

Just the same as if you had an anti-magic field up and someone killed you. The anti-magic field stays but you're dead.

[Vouru]

Wow.. That was fast ^_^



The spells keep going. This isn't a fairy tale: once you do something, it stays.

Well technically since D&D is about making up a story with your friends where magic and dragons exist it sort of is a fairy tale lol.

That said to be more specific we are playing pathfinder (pretty much D&D 3.75) an our reasoning was that spells need the caster to maintain them. But I can see how in RAW the spells would go on for a wile longer. Though this also means other spells like Mage armor lasts even if the caster was already killed.

[Urpriest]

Well technically since D&D is about making up a story with your friends where magic and dragons exist it sort of is a fairy tale lol.

That said to be more specific we are playing pathfinder (pretty much D&D 3.75) an our reasoning was that spells need the caster to maintain them. But I can see how in RAW the spells would go on for a wile longer. Though this also means other spells like Mage armor lasts even if the caster was already killed.

It's a fantasy story, but it doesn't happen to be that particular genre of fantasy story. D&D is a world in which magic, by default, changes the world around it. If the rules want a spell to need the caster to maintain them, they use duration: concentration. Spells that don't require concentration don't require a caster to maintain them.

[Spuddles]

I have always ruled that spells whose targets are no longer legal targets fail to stay on. So someone who had mage armor up and died would lose mage armor, as mage armor targets creatures and not objects.

[Slipperychicken]

This kind of thing also creates the situation where you kill someone affected by Overland Flight or similar, then he's just sort of unceremoniously hanging there while you try to loot him. It can also be a powerful message; seeing a corpse just hanging in the air, probably naked and otherwise defiled, possibly with a message carved into it.

[Fitz10019]

In support of your group's interpretation, the disappearing summons is what happens in the Neverwinter Nights PC game when the caster dies. Maybe someone at your table played that game, and felt confident "that's how it works."

As said, in 3.5 the spell duration does not change. On the other hand, I think it's fair to re-examine what the summons will choose to do with it's remaining time. It may choose to retreat in the absence of it's summoner/commander, in some cases. If it has no understanding of the duration of the spell, it may choose to head to Vegas, or your campaign's equivalent.

[Uhtred]

You could house rule then that it depends on the summoned creature, what it chooses to do with its remaining duration. Elementals and other construct-y guys would do what they were last told and defend themselves as they do it/once they do it, and nothing else, while folk like Djinni or other intelligent creatures who wouldn't naturally dig being pressed into service would do what THEY do; rejoice at their summoner's doom and flutter off until the duration is over. Creatures that REALLY wouldn't want to be there apart from the summons might even help the party a little before they go. Imagine an evil Cleric summoning a minor fiend of some kind and ordering it to attack you, essentially a suicide mission. The Cleric dies, and the fiend, striking one last blow at the Cleric who summoned it, reveals some critical bit of plot before vanishing in a puff of brimstone. Might as well have fun with it.