How do ghosts get new gear?

[danzibr]

Suppose you want to play a ghost for whatever reason (the Ghostwalk ghost or the regular one), or actually any incorporeal creature. How would they do so?

I'm interested in building an Eidolon, but... if I can't get any gear, that's sort of a bummer. VoP Eidolon?

[Flickerdart]

The same way everyone gets gear - by killing someone shaped like them and taking their stuff.

[Urpriest]

Ghostly Grasp in Libris Mortis is basically mandatory for an incorporeal character.

[danzibr]

Ghostly Grasp in Libris Mortis is basically mandatory for an incorporeal character.
Oh, I see. Man, that makes things easy. So an incorporeal creature can use normal stuff... I suppose it's optional, so if they want they can turn it off and pass through walls, but lose their stuff.

[Firest Kathon]

Another way is to acquire the gear on the ethereal plane (either by "liberating" it from other creatures or by having someone send it over there).

[Dimers]

They just go and boo-y it in a store. Well, after they scare up the money.

:smallbiggrin:

[Toliudar]

Ghostly Grasp in Libris Mortis is basically mandatory for an incorporeal character.

Wow. Klepto ghost rogue. Absolutely the heart of my next high level sneak-build. Thanks, Urpriest!

[Psyren]

Psion Uncarnate (especially the Pathfinder version) is a great way to be an incorporeal character with minimal baggage.

[HeadlessMermaid]

I'm not familiar with Eidolon, but I'll copy/paste some stuff I'd written long ago about ghosts and equipment. Good luck.

By RAW (and indeed, common sense), you are effectively stuck with the equipment you had when you acquired the template, or at least when you begin the game with WBL. Yes, you can use any ghost touch armor/weapons you find along the way, and you can get the Ghostly Grasp feat as soon as possible. But non-Ghost Touch items (anything except weapons and armor) remain corporeal even with Ghostly Grasp. You can't travel through walls carrying them.

So, if the adventure isn't very very short, if you ever expect to level up and get better gear, your DM must be kind enough to provide treasure hand-picked for you, from ethereal opponents. Or introduce to the campaign a wondrous Ethereal Magick Shoppe. Or handwave the whole business and inexplicably upgrade your equipment every time you level up. Or houserule that Ghostly Grasp makes items incorporeal/ethereal as long as you carry them. If he refuses to do at least one of the above (and let's face it, he has every right), then frankly, you're screwed. You'll have to leave your new stuff behind every time you go through the ceiling.


Prefer Eternal Wands (MIC) over normal wands, because charges get used up, and any new wands you buy won't go through walls with you, even if you can actually hold them.

You fear force effects. If you want to avoid the humiliation of dying from Magic Missile, buy an Eternal Wand of Shield, and/or a humble Brooch of Shielding (DMG, 1500 gp). This becomes non-functional eventually, so buy several, they're quite cheap.

Definitely get some way to teleport out of Force traps: buy an Anklet of Translocation (MIC, 1400 gp, swift action teleport 10 ft, 2/day), Boots of Big Stepping (MIC, 6000 gp, standard action teleport 60 ft, 3/day), something.

A Veil of Allure (MIC, 14000 gp) gives +2 DC to all your Supernatural Cha-based abilities, i.e. your ghost special attacks.

A Cloak of Turn Resistance (LM, 11000 gp) gives you another +4 Vs Turn/Rebuke, your most glaring weakness.

The Ghost Touch weapon property can be easily and cheaply acquired with a Lesser Truedeath Crystal (MIC, 5000 gp).

Ring of X-Ray Vision (DMG, 25000 gp): For scouting missions and a safe retreat. There's only one thing sneakier than a sneaky ghost, and that's a sneaky ghost inside the wall or ground, looking out. Buy this, and laugh at people who can see ethereal. The only thing that can now reveal your position is Mindsight (or see ethereal and the exact same ring, obviously). Beware of the small, 20 ft range, though.

Save up your money (in a friend's purse) until you can afford a nice Tome of Leadership. You won't need the tome after you read it, and you get the inherent bonus permanently.

[danzibr]

Thanks! This reinforces the VoP Eidolon idea.

[Amidus Drexel]

On the topic of ghosts, is there any reason a (relatively) high-level caster ghost couldn't just plane shift to the material plane and effectively be immortal?

[Heatwizard]

On the topic of ghosts, is there any reason a (relatively) high-level caster ghost couldn't just plane shift to the material plane and effectively be immortal?

It would probably piss off the inevitables. DMG projectiles, as well.

[Amidus Drexel]

It would probably piss off the inevitables. DMG projectiles, as well.

Especially if they get to use manifestation and malevolence while they're on the material plane. :smallbiggrin:

[HeadlessMermaid]

On the topic of ghosts, is there any reason a (relatively) high-level caster ghost couldn't just plane shift to the material plane and effectively be immortal?
How would that work?

I'd say that a plane-shifted ghost is simply an incorporeal creature. Tricky to get, but hardly immortal. Unlike when it's lurking in the ethereal plane, now it's actually there, it can be targeted and harmed by anything that can target and harm incorporeal. Ghost Touch weapons and assorted items, Vortex of Teeth and assorted spells...

...What do you suppose happens when a ghost plane shifts? :smallconfused:

[Wookie-ranger]

If i remember correctly i read somewhere that a ghost can in fact get new equipment.
They have the equipment that is on their 'body' (or at least very very close). You know; the dead meat bag that you left behind in a tomb. I don't remember where i read it though...

[Hiro Protagonest]

How would that work?

I'd say that a plane-shifted ghost is simply an incorporeal creature. Tricky to get, but hardly immortal. Unlike when it's lurking in the ethereal plane, now it's actually there, it can be targeted and harmed by anything that can target and harm incorporeal. Ghost Touch weapons and assorted items, Vortex of Teeth and assorted spells...

...What do you suppose happens when a ghost plane shifts? :smallconfused:

He said immortal, not invincible.

[Flickerdart]

If i remember correctly i read somewhere that a ghost can in fact get new equipment.
They have the equipment that is on their 'body' (or at least very very close). You know; the dead meat bag that you left behind in a tomb. I don't remember where i read it though...
You're thinking of demiliches.

[Amidus Drexel]

How would that work?

I'd say that a plane-shifted ghost is simply an incorporeal creature. Tricky to get, but hardly immortal. Unlike when it's lurking in the ethereal plane, now it's actually there, it can be targeted and harmed by anything that can target and harm incorporeal. Ghost Touch weapons and assorted items, Vortex of Teeth and assorted spells...

...What do you suppose happens when a ghost plane shifts? :smallconfused:

In case I was unclear, I meant immortal as ageless, not unkillable.

spoilered for length


Monster Manual Page 118
Manifestation (Su): Every ghost has this ability. A ghost dwells on the Ethereal Plane and, as an ethereal creature, it cannot affect or be affected by anything in the material world. When a ghost manifests, it partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane. A manifested ghost can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. A manifested ghost can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor. A manifested ghost always moves silently.
A manifested ghost can strike with its touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon (see Ghostly Equipment, below). A manifested ghost remains partially on the Ethereal Plane, where is it not incorporeal. A manifested ghost can be attacked by opponents on either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. The ghost’s incorporeality helps protect it from foes on the Material Plane, but not from foes on the Ethereal Plane.


I would think that ghosts remain corporeal when they plane shift, given that they normally are corporeal (just on the ethereal plane). That being said, it probably isn't a better option than remaining ethereal.

[HeadlessMermaid]

He said immortal, not invincible.
:smallconfused:
A ghost is already immortal. If destroyed, it "respawns" a few days later, because it has unfinished business - that's why it's a ghost in the first place. The only way to get permanently rid of it is to take care of whatever unresolved issues is keeping it from the afterlife.

Also, a vanilla ethereal ghost is much safer from a plane-shifted one, at least from material opponents. It fears only force effects and abjurations. On the other hand, a plane-shifted ghost fears force effects, abjurations AND anything that targets incorporeal.

...Unless you have a totally different idea about what happens when a ghost plane shifts to the material, in which case I'm very curious what it is.


EDIT for Amidus Drexel's reply:


In case I was unclear, I meant immortal as ageless, not unkillable.
As I said above, they're already ageless. They're undead for Pete's sake, they don't get older. :smalltongue:


I would think that ghosts remain corporeal when they plane shift, given that they normally are corporeal (just on the ethereal plane). That being said, it probably isn't a better option than remaining ethereal.
Well, I said a plane shifted ghost would be incorporeal, because it has the incorporeal subtype. It's not just a denizen of the ethereal plane who happens to be incorporeal when it's there, it's in its nature to be incorporeal.

But if you think it will become corporeal on the material, then it's even worse! Half its defenses are now gone. No Cha to AC, no miss chance, no nothing. How on earth is that better from staying on the ethereal for safety and manifesting when you want to attack?

[Hiro Protagonest]

:smallconfused:
A ghost is already immortal.

...

As I said above, they're already ageless. They're undead for Pete's sake, they don't get older. :smalltongue:

That's his point. Dying and Plane Shifting is a shortcut to immortality.

[HeadlessMermaid]

That's his point. Dying and Plane Shifting is a shortcut to immortality.
LOL, now I got it.

Yeah, OK, that's when the DM simply says "OK, be a ghost then, what's your unfinished business again?", and proceeds to finish it. :smalltongue:

[Amidus Drexel]

EDIT: ninja'd

@Headless Mermaid

But if you think it will become corporeal on the material, then it's even worse! Half its defenses are now gone. No Cha to AC, no miss chance, no nothing. How on earth is that better from staying on the ethereal for safety and manifesting when you want to attack?

Ah, you're thinking from a practical standpoint. I was just suggesting it as something a ghost could do. As far as a defense strategy, it is pretty bad.

@Jade Dragon

That's his point. Dying and Plane Shifting is a shortcut to immortality.

Pretty much. Not advocating it as a good way of defending yourself, though.

And then, just when they think they've killed you, you come back to life at full power.

[Vizzerdrix]

If i remember correctly i read somewhere that a ghost can in fact get new equipment.
They have the equipment that is on their 'body' (or at least very very close). You know; the dead meat bag that you left behind in a tomb. I don't remember where i read it though...

MM1. In the ghost description. Wait, let me check before posting.... Yup. MM1 page 118 has a section on Ghostly Equipment. I'm looking right at it.

[TuggyNE]

MM1. In the ghost description. Wait, let me check before posting.... Yup. MM1 page 118 has a section on Ghostly Equipment. I'm looking right at it.

That doesn't mention any ability to add to the stash, which is probably what the point of this thread is.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... True.

Maybe this will help? (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2658.0)

[Wabbajack]

Libirs Mortis p141: "Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature's possession."

Combine that fact with the Ghostly Grasp feat and there is no problem getting new equipment.

[HeadlessMermaid]

Libirs Mortis p141: "Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature's possession."

Combine that fact with the Ghostly Grasp feat and there is no problem getting new equipment.
This is the wording of Ghostly Grasp: "You can wear, wield, and otherwise use corporeal items as though you were not incorporeal." (Emphasis mine.) And if it's as though you were NOT incorporeal, then the rules regarding incorporeal creatures and equipment do not apply. All the rules. Both the one that says "you can't touch this, cause it's material" and the one that says "but if by any chance you do (say, Ghost Touch property), it's now incorporeal".

That said, if a DM chose to interpret all this beneficially for the ghost, I'd be absolutely fine with it. :)

[Wookie-ranger]

Libirs Mortis p141: "Any equipment worn or carried by an incorporeal creature is also incorporeal as long as it remains in the creature's possession."

Combine that fact with the Ghostly Grasp feat and there is no problem getting new equipment.

that's where i read it! thanks.
Its been bugging me, bc i knew i read it somewhere. I am not insane after all (well, less anyway)

[Gavinfoxx]

I second reading the ghost guide/handbook, previously linked in this thread.