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RandomNPC
2012-06-25, 04:44 PM
I'm part of this group with an evil monk who's trying to manipulate us into all kinds of dirty work for him. Every game the DM drops a hint or two about his intentions and nobody picks up on it.

He made a deal with mindflayers and got some template from MM4 or MM5, I'm not sure, and when the flayers got killed by the BBEG he went inert for a few days at the same time the flayers constructs stopped. NOBODY else spotted this. As a monk he forced two will saves vs. suggestion spells before the flayers died. The people hit by them? No questions at all. BBEG looked under his hat and commented on the Mindflayers markings. Healers summoned unicorn pointed him out as evil. In a circle of protection against evil (healers unicorn) the monk couldn't make an unarmed attack. Some knight like fellow approached at night, I talked to him on first watch, he wanted to hire us but wanted to talk to everyone, so he set up his bedroll, monk took second watch, and the guy "Got up and left" sometime in the night.

That's just what I can remember.

I'm "in the loop" and this guy is big on calling out metagamers, any suggestions for opening someones eyes? I've asked questions about the knights disappearance, and the town he claimed to be from asked if we saw him, I made the most of a "Monk saw hm last" story and the part just shrugged it off.

I'm about to blow his cover to all the players OOC and quit the game, but I respect the DM to much.

Oracle_Hunter
2012-06-25, 05:21 PM
I'm "in the loop" and this guy is big on calling out metagamers, any suggestions for opening someones eyes? I've asked questions about the knights disappearance, and the town he claimed to be from asked if we saw him, I made the most of a "Monk saw hm last" story and the part just shrugged it off.

I'm about to blow his cover to all the players OOC and quit the game, but I respect the DM to much.
Um, what is motivating you to quit the group about this situation? :smallconfused:

RandomNPC
2012-06-25, 06:55 PM
Um, what is motivating you to quit the group about this situation? :smallconfused:

They come together to play D&D but are so wrapped up in themselves they don't pick up any of the clues. I didn't mention it because I don't want the conversation to go that way, I want in game suggestions, but here's the run down.

Guy A: Has to show someone anime on his phone every 20 minuets or I swear he'll explode. It's always poorly veiled soft-core fan service.
Guy B: Always brings up "This one party I went to..." and talks across the table at whoever might be looking his way at all.
Guy C: Played the healer with the unicorn. DM looked right at him with everyone in the room, pointed at the monk, and said "He's evil"

C and myself are the only two who heard a thing with the unicorn. C brushed it off and I couldn't get anyone to pay attention long enough to make my case about "Hey guys! Evil dude right there!"

My point isn't that they're all distracted out of game, it's that when they're in game they still don't care, and how can I pose a question or point something out without the guy who fears metagamers calling me out on it.

Driderman
2012-06-25, 06:55 PM
I'm part of this group with an evil monk who's trying to manipulate us into all kinds of dirty work for him. Every game the DM drops a hint or two about his intentions and nobody picks up on it.

He made a deal with mindflayers and got some template from MM4 or MM5, I'm not sure, and when the flayers got killed by the BBEG he went inert for a few days at the same time the flayers constructs stopped. NOBODY else spotted this. As a monk he forced two will saves vs. suggestion spells before the flayers died. The people hit by them? No questions at all. BBEG looked under his hat and commented on the Mindflayers markings. Healers summoned unicorn pointed him out as evil. In a circle of protection against evil (healers unicorn) the monk couldn't make an unarmed attack. Some knight like fellow approached at night, I talked to him on first watch, he wanted to hire us but wanted to talk to everyone, so he set up his bedroll, monk took second watch, and the guy "Got up and left" sometime in the night.

That's just what I can remember.

I'm "in the loop" and this guy is big on calling out metagamers, any suggestions for opening someones eyes? I've asked questions about the knights disappearance, and the town he claimed to be from asked if we saw him, I made the most of a "Monk saw hm last" story and the part just shrugged it off.

I'm about to blow his cover to all the players OOC and quit the game, but I respect the DM to much.

I don't really understand why this needs OOC resolution. Obviously, if your party mates won't listen to reason you'll just have to take matters into your own hands (IC'ly) before the monk puts their lives in jeopardy.

Response to ninjapost: Sounds like the guy playing monk might actually be the most involved of the other players, why would you want to antagonize him OOC'ly?
If you can pull it off reasonably, maybe your character should join forces with Evil Monk guy and you kill off the rest of the party together. I suppose that might teach them a thing or two about paying attention.
Of course, it doesn't really seem especially conducive to further adventuring, but having an evil PC in a non-evil party seldom does.

Alternately, you need to find a way to save the monk from his evilness.

HeadlessMermaid
2012-06-25, 07:02 PM
C and myself are the only two who heard a thing with the unicorn. C brushed it off and I couldn't get anyone to pay attention long enough to make my case about "Hey guys! Evil dude right there!"
Did you hear that IC or OOC? If you heard it OOC, and if the only reasons you're "in the loop", as you say, are also OOC, then the evil dude's player is right. You have no reason to suspect him IC, so you shouldn't metagame.

If you heard it IC, then handle it IC. Take the Good characters aside and warn them, kill him yourself, I dunno, whatever fits your character.

Distracted and uncaring players are another matter, though, and it has nothing to do with the evil monk...

Oracle_Hunter
2012-06-25, 07:12 PM
My point isn't that they're all distracted out of game, it's that when they're in game they still don't care, and how can I pose a question or point something out without the guy who fears metagamers calling me out on it.
So... you don't like playing with these guys. Why are you still playing with these guys? :smallconfused:

* * *

The idea behind this question is that the "cluelessness" of the characters isn't actually what's important to this situation. You are unhappy with this game, and it appears the reason you are unhappy is that the other Players are not playing the sort of game you're interested in. So, rather than concoct some elaborate ruse to try and force them to play your game (e.g. rub their nose in the fact that there is an Evil PC, despite the fact they obviously don't care about that) why not just quit the game? Nothing you do IC is going to solve the OOC gripes you have with these folks -- i.e. that they're not paying enough attention to the game -- so how about you save yourself some stress and find a different group?

Rorrik
2012-06-25, 07:12 PM
I understand that you're worried that if you call him out IC he'll accuse you of using OOC information, even though you have plenty of IC information to have caught it. All the same, that seems like the best course of action.

Alternately, it could be really fun to side with him, or better yet, pretend to side with him and then betray him later. What is your alignment? Chaotic Neutral or even Chaotic Good could make this doable. Approach his IC and say, "friend, I know there's something off about you. What's your angle? I want in." Suddenly your character has plenty of IC information.

INDYSTAR188
2012-06-25, 07:27 PM
This is a very interesting discussion. In my group we have the exact opposite problem - everyone OOC hears whats being said to a specific player in a dream sequence in the abyss. He wakes up screaming and now all of a sudden no one trusts him and we get a lot of 'my character would be suspicious because he's trained in religion and arcana'. As to your situation, I wouldn't quit and I wouldn't kill the Monk. I would talk to the DM outside of game hours and mention your problem. See if he's also found it to be a problem and then you guys could bring it up next game. Your 'in' to exposing the monk is uncovering the truth behind the missing Knight. Obviously something happened there, you all met him, had an agreement and he just leaves? Plus his own people don't know where he's at!

dps
2012-06-25, 08:23 PM
So... you don't like playing with these guys. Why are you still playing with these guys? :smallconfused:

* * *

The idea behind this question is that the "cluelessness" of the characters isn't actually what's important to this situation. You are unhappy with this game, and it appears the reason you are unhappy is that the other Players are not playing the sort of game you're interested in. So, rather than concoct some elaborate ruse to try and force them to play your game (e.g. rub their nose in the fact that there is an Evil PC, despite the fact they obviously don't care about that) why not just quit the game? Nothing you do IC is going to solve the OOC gripes you have with these folks -- i.e. that they're not paying enough attention to the game -- so how about you save yourself some stress and find a different group?

This. It doesn't sound like your problems are really with the characters, as such, but with the players.

RandomNPC
2012-06-25, 09:44 PM
The missing Knight was met by guy A, C, and a caster I haven't had an issue with as well as myself. A and C had rings of sustinance and woke up as I was talking to the knight, I woke the caster up because she can put our story so far together better than my character. Basically the dwarf slept through it, A and C pretended not to see him, and the caster needed rest and ignored everything.

The entire group was present for the "He's evil" from the unicorn. When the BBEG took his hat and saw illithid chew marks I was the only one without line of sight. We all saw mindflayer constructs go haywire the same time he took a 3 day nap. My character had a nightmare (spell effect) where the BBEG and minion appeared and the monk was enslaved by BBEG.

I don't want to quit the group on 2 reasons, 1: quitting the way I want to would ruin the DMs game, and I respect him to much for that. 2: The group contains 2 (DM included) of the 3 people I'd call a close friend, and may pull in the third soon if someone else misses another game.

Oracle_Hunter
2012-06-25, 09:50 PM
I don't want to quit the group on 2 reasons, 1: quitting the way I want to would ruin the DMs game, and I respect him to much for that. 2: The group contains 2 (DM included) of the 3 people I'd call a close friend, and may pull in the third soon if someone else misses another game.
(1) Sometimes the best way to go out isn't with a bang. Just tell the DM that "the game isn't working out for you" and stop coming. No drama, no theatrics. Just stop playing a game that's driving you crazy.

(2) You can be friends with people without being in their games. And you'll still be friends if you leave the game before doing something that ruins their fun.

For Reference: Geek Social Fallacies (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html)

Driderman
2012-06-26, 06:19 AM
Yeah, after reading your further responses I think it's pretty obvious this is something that needs to be resolved OOC'ly.
As already mentioned, you should probably just let your group amiably know that you're not really into their unattentive playstyle and quit.

Barring that, have a talk with the DM about your issues and then call a group meeting to discuss it with the entire playing group. It might just be that everybody else actually agrees with you, but thinks they're the only ones.

Just be prepared that once your start complaining about other people's playing styles, whatever beef they have with yours (and undoubtedly someone will have some form of beef) will also be out of the bag. This can be good or bad, depending on how good you and your friends are at received criticism.

Jay R
2012-06-26, 08:16 AM
If you solve both problems - if you convince everyone that the monk is evil, and also talk to everyone about their lack of attention to the game, ...

Nothing significant will change.

Oh, sure, you'll fight the monk. But when it's over, one guy will be showing manga, one will be talking about a party he went to, and the third will ignore what the DM says to him directly.

That's who these people are. That's the way they are going to play.