3.5: Determining NPC Encounters' Treasure Values

[Adept_Scholar]

How much treasure would, say, a 2nd-level NPC fighter have/give? Table 5-1: "Character Wealth by Level" on page 135 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide shows 2nd-level characters having a total of 900gp in wealth; however, Table 4-23: "NPC Gear Value" on page 127 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide says a 2nd-level NPC has gear valued at 2,000gp...How could such a 2nd-level NPC have 2,000gp in gear, yet a total worth/wealth of 900gp? :smallconfused: Does this mean the NPC has 900gp in coin/items for an actual total wealth of 2,900gp? In addition, Table 3-3: "Treasure Values Per Encounter" on page 51 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide states an EL 2 would provide an average of 600gp, so am I correct then in assuming this example of a 2nd-level NPC fighter encounter would simply be worth a lot more than the "average"? Also what about the treasure value of a NPC with a NPC class rather than a PC one? I don't think it makes much sense for a 5th-level NPC commoner, for example, to be worth the same reward upon defeating as a 5th-level NPC fighter (although I could see aristocrats and experts, especially travelling merchants, being worth the same as their NPC PC class-based level equivalents).

[Urpriest]

Ok, first is first: this is very basic stuff, which indicates there may be a lot of other basic stuff you need to learn, so I'd recommend reading my monster guide, link in sig.

That said: Table 5-1 is for PCs, and has nothing to do with NPCs.

4-23 has the correct values for NPC gear.

NPCs will generally have around three times the standard treasure (where the standard treasure is on table 3-3). The NPCs described in the table are assumed to be PC classes, an NPC with an NPC class will generally be one point of EL lower, depending on race and level, and as such will have lower gear. Regardless, you will rarely have players fighting a commoner, and the gear value is for combat encounters, not just random people you talk to.

[Adept_Scholar]

I am a newer D.M., so let me see if I understand this correctly...Let's say I have two encounters: the first with a 4th-level NPC human fighter and the second with a 4th-level NPC human warrior. The 4th-level human fighter would have around 3,300gp in gear compared to the 4th-level human warrior who would have around 2,500gp in gear (being treated as one EL lower for being of a NPC class)? As far as, say, a 4th-level NPC human commoner (for the interest of curiousity) rather than being worth the same as the 4th-level NPC human warrior above (2,500gp), would it make more sense for such an individual to have half that amount (1,250gp) or a quarter of that amount (625gp), both which seem like a lot for commoners who typically make roughly 7sp a week or 36gp a year, or perhaps roll a commoner's starting gold of 5d4gp once for each level, or 4 times in this case?

[SowZ]

I am a newer D.M., so let me see if I understand this correctly...Let's say I have two encounters: the first with a 4th-level NPC human fighter and the second with a 4th-level NPC human warrior. The 4th-level human fighter would have around 3,300gp in gear compared to the 4th-level human warrior who would have around 2,500gp in gear (being treated as one EL lower for being of a NPC class)? As far as, say, a 4th-level NPC human commoner (for the interest of curiousity) rather than being worth the same as the 4th-level NPC human warrior above (2,500gp), would it make more sense for such an individual to have half that amount (1,250gp) or a quarter of that amount (625gp), both which seem like a lot for commoners who typically make roughly 7sp a week or 36gp a year, or perhaps roll a commoner's starting gold of 5d4gp once for each level, or 4 times in this case?

That is because commoners would almost never be above 1st or 2nd level.

[Adept_Scholar]

I have a 10th-level commoner, two 5th-level commoners, and four 3rd-level commoners in the village I have created, so that is why my interest in their value/wealth as I am generating them from scratch.

[mattie_p]

Probably store owners or shopkeepers/crafters. One note, I saw it somewhere but can't remember where, is that WBL for NPCs should include houses, and if store owners, the value of the store and inventory. Consider that in your calculation, and it can almost make sense.

[Belzyk]

I am also interested in this. I just give my players what seems to be reasonable gold and we actually haggle for items. I don't use the exact price for items. Its a low magic game so the stronger a magical item the greater the cost that as a shopkeeper I'd want

[Flickerdart]

Commoners don't make 7sp per week. Vagabonds and drifters with no stable job or skills make 7sp per week. Commoners have Craft and Profession in-class, and no reason not to train one or both.

The 10th level commoner has had the ability to raise his Wisdom twice. Presumably he's also popped an age category. Starting with a score of 11, that gives us 14 Wisdom, or a +2 mod. He also has 13 ranks in Profession (probably Farmer) for a total of +15. His average result is 25, meaning he earns 12.5 gold pieces every week.

If the commoner took up crafting instead, he could make bank, provided that he could sell his work. Let's say he decides to make composite longbows with a +5 strength rating. The cost of such a thing is 600gp, and 200gp goes to materials. The DC is 25, his check is 25, so he makes 62.5gp worth of progress every week. It takes him 10 weeks to complete his bow, but he sells it for a 400gp profit, making a cool 40gp in pure profit per week of work.

This isn't even optimized. It's just a guy plying his trade with the bare minimum of effort. If you wanted to optimize a 10th level NPC for wealth generation, you could be cranking out mad stacks.

[erok0809]

I've never understood what a good in-game reason for NPCs having less wealth than PCs is. I get that if an NPC had the same wealth as a PC of a similar level, that would send the PCs way over WBL, so I see why from a game balance perspective. But if you have a 5th level Fighter NPC and a 5th level Fighter PC, they've done the same amount of adventuring. They should have around the same level of wealth, and yet the NPC will have a little under less than half that of the PC. And yeah, they could have fought a bunch of "Treasure: None" monsters to get there, but most/every NPC doing that seems unrealistic to me. Does anyone have an in-universe explanation for this?

[Flickerdart]

I've never understood what a good in-game reason for NPCs having less wealth than PCs is. I get that if an NPC had the same wealth as a PC of a similar level, that would send the PCs way over WBL, so I see why from a game balance perspective. But if you have a 5th level Fighter NPC and a 5th level Fighter PC, they've done the same amount of adventuring. They should have around the same level of wealth, and yet the NPC will have a little under less than half that of the PC. And yeah, they could have fought a bunch of "Treasure: None" monsters to get there, but most/every NPC doing that seems unrealistic to me. Does anyone have an in-universe explanation for this?

PCs are more speshul.