Demilich LA?

[TheLooker]

Is there a level adjustment for becoming a demilich?

[dragonsamurai77]

Is there a level adjustment for becoming a demilich?

No, it's impossible without DM intervention.

[Mystic Muse]

No there is not. I doubt the idea of LA on a Demilich ever occurred to Wizards of the Coast, as it's not exactly a player appropriate template.

[Arcanist]

It takes some working backwards but the level adjustment is +8

[Urpriest]

It takes some working backwards but the level adjustment is +8

To give a bit more detail:
The 3.5 update does not give LA to demilich. However, neither does it remove its previous LA. The ELH gives its example demilich ECL 33: lich gives +4, and the character is 21st level, so one can infer that demilich is +8. However, the ECL is only given for that particular demilich, so technically this might not fly. It's much like the question of Unseelie Fey being LA +0.

[TheLooker]

It takes some working backwards but the level adjustment is +8

Ooh--great! Thanks!

[Prime32]

Before you get excited about playing a character 12 levels lower than the rest of the party, consider what happens if someone casts holy word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm).

Your party members are deafened for ~2 rounds; you die instantly, with no saving throw allowed.

More than that, if you're playing an lv3 wizard who is a demilich... you will be fighting lv 15 enemies while having the HP and saving throws of an lv3 character; anything will kill you.

In short, LA is bad. At least try to get the DM to let you take Undead HD instead, so your character's stats work the way they're supposed to.

[Wavelab]

Before you get excited about playing a character 12 levels lower than the rest of the party, consider what happens if someone casts holy word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm).

Your party members are deafened for ~2 rounds; you die instantly, with no saving throw allowed.

The demilich is immune to holy word. It's immune to magical and supernatural effects with the exception of Shatter, Dispel Evil and Holy Smite.


More than that, if you're playing an lv3 wizard who is a demilich... you will be fighting lv 15 enemies while having the HP and saving throws of an lv3 character; anything will kill you.

In short, LA is bad.

You have a caster level of 11 to be able to take lich and a caster level of 21 to take demilich. So that situation is impossible.

[Arcanist]

Before you get excited about playing a character 12 levels lower than the rest of the party, consider what happens if someone casts holy word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm).

Your party members are deafened for ~2 rounds; you die instantly, with no saving throw allowed.

Lets add a little more reality to that: Someone cast holy word at you, you laugh at them, they start dancing... Why are they dancing? Because you just used an Epic spell to effectively mindrape them :smalltongue:


You have a caster level of 11 to be able to take lich and a caster level of 21 to take demilich. So that situation is impossible.

Yeppers, Flabort said it best.


HI! Just thought I'd pop by and - OMG WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO KILL A DEMILICH?! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12650599&postcount=35)

[Urpriest]

That said, there are certainly class levels, even in Epic, that could compete for the space. But Demilich grants enough that I wouldn't say it's absolutely clear-cut.

[137beth]

Demilich might be one of the only times where a large LA is not so absurdly underpowered. At ECL 15, a LA of 1 or 2 would be a problem, since its bonus has long become obsolete. On the other hand, an LA +14 at ECL 15 is not a bad deal at all, since it has a lot of powers which could potentially compare to class levels (assuming you chose good templates...)
For demilich, you couldn't get it until ECL 33, but since you would already have 21 levels in a pure caster class, you wouldn't be getting too much more with extra levels (since the bonus significantly slows). You actually don't lose that much in the way of epic spellcasting, because although WotC assumed your spellcraft check would increase linearly, they overlooked the bonus from items, which increases (exponentially)/(quadratically) with ECL, not caster level (since WBL does not depend on caster level), and so you don't actually lose that much.

[Alleran]

On the other hand, an LA +14 at ECL 15 is not a bad deal at all, since it has a lot of powers which could potentially compare to class levels (assuming you chose good templates...)
Disagree here. You'd be crippled in the HP area from your lack of Hit Dice, and spells like holy word (or their equivalent) would ruin your day.


For demilich, you couldn't get it until ECL 33, but since you would already have 21 levels in a pure caster class, you wouldn't be getting too much more with extra levels (since the bonus significantly slows). You actually don't lose that much in the way of epic spellcasting, because although WotC assumed your spellcraft check would increase linearly...
I do somewhat agree here, however. Once you hit 21st level and Epic Spellcasting opens up, you can probably take the demilich template without much issue. Yes, you won't quite have as many levels, but the demilich immunities block almost everything that would be an issue, and on top of that you can just cast epic spells as rituals (which is what they're good for, frankly).