Resetting Traps as Weapons

[SSGoW]

I was reading another post someone brought up the idea to use a resetting trap to make a magic weapon.

I need to find the rules for resetting traps. I want to put something into a sword (make a gunblade? Or resetting wall of fire/ice etc) or possibly a shield.. You know get element immunity then shield bash... The trigger is on the front of the shield... Fireballe or another area spell.

I need to get going but I figured I would put this out there.

[Andorax]

DMG standard rules for traps.

They have rules for the cost to create traps.

They have rules for setting the reset conditions of traps.

They have rules for using spells for traps.

Abusing these rules to absurd levels you can create a "casts spell X when I press this button" and press that button every single round, all day long.


Basically, it's taking a set of guidelines for creating actual honest-to-goodness TRAPS (you know...step here and eat a fireball), taking advantage of the "no size rules, no space rules, no common-sense-balance rules", and manufacturing portable spell engines.

[Seerow]

DMG standard rules for traps.

They have rules for the cost to create traps.

They have rules for setting the reset conditions of traps.

They have rules for using spells for traps.

Abusing these rules to absurd levels you can create a "casts spell X when I press this button" and press that button every single round, all day long.


Basically, it's taking a set of guidelines for creating actual honest-to-goodness TRAPS (you know...step here and eat a fireball), taking advantage of the "no size rules, no space rules, no common-sense-balance rules", and manufacturing portable spell engines.

Well why would a trap that is based on a magical spell have size or space rules? The spell is the trap.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's no such thing as a trap that triggers when you press a button. DMG p68 lists the types of triggers that a trap can have, and the person who triggers the trap is always the target of its effect, or is at the middle if it affects an area.

Traps must be built into a wall/floor/ceiling/door/etc., or an Ocarina of Time-size glowing treasure chest. In any case it's not very likely that whatever a trap is built into can even be carried away from where it was found, much less brought along on adventures. You're not going to haul a trapped door or chest with you and try to trick opponents into opening it!

The only exception to this, and the only way to get a highly mobile magical trap, is to have a Spelltrapped Spellbook described in Complete Arcane (p141). The trap triggers when the book is touched, or when it's opened, or when a particular page is read. I guess you can try touching the book to opponents, but also remember a spellbook is the size of a large pizza box and considerably thicker. It's not considered a weapon, so you'd be making an attack unarmed and provoke an AoO every time you try to activate it. It's also got the hardness of paper, so the first time you succeed in triggering it on an opponent they're liable to cut it in half and that will be the end of it.

The most economical use of magical traps is for beneficial effects, for example spelltrap a page of your spellbook to bestow a Cure Light Wounds on anyone who reads it. Even these are subject to DM veto, as it says, "any spell appropriate for a trap may be used," though you could say it's to keep undead from reading it.

[SSG Ghost Rider]

I would look at it this way. They already have a game mechanic for making fire, ice, etc come from your weapon. A trap is simply that...a trap. How can you "trap" the end of your weapon. Do you bring the spiked pit to the enemy? Or do you let the enemy come to the spiked pit.

I mean if having such a thing is appropriate for whatever you are playing in and doesn't break the balance. Then by all means do it. I know I certainly would, It's a cool idea to say the least. But as far as how the rules go on it. I think any common sensible being would understand how that shouldn't work.

[Axier]

Step 1: Install a cure spell into a small button in the floor.

Step 2: Cut out that section of the floor.

Step 3: Press button whenever you need healing (Or all the time in general.)

Step 4: Dodge books.

[Jack Zander]

Hey, if your DM is already letting you get away with absurd things like this, might as well go all out.

Trap your armor so that whenever it vibrates from a blow it casts cure critical wounds on the wearer.

Trap your shield so that whenever you bash with it the opponent is hit with an Otto's Irresistible Dance.

Trap your sword so that whenever it gets wet (blood), it casts an enervation from the tip.

Trap your boots so that whenever you put pressure into the soles, you are hit with a haste spell.

Trap your cape so that whenever air blows through it, it casts fly on the wearer.

Trap your gloves so that whenever you press your two middle fingers to your palm, they cast Web directly in front of you.

[SSGoW]

2 things

1. I DM on occasion and sometimes it is silly games that the player trying to do weird things. Sometimes instead of WBL they get a few mundane items and then 3 crazy items. Sometimes the point is just to do weird stuff. Resetting traps could be a fun theme.

2. There is one PC in the group that is... a jerk... I figured making my armor be a resetting trap of mide rape would be fun the next time he attacks me >:D

[Andorax]

Biff, please find for me where traps (specifically magic traps) are required to be affixed to a stationary dungeon feature. I'm not seeing it.


Yes, it's specific about triggers. Triggers include:

Proximity, with discernment possible. A shield with detect evil built into the holy word trap on it, set to activate when something evil comes within 10'.

Touch. A touch trigger which "springs when the trap is touched". Triggered by adding alarm to the trap and "reducing the area of the effect to cover only the trigger spot." A box with a button on it that casts Cure Critical Wounds on the triggering individual is RAW legal.


Traps include a Reset clause. One option for reset is "Automatic...either immediately or after a timed interval."



Magic traps require Craft Wondrous Item and the requisite spells.


Auto-reset traps cost 500gp x CL x SL and 40 XP x CL x SL. (plus added material and XP components).



The Holy Destroyer shield listed above would cost 45,500 and would unleash a Holy Word every round there's an evil individual within 10' of the shield bearer.

The Cure Crital Wounds button would cost 14,000...and you could push the button at least once a round...possibly more depending on ruling.

A bowstring (touch trigger) of True Strike would only cost 500.


Barring anything I'm missing in the RAW rules, these are legal. No sensible DM would ALLOW them, but this is some idea of the absurdity of using spell traps outside of their intent (as...you know...actual TRAPS).

[Mnemnosyne]

Proximity, with discernment possible. A shield with detect evil built into the holy word trap on it, set to activate when something evil comes within 10'.
This would actually be a really bad idea even if it was allowed. Think about it - you have a holy word trap on your shield that triggers anytime someone evil comes within 10 feet of you. Well, sometimes townsfolk are evil. Townsfolk that are evil and yet have committed no crimes. And therefore your holy word triggering and killing them is murder. Also then, your holy word kills every neutral commoner within a 40 ft. radius of you. So you can't even argue that they were evil.

Just saying. I know you weren't seriously suggesting that, but still...pointing out just how fantastically bad an idea it is.

Edit: You know, it occurs to me that even if the guards don't get you, after that happens once or twice, your callous disregard for the lives of others will make YOU evil, and then you're suddenly triggering your own holy word. Bonus points if you boosted the caster level of the trap to be at least 10 CL above your own level, because then it kills you.

[Acanous]

Once, I had a spelltrapped spellbook of Cure Light Wounds.
DM got so mad. So mad.

...I didn't even use it in combat.
He had a talk with me about my "Marginilizing the role of the Cleric".

So yeah. The next session, I rolled a cleric with Travel and Luck domains, who never cast cure spells. Because she didn't need to.

[Rubik]

He had a talk with me about my "Marginilizing the role of the Cleric". If that's his viewpoint, a 750 gp wand could do the same thing.

[HunterOfJello]

This is slightly off topic, but since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: If you're interested in using traps as a PC, you should consider the Trapsmith PrC. It appears in the Dungeonscape book and is actually quite powerful.

Many of the class' bonuses in defense only apply to traps, which make it superb in a trap heavy dungeon. However, they gain the ability to set up booby traps on the fly during battle. They also have d6 HD, 2/3 BAB, high reflex, 6+int skill points on a pretty long class skill list, and a VERY nice list of spells that they can cast like a bard (though their casting is solely based on Int).

If you're interested in play a trap-happy character, Trapsmith is the way to go.

~


Note: If you ever see a Kobold who seems to have levels in Trapsmith run into a cave, DO NOT follow him.

[Wookie-ranger]

If that's his viewpoint, a 750 gp wand could do the same thing.

this.


Also:
If you really want to go there, draw a card:
Go to the Tippyverse,
go directly to the Tippyverse,
do not pass go,
do not collect 200$,
do get books thrown at you.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222007
Go to the Tippyverse,
go directly to the Tippyverse,
do not pass go,
do not collect 200$
do get books thrown at you.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222007
Go to the Tippyverse,
go directly to the Tippyverse,
do not pass go,
do not collect 200$
do get books thrown at you.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222007


Its basically the idea about (among others) infinite spell traps that make nearly everything redundant; industry, agriculture, healthcare, war (to a great extend), etc.
If you want to go down that road, be my guest, but it will seriously warp your setting, and very possibly destroy your campaign.
That being said, you could play that this is the start of the Tippyverse and no one thought about it before.
kind of a far stretch, but black-powder was used for decades as fireworks before they thought about making a weapon out of it.

[Randomguy]

The only difference that I see between a custom magic item and a trap is cost. Traps cost 500gp*CL*SL, but slotless continuous or use activated magic items cost 4000gp*CL*SL*special multiplier. Why wouldn't the GM just rule it as a custom wondrous item, instead of a trap, and price it that way?

[ThiagoMartell]

The only difference that I see between a custom magic item and a trap is cost. Traps cost 500gp*CL*SL, but slotless continuous or use activated magic items cost 4000gp*CL*SL*special multiplier. Why wouldn't the GM just rule it as a custom wondrous item, instead of a trap, and price it that way?

Why would the DM even allow this when there are already rules for magical weapons?

[Rubik]

Why would the DM even allow this when there are already rules for magical weapons?Because most weapon enhancements are boring and worthless.

The vast majority of weapon enhancements get more expensive gp-wise as you level up, but they become more and more useless as time goes by. +1d6 fire damage for a flaming weapon averages 3.5 points of damage, which never changes no matter how much you go up in levels, and it gets more and more outdated with every level you gain, but the cost to have it on a +2 weapon is only 4,000 gp (1/2 of a +2 enhancement), whereas it costs 20,000 gp (1/10 of a +10 enhancement) later on.

Most armor enhancements are even worse.

And the classes that need the most money to keep up with offensive, defensive, and utility measures (martial types) have to spend the most money on these things, making the problem even worse.

At least with traps you can get interesting effects that don't become more expensive the more useless they become.

[edit] Also note that so long as you put the trap on the blade and only touch the hilt, you're in no danger of setting off the trap. Furthermore, since the trap goes off when touched, you can make touch attacks if you want to forgo normal damage and instead deal trap damage.

Not a bad way to go if your Strength score is lacking.

[ThiagoMartell]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Rubik]

Gee, maybe they have a reason for this? I don't know, maybe game balance or something? Maybe the system is built on the assumption that you can't get any effect on your weapons and doing so would break the game?

Anyway, it's not my game you're breaking. Knock yourselves out.Considering that for the price of a +2 weapon (which deals 1dx+1d6+1 damage) a wizard can buy a class feature (a spell) that can literally reshape reality, right?

I don't think 'broken' means what you think it means.

[2xMachina]

Gee, maybe they have a reason for this? I don't know, maybe game balance or something? Maybe the system is built on the assumption that you can't get any effect on your weapons and doing so would break the game?

Anyway, it's not my game you're breaking. Knock yourselves out.

The reason is to keep the mundanes down of course. Can't have the mundanes be in any way, able to threaten the magic users (who incidentally, are the ones who create magic items.)

It's a conspiracy I say!

[motoko's ghost]

Wasn't there an article in Dragon about strapping traps to yourself? I think those were mechanical though.

[kharmakazy]

I like to make double reverse traps. One trap is blatantly obvious and easily bypassed. The SECOND trap is very well hidden and is set to trigger only whenever the first trap is successfully disarmed. Take that rogues.

[ThiagoMartell]

Considering that for the price of a +2 weapon (which deals 1dx+1d6+1 damage) a wizard can buy a class feature (a spell) that can literally reshape reality, right?

I don't think 'broken' means what you think it means.
Considering spellcasters are the ones building resetting traps and getting the most benefit out of this, I don't think 'broken' means what you think it means.