Power level of a house rule

[RagnaroksChosen]

Hello Playgrounders,

If this should be in homebrew can I please have this thread moved to there.

So I was curious about the power level of a house rule for sorcs.
Its a bit of a play on the spell list of a sorc. I wanted to add a
new ability at first level called Alternate Spell list.

Alternate Spell List:
A first level sorc may choose to replace the Wizard spell list with another
spell list. This is a permanent change. If the character picks a none arcane list, then you cast as per that spell type and you no longer count as an Arcane caster.
Once you have selected a new spell list, you can only pick spells known from that select spell list. You no longer have access to the wizards/Sorc spell list. You Still cast as a normal sorcerer of your level and your caster stat is still Charisma.
Note that some spell lists stop at a certain spell level. If you pick a spell list that stops before 9th level spells you still progress spell casting per the sorcerer spells per day chart. However, when you gain a spell known of a spell level that is not on your list you may pick a spell to know from any spell level on your list.
For example Freddrick a first level sorcerer decides to pick the Ranger spell list. He chooses Entangle and Speak with animals as his spells known. Freddrick now counts as a divine caster. Now Freddrick adventures for a while and levels to 10th level. Normally a sorcerer would gain a 5th level spell known, but because he choose the ranger list, He picks up nondetection a 4th level ranger spell.

Is this to overpowered/underpowered. I am worried about high level play,
though to be honest I don't see a sorc going strait sorc to lvl 20.
I am also worried about it being overpowered at lower levels.

[Urpriest]

I don't really see what it's for. Almost every spell list that has 9th level spells (let's face it, nobody in this system is picking one that doesn't) already has a spontaneous casting class associated with it, and most are better than the sorceror. What would motivate a character to use this ACF? And what was your motivation for designing it?

[vhfforever]

So you turn a Sorcerer into a Favored Soul with less Class Abilities?

I'm not getting it...

[eggs]

I don't think this should work with partial-advancement spellcasters. It would have high potential to break at both high and low levels: The Sorcerer could use it to take advantage of the spell level reductions used to compensate slow-advancement casters like the Bard, Duskblade or Summoner (or the Trapsmith, if you really wanted to get crazy) - giving the Sorcerer a considerable low-level power boost at very little cost; and at high-levels, a Sorcerer with the Paladin list really wouldn't have any means of meaningfully contributing.

I'd consider either restricting it to 9th-level casting classes or turning it into a series of additional spell options. If the feat allowed a Sorcerer to choose one spell per level from another base class's spell list, it wouldn't be able to binge in underleveled spell effects at low levels, or be stuck digging through level 4 spells in the high-level game.

But with what you propose, with the 9th level spellcasting classes, I think it should be a variant that doesn't cost a feat - in almost any case, it's going to be a step down in the character's power.

[Tyndmyr]

So you turn a Sorcerer into a Favored Soul with less Class Abilities?

I'm not getting it...

This is where I'm at with it.

[dascarletm]

I would say the power-level of this is equal to or lower than the sorcerer as is.

Maybe I'm missing something.


Why not go favored soul for cleric spells, and well for Druid spells.... why not just be a druid?

[Namfuak]

If you gave sorcerers the class features they get in Pathfinder, this might be worth it.

As it is, there would be no reason to use anything but the archivist list, and again you are running into the problem of the Archivist simply having better class features.

[Yorae]

The only reason I can see to take that variant instead of a normal sorcerer or favored soul is either to quickly pick up spells from a slower progressing list like Ranger or Paladin and quickly multiclass into something else. I could see doing something interesting by dipping this variant sorcerer 1 and then theurging in some way, or doing something like Prestige Paladin.

Or maybe someone really wants a spontaneous Wu Jen, or somesuch?

[Oscredwin]

Maybe use this as the spontaneous side of an Ultimate Magus Build?

But aside from edge cases, taking this option won't increase the power of the character. It's fine power wise.

[Yorae]

Maybe use this as the spontaneous side of an Ultimate Magus Build?

But aside from edge cases, taking this option won't increase the power of the character. It's fine power wise.

Taking a divine would disqualify the character for UM, though, sadly. A divine/arcane UM would be neat.

[eggs]

The Favored Soul is Divine, has MAD casting and doesn't have certain Sorcerer abilities like the familiar or Rapid Summoning. It has a better chassis and some abilities that make it better at whacking things with pointed objects, but nothing meaningfully more powerful - especially once PrCs enter the picture.

And doesn't the Spirit Shaman have some pretty serious constraints on its spells retrieved? It's been a long time since I've played one, and I'm AFB, but I remember that tactically being a bigger deal than it is for a Sorcerer.

And bringing the Arcane/Divine limits into the picture, it's way less questionable to bring a Sorcerer into an Arcane-only PrC like Spellguard of the Silverymoon or War Weaver than it is to bring the Favored Soul into the same.

EDIT:
And sorcerers have their own distinct features. Like anything involving a Kobold.

So I can see it.

[Psyren]

Domain-less Mystic?

[RagnaroksChosen]

I don't think this should work with partial-advancement spellcasters. It would have high potential to break at both high and low levels: The Sorcerer could use it to take advantage of the spell level reductions used to compensate slow-advancement casters like the Bard, Duskblade or Summoner (or the Trapsmith, if you really wanted to get crazy) - giving the Sorcerer a considerable low-level power boost at very little cost; and at high-levels, a Sorcerer with the Paladin list really wouldn't have any means of meaningfully contributing.

I'd consider either restricting it to 9th-level casting classes or turning it into a series of additional spell options. If the feat allowed a Sorcerer to choose one spell per level from another base class's spell list, it wouldn't be able to binge in underleveled spell effects at low levels, or be stuck digging through level 4 spells in the high-level game.

But with what you propose, with the 9th level spellcasting classes, I think it should be a variant that doesn't cost a feat - in almost any case, it's going to be a step down in the character's power.

This is the kinda info I was looking for.


Thank you all.. Just a thought me and a few friends where playing around with.