Melee Warmage build

[Panzerbjorn]

Buildin a new char to replace the Rogue/Ninja Im playin now since its dyin. I want to build a 8 lvl Warmage warforged but Id like some melee class to help me not rely soley on spells. Im fond of blasting, shrug off damage, them slice n dice. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

No psi, ToB, warforged is a must, and simple is good :smalltongue:

feats/ equip help always welcome

ps the char lvl is 11, i was just looking at 8 lvls of warlock the rest for melee

[gorfnab]

Almost sounds as if you would be better off with an Artificer instead. With an Artificer you can blast (with wands) and shrug off damage (access to buff spells and ability to infuse self with Warforged).

[eggs]

Just to get this question out of the way, are you aware of the Duskblade? It's a base class that's basically a Warmage that works by whacking things with a sword.

If you are, and still want to use a Warforged melee Warmage that doesn't suck, things are going to get a bit more complicated.

[Psyren]

Jade Phoenix Warmage, maybe?

[Panzerbjorn]

I never looked into Duskblade before but it does look to be almost what im lookin for. The reason i want warmage is because fireball, scorching ray, etc. Spells that do lots of damage. I dont care about the fluff spells just damage ones as we already have a passive wizard in our group.
Is there a way (feats/multiclass/etc) that i can increase the Duskblades spells to have more of the evo damage spells?

[Psyren]

Ask your DM if you can bring in the Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus) from Pathfinder instead. They're strong at melee but have a lot more of the blasty stuff, and they fit very easily into 3.5.

[Masque]

Is there a way (feats/multiclass/etc) that i can increase the Duskblades spells to have more of the evo damage spells?

look into the Sublime Cord in Complete Arcane. you will have to take 1 level of bard, but you can get 9th level wiz/sorc spells at level 9 Sublime Cord.

[eggs]

Ask your DM if you can bring in the Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus) from Pathfinder instead. They're strong at melee but have a lot more of the blasty stuff, and they fit very easily into 3.5.
I'd second that. Definitely sounds like the easiest way to do what you want.

[Panzerbjorn]

Thanks for all the advice. :smallbiggrin: a friend of mine told me about the Spellsword PrC. It mixed with one level of fighter and some warmage (maybe even some war mage PrC?) sounds like it would do the same job as duskblade only better. Spellsword for the melee and channel spell. with the blasting ability of the warmage.

[Psyren]

Well that takes care of you for the 1 level, but what will you take after Spellsword? :smalltongue:

[JeminiZero]

This advice might be coming in a bit late, but why not a Melee Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708)? You can blast from afar, and hack them with eldritch glaive up close. Plus a Warforged Warlock never needs rest :smallbiggrin:

[Answerer]

Neither fireball nor scorching ray "do lots of damage." Just saying.

[Lateral]

Neither fireball nor scorching ray "do lots of damage." Just saying.

Scorching Ray can do lots of damage, at certain levels- with CL boosters, it's quite easy to get all three rays around level 6-7, which means you have a 2nd level spell doing 12d6 damage. Add metamagic onto that and it can rack up some respectable damage, although it ages quickly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Abjurant Champion and getting smithing spell (PHII) with some form of metamagic mitigation?

[Answerer]

Scorching Ray can do lots of damage, at certain levels- with CL boosters, it's quite easy to get all three rays around level 6-7, which means you have a 2nd level spell doing 12d6 damage. Add metamagic onto that and it can rack up some respectable damage, although it ages quickly.
Yes, but scorching ray responds poorly to the most potent damage-boosting metamagic (Split Ray).

[Panzerbjorn]

Fighter 1
Warmage 2
Spellsword 3-7
War Mage 8-11

fighter for the armor and weapon proficiency.
warmage for the spells and warmage edge
spellsword for -ASF, BAB, and channel spell
war mage for extra damage and -ASF

plus both the PrC give +1 level of warmage
So with my warforged and spellsword im good in melee, and with warmage and war mage im good in blasting.
Its not great in either but its better than duskblade?

I played a Warlock in another game and while it was fun i wanted to try somethin new this time around.

What spells do do lots of damage then? With this build my fireball does 10d6+6

[Masque]

This advice might be coming in a bit late, but why not a Melee Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708)? You can blast from afar, and hack them with eldritch glaive up close. Plus a Warforged Warlock never needs rest :smallbiggrin:

yea ive always been a fan of the warlock cause they can shape their eldrich blast to what they need. Might be a good idea to look at them if your still in doubt on what to play Panzerbjorn. Another good thing about the warlock is that they don't run out of their spells.

[Zonugal]

Panzerbjorn, I'd focus on what you can do at level 8 unless you are really sure this character is going to reach significantly higher levels.

Also, have you ever considered the Battle Sorcerer? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer)

[eggs]

Its not great in either but its better than duskblade?
In melee? No.

The Warmage bring any spells to the table that make the build good at melee; if you want the character to effectively whack things with a sword, it needs the abilities to do that well - getting around battlefield control obstacles, reliably moving and generating damage (probably more than 3/day), flying, targeting invisible/concealed targets, and so on.

But having said that, shouldn't War Mage make a 10d6 fireball deal 10d6+30 damage?

[Panzerbjorn]

Oh sorry for the confusion, its a lvl 11 char i was just thinking about doing 8 lvls of warmage. :smallredface:
How can the warmage make fireball do 10d6+30?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The War Mage pretige class from the age of mortals (IIRC) gives up to +3 extra damags per die of the spell, so a fireball which does 10 dies of damage would get +30 extra damage.

[Thurbane]

Sorcadin, but swap Sorcerer levels for Warmage? Paladin 2/Warmage 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8...

[dextercorvia]

Sorcadin, but swap Sorcerer levels for Warmage? Paladin 2/Warmage 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8...

While that can be done, it doesn't really work. Warmage doesn't have the spell list to supplement combat ability. While he has a somewhat better BAB, he is still going to melee like an unbuffed wizard (at best maybe Rogue without SA).

[Seerow]

The War Mage pretige class from the age of mortals (IIRC) gives up to +3 extra damags per die of the spell, so a fireball which does 10 dies of damage would get +30 extra damage.

Generally when people talk about the war mage, they are referring to the CA base class, that adds intelligence mod to damage.

Though if the DM allows it, a Warmage Prestige Classing into Warmage can be pretty nasty.




But honestly, if you want melee combat using blasting spells, I highly recommend duskblade. A spellsword build can do similar things, but the Duskblade is easier to build and run, IMO. Spellsword builds (read: Gish builds that dip into spell sword then take real gish classes like Abjurant Champion) can do much the same thing as a Duskblade, but requires more messy multiclassing, and isn't going to get you the same feel until higher levels. At mid-high level, the Spellsword is going to be objectively better due to access to utility spells that the Duskblade lacks, but if your main interest is in blasting stuff, the Duskblade will suit you just fine.

[dextercorvia]

If the OP doesn't get enough blasting from Duskblade, you can PrC into Chameleon. That will get you all of the blasts you want to channel.

[Thurbane]

While that can be done, it doesn't really work. Warmage doesn't have the spell list to supplement combat ability. While he has a somewhat better BAB, he is still going to melee like an unbuffed wizard (at best maybe Rogue without SA).
Well, since the OPs request was for a melee Warmage build... :smalltongue:

[eggs]

Generally when people talk about the war mage, they are referring to the CA base class, that adds intelligence mod to damage..
I could have been off-base, but I think there's a bit of both going on:

So with my warforged and spellsword im good in melee, and with warmage and war mage im good in blasting.
But yeah, for the flak I was giving about frontlining, for straight blasting War_Mage is pretty far from the worst way to go.

[Panzerbjorn]

Abjurant Champion sounds nice but Ive got some magic items and feats that give me AC 36 and DR- 4/adamantine, 5/-, and 5/cold iron. So im not too worried about defence, which is what the Abjurant Champion sounds like it does best.
I didnt add in the war_mage damage when i did my math for firball >.<
The duskblade would be great if i only took that class wih maybe a few levels in another level, but the warmage-war_mage-spellsword has mostly the same abilities and stats with only trading general and defensive spells for just offensive spells.
That and it just sounds like fun to play a war mage :smallbiggrin:
Thanks all for the great responses and advice :smallbiggrin:

[ThiagoMartell]

Yes, but scorching ray responds poorly to the most potent damage-boosting metamagic (Split Ray).

Considering the OP is level 8, scorching ray is still probably his best option.

[Answerer]

Actually, he's not:

Oh sorry for the confusion, its a lvl 11 char i was just thinking about doing 8 lvls of warmage. :smallredface:


Granted, he clarified that after I posted and there's no way I could have known that at the time. Level 8 just might have been the sweet spot where scorching ray is one of the higher-damage spells available. Though at that point it's competing with the orb of spells, which is rough even though scorching ray with CL boosting probably does more damage.

[dextercorvia]

Yes, but scorching ray responds poorly to the most potent damage-boosting metamagic (Split Ray).

So do the Orbs which are highly touted. The actually perform worse.


@Thurbane, I wasn't knocking your build, I just don't understand what the OP wants. It sounds like he wants a fighter than can throw Fireballs. There are just a lot better ways to do that than try to gish a Warmage. While I understand that's what he asked for, I'm trying to get to the heart of the concept he wants.

[Answerer]

So do the Orbs which are highly touted. The actually perform worse.
I assume the reasoning here (I'm AFB) is that the Orbs are not actually Rays, and that Split Ray requires a Ray in order to function?

If these things are both true, that's a fair argument. As I say, I'm AFB, so I can't check.

Of course, what I really had in mind was Enervation, but then that's not HP damage. Level drain hurts oh so much more than HP damage, but whatever.

[dextercorvia]

I assume the reasoning here (I'm AFB) is that the Orbs are not actually Rays, and that Split Ray requires a Ray in order to function?

If these things are both true, that's a fair argument. As I say, I'm AFB, so I can't check.

Of course, what I really had in mind was Enervation, but then that's not HP damage. Level drain hurts oh so much more than HP damage, but whatever.

That is the reasoning.

Enervation isn't really a fair comparison. If course a no save debuff is usually better than a blast spell.

If you are buffing CL, Scorching Ray is a pretty good blast for its level. By level 8 or so, you will get more mileage from a spell with a higher damage cap. The only real benefit that Fireball (for example) has over it, is the increased range. The wide area is a mixed blessing unless you are fighting at a distance, since it is too easy to hit your fellow party members. It also has a lower damage cap than Scorching Ray which is silly.

[Answerer]

Oh, I certainly wasn't comparing it to fireball. That particular spell has few merits.

[dextercorvia]

Oh, I certainly wasn't comparing it to fireball. That particular spell has few merits.

No, the OP listed Scorching Ray and Fireball as powerful blasts. Someone countered that, and then someone else brought up that Scorching Ray is actually decent for a few levels. I guess that is what made me reach for it.

[Spuddles]

Oh, I certainly wasn't comparing it to fireball. That particular spell has few merits.

Fireball is great for wiping parties that hang out too close together.

[dextercorvia]

Fireball is great for wiping parties that hang out too close together.

Fireball is great for singeing parties that hang out too close together.

A fireball from any level appropriate encounter is unlikely to take even a single party member to the negatives.

[eggs]

It has a long range, which can be obnoxious for fast Mongol Archer-sorts of tactics (throwing a Wizard with Anticipate Teleport on a Phantom steed and just generally staying a few hundred feet out of reach). The damage isn't much to worry about, but some of its riders can be (Fell Drain/Fell Weaken/Born of Three Thunders/Energy Gestalt/etc.)

But that's more for NPCs (and for DMs trying to make an annoying encounter).

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Buildin a new char to replace the Rogue/Ninja Im playin now since its dyin. I want to build a 8 lvl Warmage warforged but Id like some melee class to help me not rely soley on spells. Im fond of blasting, shrug off damage, them slice n dice. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

No psi, ToB, warforged is a must, and simple is good :smalltongue:

feats/ equip help always welcome

ps the char lvl is 11, i was just looking at 8 lvls of warlock the rest for melee


Abjurant Champion sounds nice but Ive got some magic items and feats that give me AC 36 and DR- 4/adamantine, 5/-, and 5/cold iron. So im not too worried about defence, which is what the Abjurant Champion sounds like it does best.
I didnt add in the war_mage damage when i did my math for firball >.<
The duskblade would be great if i only took that class wih maybe a few levels in another level, but the warmage-war_mage-spellsword has mostly the same abilities and stats with only trading general and defensive spells for just offensive spells.
That and it just sounds like fun to play a war mage :smallbiggrin:
Thanks all for the great responses and advice :smallbiggrin:

Just so you know, DR 4/Adamantine, 5/-, and 5/Cold Iron doesn't really help you. The 5/- is going to be the only one which applies.

As to your build, Warforged and a Cha based caster don't go together well (what with the -2 Cha penalty). I'm not really sure what your build's focus is - do you want Blasting>Melee, or Blasting<Melee, or Blasting=Melee? Where do you see tanking (i.e. "shrug[ging] off damage,") fitting in to your priorities? Artificer isn't simple, but it does enable you to do all of these things, to some extent or another, and better than a Warmage based build will (unless you go Rainbow Warsnake, which should be about on par, but that sounds like it might be a little high-op for your group).

It'll be easier to give suggestions if we have a better idea of what you're trying to achieve with this build.

[Panzerbjorn]

My DM likes to put a few minions in a room with a mini-boss. im the only one in my party who is willing to go first into a room (everyone else being healers/trackers/etc passive people. so what im lookin for is a build to match the role i play. it doesnt need to be optimized more fun and simple. I want to walk into a room (preferably be able to disable device/open lock as my DM loves traps, but I cant find a way to get those skills without dipping into rogue or something or bein human) shoot a spell or two to take out at least a couple minions and injure the mini-boss. shrug off at least some damage when the come chargin at me. then swing my large fullblade (not best weapon i know but looks cool, strongarm bracers=large) and slice and dice till they are dead.
warmage,war_mage= blasting+damage
fighter,spellsword=melee damage+channel spell

[Gwendol]

I'd take a look at the Duskblade, again. They make good nova's, what with the quick cast ability, and spell channelling. At your level you'll have access to Vampiric Touch, which will likely be your spell of choice against living enemies.

Also, check out Dictum Mortuum's handbook here: http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html

[dextercorvia]

My DM likes to put a few minions in a room with a mini-boss. im the only one in my party who is willing to go first into a room (everyone else being healers/trackers/etc passive people. so what im lookin for is a build to match the role i play. it doesnt need to be optimized more fun and simple. I want to walk into a room (preferably be able to disable device/open lock as my DM loves traps, but I cant find a way to get those skills without dipping into rogue or something or bein human) shoot a spell or two to take out at least a couple minions and injure the mini-boss. shrug off at least some damage when the come chargin at me. then swing my large fullblade (not best weapon i know but looks cool, strongarm bracers=large) and slice and dice till they are dead.
warmage,war_mage= blasting+damage
fighter,spellsword=melee damage+channel spell

The rest of your party doesn't want to pick locks, charge in first, or blast -- leaving you to theoretically do all three? What if you picked a "passive" role. Would you guys even leave the inn?

[Panzerbjorn]

The rest of your party doesn't want to pick locks, charge in first, or blast -- leaving you to theoretically do all three? What if you picked a "passive" role. Would you guys even leave the inn?

We have a druid that is catfolk. a pixie summoner. a psionic monk, and a couple NPCs just along for the ride. the druid pretty much just heals and shoots bows. the pixie creates magic items and summons pits and monsters. and the monk... im not really sure what he is doin most of the time, he just protects our back unless there is a big battle. we had a human fighter who just left our group as well as a polar bear fighter (awakened) and my rogue is about to leave.
picking lock isnt a must, just fun
If i do a full duskblade could i get a runestaff with fireburst, fireball, and blast of flame and use UMD to use it?
the duskblade is just what i want for the melee aspect but i want some more blast spells.

[Tyndmyr]

I never looked into Duskblade before but it does look to be almost what im lookin for. The reason i want warmage is because fireball, scorching ray, etc. Spells that do lots of damage. I dont care about the fluff spells just damage ones as we already have a passive wizard in our group.
Is there a way (feats/multiclass/etc) that i can increase the Duskblades spells to have more of the evo damage spells?

Extra Spell and Knowstones will do that quite easily.

[erikun]

Fighter 1
Warmage 2
Spellsword 3-7
War Mage 8-11
Too bad you aren't using Tome of Battle, because then you could be a Warforged Warblade Warmage War Mage. :smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, what about reserve feats? They aren't terribly strong, but being able to launch mini-fireballs or -cones of cold may be handy. (May be too similar to playing a Warlock, though.)

[Navydawg72]

ok im doing a warmage/swashbuckler/fighter/eldritch warrior build
with this build ill be doing 15d6 + 8 pts of dmg with my orbs plus gettting the swashbuckler insightful strike with weapon spec plus strenght dmg. thats not including any stat increases or magic items so ill be casting 6th level spells as a 16th level caster with practiced spell caster plus take the daring waring feat to get me fighter feats.