rogue battle vs my dm. . what did i do. please help [Archive]

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 05:01 PM

My dm made a character and pretty much told me i couldn't beat him. So of course i took his challenge. This is a rogue battle so i decided make a dragonwrought kobald that uses natural attacks. He is using a twf crit fisher. Our builds are set in stone but we can change items until tomorrow.

The things he has that worries me is improved uncannydodge. Something to make me have a miss chance like blurring and he plans to attack my strength which is only six.

I have 110k to spend and we are level twelve. I have on idea on arena as of yet but assume it to be just a large open area. We will have our starting positions randomized so we could be close or 160ft away is what he said
My stats are 6 strength 16con 20 dex 16 int 10 wisdom and 8 charisma.
Pounce. Weapon finesse. Distracting assailant. Improved feign. pounce.Staggering strike. Dragonfire strike. Improved multi attack. Craven are feats or anything of importance. I won't have much leeway on changing the build but items are free game until tomorrow.

I have 110k to spend. Items i am thinking about are.
Belt of battle = free full action
horned helm and fanged mask. More attacks
blurring armor +1 his idea i stole
Gloves of dexterity +6
vest of free movement
cloak of mysterious emergence.
I am really worried about just not being able to get my sneak attack off cause of blurring or some miss effect. Or getting knocked out if my strength hits 0.

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 05:04 PM

This post is very, very hard to read. Could you edit it to be more coherent?

Could you also stat out your character, his wealth, his items, how much time he has to go shopping and prepare, the information on the arena, etc. etc.?

Flickerdart

2012-06-30, 05:13 PM

What level are you? What are the allowed sources? What is your current build and how much leeway do you have with changing it (items only, purchasing spells, retraining feats/levels) before the battle?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 05:45 PM

Hope that cleared it up a bit. He optimized against me cause i foolishly talked about my character. And if i lose this guy will be my rival Basicly.

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 05:49 PM

You have 110K to spend?

Dust of Sneezing and Choking. /Thread

Along with some wands and scrolls (max UMD). Your best bet is to pretend to be a wizard.

If you enter the fight flying, polymorphed into a Cryohydra, and with Superior Invisibility up... ;) ;).

whibla

2012-06-30, 05:58 PM

He is a crit fisher

Heavy fortification on your armour, makes you immune to crits (and sneak attacks incidentally).

His character has improve uncanny dodge. Something to stop my sneak attack. Im guessing its blur

Either would stop your sneak attacks. Blur is fairly easily negated, either through Truesight, or the (rather expensive) feat Pierce Magical Concealment (has prerequisite feats of Blindfight and Mage Slayer, and requires a 13 Con and 2 ranks in Spellcraft).
Improved Uncanny Dodge is not so easy to negate, basically if he has rogue / assassin levels within 4 of your rogue levels you're SOL*.

and plans to reduce my strength.
Can you all help me find a way to either get my sneak attack/ craven off or a way so he cannot reduce my strength.

Depends on how he intends to reduce your strength. Most spells and spell like effects that reduce your strength are negative energy effects, so can be avoided by the simple expedient of putting Death Ward on your armour. If it's via the 10+ rogue class ability Crippling Strike then he can only do that if he's able to sneak you, and since you're a high level rogue that's unlikely anyway*.

*Unless one or other of you manages to immobilise the other, in which case it's game over anyway. There may be another way to overcome Improved Uncanny Dodge, but I'm a tad 'rusty' on stuff in the Complete Rogue's. I'm sure someone else can point you in the right direction though.

Personally, if I were a rogue going into an arena I'd want the ability to summon some allies. Sneaking, when you're a single target becomes a lot harder when you cannot gain flanking bonuses. Invisibility, or Blink, is all very well, but they are fairly easy to get around....

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 06:00 PM

Im somewhat new to 3.5 and i haven't looked at any spellcasters. You have any recommendations for wands? Also what book is dust in.
and lol at the polymorph idea that is just awesome.

I don't know how to paste quotes on my phone but how do i get truestrike without a weapon. Or is there other ways to get it besides weapon enhancement

Gandariel

2012-06-30, 06:06 PM

Dust of sneezing is in the SRD

get heavy fortification, death ward, invisibility, flight, polymorph, and a way to actually do damage to him

King Atticus

2012-06-30, 06:07 PM

Also what book is dust in.

Dust of Sneezing and Choking (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#dustofSneezingandChoking)

A cursed item from DMG or on the SRD at above link.

Randomguy

2012-06-30, 06:22 PM

Max out your ranks in Use Magic Device and get a wand of Sheltered Vitality. Immunity to ability drain and ability damage.

Check out equipment from this list. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851)

Get something to boost strength so you can actually deal some damage when you aren't sneak attacking.

Give both your weapons the "greater dispelling" property, from magic item compedium, to dispel whatever he has that's stopping you from making sneak attacks. You might have to hit his armour, if he's got fortification.

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 06:29 PM

Im definitely gettin the dust but how do i protect myself from it?

Well if i get the fortification armor +5 that is around 70k
Then for armor with flight which i will be gettin is another ten.
The only invisibility item i can think of is the ring which is another 40k.
And the polymorph would be a face slot from that link for 10k.
Guess i need to figure out what is most important here.

I can't enhance any weapons since Im using my fists.

And the use magic device is a home idea.

mucco

2012-06-30, 06:39 PM

Premise: I think the Dust is boring cheese, and that winning by turning your rogue into a wizard (polymorph) kind of defies the purpose of the challenge.

Defensive
36k: Heavy Fortification +1 buckler. His crit-fishing abilities will be completely negated, for a -1 to hit on your off-hand.
3,4k: Scout's Headband. True seeing makes Blur cry in a corner.
6k: Cloak of the Dragon. Flight is very useful and might just be a game winner, if your opponent can't. Just fly above him and shoot arrows at him. Remember to list your bow and arrows in the equipment.

Offensive
You need a way for your opponent to be vulnerable to your sneak attacks. If he relies on Uncanny Dodge and Blur, excellent. This means you have to find ways to have him lose his Dex bonus that are not included in the Uncanny Dodge abilities. These are: blinded (he could argue it's the same as fighting invisible attackers, though), grappling, stunned, and bluffed. Therefore:
40k: custom item of +20 competence to Bluff.
Various wands, among which: all the "x-strike" ones, in case your enemy has polymorphed into something sneak-attack-immune, and Glibness.

Extra
What if he has Heavy Fortification too? Then, stuff gets hard. I suggest the following:
45k: custom Staff of Greater Dispel Magic (CL 20).
8k: two Rings of Counterspells.
You charge both rings with a dispel from the staff. In combat, you take out the staff and dispel the Heavy Fortification item he has. At CL 20 vs a DC of 24, it should be easy. You now have 1d4 rounds to sneak attack him. The rings of counterspells are there in case he tries the same tactic on you.
A bonus of the staff is that you can ruin lots of magical tricks he might try to do. It's a bit cheesy in my opinion, though.

If stuff costs too much, you can cut on the Bluff bonus or the CL of the staff.

animewatcha

2012-06-30, 06:40 PM

mucco

2012-06-30, 06:59 PM

Dust of sneezing and coughing right? Sounds like a plug your nose and hold/close your mouth type of thing.

Did you know that a scroll of gate ( 9th level arcane spell ) is only 8,825 gp? Can someone familiarise him with the 'chain gate' method madness? My googling tends to suck.

Or you could buy like seven Candles of Invocation and do a Pun-Pun while you're at it, for the lulz.

Is this a rogue competition, or what? I'm really annoyed at people whose solution for everything is something they would never allow in their games in the first place. Which is becoming all too common lately. :smallannoyed:

But if it fits the OP's desires...

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 07:22 PM

The question is...

...Do you want to beat him, period?

-OR-

...Do you want to be him by being a better Rogue than he is?

Mithril Leaf

2012-06-30, 07:28 PM

Or you could buy like seven Candles of Invocation and do a Pun-Pun while you're at it, for the lulz.

Is this a rogue competition, or what? I'm really annoyed at people whose solution for everything is something they would never allow in their games in the first place. Which is becoming all too common lately. :smallannoyed:

But if it fits the OP's desires...

Perhaps they allow it in their games if it brought a players all too large ego down a peg? :smallamused:

mucco

2012-06-30, 07:29 PM

Not even then, you deal with problem players out of game only.

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 07:31 PM

Yes its a rogue competition. I was talking to him and i won't use the dust or anything like that unless in getting my butt handed to me.

On that staff with the +20 comp to bluff how exactly do you get that. I will have to explain.

I also figured out that apparently he won't have to hit me for his secret thing he is doin to work. Its when i hit him so Im thinkin that dispel staff would be nice once i found out what it is to get rid of it.

that is a good point i really want to beat him.

My only rule btw was no pun pun allowed

Fouredged Sword

2012-06-30, 07:37 PM

If you can survive his attacks, killing him can be as simple as hitting him with aboleth mucus. The target looses his ability to breath. If he can't get to water before he runs out of ability to hold his breath.

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 07:37 PM

So...what your DM has made? A full rogue too?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 07:39 PM

Rogue swash and assassin

Also his stats will be alot higher. Not sure what if did or found but he said he had to pay gold to do it. Has like 24dex 20con. He won't tell me either

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 07:40 PM

If you are going to go into melee...

1.) Get a smoking weapon. Like on your armor spikes, or whatever. Negate his sneak attack by giving yourself concealment. Lords of Darkness, I believe.
2.) For your primary attacking weapon, get sudden stunning on it, from DMG II. +2000 gp.
3.) If you know for SURE he is using the DMG Assassin class, get Magebane, from Complete Arcane.
4.) Get lots of initiative boosters. You want to kill him in one hit, before he gets a chance to do anything. Also, you want to be able to fly, and to summon allies with your gear.

Also, if your build is set in stone, can you tell us if your UMD is 'trained', and what your modifier is? Thanks. Actually, a full character sheet would be ideal!

Also, if his stats are higher, he might have misunderstood some of the rules regarding level adjustment and level adjustment buyoff. Are you being given the actual build? If he has access to your build, you should have access to his for planning. Is this a 'canon' fight?

Also, aboleth mucus doesn't give someone the ability to breathe water. Someone would need to be underwater AND be given a way to breathe water for the duration of the attack...

Here are some handbooks for you:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12837
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11066.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871522/The_Handle_Animal_Guide

Also, buy some pets. There are LOTS of ways to win this fight... 110k GP is a LOT of resources!

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 07:45 PM

He will probably get something invisibility, true strike to hit and something to be able to see you. Then he will study you and try to death attack you. You are level 13, right?

Wait...are you both the same level?

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 07:48 PM

Look at the spell "Superior Invisibility".

It is a 9th level spell, and he would have to escalate all the way to True Seeing to see you.

Look into buying Attuned Gems (magic of faerun), if you can't UMD scrolls and stuff.

How much buffing time will you have pre fight?

Can you tell us anything about the arena??

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 07:50 PM

Challenge him to a game of cards to see who is the better rogue - have the cards covered in poison :smallsmile: and explosive runes :smallbiggrin:

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 07:52 PM

Umd? I was planning on using natural attacks. With multi attack

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:01 PM

UMD is a skill. Known as Use Magic Device. It is in the PHB.

Amongst other things, it will let you (say), read a scroll of Polymorph (say, a caster level 7), which can change you into (say) a Hydra, with Strength 19, and 7 heads that do 1d10 damage each.

If you have to instead get an Attuned Gem of Polymorph at caster level 7, this will be much much much more expensive than simply buying a CL 7 Scroll.

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:02 PM

We are the same level. And i could have a round before combat

Kallisti

2012-06-30, 08:08 PM

Umd? I was planning on using natural attacks. With multi attack

Which is more or less irrelevant to whether or not you have ranks in Use Magic Device. ...I think.

It would help if you posted your character sheet for us; Myth-Weavers has a good online sheet to fill in if you only have a hard-copy.

It sounds like his strength-draining trick is liable to be one of those reactive-damage spells like Fire Shield, if it's triggered by you hitting him. Staff of Dispel Magic is a good investment, but honestly if you can kill him in one hit the strength-damage is a non-issue. Getting immunity to ability damage/drain isn't that hard, though; isn't there a spell, Veil of Undeath or the like, that would grant him undead immunities temporarily? Also, if it is a reactive-damage spell, it might not apply to ranged attacks.

Aboleth mucus is a good idea; hit him with a few arrows coated in that, safely in the air using a cheap flying item, and that'll be game if he wasn't prepared.

On that staff with the +20 comp to bluff how exactly do you get that. I will have to explain.

There are two items being discussed here--a Staff of Dispel Magic and a custom item that grants a bonus to bluff. Both items are being created using the rules for custom items, described in the back of the Magic Items chapter of the DMG (if I recall correctly) or here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 08:09 PM

Who will DM the battle? Your opponent will know everything you do in game? Or you could have secret actions/items or something?

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:12 PM

Here's a good Polymorph thread for ya:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:18 PM

Our friends who are also in the game will be monitoring. Ill have around 19 to attack with gloves of dex. He will also have around 31 ac. Unfortunately comp is down and i just have my phone so no character sheet

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:21 PM

You should REALLY take a look at that polymorph thread... really really... ;)

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 08:22 PM

With +5 Con he will have too many hps. You will either have to find many offensive items, or use some kind of save or die spell or effect. The problem is that he has so much better abilities for some reason, and you don't even know the reason :smallsigh:

Blind Orc

2012-06-30, 08:24 PM

You should REALLY take a look at that polymorph thread... really really... ;)

Polymorph into an invisible hydra and do 10 sneak attacks per round? :smallbiggrin:

I am afraid that the other guy will have protections too...

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:25 PM

Arcanist

2012-06-30, 08:25 PM

Honestly, If I was in this scenario I would just go Rogue/Merchant Prince. I mean you pretty much just turned into Batman :smalltongue:

This fight pretty much turned into WBL abuse the moment everyone heard "110k gp" so I am for just picking up some uber scrolls and wrecking your DM's entire day. Unfortunately you can't alter your character (crying shame, an Artificer/Merchant Prince just sounds like a regular Hiroshi Sato (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Hiroshi_Sato))

Ah well :smalltongue: Just pick up 2 scrolls of Gate, Gate in a Solar, and Wish that he was in the Ravenloft. For all intensive purposes he is NOT getting out unless he wants to pull a Vecna and attempt to rape the entire multiverse into breaking out (He's a Rogue so that is incredibly unlikely). Then use the 2nd scroll and Gate in another Solar and wish for 3 Candles of Invocation... :smallamused:

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:28 PM

If i can get my sneak attack off i will be doin a average of 30 damage a hit with around a 50 percent chance to hit. And with belt of battle i get a extra. Full sound so that is a extra 8 attacks so i can kill him in one turn.
Also i will be lookin and replying to posts i missed later. At work atm while doing this lol. You guys are being so freaking helpful.

That... really isn't a lot of damage... You need some spells to buff your damage and to hit likelihood, or to target something other than hit points as your main way of 'winning' the fight.

If you can win the fight before you set a hand on him, you have done it right.

Do you have ANY IDEA if you spent any ranks in Use Magic Device or not??

Even a Caster Level 5 Attuned Gem of Alter Self might win you the fight, since you are a Dragonwrought Kobold (gives you access to some small dragon forms... with perfectly useful hands...)

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:30 PM

Yes i maxed umc or will rather. And i thought that was alot lol. I will have to look for ways to target stats i guess.
And whatever arcanest said sounds cool lol. Will have to Google it later

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:33 PM

If your character is set in stone, you won't be able to retroactively change your skills to be able to activate scrolls without large chances of failure, and will have to use more expensive methods of activating spells.

Will you be able to prebuff, or buff in the minutes or hours before the fight?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:35 PM

On that fortification +1 buckles what level fortification is that for 36k. Its pretty ppdttwdwpdmpgtd the higher you go x

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:37 PM

It sounds like you, at most, want to switch to a form that can use your gear? So some sort of dragon, or something roughly humanoid-shaped?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:39 PM

Im sure i could change a few things. He doesn't care all that much. Not before the fight but if we start a good distance away which will be random i may have some time

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:39 PM

It sounds like you, at most, want to switch to a form that can use your gear? So some sort of dragon, or something roughly humanoid-shaped?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:42 PM

Yea that waould be the most beneficial

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 08:45 PM

Yea that waould be the most beneficial

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:47 PM

Assuming no UMD...

item: Ring of dragonshape (23k, draconomicon) - 1/day polymorph into young red or gold dragon for 1 hour

What you get from Gold Dragon:

* Gold Dragon, Young, Large, Fly 200, NA +13, Str 25, Dex 10, Con 17
Attack: 1 bite +20 melee (2d6+4), 2 claws +15 melee (1d8+2), 2 wings +15 melee (1d6+2) and 1 tail slap +15 melee (1d8+6)

Would that help things, any? Being able to fly, strength 25, getting lots of natural armor. Also Dragons can, via the rules in Draconomicon, specifically use items, and polymorph doesn't cause your items and gear to meld -- it changes with you. And gold dragons have hands, and can speak, so you can activate your gear and throw things and stuff, while you fly above him. No arrows, though, so your ranged attacks have to be based on debilitating him, before you close in for the kill in melee.

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 08:56 PM

Also, there are a lot of questions in this thread that you haven't answered yet; consider refreshing the thread and looking at which ones you can maybe answer.

And you can only have one round of buffing before combat? Is it in sight of the other character? Even for abilities that last over an hour??

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 09:15 PM

I know nothing about the map. so i don't know if i will be abl e to see him. Im pretty sure that we will be able to though.
We may start next to each other so there could be no time to buff at all. And no buffing before battle.
our starting locations will be randomized

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 09:19 PM

Almost everything is open to use. I can deviate from my build but i won't change it entirely because that is kinda ****ty on my past.
And i will be sticking with my kobald

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 09:21 PM

No buffing before the battle? None at all? Even things that last an hour, or which might last eight hours? You said you would get a round, earlier. Did that change? What happened??

Hmmm.

Initiative boosters got even MORE important, then, as do things you can activate with a free action.

Can you tell us anything more about your feats?

I'd consider getting access to burrow or similar, so you can go do your buffing underground, and then leave burrow, fly up, drop a bunch of battlefield control on him from the air, and then close to melee.

I would NOT focus so much on stat boosters like you have been doing. You want single use or 1/day items that help you get dramatically new abilities that have little to do with improved stats, and instead are 'this entirely new thing you can do'.

Will you be able to change your skills prior to the battle start? Do you remember how many ranks in Use Magic Device you had at start?

When (realtime) does the battle start?

mighty barry

2012-06-30, 09:26 PM

Around 30 hours from now. Also our Position will be random O i may or may not have time to buff. Will answer other questions here shortly

ok so i will be goin first have +19 init. Also i am goin to do the dragon idea i like it alot. And yes i can change stuff around before hand.

The burrow idea is pretty cool. Just curious if you have any ideas for the buffs i would use underground and also what type of ranged attacks can i do in dragon form. Besides like a breath attack

Gavinfoxx

2012-06-30, 10:56 PM

You don't get a breath attack with Polymorph. Sorry! You get the bonuses listed!

Your best bet is to activate scrolls and throw grenadelikes and such while in the air. I don't think we will be able to do the burrow thing... not without any, you know, buffing rounds. If you can get Eager and Warning and other such initiative boosters, do so.

1:) Use the ring to change into a gold dragon (standard).Activate your belt of battle (swift, I think, getting you a standard, I think). Use, via UMD, a scroll of something nice and powerful, like Solid Fog on him, to give you some more time. Or Time Stop, to give you more time to buff. In the Time Stop, cast some buffs via scrolls. Fly out of reach. Don't use Superior Invisibility yet.

2:) Start piling on some buffs. True Sight, a few ways to get stacked miss chances, ac boosters, the things to give you immunities to things, stuff like that. Use scrolls. Lots of scrolls.

3.) Consider throwing some battlefield control spells at him via scroll or the dust, if you aren't in a time stop. Consider carefully WHAT you throw at him, so as not to invalidate the style of challenge (you want to kill him with melee natural weapon sneak attacks, preferably from hovering above him, with Superior Invisibility, after you have done your buffs and blinded him and such).

4.) After you can hover above him, out of his reach, without using your wings (via a buff spell), and you are invisible to something that see invisibility won't counter, and he is blinded, stunned, entangled, etc. etc., attack him with natural weapons while outside of his reach.

The actual spells used WILL VARY, based on your UMD, or if you need to buff your UMD to get access to higher level scrolls, or whatever.

Spend time reading the various handbooks that talk about spell selection, for character types that have access to lots of battlefield control, like these:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185

animewatcha

2012-06-30, 11:51 PM

Keep in mind that part of being rogue is having 'paranoia' contingency plans in case **** hits the fan and no one else ( no wizzy around ) may have a backup plan. Rogue go the cheap route in combat through various means.

Heck, there is an oriental adventures shaman spell called Compel. Acts on will save with them getting a plus 4 to the saving throw if lose class abilities due to it's effect. Find a way to bump up the DC to extremes and make use of it.
It's on savannah. It forces the target to permanently change alignment right down to new outlook on life and rejecting old. Get the other guy to not be evil alignment. Not being evil alignment neutralizes nearly all of what assasin gives. Except hit points, skill points, bab, that kinda stuff.

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 12:12 AM

Consider hitting the enemy with things that target fort and maybe Will. Don't target reflex, whatever ya do. Scrolls of Blindness/Deafness, maybe?

Also, a Scroll of Limited Wish to emulate Psychic Reformation can let you change your build, permanently. ;) ;)

A wand of Wings of Cover basically means "No, that attack didn't actually hit me"...

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 12:19 AM

There is just so much you can do lol. I wouldn't of thought or found out half of this stuff. I guess being a veteran has advantages. Well Im goin to bed for tonight going to try and post what i have as soon as i get it. I like that scroll to turn him evil lol.
Last question what can i get to raise umc

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 12:24 AM

Item based...?

Well... most of that stuff is spells, or custom wondrous items of competence bonuses.

The main question is, "Do you count as trained for this trained only skill? What is your modifier for this skill?"

There are lots of spells that boost skills, but most of those are expended...

I wouldnt worry about the changing his alignment thing... blindness/deafness could maybe shut the fight down in your favor. Or Glitterdust. Or Stinking Cloud. Maybe Bands of Steel. Kelpstrand. Forcecage for sure would shut him down, but not in a way that you win it in a 'roguelike' manner...

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 10:24 AM

So this is what i have so far. Still need to look at poisons and scrolls.
FEATS are
multi and improved multi attack
craven
dragon fire strike
staggering strike
rapid strike.
Free feat

Items
belt of battle
Warning on two weapons
ring of dragon shape
scouts head band
glaring eye
talisman of undying fort
retribution ammy
sandals of vagabond+2init
Dust of coughing and sneezing. This lets me use sneak attack right?
Ring of anticipation.
All that is about 77k so Still 30k left

How do I get superior invisibility now?
Oh and also i have a 17umd

astrerouge

2012-07-01, 10:40 AM

mohrg tongue is a graft in libris mortis I think, that can paralyse,not sure if it will get you sneak attack but an undead tongue is alway cool.It's fort so if he's roguish,chances are that he have low fort.
Maybe it could help

EDIT:also isn't there a magic armor in BOED that pretty much negates every non magical attack,could help too if I ain't wrong

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 10:46 AM

If there paralysed can't you cou theme

mucco

2012-07-01, 11:50 AM

Of course. And sneak attack applies. :smallsmile:

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 12:00 PM

So paralyzing. Scrolls and invisibility is all i have left to figure out.
He says he plans to kill me when i attack him.
so i don't know what do do to prepare lol. Ugh

whibla

2012-07-01, 12:20 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if this thread hasn't devolved from "how does my rogue beat his assassin" to "how do my magic items WIN".

Still, why not go the whole hog, if you're worried about any spells or items he's carrying, and start with a scroll or two of Mordenkainen's Disjunction...

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 01:13 PM

Well when you have two characters optimizing against one another. Seems like that items especially with 110k seems to determine the battle.

Yea i think i need to get that scroll!! How much is it and what is my umc i will need to hit
.also i found a way to get plus two to umc to get 17 but i would like over 22 if possible. Is there more ways?

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 03:02 PM

Custom magic item of competence bonus, check the srd and dmg rules on custom magic items.

Toliudar

2012-07-01, 03:11 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if this thread hasn't devolved from "how does my rogue beat his assassin" to "how do my magic items WIN".

We know nothing of the arena, very little about the other character, and the only variable for 'our' rogue is his gear. What else would you like to talk about?

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 03:33 PM

We know nothing of the arena, very little about the other character, and the only variable for 'our' rogue is his gear. What else would you like to talk about?

This! There really isn't much else to talk about.

mighty barry

2012-07-01, 03:50 PM

Yea in kinda in the blind here. Thanks for all the help guys will sort the oeutcome tonight

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 03:55 PM

just disjunction him, then drop the dust from flying above him and then if he isn't dead from con damage, deal full sneak attack in Gold Dragon form.

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-01, 07:50 PM

Remember: disjunction or greater dispel magic then debuff and stun then melee.

Averis Vol

2012-07-01, 11:25 PM

If you want some higher hit+dmg don't forget about pemanancied greater magic fang. +5 to hit/dmg is useful, especially with a 6 str (>.>--l--<.<). you could also alter self into a dwarf ancestor(?) for a sweet+19 Nat Armor(may be a few points off) but at that point just man up and poly into a war troll (yes I understand this is just saying that being a wizard wins. but if you think about it rogues all want to be wizards anyways) then theres garroting strike, trade away some D6 SA for 1d4 con damage.

lets see. I'd also try and find something like an amulet of natural attacks+fierce to transfer your dex to AC to damage and just rely on things like displacement to save your hide (and Dwarf ancestors intense NA). Ohh and make use of your potentially massive hide check, create terrain if you have to, but you need to do this so you get more buffing rounds (without resorting to scrolls of Time stop.)

On to his opponent, I believe he's going for robilars gambit+Double hit+Karmic strike. and if thats the case, get an on activate item of bloodwind and use your natural weapons at a range. Best way to spot this is if he drops his AC and basically lets you hit him. If he is you want to stay away from him, a good choice would be a shadow cloak (DoTU) for the immediate move action teleport 10 ft. just wait til he declares his attack before using it.

Thats all I can think of for now, if I find anything else I'll chime in.

EDIT: oops, post is useless. :smallfrown:

Stomp his smug ass into the ground. >=D

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-02, 12:26 AM

Actually, being a Dragonwrought Kobold, the best Alter Self forms for him include:

Pseudodragon.........MM..........210........Dragon , Tiny

Crested Felldrake (MM2), 2HD, 4 NA, s, 40ft, Bite (1d8)
Spitting Felldrake (MM2), 3HD, 4 NA, m, 30ft, Bite (1d6)
Fang Dragon (MoF), 3HD, 2 NA, t, 60 + Fly 90 (Average) Trip*
Horned Felldrake (MM2), 4HD, 7 NA, m, 30ft, Horn (2d6), Charge* (4d6+2*Strength)
Wyrmling Ethereal Dragon (Drac), 4HD, 3 NA, t, 60 + Fly 60 (poor)
Wyrmling Shadow Dragon (Drac), 4HD, 7 NA, t, 80 (Capped at 60) + Fly 150 (Capped at 120) (Average)
Wyrmling Battle Dragon (Drac), 5HD, 5NA, t, 40, Fly 100 (average)
The above come with 2 claws and a bite for 1d3 and 1d4 respectively.
Wyrmling Styx Dragon (Drac), 5HD, 4 NA, s, 60ft + Swim 60ft + Burrow 20ft, 2 Tail Blades (1d6) + Bite (1d6), Improved Grab* Constrict* (For 2*Tail Blade Damage)
Portal Drake (Underdark), 5HD, 4 NA, s, 40ft + Burrow 20ft + Fly 90 (Average), Bite (1d6) + 2 Claws (1d4), +4 Hide and Move Silently
Wyrmling Crystal Dragon (MM2), 5HD, 4 NA, s, 40ft + Fly 100ft (average) + Burrow 5ft + Swim 40ft
Wyrmling Sapphire Dragon (MM2), 5HD, 3 NA, t, 40ft + Fly 100ft (average) + Burrow 15ft + Swim 10ft

Kuulvheysoon

2012-07-02, 12:36 AM

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-02, 12:44 AM

And Alter Self pretty much gets you access to none of those abilities!

Tyndmyr

2012-07-02, 09:23 AM

[QUOTE=mighty barry;13480185]My dm made a character and pretty much told me i couldn't beat him. So of course i took his challenge. This is a rogue battle so i decided make a dragonwrought kobald that uses natural attacks. He is using a twf crit fisher. Our builds are set in stone but we can change items until tomorrow. /QUOTE]

You've probably already done it by now, but defeating a crit fisher is easy. Immunity to crits is step 1. I prefer the hear of X buffs for this. Then, stacking miss chances. Blink is particularly good as it's hard to negate, but at least slap blur on top of that.

Invisibility is amusing for starters. Wand socket with a wand of Wings of Cover negates the first attack every round. Mirror Image(and the 30 temp hp from heart of earth) will give you some ablative defenses. Once expended, discharge heart of earth for stoneskin and laugh a lot.

Kuulvheysoon

2012-07-02, 12:53 PM

And Alter Self pretty much gets you access to none of those abilities!

Agh! Too many dragon threads. I may have gotten this one mixed up with another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248155).

mighty barry

2012-07-02, 01:22 PM

Yea i lost his poison did 2d 6 strength dmg three times

Augmental

2012-07-02, 01:30 PM

Yea i lost his poison did 2d 6 strength dmg three times

You didn't get poison immunity? He said he was an assassin, after all.

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-02, 01:50 PM

Why didn't you get poison immunity or immunity to ability damage?? It was one of the first things we told you to get... >.>

We mentioned the thing that gets you undead immunities! Why didn't you get that...

Spells can get you immunity to that; you had enough money for that sort of thing.

Max out your ranks in Use Magic Device and get a wand of Sheltered Vitality. Immunity to ability drain and ability damage.

Getting immunity to ability damage/drain isn't that hard, though; isn't there a spell, Veil of Undeath or the like, that would grant him undead immunities temporarily?

Sheltered Vitality is a level 3 spell! You could have easily gotten it on a wand or a scroll. WHY didn't you use that if you knew he would be doing ability damage???

Dairuga

2012-07-03, 01:26 PM

Yep.
This was an extremely interesting thread, finding it at the front page, reading about this story and how it evolved. I always do tend to like such stories, people needing help for scenarios and gearing up to solve them.

And then this one, it seems, came to a rather unsatisfying conclusion.
Yes, getting immunity to ability damage was one of the first things that was mentioned. I suppose it got overlooked in all the rubble of Morderkainen's disjuction, polymorphing and UMD checks speak. Such a shame, such a shame, really.

Perhaps you could ask for a rematch? Because it honestly is not a very fair fight, now, if he simply goes "One attack, you are poisoned, now dead. Tadaa, I won". Because really. Now he was just using your inattentiveness and your inexperience in this to win, claiming you could not defeat his character. You have plenty of chances to defeat his character, you just never got one beacuse of a cheap shot. Granted, him being an assassin, it would be rather obvious that it was going to be a battle of cheap shots, but -still-.

And now, since the battle is over; perhaps you could ask him how he got his stats so high? I am very interested in knowing how he spent gold to increase his stats. -Very- interested. Either he has some very flawed grasps on the rules, or he have found something that it seems everyone has failed to explain; leading me to believe the former is true. So I would be very happy if you could provide that information, if you get it from him.

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-03, 01:30 PM

So, OP, are you going to reply?

mighty barry

2012-07-09, 05:41 PM

Will reply here shortly sorry for the delay. It was kind of a Crappy way to lose. At work and have been really busy

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-09, 06:20 PM

Well... granted, we did tell you to become immune to ability damage pretty early on. Did you just not have enough time to go through the posts??

mighty barry

2012-07-09, 06:51 PM

Ok so i did get that wand that granted undead immunities and i could not find the mordenkaiser distinction in a book so i justidn't use it. Had limited time to look because this was before our campaign. the reason i lost the first battle was because i had the immunity wand in the haversack and when i transformed the people dming agreed i couldn't use it. So after i cuffed etc made him dance with Otto s irresistible dance to buy time i went in and landed the first attack to get poisoned and lose ten strength. After that i didn't hit once and it lasted two more turns until i had 1 strength.
I did beat him after that in a rematch. Also if i used disjunction at all he said himself he would of lost. So it wasn't terrible just now this assassin will be following me in game. Thanks for all the help guys

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-09, 07:26 PM

Well Disjunction is in the Players Handbook, FYI.

Also... in the game where he is following you around? Kill the Assassin. Seriously. Plenty of Divinations can get you to him if he is hiding and tailing you, and you can just murder him. Nothing is stopping you from doing that at any time. And there are plenty of ways to trap the soul of the character so he can't be resurrected.

And dragons can use equipment, hello! They have perfectly workable hands, too. It's in the Draconomicon... it talks about all the sorts of gear dragons wear, all the time! So you could have a Haversack that a dragon could use, and Polymorph says only gear that CAN NOT be worm melds. It's different than Wild Shape.. Dragons can definitely wear a satchel that goes around the neck and foreleg...

I would have SERIOUSLY contested that ruling that dragons don't use gear... it violates both the polymorph thing, descriptions of gold dragons, AND information in the Draconomicon.

mighty barry

2012-07-09, 07:53 PM

In the game my character works for these assassins. Ill eventually break away from them when they have me do something to absurd like kill a party member. I was sold to them by my parents fyi.

I fought it for a bit but ill just let him know his who is invalid :-)

yea the problem with finding him is he will disguise alot

Gavinfoxx

2012-07-09, 08:22 PM

Why do you work for them? Do you have to work for them? Why dont you decide to, you know..

Not work for them!

Wow. Imagine that. Taking control of the game and your character's destiny! What a thing to do!

Also... Divinations of the right sort go STRAIGHT THROUGH disguises.

Dont find him mundanely. Find him with magic.

You have sufficient UMD to activate level 9 scrolls, yes?

Get a scroll of shapechange, use it to become a creature that is basically omnicient, use a bunch of free action at will divinations to know where he is and what he is up to, then teleport to him, and murder him with the shapechange abilities.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080611085922/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-226959

Shapechange -> Elemental Weird (know anything and everything) -> something with an accurate teleport -> murder -> teleport away.