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Silus
2012-06-30, 06:40 PM
So, I'm tinkering with the umpteenth character idea for a Pathfinder Society game, and I've got a question regarding casters (any game with casters really). Are there ways to weaponize non-weapon spells and do it in the confines of the rules and errata?

First thing springs to mind is the Pathfiners' "Animate Rope" spell to knot itself into a noose and lynch enemies on, say, tree branches or overhead beams or railings (Not sure how it would play in-game, but it's an interesting thought).

Anyone have any more?

Craft (Cheese)
2012-06-30, 06:52 PM
The use of illusions to get enemies to kill themselves is always fun. Need to destroy an enemy ship? Use illusions to hide and iceberg and proceed to reenact Titanic...

Grimsage Matt
2012-06-30, 06:57 PM
Enchantment spells are ye best friend:smallbiggrin: Behold a ayer of decit and bargins, where you send them spirling down into paranoid madness, killing each other, their friends, all they held dear, because of the lies you wisphered in their ear:smallbiggrin: It's Evil and I love it.

Ridureyu
2012-06-30, 07:14 PM
Any spell that moves objects can be used to trigger an avalanche, cave-in, or sudden crushing collapse of trash.

madock345
2012-06-30, 07:18 PM
Repulsion is great for trapping people in dangerous areas...
It's not exactly a non-combat spell, but it's meant as a protective spell, when it can be quite good for battlefeild controll.

Crumble is a third level druid spell that can bring a good size building down ontop of the people inside it. bridges are fun too.
Bonus points if your DM lets you use the spell to sunder enemy weapons and armor (technically allowed by the spell description)

Make Manifest, Mass: If your setting has lots of coexistant or coterminous planes, this spell has the potential to dump a whole load of (probably very confused) extra-planar creatures in the middle of the battlefield.

Silence isn't just good for mages, you can also use it to prevent the big bad from giving his henchmen orders.

GolemsVoice
2012-06-30, 07:30 PM
Grease the right area(s) and watch your enemies slip hilariously to their deaths. Or be unable to escape an area in time. Or maybe they can't use that doorknob? Too bad.

Ridureyu
2012-06-30, 07:41 PM
Anything that makes noise can set off a stampede.

CET
2012-06-30, 11:43 PM
Rope trick - Hide an assassination team where you think your enemies are going to make camp. Once the camp is sleeping, the team appears in the middle of camp, without alerting any sentries, and starts taking out leaders and targets of opportunity.


Two that I recall from older versions of DnD (might have been 2nd ed) that didn't seem to make it into Pathfinder:

Dig - drop a bunch of enemies into a pit. Then rain arrows down on them.

Enlarge - Good for escapes as a sort of impromptu 'wall' spell that turns some convenient object into a large obstacle.

TuggyNE
2012-06-30, 11:57 PM
Dig - drop a bunch of enemies into a pit. Then rain arrows down on them.

Enlarge - Good for escapes as a sort of impromptu 'wall' spell that turns some convenient object into a large obstacle.

Move earth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/move-earth) and releasing shrink item (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shrink-item) work for you?

Really, shrink item shenanigans could fill a whole book I think.

Create food and water can be weaponized against animals as a distraction, I'd think; certainly with the use of prestidigitation added.

Drazik
2012-07-01, 09:54 AM
i had a player in my group use light on an enemies eyelashes, blinding him.

the same player also noted that the create water spell does not specify teh density of water created, so he would create about 10 gallons of water in a single square millimeter inside someones body, and watch them explode.

the same player again asked me if he could use mage hand on someones eyes, because it takes a lot less then 5 pounds of force to pop an eyeball.

Ashtagon
2012-07-01, 10:00 AM
Move earth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/move-earth) and releasing shrink item (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shrink-item) work for you?

Really, shrink item shenanigans could fill a whole book I think.

Create food and water can be weaponized against animals as a distraction, I'd think; certainly with the use of prestidigitation added.

It'd take ten minutes to use move earth to make a 10 foot pit. Not exactly a spell for use in combat.

Grimsage Matt
2012-07-01, 10:00 AM
Funny thing for Mage hand.... there's this little nerve just behind the eyes.... nudge it slightly and watch 'em kneel over:smallbiggrin:

Also, that plant growing one plus awaken. You have a large patch of Crab Grass that will trap opponets

GolemsVoice
2012-07-01, 10:57 AM
It'd take ten minutes to use move earth to make a 10 foot pit. Not exactly a spell for use in combat.
Not while IN combat, but you surely can prepare traps with it, or make them part of an ambush.

Jay R
2012-07-01, 11:26 AM
Ventriloquism, shouting false commands and information behind the goblin horde, in Goblin.

"Retreat! We've been betrayed!"

"Attack left, there are elves in the woods!"

"Ignore the cavalry! It's an illusion!"

Even "Charge!" if you do it when your trap is ready.

TuggyNE
2012-07-01, 08:43 PM
It'd take ten minutes to use move earth to make a 10 foot pit. Not exactly a spell for use in combat.

Fair enough; undermaster speeds this up, however, to a standard action.

supermonkeyjoe
2012-07-04, 04:39 AM
Funny thing for Mage hand.... there's this little nerve just behind the eyes.... nudge it slightly and watch 'em kneel over:smallbiggrin:


If you have line of sight and line of effect to that nerve then I think the least of their worries is what you do to it.

grease is great for moving heavy things, like large boulders off cliffs (preferably onto someone below)

Water Walk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/waterWalk.htm) is effectively a save or die against any water-breathing creature, best thing is you can ouch multiple creatures

Morghen
2012-07-04, 01:32 PM
Depending on the leniency of the GM, Feather Fall can be a useful defense against thrown boulders or ballista bolts.

Transmute Rock to Mud is an aMAYzing offensive spell underground. Mud is still very heavy.

Part Water can be brutal. Cast under the surface it creates a tube of air. I hit a little village of water-dwelling critters who lived on the bottom and drowned something like 50 of them.

Levitate is a save or die spell for anything that doesn't have flight. Even if you don't have time to put the victim into orbit, just stash 'em 10' off the ground and deal with them once you've killed their mates.

Of course, all of these are dependent on the wording the specific system uses.

Xiander
2012-07-04, 05:04 PM
Grease the right area(s) and watch your enemies slip hilariously to their deaths. Or be unable to escape an area in time. Or maybe they can't use that doorknob? Too bad.

My first thought upon reading the title, was to grease a sloping floor and send heavy crates sliding down towards oncoming attackers. :smallbiggrin:

Toofey
2012-07-04, 05:30 PM
Non-combat spell?

It's hard to even think of any that aren't written with some sort of possibilities in combat

I'm a mostly 2e player, so I'm thinking of mending...

Maybe if there's a snapped rope trailing from some big moving thing you could tie the other bit of rope to something then use mending to join them on the fly.

Zarrgon
2012-07-05, 11:16 PM
Are there ways to weaponize non-weapon spells and do it in the confines of the rules and errata?
Anyone have any more?

All most all of the physical spells can be weaponized.

Mage hand/levitate/telekinesis and any other spell that can move and manipulate objects can be weaponized. The easy way is to just drop things on foes. Or set up falling traps. A super classic here is to use mage hand to move a flask of alchemist fire over to a foe and then hit them with a fire spell.

Mount makes a weapon of sorts. It can provide cover and it can be good bait.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-07-06, 12:23 AM
i had a player in my group use light on an enemies eyelashes, blinding him.

the same player also noted that the create water spell does not specify teh density of water created, so he would create about 10 gallons of water in a single square millimeter inside someones body, and watch them explode.

the same player again asked me if he could use mage hand on someones eyes, because it takes a lot less then 5 pounds of force to pop an eyeball.

Water is non-compressible, so summoning 10 gallons into a square (cubic, it's a liquid after all) millimeter shouldn't even be possible in the first place.

I'm also fairly certain an eyeball don't count as an unattended object, which is sort of the only things mage hand is effective for.

Sadly I don't have much to add on the spell shenanigans here, I generally don't play casters.

Drazik
2012-07-06, 09:34 AM
Water is non-compressible, so summoning 10 gallons into a square (cubic, it's a liquid after all) millimeter shouldn't even be possible in the first place.

I'm also fairly certain an eyeball don't count as an unattended object, which is sort of the only things mage hand is effective for.

Sadly I don't have much to add on the spell shenanigans here, I generally don't play casters.

details details, lol. :smallbiggrin:

sparkyinbozo
2012-07-06, 10:10 AM
Wall of Force can be a really nasty trick to pull in certain situations; pretty much any time someone is moving quickly and needs a broken nose.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-07-06, 11:58 AM
details details, lol. :smallbiggrin:

I've started to play GURPS, details happen! :p

Grelna the Blue
2012-07-06, 12:30 PM
Arcane Lock or Hold Portal can be deadly in the right circumstances. I once almost TPK'd a party trapped in a small room with a couple of rukh rakshasas who cast Stinking Cloud (to which they, of course, were immune) and Hold Portal. The same tactic would work with any damaging cloud spell, and there are various ways for a hostile caster to get immunity to an environmental spell the party cannot escape (Control Water is another good choice in an enclosed area containing a fountain or subterranean stream). Heck, even a simple Open/Close cantrip on an open but already Arcane Locked door could accomplish the same ends.

NinjaTBB
2012-07-06, 10:39 PM
i had a player in my group use light on an enemies eyelashes, blinding him.

the same player also noted that the create water spell does not specify teh density of water created, so he would create about 10 gallons of water in a single square millimeter inside someones body, and watch them explode.

the same player again asked me if he could use mage hand on someones eyes, because it takes a lot less then 5 pounds of force to pop an eyeball.

"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature..." -PHB p. 172

"Note: Conjuration spells can't create substances or objects within a creature." -PHB p. 215

Craft (Cheese)
2012-07-06, 10:47 PM
"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature..." -PHB p. 172

"Note: Conjuration spells can't create substances or objects within a creature." -PHB p. 215

Directly adjacent to them then: The decompression would still be very damaging.

EDIT: Or better yet. Just compress it into a black hole and proceed to destroy the world.

MachineWraith
2012-07-07, 04:04 AM
Directly adjacent to them then: The decompression would still be very damaging.

EDIT: Or better yet. Just compress it into a black hole and proceed to destroy the world.

Water isn't compressible. And if you really expect anyone ever to buy that you create a black hole with Create Water...well, then you game with very different people than me.

Xiander
2012-07-07, 04:30 AM
Water isn't compressible. And if you really expect anyone ever to buy that you create a black hole with Create Water...well, then you game with very different people than me.

I chuckle every time someone tries to sugest that if you misinterpret the text enough a spell can be cast in a way that emulates the effect of a spell at least three levels higher.

If you could permanently blind people with mage hand, why would anuone cast Blindness/Deafness. If you could explode a man with create water, what would the point of powerword: die be?

I am all for creative use of low level spells. But the creativity should be in how you employ the spell, not how you read the text.

The Random NPC
2012-07-07, 05:11 AM
Water isn't compressible. And if you really expect anyone ever to buy that you create a black hole with Create Water...well, then you game with very different people than me.

Wait, when you say water isn't compressible, do you mean it doesn't compress well, or at all?

Craft (Cheese)
2012-07-07, 05:14 AM
Err, I wasn't exactly being serious <.<

Drazik
2012-07-07, 09:47 AM
also, we (meaning myself, the DM, and the other players at the table) knew that he was interpreting the text wrongly and what he was doing probably wouldn't work (i had forgotten that water isn't compressible though), but we thought it would be hilarious so we let it pass.

in case you couldn't tell, we play a very... relaxed game. :smallbiggrin:

MachineWraith
2012-07-07, 02:25 PM
Wait, when you say water isn't compressible, do you mean it doesn't compress well, or at all?

It's doable but very difficult. Easy way to test: get a syringe (without a needle!) and fill it with air. Cover the end, and see how far you can depress the plunger without air escaping. Repeat with water.

eulmanis12
2012-07-07, 08:51 PM
Load a catapult with sand, fire at enemy, cast mass enlarge object, instant rain of boulders.

Teleporting Items, possibly heavy ones to directly above the enemy's head.

teleport small items inside the enemy's body, my favorite is a large rock to the inside of their mouth, choking them.

scatter thumbtacks on the field, cast enlarge object to get a forest of spikes.

for naval battles, casting shrink object on a boat to drop the crew into the water.

Create water is fun, use it inside their skull, they die of water to the brain, use it on fire elementals,

Illusion of a floor over a pit of spikes

Wells
2013-06-04, 03:58 PM
the same player also noted that the create water spell does not specify teh density of water created, so he would create about 10 gallons of water in a single square millimeter inside someones body, and watch them explode.


Aside from the commentary about water not being compressible, I am pretty sure that there are rules about conjuration spells not allowing you to conjure things like water within another object, so no filling a person to overflowing with water, or causing nuclear reactions within them to create a small nuclear reaction... ;)

However, I have used the create water spell quite effectively as a reusable cantrip against creatures, conjuring all of the water directly over a monster's head in a column to have cascade down upon them. Having ten or so gallons of water crash down on top of you suddenly has a tendency to cause you to fall, since it is the equivalent of having 80 pounds suddenly fall on top of you, not to mention the slippery surface you are suddenly trodding upon.

What is not stated in the spell description, and what I would ask for a ruling on, is just what state the water has to be in... does it have to be 10 gallons in liquid form, or can you specify the state as being a gas or a solid?

mjlush
2013-06-04, 04:31 PM
Any spell that moves objects can be used to trigger an avalanche, cave-in, or sudden crushing collapse of trash.

Magic Mouth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMouth.htm) is an interesting spell It states that "if it were placed upon a statue, the mouth of the statue would move and appear to speak."

Basically as I read it if you made a statue with a ring grasped in its mouth it could be set up so when the mouth moves the ring would be released.

Given that magic mouth is permanent until discharged and can be set off by any trigger this makes the building block for some really creative traps.

BWR
2013-06-04, 04:48 PM
Ventriloquism, shouting false commands and information behind the goblin horde, in Goblin.

"Retreat! We've been betrayed!"

"Attack left, there are elves in the woods!"

"Ignore the cavalry! It's an illusion!"

Even "Charge!" if you do it when your trap is ready.

Am I the only one who plays with people having noticable accents (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49CkgeQVh70)when speaking non-native languages?
Or even native languages (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg)?

imaloony
2013-06-04, 04:50 PM
Back before there was a size restriction on Summon Instrument. Nothing says hilarity like dropping a Church Organ on top of a Demon.

TeChameleon
2013-06-04, 05:05 PM
I think my favourite from an actual game that I've played would have to be mage handing a bag of holding, then stuffing it down over an enemy's head (obviously, the enemy was less than 200 lbs :smalltongue:). Then I dumped the bag out over the edge of the very tall tower we were fighting on top of.

Another one that I was amused to get the chance to try was using mage hand to take an enemy goblin's (already detached) head and make it float, then prestigidation to make it glow and surround it with glowing runes that said 'Head of Vecna'. The DM ruled that the incoming army of Orcs we were supposed to hold off took one look at that and turned around and left :smallbiggrin:

Jbr208
2013-06-04, 06:34 PM
What is not stated in the spell description, and what I would ask for a ruling on, is just what state the water has to be in... does it have to be 10 gallons in liquid form, or can you specify the state as being a gas or a solid?

I would say it is mentioned in the spell description based on this line: "This spell generates wholesome, drinkable water, just like clean rain water." I might be silly, but I don't generally consider "clean rain water" to be any state but liquid.

Would be fun to create 2*CL gallons of ice over an enemy though. Equally handy to spread out over a few hundred blenders for the largest batch of margaritas ever dreamed of :smallbiggrin: Why no, I don't drink too much, why would you ever ask such a thing?

Slipperychicken
2013-06-05, 01:30 AM
Back before there was a size restriction on Summon Instrument. Nothing says hilarity like dropping a Church Organ on top of a Demon.

Actually, this is also illegal because:


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

This is the text which is supposed to prevent shenanigans like dropping bears on people for falling damage. If you want to drop things like bears and whales and grand pianos on people, you've got to put some work into it, use some creativity, not just misinterpreting a 1st level spell 'cuz it's funny.

Lvl45DM!
2013-06-05, 01:49 AM
Actually, this is also illegal because:



This is the text which is supposed to prevent shenanigans like dropping bears on people for falling damage. If you want to drop things like bears and whales and grand pianos on people, you've got to put some work into it, use some creativity, not just misinterpreting a 1st level spell 'cuz it's funny.

Demons can totally support a church organ!

Slipperychicken
2013-06-05, 01:58 AM
Demons can totally support a church organ!

If you're fighting a Demon large enough to qualify as an open location capable of supporting a church organ, summoning one on it isn't going to help you much :smallbiggrin:

Lord Torath
2013-06-05, 08:11 AM
Gust of Wind is great for knocking flyers to the ground.

Cast Spider Climb on an enemy caster to prevent spells with somatic or material components (Their hands get too sticky to handle small items) Edit: I should also check the spell description to make certain it has a range other than zero (the caster).


Wall of Force can be a really nasty trick to pull in certain situations; pretty much any time someone is moving quickly and needs a broken nose.Put it in the air with the bottom just about neck level in front of charging bad guys. Face hits wall and stops, body continues forward leaving the charging creatures on their backs on the ground with sore necks.

Also works great at about knee level to the ground as an invisible trip-line.

imaloony
2013-06-05, 08:55 AM
If you're fighting a Demon large enough to qualify as an open location capable of supporting a church organ, summoning one on it isn't going to help you much :smallbiggrin:

It still counts as a holy weapon.

Slipperychicken
2013-06-05, 10:45 AM
It still counts as a holy weapon.

What's the size category on a church organ, again? Nothing short of Hulking-Hurler-esque shenanigans could even hold it.

Lord Torath
2013-06-05, 01:35 PM
What's the size category on a church organ, again? Nothing short of Hulking-Hurler-esque shenanigans could even hold it.Here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html).
Of course, I'm still going to argue that, 1st, it's against the rules to summon it on top of the fiend, 2nd, just because it's from a church, doesn't make it a Holy Weapon, and 3rd, even if all this is true, so is this:

If you're fighting a Demon large enough to qualify as an open location capable of supporting a church organ, summoning one on it isn't going to help you much :smallbiggrin:And said Demon is now holding a giant pipe organ it can lob in your general direction.

There are a lot of very useful Cantrips from 1E AD&D:

Untie: Undo your opponent's boot/sandal laces. Followed up with Tie, to tie them to each other.

Cut: Cut the girth holding his saddle to his mount. Hilarity ensues. Or Cut the strap on his quiver, or better yet, his bowstring. There are countless critical straps and ropes you can target with this.

Wrap: Instantly wrap your opponent's gear in tight linen wrappings.

I suppose Prestidigitation might let you do those effects under current rules?

Edit: Removed ambiguity from the organ the demon was holding. Apparently TomandTish needed some clarification. :smalltongue:

SymPhoenix
2013-06-05, 04:36 PM
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Unnatural Lust yet..or maybe it's just me. The spell makes any creature (who fails a Will save, obviously) attempt to pleasure and kiss the object of the spell, which is any other creature or object. I've used it to make a bandit lust after a charging owlbear..nasty little mess that was.

tomandtish
2013-06-05, 05:21 PM
Rope trick provides an instant murder hole to drop things or fire missles down on your opponent.


Here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html).
And said Demon is now holding a giant organ it can lob in your general direction.

That's just.... wrong. :smallredface:

Jay R
2013-06-05, 05:44 PM
Am I the only one who plays with people having noticable accents (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49CkgeQVh70)when speaking non-native languages?
Or even native languages (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg)?

While I mentioned Goblins, the last time I actually did this was in a civil war, with Englishmen on each side.

Slipperychicken
2013-06-05, 06:04 PM
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Unnatural Lust yet..or maybe it's just me. The spell makes any creature (who fails a Will save, obviously) attempt to pleasure and kiss the object of the spell, which is any other creature or object. I've used it to make a bandit lust after a charging owlbear..nasty little mess that was.

Because that's the intended use of the spell?

It has very little noncombat application, especially when the target just reports 6 seconds later that some jerkass cast a 2nd level spell on him, or someone hears/sees the casting happening, or someone uses a DC 15 Sense Motive check to notice he's under the effect of a literal spell.

SymPhoenix
2013-06-05, 06:37 PM
Because that's the intended use of the spell?

It has very little noncombat application, especially when the target just reports 6 seconds later that some jerkass cast a 2nd level spell on him, or someone hears/sees the casting happening, or someone uses a DC 15 Sense Motive check to notice he's under the effect of a literal spell.

My bad. Wasn't sure of the definition of 'combat', and that's my fault.

Slipperychicken
2013-06-05, 09:06 PM
My bad. Wasn't sure of the definition of 'combat', and that's my fault.

No problem. The Owlbear thing is pretty awesome though :smallbiggrin:

Firest Kathon
2013-06-06, 08:13 AM
Rope trick - Hide an assassination team where you think your enemies are going to make camp. Once the camp is sleeping, the team appears in the middle of camp, without alerting any sentries, and starts taking out leaders and targets of opportunity.

Unfortunately no longer possible in Pathfinder, as you cannot move the rope as long as the spell is in effect. [Source (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rope-trick)]

The rope cannot be removed or hidden.


It'd take ten minutes to use move earth to make a 10 foot pit. Not exactly a spell for use in combat.

You can use Create Pit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-pit) to make one in a standard action, but I think this no longer counts as a non-combat spell :smallwink:. However, you can also add spikes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spiked-pit) and acid (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acid-pit) or make it crush (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hungry-pit) those that fall into it.

SethoMarkus
2013-06-06, 11:49 AM
It would be reliant on fluff and DM approval, but what about use of Prestidigitation to assassinate an NPC with a food allergy? It says that you can make minor changes to food items, such as changing taste and appearance (I think), so would it be possible to use an established food allergy against the NPC? Such as making the peanut butter look and taste like oatmeal? Not really "combat" but still fits the bill.

Slipperychicken
2013-06-06, 01:36 PM
It would be reliant on fluff and DM approval, but what about use of Prestidigitation to assassinate an NPC with a food allergy? It says that you can make minor changes to food items, such as changing taste and appearance (I think), so would it be possible to use an established food allergy against the NPC? Such as making the peanut butter look and taste like oatmeal? Not really "combat" but still fits the bill.

That wouldn't grant the properties which cause the allergic reaction, just the taste and smell, no more.

On that thought, Prestidigitation would be wonderful for allergic people, since they can still enjoy the same flavor.

Lord Torath
2013-06-06, 01:51 PM
Could you use prestidigitation to transfer some peanut oil from your hand to your target's oatmeal? I don't know the specifics of that spell, which is why I'm asking.

SethoMarkus
2013-06-06, 02:10 PM
That wouldn't grant the properties which cause the allergic reaction, just the taste and smell, no more.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I mean serving peanut butter to a king with a peanut allergy, using prestidigitation to make the peanut butter appear and taste like oatmeal, for example. Disguising the actual allergen as something less lethal.

Deophaun
2013-06-06, 02:53 PM
Water is non-compressible
If that were true, sound would propagate through it faster than the speed of light.

Lord Torath
2013-06-06, 03:41 PM
If that were true, sound would propagate through it faster than the speed of light.Okay, yes, if you want to nit-pick, you can compress water. The water at the bottom of the Mariana Trench is ever-so-slightly more dense than the water at the surface. However, this thread is about clever uses of "innocuous" spells in combat. If you want to discuss the physical properties of water, start a new thread. For the purposes of its use in D&D and similar games, water (and any other liquid) can be considered incompressible.

Slipperychicken
2013-06-06, 03:54 PM
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I mean serving peanut butter to a king with a peanut allergy, using prestidigitation to make the peanut butter appear and taste like oatmeal, for example. Disguising the actual allergen as something less lethal.

Wow, I barely read your post at all. My bad.

SethoMarkus
2013-06-06, 10:27 PM
Wow, I barely read your post at all. My bad.

No harm :smallsmile: I was originally going to use it the way you assumed, but decided against it for the same reasons you posted.

Back on topic, how about using Freedom of Movement on an enemy when everyone is suspended over a spiked pit via Web spell? Not sure if that would be legal, and the enemy would have to be willing to accept the spell's effects, but once they try to move at all they would be free of the web and instantly fall. (I know, very situational at best!)

TuggyNE
2013-06-06, 10:44 PM
Back on topic, how about using Freedom of Movement on an enemy when everyone is suspended over a spiked pit via Web spell? Not sure if that would be legal, and the enemy would have to be willing to accept the spell's effects, but once they try to move at all they would be free of the web and instantly fall. (I know, very situational at best!)

It is situational, but it's perfectly legal, and the enemy need not be willing (they get a Will save if they aren't, but they could easily fail it).

Acanous
2013-06-06, 10:55 PM
Most of the weaponized uses of low level spells, for me, are in conjunction with High level spells. So you can Quicken the low-level spell.

Like a Prismatic Wall and quickened Gust of Wind to force an enemy through it.

BWR
2013-06-07, 04:06 AM
I'd say Gust of Wind is a combat spell. Typically designed for battlefield control and deals some damage.

Lakaz
2013-06-07, 02:55 PM
A friend of mine told me this one. Her favourite way to incapacitate a foe was to fight them on a stone floor, cast stone-to-mud transmutation and wait for the foe to seek into the mud, before casting mud-to-stone again.

Ashtagon
2013-06-07, 03:08 PM
A friend of mine told me this one. Her favourite way to incapacitate a foe was to fight them on a stone floor, cast stone-to-mud transmutation and wait for the foe to seek into the mud, before casting mud-to-stone again.

Or just dispel your earlier spell.

User Name
2013-06-08, 05:05 AM
How about using Greater Summoning Instrument to summon a primed cannon? They're used in the 1812 Overture and are therefore musical instruments, correct?

A Tad Insane
2013-06-08, 11:17 AM
Never let the chem major have spark. The world will burn, and there's jack you can do to stop.

Siosilvar
2013-06-08, 11:25 AM
If that were true, sound would propagate through it faster than the speed of light.

Water is effectively non-compressible at the scales we're interested in.

You know what she meant. What's the point of debating semantics?


How about using Greater Summoning Instrument to summon a primed cannon? They're used in the 1812 Overture and are therefore musical instruments, correct?

Seems legit.

Jay R
2013-06-08, 11:56 AM
How about using Greater Summoning Instrument to summon a primed cannon? They're used in the 1812 Overture and are therefore musical instruments, correct?

You'd get a ka-boom, but no cannon ball.

When playing the 1812 Overture, the cannons fire blanks with very low powder charges. If the player thinks to put in a cannon ball himself, I'd probably let it go about 20-30 feet, since there's not enough powder to fire a ball.

The Random NPC
2013-06-08, 12:37 PM
Water is effectively non-compressible at the scales we're interested in.

You know what she meant. What's the point of debating semantics?.

I would like to point out that I asked that question nearly a year ago, with no answer. I didn't know what she meant.

User Name
2013-06-08, 01:33 PM
You'd get a ka-boom, but no cannon ball.

When playing the 1812 Overture, the cannons fire blanks with very low powder charges. If the player thinks to put in a cannon ball himself, I'd probably let it go about 20-30 feet, since there's not enough powder to fire a ball.

Hopefully the DM wouldn't be so knowledgeable, but I imagine the concussive force alone would be pretty harmful, and how about if I threw in some sand?