PF, Jade Regent character help

[Scarlet-Devil]

So, I'm joining a new group that's partway through the Jade Regent adventure path. I'll be starting at level 5, and the four major roles are already covered, so I can pretty much make whatever I want without worrying about a balanced party. The rules are core races only, 25 point buy, high average for hit points every level, and basically all Pathfinder content allowed.

I'm thinking about being an elf monk 5, starting with ability scores: 14, 18, 12, 14, 14, 11. The character would be a LG Qinggong Monk with a vow of peace and Crane Style (taking Crane Wing at 6); very defensive and mobile. I have to associate myself in some way with one of the four major NPCs, and take a trait representing our relationship. For that, I was kind've thinking about picking "Childhood Crush" with Shalelu, writing into my character's backstory that she grew up in a monastery somewhere in Varisia, and developed affection for Shalelu over the ranger's occasional sojourns at the monastery.

Anyway, I guess I was hoping to get some opinions specifically from people familiar with the adventure path, but anyone who has experience with Qinggong Monks and/or Crane Style might be able to help too. Is Crane Style going to be too strong? How would you expect this character to perform, in general, in Jade Regent?

My other, completely different and not really thought out, idea was to do something Dragon Disciple gish-y.

Edit: No spoilers! The party is currently part of a caravan to the crown of the world or something. I'm not sure how far into the adventure path that is.

[marcielle]

Monks are better used for ranged combat nowadays and while I don't really feel style lines are usually worth it, crane is one of the more decent ones. I can see the logic, stack AC, ignore the first attack, and hope the iteratives miss, but consider this: you are a passive seeming guy, you look unarmed and only trying to attack the enemy half-heartedly, and quite likely non-lethally. Most people would ignore you in favor of the guys actually TRYING to kill them. Of course, if your DM is nice then this would work pretty well. Until you run into spellcasters and supernatural abilities.

Peace is one of the more debilitating vows. Even chains are better. You can always just BE peaceful without taking the vow. Seriously, 2 rounds of fighting defensively( note, it specifically says fight defensively, you cannot use your first 2 rounds to buff with qiggong spells) could be half the battle wasted. Personally, I avoid peace, poverty, truth and silence.

Just my 2 cents though. I don't know what the rest of the group is or your average OP level so I assume middle to upper to be safe.

[ThiagoMartell]

If you want a melee monk, I'd go Strenght based. Dragon Style/Dragon Ferocity makes melee monks really worthwhile.
But I see you're going for defense, so you can't go wrong with Crane Style. If I were you, I'd invest a bit more in Wisdom - Crane Style is all about Sense Motive, after all.

[Scarlet-Devil]

'Don't take Peace.'

That's a pretty good point. I wanted to take Vow of Peace because it's a strong in-game excuse to play a pacifist monk, and because it synergizes with Qinggong by giving extra ki. I hadn't really considered how limiting it could be though, and that I might want the freedom to make the first move in the event that someone else was threatened, etc.

Any item recommendations? I'll be starting with 10,500 gp, and I was thinking about getting a Periapt of Wisdom +2, and maybe bracers of armor +2.

[deuxhero]

Your best bets for Monk in PF are Hungry Ghost Qinggong Sensei (One of the few tripple archetypes and rarer still one one that has VERY good synergy. Buff your friends with your ki powers, which are actually good thanks to Qinggong, and recover it with Hungry Ghost, especially as you can actually hit thanks to wisdom to attack. Everyone loves shared true strike on top of bardic music) and Zen Archer. Everything else will have issues keeping up because Monks are not very good at melee (Run the numbers on your AC and damage compared to even a competent fighter wielding a great sword at level 5) without tricks.

I'd like to know the rest of the party though beyond "all major roles covered".

[Scarlet-Devil]

I'd like to know the rest of the party though beyond "all major roles covered".

I don't know many specifics yet, but I believe the party is a human fighter (no other information), a human rogue, an oracle of unknown race who is apparently very pacifistic and heal-bot-y, and an elf evoker who's very blasty.

[deuxhero]

Monk may fit in blaster and heal bot party, but I question how well you can stand against the fighter. Note Crane style is REALLY weak. It's basically trading -2 to attack rolls for +2 to ac.

But because I had these numbers mostly written out before you replied, I'll post anyways.

Example numbers using not all that optimized characters.

Bob the fighter has a stats array of 18/13/14/10/10/10 and wields a great sword (2d6), with his strength and BAB and weapon training feature he does +10 damage and attack, for an average of 17 damage at a +10 to hit. He wears a masterwork (agile) breastplate and a dex bonus of +2 for a total of 7 AC.

Jie Guo the Monk has 18/12/14/12/14/11 (I'd change the 11 and one 12 to a 13 as the only odd scores outside of requirements, which are always higher than 11, that matter are Strength and Dex. This changes if you are older, but not the point now) and wields his fist (1d8). His BAB and strength give him +7 on damage and attack (This applies to 2 attack if he makes a full attack, but doing so isn't easy and only applies on your second turn, at least) for an average of 11.5. He has 2 AC from wisdom, 1 from levels, 1 from dex for a total of 4 AC.

This isn't even taking into account magic weapons/armor, which is vastly cheeper for Bob than Jie Guo, or power attack (Bob uses a 2 handed weapon, which benifits more than Jie Guo's light weapon) and other feats, which also benefit Bob more than Jie Guo if for no other reason than Bob gets more. Stunning Fist is Jie Guo's only advantage, but he can do that only 5 times per day, and enemies get a fortitude save to negate it entirely (not to mention Jie Guo must first hit, something he isn't that great at as shown above)

[Scarlet-Devil]

Monk may fit in blaster and heal bot party, but I question how well you can stand against the fighter. Note Crane style is REALLY weak. It's basically trading -2 to attack rolls for +2 to ac.


On the contrary, Crane Style is basically trading -2 to attack rolls for +3 to ac. With 3 ranks in acrobatics, it becomes +4; at that point I'd say fighting defensively is better than combat expertise. By sixth level, when the monk can take Crane Wing, he has the ability to automatically deflect any one melee attack each round, and eventually, with Crane Riposte, he gets a free AoO every time he deflects.

A fifth level monk with the stats I mentioned would have an AC of 17 (+4 dex, +2 wis, +1 monk), and 18 with dodge. Fighting defensively would make it 22, and this is without any items. So yeah, the fighter still has more offensive potential, but his defense is quite a bit worse, especially when you consider the monk's evasion, still mind, and all good saves.

[deuxhero]

Problem is you have nothing to make them attack you. The fighter could also take dodge and Crane Style.