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Rasman
2012-07-01, 01:54 AM
I am currently running a Zombie Survival game using the Savage Worlds system.

I have discovered that I am not as smart as I think I am.

I'm attempting to come up with some 'issues' for my players to run into. Obviously, food is a problem, but they just recently happened upon a cache of food and have yet to actually encounter any zombies. Two of my players have addictions, cigarettes and Yohoo, but they have decent supplies of those because they used their resources on them. For the moment, they have their shelter, they have food, they have water, they even got a hold of a van and a motorcycle so they can get around.

I'm prepared to send them to the hospital, which is where they are going to encounter their first zombies. They'll be going to save a local doctor, who an NPC Police Officer went to college with because her 8 year old son is going to accidentally be shot by a group of Rednecks that have been patrolling the town. (I know, The Walking Dead did it first, but it works and none of them have seen the show.) He's going to be on the top floor, but the hospital is full of zombies.

I have a few ideas for 'problems' to show up, but it's nowhere near enough. Him being on the top floor is bad as is, I know, but problems for them to get though will need to be big or should simply the fact that there are a LOT of zombies and it being a big 'hack and slash' combat be it?

I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this as to things for them to overcome for this situation in particular or in the future.

Grail
2012-07-01, 02:19 AM
the biggest threat in any apocalypse game is the competition for resources with other survivors. not all survivors are going to be on the same side, in fact, it's highly likely that they won't be.

Whilst they are out, have their safe-house raided. Zombies might struggle with locks and the like, but other survivors won't.

Also, in a hospital there are other threats than just zombies. The military might have placed explosives there as hospitals are always where infections will be strongest, so it's a place where they'd wipe first if it became a true pandemic that they couldn't cope with.

Also, might I suggest you play a bit of zombiepandemic.com - a free browser based MMO that will give you a few ideas.

Food and water can get spoiled by zombie infection also.

And, how does the zombie plague spread? is it only injury? or does it spread by close proximity (air borne), are the characters immune? Does being near a real high concentration of the infection require that they wear e-suits?

Bouregard
2012-07-01, 02:32 AM
About survival,
you suffocate before
you freeze to death before
you die of thirst before
you starve to death.
then there is your sanity to think off.

This should help you using their bodies against them.


Next, what type of zombie do you fight?

The strategic survival zombie, or the slow moaning corpse.

The hack'n'slash fast zombie



I prefer the shuffling, slow ones. Their main strength is that they won't tire and pound on closed doors for weeks to get inside a building where they think they find food. As an added problem you can make sure that they are attracted by noise. So while killing slow zombies is not hard with either ranged or melee weapons it will quickly become a fight gainst overwhelming odds because fight = loud noises.

Oh, did I mention that they moan? "Moan" is zombielanguage for: "Hey folk dinner is here, bring your own set of teeth". So if one sppots you the whole horde will follow you.

An additional problem will be sleeping, ever tried to sleep with maybe 200 zombies hammering away on the wooden door and moaning loud throught the night?

The slow zombies are nearly unlimited in number, make enough noise and you'll have to fight thousands. You will run out of bullets, your arms tire from hitting them. And finally one zombie will get lucky.

Now you'll ask how to beat them? Well they're not terrible bright. They can follow something they identify as food. But they can't guess or make conclussions, so if a zombie can't see or hear you then you're nonexistant to them.

Grail
2012-07-01, 02:38 AM
Oh, and anyone running a Zombie Apocalypse game, really should get and read The Zombie Survival Guide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zombie_Survival_Guide). It should be one of the main articles of source material.

It deals with many of the mistakes that people will make in the Zombie Apocalypse, and how to avoid them to actually survive.

Rasman
2012-07-01, 04:28 AM
the biggest threat in any apocalypse game is the competition for resources with other survivors. not all survivors are going to be on the same side, in fact, it's highly likely that they won't be.

Whilst they are out, have their safe-house raided. Zombies might struggle with locks and the like, but other survivors won't.

Also, in a hospital there are other threats than just zombies. The military might have placed explosives there as hospitals are always where infections will be strongest, so it's a place where they'd wipe first if it became a true pandemic that they couldn't cope with.

Also, might I suggest you play a bit of zombiepandemic.com - a free browser based MMO that will give you a few ideas.

Food and water can get spoiled by zombie infection also.

And, how does the zombie plague spread? is it only injury? or does it spread by close proximity (air borne), are the characters immune? Does being near a real high concentration of the infection require that they wear e-suits?

I will have to check out that MMO, could be interesting. To answer your questions, there are 3 triggers. Death. Bite. A specific drug that is only accessable though a hospital, i.e. not over the counter. The infection is, well, pathogenic in nature. So, in a way, it's airborne, but if the above triggers are not triggered, then you seem healthy like a regular person.



About survival,
you suffocate before
you freeze to death before
you die of thirst before
you starve to death.
then there is your sanity to think off.

This should help you using their bodies against them.


Next, what type of zombie do you fight?

The strategic survival zombie, or the slow moaning corpse.

The hack'n'slash fast zombie



I prefer the shuffling, slow ones. Their main strength is that they won't tire and pound on closed doors for weeks to get inside a building where they think they find food. As an added problem you can make sure that they are attracted by noise. So while killing slow zombies is not hard with either ranged or melee weapons it will quickly become a fight gainst overwhelming odds because fight = loud noises.

Oh, did I mention that they moan? "Moan" is zombielanguage for: "Hey folk dinner is here, bring your own set of teeth". So if one sppots you the whole horde will follow you.

An additional problem will be sleeping, ever tried to sleep with maybe 200 zombies hammering away on the wooden door and moaning loud throught the night?

The slow zombies are nearly unlimited in number, make enough noise and you'll have to fight thousands. You will run out of bullets, your arms tire from hitting them. And finally one zombie will get lucky.

Now you'll ask how to beat them? Well they're not terrible bright. They can follow something they identify as food. But they can't guess or make conclussions, so if a zombie can't see or hear you then you're nonexistant to them.

These zombies are you standard, slow zombies, like you have described. They are 100% instinctual, so sight and sound are your biggest threats. I'm thinking there might be ways to fool them, but not 100% on that.

I'm really looking for problems more unrelated to the zombies, tbh. Things that might go wrong, things what would normally be quite easy that are suddenly very difficult.


Oh, and anyone running a Zombie Apocalypse game, really should get and read The Zombie Survival Guide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zombie_Survival_Guide). It should be one of the main articles of source material.

It deals with many of the mistakes that people will make in the Zombie Apocalypse, and how to avoid them to actually survive.

DOH! I do need to go over that. I've read though it before, but it's been literally years.

Grail
2012-07-01, 04:50 AM
I will have to check out that MMO, could be interesting. To answer your questions, there are 3 triggers. Death. Bite. A specific drug that is only accessable though a hospital, i.e. not over the counter. The infection is, well, pathogenic in nature. So, in a way, it's airborne, but if the above triggers are not triggered, then you seem healthy like a regular person.


Whatever you do, keep the nature of the infection secret from the players, unless there is a good reason why they would know. Even if they have medical science skills, without access to a lab, they aren't really going to be able to study it, only theorise. This way, you can make them feel that a pile of bodies, swarming with flies, smelling of the sweet yet acrid stench of death could be a very real threat.

Definitely if they come up with some loopy theories, let them run with them. Do not, ever, try to set them straight. :smallwink:

Rasman
2012-07-01, 05:41 AM
Whatever you do, keep the nature of the infection secret from the players, unless there is a good reason why they would know. Even if they have medical science skills, without access to a lab, they aren't really going to be able to study it, only theorise. This way, you can make them feel that a pile of bodies, swarming with flies, smelling of the sweet yet acrid stench of death could be a very real threat.

Definitely if they come up with some loopy theories, let them run with them. Do not, ever, try to set them straight. :smallwink:

Oh, one of them PLANS on trying to figure it out. He has a lot of healing skills, but nothing like Lab Work. I can't WAIT to figure out what they think it is.

Jack of Spades
2012-07-01, 07:32 AM
That hospital will probably be pretty dark (power being out), and by the time they get from point A to point B through all the built up detritus and left-over chaos they will probably be nearly out of daylight, as well as out of flashlight batteries. Darkness makes an amazing complication, especially since zombies don't care about it.

Long term, though, making sure no-one gets sick from conventional diseases or infections will be a problem. As will clean water, which is a lot harder to find and transport than food. As for the van and motorcycle, if you let them go more than a week driving around without getting gas from *somewhere,* you're doing it wrong.

Geostationary
2012-07-01, 05:27 PM
I will have to check out that MMO, could be interesting. To answer your questions, there are 3 triggers. Death. Bite. A specific drug that is only accessable though a hospital, i.e. not over the counter. The infection is, well, pathogenic in nature. So, in a way, it's airborne, but if the above triggers are not triggered, then you seem healthy like a regular person.

So, just to sate my curiosity, you're saying that it's an airborne pathogen that lies dormant in your body until you die, are bitten/similar injury, or are exposed to certain drugs? This means that thinking someone is infected and killing them ACTUALLY MAKES THEM INTO A ZOMBIE. If they players ever figure that out, have fun guilt tripping them if they ever did such a thing!:smallbiggrin:


These zombies are you standard, slow zombies, like you have described. They are 100% instinctual, so sight and sound are your biggest threats. I'm thinking there might be ways to fool them, but not 100% on that.

I'm really looking for problems more unrelated to the zombies, tbh. Things that might go wrong, things what would normally be quite easy that are suddenly very difficult.
Well, transport would be a big one. You say they have vehicles, but those are both loud, not necessarily of any use (vans don't work well on congested roads filled with the recently dead), and you need to fuel them. Finding fuel may not be hard at a given location, but extracting it is- it takes time, often in the open, to gather fuel already in a tank or in a nonfunctional pump.

Lighting at night. You need to be careful with it, else you're going to be attracting everything around you, zombie or otherwise.

Cuts and scratches. You are now in a world with little to no modern medicine. Over-the-counter drugs aren't to hard to come by but others may have already been there, whereas prescription drugs are harder to come by without going into hospitals or the like. Any sort of infection you get will be a serious concern in part because of this, but also because you're scavenging, probably have poor hygiene, and are in frequent contact with dead things. Anything that can't be treated with drugs you can find is more or less untreatable barring a miracle or incredibly risky treatments.

Your stuff- it can and will break. What will you do when it does? Some things are easily replaceable. Others aren't.

What sort of timescale do you plan on your campaign taking place over? A longer scale would mean that longer-term concerns would become relevant.

Rasman
2012-07-01, 05:39 PM
That hospital will probably be pretty dark (power being out), and by the time they get from point A to point B through all the built up detritus and left-over chaos they will probably be nearly out of daylight, as well as out of flashlight batteries. Darkness makes an amazing complication, especially since zombies don't care about it.

Long term, though, making sure no-one gets sick from conventional diseases or infections will be a problem. As will clean water, which is a lot harder to find and transport than food. As for the van and motorcycle, if you let them go more than a week driving around without getting gas from *somewhere,* you're doing it wrong.

The flashlight thing is hard. One of them has one of those "As Seen On TV" flashlights that you shake and that generates power for it. Granted, if it goes out, he has to shake it to get any light and a Zombie hears that as a dinner bell. I'm also pretty sure he's the only one, other than the NPC that will go with them, that has a flashlight, although one does have a lighter.

Gas is a much bigger issue than water, believe it or not. SEVERAL of them drew 'well' and they have a LOT of water at the moment. Gas will be their big traveling issue because the van isn't exactly high mileage. The places they've gone so far, I'm not terribly worried about keeping track of fuel at the moment simply because they are really close together, but after they really start to travel, they'll regret having the van.

What sounds like a good 'starting' time for them? I could force it to be late in the day, but not at night yet. Maybe 6pm?


So, just to sate my curiosity, you're saying that it's an airborne pathogen that lies dormant in your body until you die, are bitten/similar injury, or are exposed to certain drugs? This means that thinking someone is infected and killing them ACTUALLY MAKES THEM INTO A ZOMBIE. If they players ever figure that out, have fun guilt tripping them if they ever did such a thing!:smallbiggrin:


Well, transport would be a big one. You say they have vehicles, but those are both loud, not necessarily of any use (vans don't work well on congested roads filled with the recently dead), and you need to fuel them. Finding fuel may not be hard at a given location, but extracting it is- it takes time, often in the open, to gather fuel already in a tank or in a nonfunctional pump.

Lighting at night. You need to be careful with it, else you're going to be attracting everything around you, zombie or otherwise.

Cuts and scratches. You are now in a world with little to no modern medicine. Over-the-counter drugs aren't to hard to come by but others may have already been there, whereas prescription drugs are harder to come by without going into hospitals or the like. Any sort of infection you get will be a serious concern in part because of this, but also because you're scavenging, probably have poor hygiene, and are in frequent contact with dead things. Anything that can't be treated with drugs you can find is more or less untreatable barring a miracle or incredibly risky treatments.

Your stuff- it can and will break. What will you do when it does? Some things are easily replaceable. Others aren't.

What sort of timescale do you plan on your campaign taking place over? A longer scale would mean that longer-term concerns would become relevant.

Hmm...Timescale depends on their travel and where they go. At the moment, with all their food, they're sitting tight. But they'll regret that soon enough. This campaign could last years, in all honesty. They are thinking on that time scale because one of them went into a Lowes looking specifically for edible plants. I gave him a few tomato plants for the unique thought.

Jack of Spades
2012-07-01, 06:55 PM
The flashlight thing is hard. One of them has one of those "As Seen On TV" flashlights that you shake and that generates power for it. Granted, if it goes out, he has to shake it to get any light and a Zombie hears that as a dinner bell. I'm also pretty sure he's the only one, other than the NPC that will go with them, that has a flashlight, although one does have a lighter.
*snip*
What sounds like a good 'starting' time for them? I could force it to be late in the day, but not at night yet. Maybe 6pm?
A note: those flashlights never have very good battery capacity, and are often pretty weak when they do light up. Also, that lighter could run out of fuel pretty quickly if they aren't cautious

As for starting time, any PC's with brains will take one look at the interior of a hastily-abandoned hospital and say, "Well, time to go back to camp." Not only will the halls be choked with beds, gurneys, the occasional zombie, and a good few hasty filing cabinet barricades, but hospitals tend to have several floors, all of which will have to be traversed via stairs which are inconveniently placed far enough away from anything of value that to forage a floor would *require* clearing each of several dozen rooms for zombies. So, they'll start in the morning if they're smart, but if they bother to look for supplies it'll probably be late afternoon before they get the thing cleared out.

However, if the doctor shows his face the moment they get there, then for suspense purposes make it happen at about ten minutes before the party would already be heading back to camp for the night. It makes an interesting party moment as the smart decision is to tell the guy to hold out until morning, but the compassionate decision (as well as the one that the doctor will be pleading for, assuming they have electronic or even shouting contact) will be to storm in (probably making a lot of noise), run up the stairs (more noise), and save the doctor (a meeting that will make more noise)... Right as the sun dips into the horizon. And then, as the near-darkness fades into night-darkness, the zombies start coming from the dozens of rooms that no one took the time to check out. By the time they get back to ground floor they'll probably have killed enough zombies to make enough noise to alert every zombie for blocks around.

If they decide wait until morning, add more complications than there would have been. The doctor is, of course, fallible, and alerted more than a few zombies while he was getting the party's attention.

CET
2012-07-01, 08:33 PM
Thoughts on Hospitals:

- Have it start out as a stealth thing - how far can the PCs get before the Zs realize they are there and come for them?

- Hospitals have lots of narrow hallways and reception areas with big glass windows. Not too many good places to make a stand, so the PCs should probably try to keep on the move. The first time they start to linger, bring in Zs and give them a taste of what it looks like to get boxed in somewhere.

- A series of rooms where a small military unit made their last stand. There are still a couple of live claymores, and may a zombie or two stuck in one of the rooms. Worse, there are a couple of badly wounded soldiers still in the middle of it. Whether they would be willing to help the PCs, or are going to shoot anything that moves is something you can play by ear. But, if the PCs get in there and don't get killed, there are a couple of ARs (but not much ammo) and maybe a grenade or two in it for them.

- Does the hospital have a drop ceiling? Can the PCs use that to get over walls in a pinch? (or - can they do most of their travel up there?). It's probably worth coming up with a way for zombies to get there as well.

- Loot of opportunity. Hospitals have drugs/painkillers, antibiotics, maybe some good med supplies for treating wounds, and things like oxygen tanks that make great explosives. All tempting things to loot.

- FWIW If I were playing a character that could pull it off, I'd look seriously at not going in at the ground floor. Alternatives that come to mind include climbing the outside, and scaling a neighboring building (provided it's less infected) and crossing over using a line of some sort. If I did have to go in, I'd probably look for an elevator that was on the first floor, go through the top of it, and take the shaft all the way to the top.

For source material, you should definitely read World War Z - same author as Zombie Survival Guide, but IMO, a much better read and more inspiring. Also, zombies are the most fun in close quarters - write up a couple of interested Z encounters that you can drop most anywhere in the hospital.

Also, for the long term, if the PCs are on the move, they *always* need water. Everyone needs about 3 liters per day for drinking, and about twice that if they want to do any sanitary cleaning or need water for cooking. Water is heavy, so packing a swimming pool's worth in the back of their van is going to be problematic. It also tends to get infected, leak, etc.

If they have access to wells . . .sooner or later they'll need to move on. Maybe there are a couple million Zs from the nearest metro area on their way.

Pokonic
2012-07-02, 01:34 AM
Well, it's recent, soo no horridly damaged buildings vi water drainage.

Well, a few senarios:

That country prison? You know, the big one that was overcrowed a while back? You saw it on the news, actualy. Well, there are two things that could have happened to it:

1. It's a zombie nest. The wire gates keep most of them tangled up in there, but it still is a giant building filled with zombies that you are going to have to go near to go were you need to be.

2. The inmates and guards have banded together. Admitly, many on both sides disliked the idea of letting either live, but now there are several hundred men operating inside a fortafied area. There generators are still working, and the local lake is still clean. Problem is, there going to try and kill you.

Also, something has been stalking the group, or at least someone thinks there is. Leave a few creepy hints for his argument.

Also, pets: people used to have them. Now, however, there are groups of dogs running around that have never been under the care of a human. Zombies might ignore them, but not there barks. Hence, a viable threat. God help the party if they stumble apon the house that used to be owned by a snake/spider owner, with the animal in question managing to breed within it. It's the Everglades all over again, exept it's in suburbia.

Floods might be interesting. Pipes need people caring for them, pools moreso. Inch-deep water is the perfect place for nasty nails and chunks of rock to be hiding to punish players who neglected to wear boots. Insects and more are probably infesting the place as well.

Also, there not the only people out there. Besides Fallout-like arses that are living in this new world to act out there sick ideas, other groups are around. Perhapes a group of nutjobs who belive there own end of the world have arrived, and they think they are going to some afterlife or another. People who have been saying something like this was going to happen for years are suddenly proven right, and now are simply sniping stray travelers off and stealing there stuff. Reminents of the local police force have banded together to set up a shelter, but it's dirty and and lacking in water, and they hardly want to see you unless you have something you could do for them.

Rasman
2012-07-02, 04:34 AM
A note: those flashlights never have very good battery capacity, and are often pretty weak when they do light up. Also, that lighter could run out of fuel pretty quickly if they aren't cautious

As for starting time, any PC's with brains will take one look at the interior of a hastily-abandoned hospital and say, "Well, time to go back to camp." Not only will the halls be choked with beds, gurneys, the occasional zombie, and a good few hasty filing cabinet barricades, but hospitals tend to have several floors, all of which will have to be traversed via stairs which are inconveniently placed far enough away from anything of value that to forage a floor would *require* clearing each of several dozen rooms for zombies. So, they'll start in the morning if they're smart, but if they bother to look for supplies it'll probably be late afternoon before they get the thing cleared out.

However, if the doctor shows his face the moment they get there, then for suspense purposes make it happen at about ten minutes before the party would already be heading back to camp for the night. It makes an interesting party moment as the smart decision is to tell the guy to hold out until morning, but the compassionate decision (as well as the one that the doctor will be pleading for, assuming they have electronic or even shouting contact) will be to storm in (probably making a lot of noise), run up the stairs (more noise), and save the doctor (a meeting that will make more noise)... Right as the sun dips into the horizon. And then, as the near-darkness fades into night-darkness, the zombies start coming from the dozens of rooms that no one took the time to check out. By the time they get back to ground floor they'll probably have killed enough zombies to make enough noise to alert every zombie for blocks around.

If they decide wait until morning, add more complications than there would have been. The doctor is, of course, fallible, and alerted more than a few zombies while he was getting the party's attention.

A few of them will be 'required' to go because of Flaws they took and they, because they are players and because as people they know there is safty in numbers, will all go because of this. They won't get a LOT of say in if they go, I suppose.

They will go simply because they believe they should since the kid won't make it past morning if they don't.


Thoughts on Hospitals:

- Have it start out as a stealth thing - how far can the PCs get before the Zs realize they are there and come for them?

- Hospitals have lots of narrow hallways and reception areas with big glass windows. Not too many good places to make a stand, so the PCs should probably try to keep on the move. The first time they start to linger, bring in Zs and give them a taste of what it looks like to get boxed in somewhere.

- A series of rooms where a small military unit made their last stand. There are still a couple of live claymores, and may a zombie or two stuck in one of the rooms. Worse, there are a couple of badly wounded soldiers still in the middle of it. Whether they would be willing to help the PCs, or are going to shoot anything that moves is something you can play by ear. But, if the PCs get in there and don't get killed, there are a couple of ARs (but not much ammo) and maybe a grenade or two in it for them.

- Does the hospital have a drop ceiling? Can the PCs use that to get over walls in a pinch? (or - can they do most of their travel up there?). It's probably worth coming up with a way for zombies to get there as well.

- Loot of opportunity. Hospitals have drugs/painkillers, antibiotics, maybe some good med supplies for treating wounds, and things like oxygen tanks that make great explosives. All tempting things to loot.

- FWIW If I were playing a character that could pull it off, I'd look seriously at not going in at the ground floor. Alternatives that come to mind include climbing the outside, and scaling a neighboring building (provided it's less infected) and crossing over using a line of some sort. If I did have to go in, I'd probably look for an elevator that was on the first floor, go through the top of it, and take the shaft all the way to the top.

For source material, you should definitely read World War Z - same author as Zombie Survival Guide, but IMO, a much better read and more inspiring. Also, zombies are the most fun in close quarters - write up a couple of interested Z encounters that you can drop most anywhere in the hospital.

Also, for the long term, if the PCs are on the move, they *always* need water. Everyone needs about 3 liters per day for drinking, and about twice that if they want to do any sanitary cleaning or need water for cooking. Water is heavy, so packing a swimming pool's worth in the back of their van is going to be problematic. It also tends to get infected, leak, etc.

If they have access to wells . . .sooner or later they'll need to move on. Maybe there are a couple million Zs from the nearest metro area on their way.

oh my...that's quite the list...I like the "Last Stand" scenerio and I might have them croak once they get them safe, so they can witness someone turn

There is no neighboring building for this place, our Hospital is pretty much standing in its own little space and no real tall buildings anywhere in town other than it. I'm only making them go in from the first floor because of cinematics, mostly.


Well, it's recent, soo no horridly damaged buildings vi water drainage.

Well, a few senarios:

That country prison? You know, the big one that was overcrowed a while back? You saw it on the news, actualy. Well, there are two things that could have happened to it:

1. It's a zombie nest. The wire gates keep most of them tangled up in there, but it still is a giant building filled with zombies that you are going to have to go near to go were you need to be.

2. The inmates and guards have banded together. Admitly, many on both sides disliked the idea of letting either live, but now there are several hundred men operating inside a fortafied area. There generators are still working, and the local lake is still clean. Problem is, there going to try and kill you.

Also, something has been stalking the group, or at least someone thinks there is. Leave a few creepy hints for his argument.

Also, pets: people used to have them. Now, however, there are groups of dogs running around that have never been under the care of a human. Zombies might ignore them, but not there barks. Hence, a viable threat. God help the party if they stumble apon the house that used to be owned by a snake/spider owner, with the animal in question managing to breed within it. It's the Everglades all over again, exept it's in suburbia.

Floods might be interesting. Pipes need people caring for them, pools moreso. Inch-deep water is the perfect place for nasty nails and chunks of rock to be hiding to punish players who neglected to wear boots. Insects and more are probably infesting the place as well.

Also, there not the only people out there. Besides Fallout-like arses that are living in this new world to act out there sick ideas, other groups are around. Perhapes a group of nutjobs who belive there own end of the world have arrived, and they think they are going to some afterlife or another. People who have been saying something like this was going to happen for years are suddenly proven right, and now are simply sniping stray travelers off and stealing there stuff. Reminents of the local police force have banded together to set up a shelter, but it's dirty and and lacking in water, and they hardly want to see you unless you have something you could do for them.

Funny that you mention pets. They've already ran into a pack of wild dogs, killed two, but they were hungry and 'out free' from their homes.

I might use the prison thing, but I'm not sure they'd go too near one. I'll have to research that, though. Again, The Walking Dead did it first, I'm afraid.

I have been thinking about there being 'someone' stalking them actually. Probably will be an NPC that they've already run into and I think I know the guy, since he's a little crazy anyway AND a cannabal.

Jack of Spades
2012-07-02, 04:55 PM
To add another long-term problem (and one that I really should have thought of sooner, being a Coloradoan), in the dry season any of the prairie parts of the world will start to encounter wildfires. This can be a good way to make your characters move just when they've finally gotten settled down 'for good.' Even if the biome isn't appropriate for something like that, there's always some kind of natural disaster to use as a motivator: hurricanes, blizzards, plain old drought, floods, or even volcanic activity can get a complacent party off of their feet even if the immediate zombie threat has been dealt with (for now).

In the extremely long term, the next generation (not that many PC's end up taking part in that kind of thing anyhow) will have major immune deficiencies, given that most first-world families rely on a battery of early immunizations to deal with things like smallpox, polio, chickenpox (nowadays at least), and other potentially deadly diseases. In the shorter term, stay on the lookout for reasons to give NPC's tetanus as the world begins to rust over and everyone's booster shots start to wear off.

Geostationary
2012-07-02, 08:14 PM
In the extremely long term, the next generation (not that many PC's end up taking part in that kind of thing anyhow) will have major immune deficiencies, given that most first-world families rely on a battery of early immunizations to deal with things like smallpox, polio, chickenpox (nowadays at least), and other potentially deadly diseases. In the shorter term, stay on the lookout for reasons to give NPC's tetanus as the world begins to rust over and everyone's booster shots start to wear off.

Actually, this isn't necessarily a problem, as population density and travel capabilities play huge roles in many of these diseases. In the case of chickenpox, you're for the most part fine so long as you don't get it as an adult; it's relatively harmless in children. People also don't regularly get smallpox vaccines, as it's in all of two labs in the world. When these disease do show up, they may be more of a problem though. Hepatitis would probably be a big concern, what with all the dead zombie blood going around.

Rasman
2012-07-03, 12:46 AM
Fire is going to happen. People never think about how important their emergency services are until they don't have them and the area they are in is fairly forested.

Chicken Pox is actually a possibility since they DO have kids with them, so I will have to keep that in mind.

Krazzman
2012-07-03, 03:47 AM
What stuns me is... how are you explaining the doctor's survival? Did he scavenged enough food and water to live there? Again if he can go in and out with a trick... how are your PC's to find this one out? Additionally how can the Zed's not find this out?
(Gunshop from Dawn of the Dead [the one where they fortified themselves in the mall])
Have you seen the Happening? The scene where the kids throw insults at the small cabin... that's about the friendliest welcoming your PC's might get. Cause you can't tell loon from sane these days...and if the ones are friendly to your PC's odds are big the friendly ones are the loons...
Additionally ever slept next to a kid with nightmares? I mean, kids...walking corpses, moaning, tearing flesh from the bones of the living, naked people and content inappropiate to children will make for nice dreams...

Hope this helps.

Rasman
2012-07-03, 06:01 AM
What stuns me is... how are you explaining the doctor's survival? Did he scavenged enough food and water to live there? Again if he can go in and out with a trick... how are your PC's to find this one out? Additionally how can the Zed's not find this out?
(Gunshop from Dawn of the Dead [the one where they fortified themselves in the mall])
Have you seen the Happening? The scene where the kids throw insults at the small cabin... that's about the friendliest welcoming your PC's might get. Cause you can't tell loon from sane these days...and if the ones are friendly to your PC's odds are big the friendly ones are the loons...
Additionally ever slept next to a kid with nightmares? I mean, kids...walking corpses, moaning, tearing flesh from the bones of the living, naked people and content inappropiate to children will make for nice dreams...

Hope this helps.

Oh, the Doc had help. As they head towards the top they'll run into what's left of the security guy that saved him. I haven't decided if I'm going to let him have a radio or walkie-talkie or not, yet, though.

Talesin
2012-07-03, 06:37 AM
The biggest problem I had running a similar campaign, though in 3.5 D&D, was to actually get my players in the right frame of mind with the zombies. At the start the zombies, which weren't your traditional D&D zombies, killed the level 1 cleric outright with ease as he made some stupid decisions and I couldn't not have them punish him for it.

I found that they were then far far too scared of them to attempt anything that wasn't intrinsically safe for them. Maybe I needed to punish them harder on the resources so they had to go and do things rather than casting the 2 hide from undead spells per day and then hiding until they could unite the 4 man party the day after.

hamlet
2012-07-03, 09:30 AM
Always been my belief that the most dangerous thing in yer "standard" Romero type zombie apocalypse is not the zombies, not really other survivors (though they are quite dangerous in their own right), but the stupidity of your own group. Watch the holy three movies, Night, Dawn, and Day, the originals (though the remakes ain't bad either).

One of the major points of those movies is that, when you get down to brass tacks, the zombies arent' all that dangerous if you keep your head screwed on straight. They're slow, stupid, and relatively easily killed if you know what to do and get a little practice in. A crowbar can be your best friend.

However, at some point, somewhere along the line, somebody WILL do something stupid. Leave a door unlocked. Forget to keep watch over his shoulder or just blindly turn a corner. Or go chasing off to "rescue" a friend that is, effectively, dead anyway. SOMETHING will be done incorrectly.

And it is your job as the DM in this situation, in order to maintain the style of the theme, to exploit it ruthlessly. If they forget to close a door behind them, Zack will be going through it fairly quickly. If they do shut and lock them behind them, then they'll have to spend precious seconds unlocking it before they can flee through it. If they make loud noises, Zack will drop by to investigate. That van of theirs is prime zombie bait: noise, movement, every time they take it out they should attract a swarm of the things. The bike is even worse.

Once Zack figures out where there hiding place is, they will start to show up in ever increasing numbers. First 1, then 20, then 100, then a thousand, then a million . . . They might feel safe for a while, but if they don't leave and move on relatively quickly, they will find that they are literally unable to plow through the horde of ambulatory necrotic flesh. Even a good strong van engine won't be able to do that. Heck, even a tank would get clogged up fairly quickly. A reinforced bulldozer, maybe, but see above about attracting swarms.

That should be one of your themes and constant refrains. Zack can wait. And will. Forever. The survivors cannot.

Other possibilities, if you watch the original movies, you'll remember about the safe places they were sending people . . . you know, the ones with hundreds or even thousands of folks before they understood how the infection was spread . . . we call those pre-made hordes for you to have fun with. If they have a radio, maybe they hear from a survivor at a nearby camp who claims he's got children with him, locked in a single room in the center of this camp and he's begging for help. And he won't stop begging as long as his radio is capable of transmitting. If the PC's switch frequencies, he'll eventually find theirs again and keep on begging.

A military unit comes into town operating on the last set of orders it received, which is to evacuate people out of their homes no matter how safe and secure they may seem (again, watch those movies!) and show up and insist that the PC survivors come with them immediately, incidentally attracting a horde of Zack to their front door.

Perhaps somebody thinks of going through the suspiciously large sewer system, or drainage system (some cities actually have full sets of tunnels underground) to get around without attracting attention. Except that an earlier set of survivors had that idea, and now the tunnells are infested with lots and lots of Zack.

That lovely safehouse they built, which seems nice right now . . . even a reinforced door will eventually give way under the weight of enough zombies. Hell, enough of them could, probably, eventually push a house over entirely.

And of course, the classic, another survivor or group of them shows up and demands to be let in. How can you tell if one or more of them are infected or not? Can you trust them? Are they just out to kill you and yours and take your stuff? Or do they really just need help?

SoC175
2012-07-03, 03:50 PM
That should be one of your themes and constant refrains. Zack can wait. And will. Forever. The survivors cannot. But can they? Or is it a matter to sit out a year or two until the vast majority are rotted into slimy pools of goo?

A military unit comes into town operating on the last set of orders it received, which is to evacuate people out of their homes no matter how safe and secure they may seem (again, watch those movies!) and show up and insist that the PC survivors come with them immediately, incidentally attracting a horde of Zack to their front door. That's a good one.

Pokonic
2012-07-04, 03:18 PM
But can they? Or is it a matter to sit out a year or two until the vast majority are rotted into slimy pools of goo?
.

Perhapes if was in a rainy area. If not, there walking leather.

Also, note that one person's idea of safe does not corralate thruout a group. For instance, give them the option to go into a old office building. After a few moments of scavanging, they might find a friendly dog. Some in the group might not want to keep it along, but others might want the extra set of fangs running around.

Also, note that others might have set up some "last stand" senarios without consideration for others running it. For instance, a entire hallway scorched and burnt, or a few dead bodies with some high explosives hidden near them, ect.

Rasman
2012-07-05, 11:50 PM
The biggest problem I had running a similar campaign, though in 3.5 D&D, was to actually get my players in the right frame of mind with the zombies. At the start the zombies, which weren't your traditional D&D zombies, killed the level 1 cleric outright with ease as he made some stupid decisions and I couldn't not have them punish him for it.

I found that they were then far far too scared of them to attempt anything that wasn't intrinsically safe for them. Maybe I needed to punish them harder on the resources so they had to go and do things rather than casting the 2 hide from undead spells per day and then hiding until they could unite the 4 man party the day after.

They don't hold any fear yet. They just saved a woman they found in the Mental Health Ward that they learned that she had been waiting to be transferred to a Facility. They told the Dr. they saved/found. He was not pleased because she's 'dangerous' in his words.


Always been my belief that the most dangerous thing in yer "standard" Romero type zombie apocalypse is not the zombies, not really other survivors (though they are quite dangerous in their own right), but the stupidity of your own group. Watch the holy three movies, Night, Dawn, and Day, the originals (though the remakes ain't bad either).

One of the major points of those movies is that, when you get down to brass tacks, the zombies arent' all that dangerous if you keep your head screwed on straight. They're slow, stupid, and relatively easily killed if you know what to do and get a little practice in. A crowbar can be your best friend.

However, at some point, somewhere along the line, somebody WILL do something stupid. Leave a door unlocked. Forget to keep watch over his shoulder or just blindly turn a corner. Or go chasing off to "rescue" a friend that is, effectively, dead anyway. SOMETHING will be done incorrectly.

And it is your job as the DM in this situation, in order to maintain the style of the theme, to exploit it ruthlessly. If they forget to close a door behind them, Zack will be going through it fairly quickly. If they do shut and lock them behind them, then they'll have to spend precious seconds unlocking it before they can flee through it. If they make loud noises, Zack will drop by to investigate. That van of theirs is prime zombie bait: noise, movement, every time they take it out they should attract a swarm of the things. The bike is even worse.

Once Zack figures out where there hiding place is, they will start to show up in ever increasing numbers. First 1, then 20, then 100, then a thousand, then a million . . . They might feel safe for a while, but if they don't leave and move on relatively quickly, they will find that they are literally unable to plow through the horde of ambulatory necrotic flesh. Even a good strong van engine won't be able to do that. Heck, even a tank would get clogged up fairly quickly. A reinforced bulldozer, maybe, but see above about attracting swarms.

That should be one of your themes and constant refrains. Zack can wait. And will. Forever. The survivors cannot.

Other possibilities, if you watch the original movies, you'll remember about the safe places they were sending people . . . you know, the ones with hundreds or even thousands of folks before they understood how the infection was spread . . . we call those pre-made hordes for you to have fun with. If they have a radio, maybe they hear from a survivor at a nearby camp who claims he's got children with him, locked in a single room in the center of this camp and he's begging for help. And he won't stop begging as long as his radio is capable of transmitting. If the PC's switch frequencies, he'll eventually find theirs again and keep on begging.

A military unit comes into town operating on the last set of orders it received, which is to evacuate people out of their homes no matter how safe and secure they may seem (again, watch those movies!) and show up and insist that the PC survivors come with them immediately, incidentally attracting a horde of Zack to their front door.

Perhaps somebody thinks of going through the suspiciously large sewer system, or drainage system (some cities actually have full sets of tunnels underground) to get around without attracting attention. Except that an earlier set of survivors had that idea, and now the tunnells are infested with lots and lots of Zack.

That lovely safehouse they built, which seems nice right now . . . even a reinforced door will eventually give way under the weight of enough zombies. Hell, enough of them could, probably, eventually push a house over entirely.

And of course, the classic, another survivor or group of them shows up and demands to be let in. How can you tell if one or more of them are infected or not? Can you trust them? Are they just out to kill you and yours and take your stuff? Or do they really just need help?

I did tell them that I'm not just any GM. I will give them a grace period to get used to the game and after that, they are fair game. I pulled a few punches when I ran the other night because they did some stuff that should have killed one of them and I gave them the NPC cop to baby sit them, which they needed. But that was partly my fault because I threw too many zombies at them all at once.

Dear God, I love the 'guy trapped in a house with kids' idea. That's gold and they are the type that would try to save him.

This. I'm writing down and saving for, heck, maybe the next session.


Perhapes if was in a rainy area. If not, there walking leather.

Also, note that one person's idea of safe does not corralate thruout a group. For instance, give them the option to go into a old office building. After a few moments of scavanging, they might find a friendly dog. Some in the group might not want to keep it along, but others might want the extra set of fangs running around.

Also, note that others might have set up some "last stand" senarios without consideration for others running it. For instance, a entire hallway scorched and burnt, or a few dead bodies with some high explosives hidden near them, ect.

I really, really, really like the Last Stand scenario. I thought of something similar for the hospital, but with how much time everything I had prepared took, I didn't even get to get near it.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out how 'unsafe' this Mental Health Patient is going to be. She's a real wild card depending on how careful they are.

Pokonic
2012-07-06, 12:45 AM
I really, really, really like the Last Stand scenario. I thought of something similar for the hospital, but with how much time everything I had prepared took, I didn't even get to get near it.


How about this: they are walking down a street strangly clear of zombies, and the streets seem strangly calm. Then, of course,the unthinkable happens: something goes off underground in the sewer systems, and now the first have to survive the effective distruction of the path they were planning on, but have to get through the rubble (if they all make the checks to hear/react to the massive blast) without, say, stepping on a half-distroyed zombie.

Rasman
2012-07-06, 08:41 AM
How about this: they are walking down a street strangly clear of zombies, and the streets seem strangly calm. Then, of course,the unthinkable happens: something goes off underground in the sewer systems, and now the first have to survive the effective distruction of the path they were planning on, but have to get through the rubble (if they all make the checks to hear/react to the massive blast) without, say, stepping on a half-distroyed zombie.

I might have to save that one for a bit later. I'm going to have to work out how I'm going to get them out of town right now. I think my first two sessions have been good 'training wheels' sessions to give them an idea of how the system works and how I'm going to run the game. But, now, I need to force them out. They want revenge and to get their supplies back, but I'm going to have to run them dry.

Grelna the Blue
2012-07-06, 02:48 PM
Do any of the PCs or their loved ones use corrective lenses to see? If so, what happens if they break? Or fall off in the middle of a mob of zombies? Or in the case of disposable contacts, run out? Are there any medications they depend upon (asthmatic inhalers, etc)?

Speaking of "disposable", depending on exactly how gritty the game is you could have a session involving them desperate enough to make a toilet paper/diaper/feminine hygiene supply run after they run out.

Are the lights and power still on? If not, do they have enough candles, flashlight batteries, and/or lamp oil? What about the water supply? Does it still come from the faucet, or are they going to have to brave a big box store for a supply (the supermarkets would have run out almost immediately)?

How about ammo problems? Or gas? If they can still drive through the streets, where are they getting the fuel (esp. if the power grid is down, which would deactivate the pumps)?

Stuff like that.

eggs
2012-07-06, 06:28 PM
Zombies make very bad antagonists; people make very good ones.

Once the zombie premise has been introduced and a couple scenarios and encounters have been run, the players are probably going to have a pretty good idea of how to stay safe and survive; and the zombies, as traditionally modeled in the fiction, aren't exactly motivated or intelligent enemies. They basically turn into a background/environmental hazard.

It's the other survivors who are both capable of doing crazy things, changing the nature of the game, shaking the fiction up, and motivated to do so - the game fiction is all about dwindling resources; even if that accounting's not the most fun thing for the players to track, it's an easy springboard for all sorts of engaging plot hooks when it's thrown onto the NPCs.

So after the first couple sessions are over, the zombies have lost their shiny newness in the story and the players have started getting their survival plans in order, I'd introduce some sort of living villains. Just rattling off a few ideas:

Simple marauders who ride into town shooting guns and looting other survivors' resources
Insidious survivalists who play other survivors into undoing themselves before scavenging their loot/remains
Tyrannical "philanthropists" who exploit survivors under the guise of protection
Aspiring do-gooders who genuinely aim to solve the zombie problem, but to do it at too great of a price.

Rasman
2012-07-06, 11:55 PM
Do any of the PCs or their loved ones use corrective lenses to see? If so, what happens if they break? Or fall off in the middle of a mob of zombies? Or in the case of disposable contacts, run out? Are there any medications they depend upon (asthmatic inhalers, etc)?

Speaking of "disposable", depending on exactly how gritty the game is you could have a session involving them desperate enough to make a toilet paper/diaper/feminine hygiene supply run after they run out.

Are the lights and power still on? If not, do they have enough candles, flashlight batteries, and/or lamp oil? What about the water supply? Does it still come from the faucet, or are they going to have to brave a big box store for a supply (the supermarkets would have run out almost immediately)?

How about ammo problems? Or gas? If they can still drive through the streets, where are they getting the fuel (esp. if the power grid is down, which would deactivate the pumps)?

Stuff like that.

hmm...one of them has reading glasses, so that doesn't really count...I might have one that I can use that against though...I'll have to remember the glasses though...

power is out, water is out but they actually have a large personal supply, but it won't last for forever, light for one of them isn't an issue (Kinetic Flashlight) but that won't work forever, Ammo is a little bit of an issues but they haven't really needed a lot yet, the vehicles they found were topped off and they have some cans of fuel as part of their starting supplies, so they'll be OK for a little while


Zombies make very bad antagonists; people make very good ones.

Once the zombie premise has been introduced and a couple scenarios and encounters have been run, the players are probably going to have a pretty good idea of how to stay safe and survive; and the zombies, as traditionally modeled in the fiction, aren't exactly motivated or intelligent enemies. They basically turn into a background/environmental hazard.

It's the other survivors who are both capable of doing crazy things, changing the nature of the game, shaking the fiction up, and motivated to do so - the game fiction is all about dwindling resources; even if that accounting's not the most fun thing for the players to track, it's an easy springboard for all sorts of engaging plot hooks when it's thrown onto the NPCs.

So after the first couple sessions are over, the zombies have lost their shiny newness in the story and the players have started getting their survival plans in order, I'd introduce some sort of living villains. Just rattling off a few ideas:

Simple marauders who ride into town shooting guns and looting other survivors' resources
Insidious survivalists who play other survivors into undoing themselves before scavenging their loot/remains
Tyrannical "philanthropists" who exploit survivors under the guise of protection
Aspiring do-gooders who genuinely aim to solve the zombie problem, but to do it at too great of a price.


oh, I agree entirely. Zombies are merely something you have to avoid or work though. If you can do that, you'll be fine.

When I started examining this game, I leaped at the idea because of "Zombies! This is going to be some 'Shawn of the Dead' badassness!" with the idea of lots of hack and slash and such. After reading though the module this game is based on, it became very apparent that Zombies are not the issue. People are.

I am considering the Tyrannical Philanthropist, actually, with a side of Aspiring Do-Gooder that wants to solve the zombie problem, but he needs experiment subjects, live ones.