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eggs
2012-07-01, 06:31 PM
Temporary states and leveling always lead to weird rules situations, but this one comes up often enough that I'm looking for some outside opinions (or rules citations, if they exist):

My question in a general sense is: Do skill ranks "remember" the character's state when they were purchased?

Or, to ground this in a concrete example:
A level 3 Cleric with the Pact domain has invested 5 skill points in Intimidate (a class skill through Pact) and 2 skill points in Bluff (cross-classed), resulting in 5 ranks in Intimidate and 1 rank in Bluff.
The Cleric casts Substitute Domain, temporarily replacing Pact with Trickery. This removes Intimidate from the Cleric's class skills and adds Bluff.
The Cleric hits level 4 and invests 2 skill points in Intimidate and 4 skill points in Bluff.
While Substitute Domain is in effect, what are the Cleric's respective ranks in Bluff and Intimidate? Is there a reason they would change when Substitute Domain wears off?

Flickerdart
2012-07-01, 06:44 PM
The Cleric can't invest anything into Intimidate, because the cap for a cross-class skill at 4th level is 4, and he already has 5 ranks in it. He would be investing Bluff ranks at full, though, and thus have 5 ranks in Bluff.

HunterOfJello
2012-07-01, 07:32 PM
This sounds like it would be related to what exactly happens when someone levels up. I'm sure someone on these boards has some more specific information and quotes on that topic than I do.

At the very least, the spell would need to have been constantly in effect from the start of the level to the end of it. That's made clear by the way characters gain levels in the Experience and Levels section of the PHB.

There might be an entry somewhere that says that spells you have on you don't change anything in relation to gaining levels. However, I'm not sure where it says that, if it does.

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Assuming your method does work, the Cleric would be able to put ranks into Intimidate up to the maximum of 7 ranks at level 4 because they had that as a class skill for Cleric levels 1, 2, and 3. However, increasing the number of ranks in it would cost 2 skill points per rank because it is a cross-class skill. Ranks in the new class skill would cost 1 skill point per skill rank and would be available to a maximum of 7 ranks.


this is stated in the multiclassing section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm) of the SRD:


Skills

If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)

If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill.



Skills Summary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/skillsSummary.htm)

If you buy a class skill, your character gets 1 rank (equal to a +1 bonus on checks with that skill) for each skill point. If you buy other classes’ skills (cross-class skills), you get ½ rank per skill point.

Your maximum rank in a class skill is your character level + 3.

Your maximum rank in a cross-class skill is one-half of this number (do not round up or down).


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Note: If you start time traveling, losing levels, or using retraining/rebuilding rules then the answers to these questions are quite different.

whibla
2012-07-01, 07:32 PM
Indeed, ranks in a skill never normally change once gained. When you go up a level you can put ranks in any skill that is a class skill for the class you levelled up in at a 1 for 1 basis to a maximum of character level +3, and you can put ranks in any skill the is not a class skill for the class you levelled up in at a 2 for 1 basis to a maximum of half your character level +3. The class skills are determined at the point you gain the level.