[3.5] STR, CON and/or WIS based classes?

[GreenSerpent]

Hi all,

To put it simply, a problem has come up. I need to find a good class for a Dragonborn of Bahamut Mongrelfolk. Level 6, 36 point buy. For those of you who don't know, that means his stat adjustments will be -2 DEX, +6 CON, -2 INT, -4 CHA. Obviously any class he'd be good at will be a STR/CON/WIS based one.

I'd prefer to keep his CON high, and if possible I'd like him to be a reasonably decent skillmonkey. I was thinking Factotum, but that INT penalty hurts it a fair bit. Cleric fits as well, as he's a worshipper of Bahamut, but I've been playing a lot of Clerics and Druids recently and I'd like to try something else. Any suggestions? (I think most/all book sources are allowed)

EDIT: Also, he's Lawful Good, and the race is non-negotiable. He is allowed to take human-only feats though.

[Gwendol]

Ranger would be nice. That would give you skills, while still making use of the fighting abilities. The DEX penalty will hurt your ranged attacks, but can be mitigated by BAB and stealth. Paladin and knight are out of the question due to the CHA penalty.
Actually, make it ranger, take the ranged weapon combat route and pick the axe thrower feat (Faerun-regional, but generic enough) to get your STR to thrown weapon attack rolls. One of your feats should probably be far shot in order to extend the range, and carry a bow or sling in reserve. Rangers get some nice spells if the Spell Compendium is in play.

[Psyren]

Totemist! Soulmelds make you more than a decent skillmonkey, he'll be a terror in combat too, and no alignment restriction. The flavor is a great fit too.

[Pilo]

Totemist is a solid possibility, as soulmelds will give you bonus to skills and other fun things.

[Jarian]

Dragonfire Adept, if you don't go the Totemist route. Focus on 24 hour buffs with your invocations and the Charisma penalty won't bother you a bit. The Dragonborn breath weapon will qualify you to take metabreath feats, giving you more options than "I breathe again" in combat.

[HunterColt22]

If magic of incarnum is allowed, I think most of those powers run off of Con for your essentia. Also a good idea for you might in fact be Dragonfire adept. 4+int to skill points. While some of their invocations run off of Cha, alot of them are self buffs such as fell flight, water breathing, invisibility and spider climb just to name a few. Also their breath weapon runs off of, Con, perfect for you character, and you can grab some great feats from the draconomicon and dragon magic to enhance it to the point of being stupid just because of your high con score. Also it is considered to be a skill monkey just to the dumb number of skills it gets for some odd reason, though if you are going more rogue based area you will need a multi class to get trapfinding and that whole stick since they dont get it. If you just want skills up the butt though, they got that.

[Khedrac]

At work so not got books with me...

I thought the Dragonborn stat modifiers replaced the base race ones? This makes the race very different - especially as it is a 0LA race not a template. It would lead to breakign virtually anything - take a nice high LA race for its stats, then go Dragonborn to eliminate the LA...

[Jarian]

Dragonborn aren't OGL, so copying the exact mechanics wouldn't be kosher, but suffice it to say that they retain the original race's level adjustment and add +2 Con/-2 Dex to the racial ability modifiers, while losing almost everything else.

[Flickerdart]

If you can finagle yourself a poison attack, their DC is almost always CON based, so that's a thing.

[Venusaur]

Seconding DFA. Fits with the Bahamut worshiping fluff and has some cool tricks. Definitely an underrated class.

[Psyren]

Totemist is a solid possibility, as soulmelds will give you bonus to skills and other fun things.

Most importantly, soulmelds let you use several skills untrained. And essentia (unlike skill points) are not tied to Intelligence, meaning his Int penalty won't hurt as much.


If you can finagle yourself a poison attack, their DC is almost always CON based, so that's a thing.

Totemist covers that too (Wormtail Belt/Phase Cloak). With such a massive Con increase, enemies will be hurting.

[Khedrac]

Dragonborn aren't OGL, so copying the exact mechanics wouldn't be kosher, but suffice it to say that they retain the original race's level adjustment and add +2 Con/-2 Dex to the racial ability modifiers, while losing almost everything else.
Thank-you. That makes them all the more interesting, though a dragonborn elf would be odd with no stat modifiers left...

[Malak'ai]

Thank-you. That makes them all the more interesting, though a dragonborn elf would be odd with no stat modifiers left...

Short pointy eared Human without the extra skill points and feat?

[Jarian]

Short pointy eared Human without the extra skill points and feat?

[...]that breathes fire*.

[Malak'ai]

[...]that breathes fire*.

But doesn't actually look like either an Elf or a Human but more like a giant Kobold abusing steriods**

Also, remind me never to let the Dragonborn character eat an extreamly spicy chillie...

[Essence_of_War]

Dragonfire Adept and Totemist/Incarnate are fantastic choices as others have mentioned.

Psychic Warrior or Ardent could work also. Both manifest off of wisdom, everyone wants Con, and if you want to hit things with psywar you can have the str also. Neither are terribly good skill monkeys though...

[GreenSerpent]

Decided on DFA. Figured it'd fit thematically, practically, and with the Power Surge feat he'd qualify for Metabreath feats.

Now I have one problem. Vow of Poverty or not?

[Essence_of_War]

The only classes that (IMHO) play reasonably well with VoP are Incarnum classes because they have such a range of magic item-like effects they can make for themselves. Moreover, you don't have to worry about your chakra binds interfering w/ your magic items since all VoP stuff is slotless.

There are lots of neat magic items DFA can use (do they get UMD?) I'd say no VoP.

[GreenSerpent]

*hmms and then realises they get UMD as a class skill*
...
...
...
*facedesks*

[Essence_of_War]

Well you have your answer :smallbiggrin:

[Khedrac]

When BoED was released VoP was great - there was not a huge variety of magic items so the ones most people gave up were those that granted stat bonuses which VoP replaces.

Now... things are different. There are loads of really useful magic items for this and that, and, if the DM allows the rules from MIC, they can have the stat boosts enchanted on to them.
So if your campaign will grant easy access to magic items - specifically to allow you to choose the ones you want - then it's a "no" to VoP
If you can get your items upgraded (eg dex added to gloves of storing) then it is a big "NO".
If magic item shops are rare, so you have to take what drops, then it depends. If the DM is likely to give you lots of stuff or stuff tailored to the party then it probably remains "no" to VoP. If the magicx items are likely to be just what the NPCs need and you don't expect them to be useful to you - then VoP becomes more viable.
Having UMD as a class skill - if you can afford the skill points then say "no" to VoP, if you can't then it could still be worth it.

[Tvtyrant]

A Binder can coat themselves in symbiotes without penalty using their stat healing bind, so you could make a case for a VoP Binder that gets things like mindblank from the creepy things it stuffs in its body.

[Flickerdart]

Now I have one problem. Vow of Poverty or not?
Classes that aren't severely nerfed by VoP:
Wizards: Eidetic Spellcaster + Eschew Materials means you don't have that pesky book or fancy ink to worry about. Can't scribe additional spells beyond the ones you normally get, or use expensive material components, but c'est la vie. You can trade away Scribe Scroll, too, because you won't be doing any crafting.
Druids: Your foci are all plants that cost nothing, and you spend most of your time as a fleshraker anyway.
Psions and Ardents: You don't have material components to worry about at all.
Totemists & Incarnates: Magic items just get in the way of your class abilities.

If you're not any of these people, stay the hell away from VoP.