Planning ahead: Factotum

[GutterFace]

so i have some questions. they are borderline odd, weird and possibly illegal. so i will ask and hopefully get some answers...

1) Orb of acid...when cast is it actually an orb of acid?
2) can i choose not to throw it but cast it and "hold onto it"?
3) can i cast it and put the acid in a jar?

as a factotum i am able to be smart, and crafty.

can, if have all good knowledge checks, build a simple, rudimentary; battery based on an ancient design (ie clay jar, acid, copper, electricity?)

or is this all way too much over reaching?

[AWiz_Abroad]

IF I was your DM I'd let you build a battery, but not with an orb of acid (that stuff is summoned material, and all summoned material has an expiration date [I'd say for an instanteous duration like orb, something like 4 seconds]). That being said, you can BUY a flask of acid. It's in the PHB.

However, as a DM I'm definately inclined to the rule of cool, so your mileage might vary. I'm thinking particurally if you worked a mad scientist gnome into your character build, I'd be more inclined to allow it than say a elven ranger back story.

I'm intrigued, what are you wanting to build that is electrical powered?

[GutterFace]

thanks, i figured acid flasks would be the way to go if the spell fizzled.

well i was/would/could use the battery to make light (run the current through a smaller mithril wire.

could convert it into a stored lightningbolt tazer

possible thrown splash/electricity weapon?

or convert it into a trap, ie a trip wire connected to a battery, trip+damage?

the possibilities are endless as long as i can pull it off

[AWiz_Abroad]

The problem is voltage.

Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery. Even in series, you're talking maybe 4 volts? as a DM I might let you play some tricks on folks, or even enough as a deterent system (with enough of them) on a metal fence. But using them as a thrown weapon, you'll do more damage with the acid than the electricity IMHO.

I think arclighting would be cool, or even some sort of electrical ignition for a infernal (in the perjorative sense) gnomish device. However I wouldn't in a game I was DMing allow you to do serious damage with it(abent 4 kerjillion of them hooked together, and at that point, why don't you just have a magic trap of lightning bolt.

[GutterFace]

ahh thats the name of the ancient battery thanks!

i was just considering this 'factotum battery' as a simple way to carry a stored spell that i can use for multiple things

once the battery is made cant i cast Electric Jolt or Orb of lesser Electricty into the battery to be 'stored'?

if not i can always just use this as a simple but cool lantern :)

[Oscredwin]

Using real life engineering knowledge in game has been a perennial question since at least the days of 2nd Ed (that's when I first encountered it). The usual question is "can I invent gun powder?" Kudos on working the electric angle, especially for using knowledge that predates medieval europe.

I would run it as a skill check to make the stuff. Craft(electrics) or something like that. You're a factotum, it's a class skill. Work with your DM to design the stuff, try to use alchemy items as a balance point. Make sure you agree on some unique effects that alchemy can't do by RAW.

[GutterFace]

superb! thanks!

im going to try and convince the DM as a smart man i can invent it :)

mostly i want this to be the foot in the door so i can "invent" things on the fly when we are on an adventure....something a macguyver can do.

i really want to RP this character well, and as a smart character i should be able to out think orcs....

[Tvtyrant]

Using real life engineering knowledge in game has been a perennial question since at least the days of 2nd Ed (that's when I first encountered it). The usual question is "can I invent gun powder?" Kudos on working the electric angle, especially for using knowledge that predates medieval europe.

I would run it as a skill check to make the stuff. Craft(electrics) or something like that. You're a factotum, it's a class skill. Work with your DM to design the stuff, try to use alchemy items as a balance point. Make sure you agree on some unique effects that alchemy can't do by RAW.

I use alchemy checks for stuff like this. My usual response is "can you make a DC 45 Alchemy check to invent it?" and then if they make that a DC 15 to actually produce the stuff.

[Devmaar]

I use alchemy checks for stuff like this. My usual response is "can you make a DC 45 Alchemy check to invent it?" and then if they make that a DC 15 to actually produce the stuff.

Anyone capable of making a DC 45 skill check is incapable of failing a DC 15 one

[Oscredwin]

But you need the DC15 to determine the craft time (and how much you beat it by means you can craft it faster).

[Slipperychicken]

so i have some questions. they are borderline odd, weird and possibly illegal. so i will ask and hopefully get some answers...


To cheaply get Acid, all you need is 1 rank in Craft(alchemy). 3 INT +Take 10 +1 rank= +14 modifier. That means you can auto-succeed on this check from level 1, without needing Cunning Knowledge. For higher DCs, use Cunning Knowledge (+level), Aid Another (+2) and a Masterwork Tool (50gp, +2 Circumstance).

Craft some in your backstory. Enjoy your 2/3 off most alchemical items.


EDIT: Most DMs won't let your character invent batteries, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. I wouldn't allow it, because it's metagaming, just like gunning down Baron Galafar Von Evilstein because his name is indicative of his BBEG status.

[Tvtyrant]

But you need the DC15 to determine the craft time (and how much you beat it by means you can craft it faster).

Exactly! And once you have invented it you can spread the knowledge around if you like, so lower level people can make it.

But the high DC is for inventing it really, just like if someone wanted to make an airship I would insist on a high Alchemy DC for knowing how to make something lighter than air (or spellcraft if it is magical). Inventing things is hard, and your character isn't supposed to have your real world knowledge of chemistry and physics.

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a jar of alchemical lightning. I would use that in place of acid to create a battery.

As for the acid, if I was the DM I would allow it, but treat it as the holy water spell and make the flask cost the 3 gp to cover the 1/3rd the cost of the alchemical item. Basically making an acid flask with magic.

[Khedrac]

Warning - using real-world physics in a fantasy game can seriously damage your character.

I.e. discuss this with your DM out of game before you try in game.

If you start using real-world physics to do something the DM does not have in his game (like batteries to store electricity) then you run the risk of real-world physics spreading. Why is this a risk? - well the roc that was passing overhead can no longer fly and just plummeted to crash on top of you - you are dead and resurrection magic no longer works either...

If you are underground it was a real shame that the cavern roof was held up either directly by magic or by a layer of adamantium or other supernaturally tough material somewhere above - this just failed, need we say "strawberry jam sandwich"?

Now those responses are extreme, but if you use real physics to defeat the BBEG the DM spent months working on his reaction may well be extreme. Use it to defect a minor villain and you should be OK - until you discover what the BBEG did with your discoveries.

And as to the original questions:
1: yes
2: no
3: yes - but apply the damage to the jar, even if the jar survives (it probably won't) the acid does not. You will have more luck with Acid Arrow - but the acid will still go fairly quickly.

[Devmaar]

But you need the DC15 to determine the craft time (and how much you beat it by means you can craft it faster).

Right. Forgot that. :smallredface:


Exactly! And once you have invented it you can spread the knowledge around if you like, so lower level people can make it.

Good point

[Rubik]

IF I was your DM I'd let you build a battery, but not with an orb of acid (that stuff is summoned material, and all summoned material has an expiration date [I'd say for an instanteous duration like orb, something like 4 seconds]). That being said, you can BUY a flask of acid. It's in the PHB. The duration is instantaneous, and since it's a creation effect that means that it's forever.

And THAT means it's reusable. Forever. Cast it once and suddenly you have a ball that deals damage on a ranged touch attack. Kind of like dodgeball, only you die if you're hit.

[Slipperychicken]

The duration is instantaneous, and since it's a creation effect that means that it's forever.

And THAT means it's reusable. Forever. Cast it once and suddenly you have a ball that deals damage on a ranged touch attack. Kind of like dodgeball, only you die if you're hit.

It's also splattered all over the poor bugger you hit with it. Good luck squeezing the acid out of his clothes.

[Rubik]

It's also splattered all over the poor bugger you hit with it. Good luck squeezing the acid out of his clothes.It's still ball-shaped, far as I know. If it does splatter then you can always collect it in jars on your off-days and spend all your extra spell slots on it.

Though I guess there's always the sonic-ball. Or force, since there's no way for 'force' to splash.

[Slipperychicken]

It's still ball-shaped, far as I know. If it does splatter then you can always collect it in jars on your off-days and spend all your extra spell slots on it.

Though I guess there's always the sonic-ball. Or force, since there's no way for 'force' to splash.

I'm sure there's some creative use for unbreakable blue balls of force that deal a few d6s when they hit someone. Maybe you could use them as bullets. It would end up looking like one of those video games where bullets are giant blue balls. Mass Produce them with an auto-resetting trap of Orb of Force.

Gun/Cannon + Orbs of Force = free 10d6 Force damage per hit.

That one gun which fires three barrels at once + Orb of Force = 30d6 Force + (Gun damage)

Rapid-fire + Orbs of Force = Victory.

[Rubik]

A force-orb trap coupled with a Telekinesis gun?

[Slipperychicken]

A force-orb trap coupled with a Telekinesis gun?

That gets us 9 Orbs/round fired with a range of 90ft. We can do better...

[Tvtyrant]

On the vein, I believe you can use Snatch Arrow to catch orbs. Have your monk friend catch them one at a time and put them in a basket, and then toss them in combat. This actually works with all of the orbs BTW, not just force.

Also, you can use metamagic to make the orbs do tremendous damage and then toss a lot of them a turn for victory. Best practices is to have a ghost friend throw 15 of them a turn I believe.