[Pathfinder] Best way to build a sumo?

[GenPol]

I have a player who is interested in playing a sumo wrestler in an upcoming Pathfinder game, and we were trying to figure out the best way to accomplish this.

My first thought was to just go straight Monk, but the player felt that the Monk abilities didn't quite line up with his vision of the character. Flurry of Blows didn't really feel very sumo-ish to him, and neither did the Fast Movement progression, which are two of the main features of the class.

Basically, I think the player is looking for a character that specializes in battlefield control, perhaps focusing on Grappling and Repositioning, and maybe other Combat Maneuvers. What's a good build to have this sort of PC be viable? If it helps, anything Pathfinder by Paizo is allowed, and it's a low(ish) level game, which will probably end around level 10. There willl be two other players, who are currently undecided on their characters.

While this won't be an especially high op game, the gloves will be off, and I just want the character to be able to contribute. Thanks in advance!

[Psyren]

Tetori Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori) is the wrestler archetype - show your player that.

[Waker]

I dunno if Tetori would necessarily be the best representative of Sumo. While there is grappling going on in a bout, I think that the Reposition or Bull Rush would be more appropriate to demonstrate this. The Flowing Monk archetype sounds more Tai Chi, but you could refluff it that you are forcefully moving/tripping the target.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk

Also, Flurry of Blows is fine for Sumo. Remember that using a series of palm strikes is quite common. With that in mind, a different approach focusing on the striking techniques instead relies on the Martial Artist
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist

[Crasical]

Flurry of Blows didn't really feel very sumo-ish to him

http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/images/9/99/EHondaSpecial.gif

Tell him he's a phillistine for not appreciating the classics. :smallbiggrin:

[Waker]

http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/images/9/99/EHondaSpecial.gif

Tell him he's a phillistine for not appreciating the classics. :smallbiggrin:

I knew that would be brought up eventually.

Anyways, like I said earlier, the best way to represent a sumo in D&D would be a physical character who forcefully moves his enemies around and lays on the hurt with some stiff palm strikes. The only time sumo really grapple is when they grasp the opponents mawashi in an attempt to throw them on the ground or outside of the dohyo.

[grarrrg]

FINALLY!
A use for Bloatmage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/bloatmage) levels!!


At 3rd level, a bloatmage becomes so massive that her rolls of fatty, blood-laden flesh grant her a +1 natural armor bonus. At 7th level, this bonus increases to +2 but reduces her speed by 10 feet. This penalty stacks with the penalty from the Bloatmage Initiate feat. This reduction in speed can never reduce the bloatmage’s speed below 5 feet, nor does it affect magical flying effects.

LOLZ!

[Waker]

I like your moxie grarrrg, but I dunno if its doable. You need 3rd level spells and the PrC only has half BAB progression. It would be fun to see a fat gish come out of that though.

[GenPol]

FINALLY!
A use for Bloatmage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/bloatmage) levels!!
LOLZ!

Would be hilarious, I dunno if he'd go for it though. :smallbiggrin:


http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/images/9/99/EHondaSpecial.gif
Tell him he's a phillistine for not appreciating the classics. :smallbiggrin:

Also great, I'll show him that too. :smalltongue:

Thanks a lot for the responses guys, I'll show him them when I see him next. I just looked on the SRD, and it looks like he could conceivably take both the Tetori and the Flowing Monk archetypes at the same time, as it doesn't look like they replace any of the same things (at least I don't think so, I could be wrong), although I wonder how much synergy there would be between them, seeing as they both go after Combat Maneuvers, but different ones with different styles. Thanks!

[Slipperychicken]

If you use 3.5 material, Fighter Dungeoncrasher ACF (Dungeonscape) with the Knockback feat might be a good bet. The whole idea is you slam into people, then they fly backward into walls/floors/rocks/trees, and take damage. Maybe a refluffed Half-Giant for the race (LA+1, Large size, strength/con bonuses, dex/int penalties. Dragon 313 or 319. I keep forgetting).

Obviously, a minor conversion or two would be required (replace Bull Rush with Combat Maneuver).

[GenPol]

If you use 3.5 material, Fighter Dungeoncrasher ACF (Dungeonscape) with the Knockback feat might be a good bet. The whole idea is you slam into people, then they fly backward into walls/floors/rocks/trees, and take damage. Maybe a refluffed Half-Giant for the race (LA+1, Large size, strength/con bonuses, dex/int penalties. Dragon 313 or 319. I keep forgetting).

Obviously, a minor conversion or two would be required (replace Bull Rush with Combat Maneuver).

That's a good idea, and I wouldn't mind allowing him to convert 3.5 stuff, but the player in question has historically been pretty wary of using 3.5 stuff. I'll run it by him.

That brings up another good question, what races would work well with this concept? I suppose that would depend in part on which archetype he ends up going with, assuming he's down with the monk idea, but it couldn't hurt to brainstorm.

This is for a campaign in the Dragon Empires portion of Golarion, and the most prevalent races are Hobgoblin, Human, Kitsune, Nagaji, Tengu, Samsaran, and Wayang, though anything could really find it's way there. Out of those, I would probably suggest Human or Hobgoblin, although in the end it'll probably end up being whatever he feels fits his idea the best.

[Khosan]

There's the Fighter's Brawler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/brawler) archetype. Looks pretty Sumo-esque and has a focus on unarmed strikes (technically any 'close' weapons), maneuvers and AoOs.

[grarrrg]

First go HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233029)
Its a Handbook-Handbook (or a Guide-Guide)

Then go HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12555815)
Cieyrin went through and listed what archetypes combine with each other.


I just looked on the SRD, and it looks like he could conceivably take both the Tetori and the Flowing Monk archetypes at the same time, as it doesn't look like they replace any of the same things (at least I don't think so, I could be wrong)

"Technically" not allowed (by RAW anyway)
Flowing trades away its 2nd level Bonus feat.
Tetori automatically gets Stunning Pin as it's 2nd level Bonus feat.

I don't see any problem with combining the two and just not giving him Stunning Pin.


I like your moxie grarrrg, but I dunno if its doable. You need 3rd level spells and the PrC only has half BAB progression. It would be fun to see a fat gish come out of that though.

Hmmm...

Monk(?) 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 8/Bloatmage 7
Only has 12 Bab (13 if fractional)
BUT remember it has +4 STR from Dragon Disciple.
Caster level 14
+2 CON from DD helps with the "fat"-ness.
4 levels of Monk partially offsets the Bloatmage speed penalty.


Yeah... that's pretty bad...
Anyone got better?

[Khosan]

Also, as for race, there's the Suli (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/suli). +2 Str, plus a snazzy little once a day lightning punch.

[GreenZ]

Monk of the Sacred Mountain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-sacred-mountain) Seems to fit well for this character concept, exchanging quick and agile maneuvers like evasion for more hearty features like toughness.

Improved Ki Throw (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-ki-throw-combat) seems to be the most 'Sumo' maneuver, pushing people around and knocking them over. If I were to build a sumo I would build it mostly around this feat line.

Add in Greater Trip (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-trip-combat---final) later on in order to give allies free attacks of opportunities by knocking enemies next to them.

And, as contradictory as it sounds, you can have a Flowing Monk of the Sacred Mountain by combining both Flowing Monk and Monk of the Sacred Mountain leading to even more Ki throwing insanity.

[Arcanist]

Willing Deformity (Obese)

Always wanted to play a Fat Transmuter before, never had the... Well I never found a DM that would allow me to write 280lbs on my character sheet... :smallfrown:

[hoverfrog]

For surges of power why not go for Barbarian and\or fighter and take Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Grapple as feat choices. Even better mix levels of Monk with Barbarian and Fighter for a lot of power.

[ThiagoMartell]

A sumo wrestler is called a sumotori, sumo is just the name of their fighting style. /nitpick

[StreamOfTheSky]

Play a synthesist summoner, with the eidolon bosuit being your sumo form. Use evolutions and enlarge person to get big and strong. Re-fluff the natural attacks as unarmed. Take lots of grab and push type evolutions to stick onto your attacks.

Be a Half-Elf to help with evolution points (favored class option).

[Slipperychicken]

Willing Deformity (Obese)

Always wanted to play a Fat Transmuter before, never had the... Well I never found a DM that would allow me to write 280lbs on my character sheet... :smallfrown:

Warforged base weight is 270lb, with the weight modifier of 2d6x4. I weep for your robot-deprived DnD experience.

[Rickshaw]

I actually think dwarf might fit pretty nicely if you go with the monk. bonus to wisdom and that stability thing. just shave off your beard and slick back your hair if you need to look like a sumo. maybe allow your player to take jotunbrud (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-faerun--23/jotunbrud--1702/) as a dwarf, or that D&dwiki 3.5e trait Born Big (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Born_Big_%283.5e_Trait%29). possibly even both? or let him take jotunbrud at say...5th level when he starts falling behind the other classes. counting as huge will really help with grapple bonuses, but in all honesty isn't THAT good. most enemies are going to have 20-30 CMB even at low levels, and pathfinder size bonuses work differently, meaning a the size bonus from being huge is only +2. the reach and automatic win because of being two size catagories larger is much more important.

[Blyte]

My overrun barbarian build kinda lends to the sumo concept

Human

Barbarian (invulnerable rager) (6 initial levels)
1 (bonus) combat reflexes
1 power attack
3 improved overrun
5 spiked destroyer

Monk (martial artist) (1 level)
7 (free) improved unarmed strike
7 greater overrun
7 vicious stomp

Fighter (brawler) (3 levels)
8 (bonus) dragon style 1
9 extra rage power
9 dragon style 2

Barbarian (cont.) (2+ levels)
11 Rhino Charge
13 Raging Deathblow
15 Extra Rage Power
17 Extra Rage Power
19 Extra Rage Power

Rage Powers
2 Strength Surge
4 Overbearing Advance
6 Overbearing Onslaught
9(6) Reckless Abandon or Superstition
12(8) Quick Reflexes
14(10) Flesh Wound
15(11) Quick Reflexes
16(12) Come and Get Me
17(13) Quick Reflexes
18(14) Quick Reflexes
19(15) Quick Reflexes
20(16) Quick Reflexes

The DR simulates the sumos thick skin and pain numbness
Rage simulates the ferocious sumo charge
I guess you could argue that a Sumo bull rushes and doesn't overrun, but that's against other Sumos. Against non-sumos I am pretty sure it would be an overrun.

basically you want to wear spiked rhino hide armor and charge and overrun as many things as you can. you will do ridiculous damage and feel like a sumo champ knocking everything you move through to the floor and killing or severely maiming them.

sample damage at level 10
with a 20str +4item +4rage = 28 STR
+1 furious armor spikes and +1 furious necklace of might fists

damage for overrun target 1
STR (overbearing advance) + armor spike (spiked destroyer) + unarmed (greater overrun) + unarmed (vicious stomp) + 6d6 rhino hide armor bonus from 3 attacks.

you end up doing 1d4(spike) +2d6(unarmed) +6d6(rhino) +45(str) +24(power attack) +9(weapon bonus) +9(brawler bonus) which is on avg 117 damage to your first target and that minus an armor spike on each additional overrun charge.

Once you get to throw "come and get me" in the mix, prepare for books and dice to be thrown.