ToB and mounted combat

[zlefin]

i'm not sure how the various ToB maneuvers interact with mounted combat, thoguh I get the feeling a fair number of them may not work well, and wanted some input on that. This issue occurred to me as I pondered a build for a game i was considering joining.

Stone dragon stances require being in contact with the ground iirc, and limited movement, which wouldn't work well with being mounted, if not outright impossible.
A fair number of tiger stuff depends on jumping, which is rahter incompatible with a mount, unless you can use the mounts jump in place of your own; but overall it feels like it may not work.
I'm not sure about how well the others would play with being mounted, as I haven't studied them as closely, but I get the feeling some of them really wouldn't work with being mounted well. Thoughts/notes/comments/rulings?

[Draz74]

Yeah, unfortunately, mounted combat wasn't high on the priority list when ToB was written. And yes, Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw are particularly incompatible with it. Probably Desert Wind and Shadow Hand too.

The only official discipline with any support for mounted combat is White Raven, and even there it's subtle. You can use its Charge-based strikes as a mounted charger (including compatibility with Spirited Charge), and if your mount has some weapon of its own, it can also lead to some nice flanking combos (where you and your mount flank the same target with the same ally). It's perfectly feasible to make a mounted Crusader who focuses on White Raven, but also heals his mount using Devoted Spirit. (Swordsage is ... harder. I'm not really sure why it has Ride as a class skill.)

But if you really want a strong mounted initiator who focuses on partnership with his mount, you'll need to venture into homebrew, such as the Twin Spirit Discipline.

[strider24seven]

Island of Blades is very awesome with a mount.
As is Martial Spirit.
As is Iron Guard's Glare.

Tiger Claw is absurdly good with a mount if you have really good jump and ride checks and have a way to ensure that your mount won't bolt during combat. Jump off the horse and attack as part of a maneuver (may need to make the DC 40 ride check to stand on the horse), jump back to the horse with Sudden Leap and re-mount as a free action (DC 20).

Shadow Hand teleports are also really good with mounts. I once played a Crinti Shadow Marauder who would use them in tandem with Shadowpounce (DM made the teleports supernatural and gave them the teleportation descriptor... not unreasonable imo).
It became nasty since I had Battle Jump and a spiked chain.

Attack sequence:
Shadow Jaunt off mount to 5' above 1st target-> full attack
Fall on 1st target-> full attack
Shadow Stride to 5' above 2nd target-> full attack
Fall on 2nd target-> full attack
Shadow Blink back to mount->full attack

[eggs]

Be sure to deck the mount with silly crowns of the White Raven and [whatevers] of Devoted Spirit.

[Metahuman1]

If you've got high too hit and a high concentration check modifier, those Diamond Mind maneuvers that allow you to use a concentration check for damage + Spirited charge are ridiculous!

[Urpriest]

If you've got high too hit and a high concentration check modifier, those Diamond Mind maneuvers that allow you to use a concentration check for damage + Spirited charge are ridiculous!

Almost none of them can be used on a charge, though.

[Draz74]

Island of Blades is very awesome with a mount.
As is Martial Spirit.
As is Iron Guard's Glare.
Oooh, Island of Blades is good synergy. I hadn't thought of that. And IGG is good synergy too. Martial Spirit, on the other hand ... is underwhelming. That healing could have gone to an ally instead of your mount, so I'm not really seeing the synergy.


Tiger Claw is absurdly good with a mount if you have really good jump and ride checks and have a way to ensure that your mount won't bolt during combat. Jump off the horse and attack as part of a maneuver (may need to make the DC 40 ride check to stand on the horse), jump back to the horse with Sudden Leap and re-mount as a free action (DC 20).
And ... what exactly is the benefit of going through all this trouble?


Shadow Hand teleports are also really good with mounts. I once played a Crinti Shadow Marauder who would use them in tandem with Shadowpounce (DM made the teleports supernatural and gave them the teleportation descriptor... not unreasonable imo).
It became nasty since I had Battle Jump and a spiked chain.
Shadow Pounce + Shadow Hand teleports is a nasty combo, but I'm not really seeing what the mount contributed. The teleports are actually the main reason I said Shadow Hand didn't work very well with a mounted style, since you can't take your mount along when you use them. (And as a side note ... Battle Jump is so vague, it might just be the most DM-dependent combat feat in the entire game. It can be super overpowered or worthless, just depending on the way your DM reads it.)


Be sure to deck the mount with silly crowns of the White Raven and [whatevers] of Devoted Spirit.
How come? I'm not seeing the awesomeness. (White Raven Tactics has a prerequisite, after all.)


Almost none of them can be used on a charge, though.
FTFY. :smallwink:

[Urpriest]

Shadow Pounce + Shadow Hand teleports is a nasty combo, but I'm not really seeing what the mount contributed. The teleports are actually the main reason I said Shadow Hand didn't work very well with a mounted style, since you can't take your mount along when you use them. (And as a side note ... Battle Jump is so vague, it might just be the most DM-dependent combat feat in the entire game. It can be super overpowered or worthless, just depending on the way your DM reads it.)


Crinti Shadow Marauders take their mount with them.

[Draz74]

Crinti Shadow Marauders take their mount with them.

Ah. Makes more sense. Still, I don't think the mount is really the true source of power in a shadowpouncing, Battle Jump-ing initiator build. :smalltongue:

[kitcik]

Awaken your mount and have it take ToB class levels - then they will interact quite nicely.

[Darrin]

Awaken your mount and have it take ToB class levels - then they will interact quite nicely.

Technically, there's no minimum Int required to learn maneuvers.