Level Adjustment Frenzy!

[Snowbluff]

So, like, my bros and I got into an evil 3.5 Campaign with some weird rules. Class Level 3, +4 level adjustment. So, we got to work on these, and I thought I'd open this to suggestions.

My Character, who is going Enlightened Fist Warlock, was rather easy. Magic Blooded Unseelie Lesser Aasimar Necropolitan that has Evolved 4 times. Got lucky on my rolls, so I have wings, Creeping Doom 1/day, Haste 1/day, and Dominate Monster 2/day. These, plus the Magic Blooded and Warlock SLAs will give me a wide selection of innate Magic that works thematically with my character. I'm pretty much done but I'd like some alternatives for Cha boosting, just in case.

Ip Man will be playing another Monk, but he will be a Sneak Attacker, grappling and full sneak attacking his victims while holding them. He naturally wants to boost his strength, but his LA set up ended up giving him like 40 more str (on top of the 18 he had assigned), and we though that might be a little overkill. So were are looking for some options to give him new abilities that would make him more capable overall instead.

The third one, Larry Von Immacionyk, is a Psion. His base race is undeacided, but he is a Half Fiend. Is there a better way to get him more intellect/PP with the given LA, in place of Half Fiend?

[VGLordR2]

Unseelie Fey changes your type to Fey. Necropolitan cannot be applied to anything with the Fey type.

[HunterOfJello]

The Phrenic Subtype is great for most characters. It's on par with Half-Fey for abilities gained and ability modifiers. Both of those are +2 LA. Phrenic can only go to creatures without the psionic subtype. That can be a harsh penalty since the best creatures to play Psions are Kalashtar and Psiforged. (I'm not sure if Psiforged have the psionic subtype, you'd have to check.)

The Tier System for Templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044.0) can give you a number of good suggestions about options you can pursue.

Divine Minion should be taken by anyone interested in magic. Being able to fly around as a hawk has serious advantages for spellcasters.

[Snowbluff]

Unseelie Fey changes your type to Fey. Necropolitan cannot be applied to anything with the Fey type.

KK, I'll change it. Any options to keep Unseelie but be undead as well?


The Phrenic Subtype is great for most characters. It's on par with Half-Fey for abilities gained and ability modifiers. Both of those are +2 LA. Phrenic can only go to creatures without the psionic subtype. That can be a harsh penalty since the best creatures to play Psions are Kalashtar and Psiforged. (I'm not sure if Psiforged have the psionic subtype, you'd have to check.)

The Tier System for Templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044.0) can give you a number of good suggestions about options you can pursue.

Divine Minion should be taken by anyone interested in magic. Being able to fly around as a hawk has serious advantages for spellcasters.

Okay, thanks! I'll tell my friend about Phrenic.

[Flickerdart]

Don't grappled creatures still get Dexterity to AC against the grappler? So the SA Monk build wouldn't work.

[Snowbluff]

Don't grappled creatures still get Dexterity to AC against the grappler? So the SA Monk build wouldn't work.

Niope.

Grappling Consequences (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm)

You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)
No Movement

You can’t move normally while grappling. You may, however, make an opposed grapple check to move while grappling.

[Averis Vol]

The monk could be a shade from races of faerun. They get some really cool defensive abilities like mirror image for free and they get the an intense teleport every two rounds or so. Doesn't exactly help with grappling. It it helps ease the burden of being a monk. They get a lot more, including stat boosts in the dark but I'm currently afb so I can't remember everything.

[Flickerdart]

Niope.

Grappling Consequences (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm)

You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)
No Movement

You can’t move normally while grappling. You may, however, make an opposed grapple check to move while grappling.
Right, but you still keep the Dexterity bonus against opponents you are grappling, which means that you can't Sneak Attack your grapple victim.

[Squidfist]

Oh man, for your monk buddy, I'd suggest a 4 armed Goliath, if you're just looking for "awesome" without flavor. I mean, it doesn't really make a lot of sense, but there is a variant in PHB 2 that says 2 extra arms is worth +2 LA.

Add an extra +1 template for added hilarity, like Dark, for +10 move speed, and Hide in Plain sight.

Now you'd have a 4 armed Goliath with +10 move speed, and Hide in Plain Sight. You'd be a trap-door spider!

So, you'd count as a large creature (powerful build), get +4 to grapple from an extra set of arms, and throw in goliath's natural +4 str. That is so silly.

[Snowbluff]

Right, but you still keep the Dexterity bonus against opponents you are grappling, which means that you can't Sneak Attack your grapple victim.

Dammit you're right. Even worse is that I had a work around for this, but I can't remember it. :smallfrown:

[KillianHawkeye]

Oh man, for your monk buddy, I'd suggest a 4 armed Goliath, if you're just looking for "awesome" without flavor. I mean, it doesn't really make a lot of sense, but there is a variant in PHB 2 that says 2 extra arms is worth +2 LA.

Add an extra +1 template for added hilarity, like Dark, for +10 move speed, and Hide in Plain sight.

Now you'd have a 4 armed Goliath with +10 move speed, and Hide in Plain Sight. You'd be a trap-door spider!

So, you'd count as a large creature (powerful build), get +4 to grapple from an extra set of arms, and throw in goliath's natural +4 str. That is so silly.

There's no listed bonus to grappling for having an extra set of arms. (DMG2 p.158).

[Ernir]

Savage Grapple from CAdv might work for the SA grappler. Can get Wild Shape via Wild Monk (Dragon 324) or, since you have free LA anyway, Divine Minion (It's online).

Doesn't synergize with huge base ability scores, though.

[dextercorvia]

Primordial Half-Giant gets +4 Int for only +1 LA. You can't apply phrenic to it though, and that makes me sad.

[danzibr]

The Phrenic Subtype is great for most characters. It's on par with Half-Fey for abilities gained and ability modifiers. Both of those are +2 LA. Phrenic can only go to creatures without the psionic subtype. That can be a harsh penalty since the best creatures to play Psions are Kalashtar and Psiforged. (I'm not sure if Psiforged have the psionic subtype, you'd have to check.)

The Tier System for Templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044.0) can give you a number of good suggestions about options you can pursue.

Divine Minion should be taken by anyone interested in magic. Being able to fly around as a hawk has serious advantages for spellcasters.
WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN THAT LINK? Thanks a lot man.

[Snowbluff]

Primordial Half-Giant gets +4 Int for only +1 LA. You can't apply phrenic to it though, and that makes me sad.

Why can't you? Giants don't gain the Psionic Subtype, do they? Or can you not have Phrenic on a Giant for another reason? You could make an Incarnate Construct Phrenic Primordial Warforged as far as I can tell.


WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN THAT LINK? Thanks a lot man.

It helps, but a little outdated. Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0)'s a list for good places to find similar threads though.

[planswalker]

Why can't you? Giants don't gain the Psionic Subtype, do they? Or can you not have Phrenic on a Giant for another reason? You could make an Incarnate Construct Phrenic Primordial Warforged as far as I can tell.

you can't because half-giants are a psionic race.

[Kuulvheysoon]

You could also suggest Half-Illithid to your monk friend. Use all those graplple points for something useful, I say!

Mmmm.... Brains....

[Squidfist]

There's no listed bonus to grappling for having an extra set of arms. (DMG2 p.158).Oh, you're right. I must have been thinking quadrupeds and tripping.

[Ingus]

Dammit you're right. Even worse is that I had a work around for this, but I can't remember it. :smallfrown:

If you have Improved Grapple, you may take a -20 Grapple penalty and you're not considered grappling.

Some races have extra bonus if they grapple with more than one hand.

[Flickerdart]

If you have Improved Grapple, you may take a -20 Grapple penalty and you're not considered grappling.

Some races have extra bonus if they grapple with more than one hand.
Improved Grab, not Improved Grapple.

[planswalker]

I've normally heard it said that you don't need either one to pull that off... just a free limb and an extra 20 grapple to blow.

[Flickerdart]

You've heard incorrectly. The option to hold a creature with one limb is granted by the Improved Grab special ability and is not a part of the regular Grapple rules.

[planswalker]

can you reference where this is stated?

[Siosilvar]

can you reference where this is stated?


Improved Grab

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

It's part of the Improved Grab ability and isn't mentioned elsewhere.

[planswalker]

ah, so it does. You learn something new every day.