Pathfinder Clericzilla Request [Core until told otherwise]

[Tokuhara]

I'm annoyed... My GM just sprung a loophole at me.

He wants us to only use the core rulebook. I warned him that in Core Only, Wizard, Cleric, and Druid can overshadow the rest of the party. He claims that Ranger and Monk are the best classes, but I can't get him to listen to reason, so instead, I plan on showing him.

He's a part-time player/GM, so I plan on abusing any and every cheesy trick to make Cleric surpass his notion of "overpowered."

So, using Pathfinder Core, a 15 point buy, WBL+100/lv, and Starting at third level, I beg you to show me how to rebuild the Clericzialla so I can show him what is awesome!

I have read the Guides, and see the glimmer of Clericzilla shining, so please, I beseech y'all. If you want me to praise your name as my new god, I shall.

My only rules:

No deity: As a "Clericzilla," I don't need to be a pawn to some pious deity
It needs to bring some of the glory back to the Clericzilla
Needs to prove that a Cleric isn't a Healbot. He claims, "That's all clerics can do."

Thank you all.

[NeoSeraphi]

Clerics get pretty badly overshadowed by oracles in PF. That said, oracles don't have a place in a Core-only game, so you're good to build a cleric, but why would you?

Clerics are...ick. Especially in Core. You don't have any fun attack spells, you just buff yourself and then swing a weapon. I personally would play a druid for this, as you can Wild Shape and pwn, or a transmuter wizard and then you can cast monstrous physique, pwn, and still cast spells without blowing a feat on Natural Spell.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cp. Back to the topic now.

A Clericzilla at level 3 will be difficult. Without heavy armor, you can't tank nearly as well (it's a full -3 to your AC if you don't have full plate).

Now, what you could do is play a Neutral cleric and get Channel Negative Energy. Then you take Selective Channel and get a high Charisma score (in this situation, have 16 Charisma and 12 Wisdom) [Sucks for your spellcasting, yet another reason why oracle is better than cleric], and you nova everyone. Walk into an encounter and blast every creature for 2d6 negative energy damage with no attack roll and a DC 14 Will save for half. No evasion, and you eat melee creatures alive. And if anyone comes near you, bash them with a morning star.

If you're dead set on traditional Clericzilla (buff stats and fight in melee), at level 3, then here's my suggestions:

Take the Strength and Destruction domains (I don't know if there's a deity that offers them both. If not, prioritize Destruction. War is a decent backup).

For spells, good 1st level spells are divine favor, magic weapon and shield of faith.

2nd level spells include hold person, shatter and spiritual weapon.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Are you allowed to play an Aasimar (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/aasimar.html#_aasimar) (not from the Core Rulebook, but they are from the Bestiary and are arguably core(ish) and suitable for PCs) by any chance? They're a pretty solid race for a Clericzilla, getting Martial Weapon Proficiency (as Outsiders (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html#_outsider) and saving you a feat or a domain), +2 Wis and +2 Cha (both are attributes you want), Darkvision (one less buff to put up), and acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.

I'm working up a prospective build for you, but I need to know if I can go Aasimar or not.

I don't know that Clericzilla is going to be as dramatic at this level, but it might be useful to know what we're expected to do better than with this build.

[NeoSeraphi]

Are you allowed to play an Aasimar (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/aasimar.html#_aasimar) (not from the Core Rulebook, but they are from the Bestiary and are arguably core(ish) and suitable for PCs) by any chance? They're a pretty solid race for a Clericzilla, getting Martial Weapon Proficiency (as Outsiders (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html#_outsider) and saving you a feat or a domain), +2 Wis and +2 Cha (both are attributes you want), Darkvision (one less buff to put up), and acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.

I'm working up a prospective build for you, but I need to know if I can go Aasimar or not.

I don't know that Clericzilla is going to be as dramatic at this level, but it might be useful to know what we're expected to do better than with this build.

Aasimar do not receive Martial Weapon Proficiency in Pathfinder, as stated by James Jacobs himself (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/clarificationRequestDoAasimarsTieflingHaveProficie ncyInAllBasicMartialWeapons&page=1#11). In order to get the weapon proficiencies associated with your type, you must have at least 1 Racial Hit Dice of that type, similarly to how you must take a level of a class in order to get that class's weapon proficiencies.

[grarrrg]

Core only is kinda harsh, but...


A Clericzilla at level 3 will be difficult. Without heavy armor, you can't tank nearly as well (it's a full -3 to your AC if you don't have full plate).
...
Now, what you could do is play a Neutral cleric and get Channel Negative Energy.
...
Take the Strength and Destruction domains (I don't know if there's a deity that offers them both. If not, prioritize Destruction. War is a decent backup).


Gorum (http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Gorum) has Strength and Destruction (See the link to the Deity/Domain guide in my Signature!) and is CN so Channel Negative is a possibility.
Favored weapon is Greatsword, so no problems there.

Deity or no deity, Strength is great for the Enlarge Person spell.
If this is a "one-shot" type thing, then by all means dump your WIS down to 12 (or 14 for the extra 2nd level slot), otherwise Stat as normal. May want Extra Channel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-channel---final) feat if CHA winds up low.

Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/channel-smite-combat) is worth a look.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Aasimar do not receive Martial Weapon Proficiency in Pathfinder, as stated by James Jacobs himself (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/clarificationRequestDoAasimarsTieflingHaveProficie ncyInAllBasicMartialWeapons&page=1#11). In order to get the weapon proficiencies associated with your type, you must have at least 1 Racial Hit Dice of that type, similarly to how you must take a level of a class in order to get that class's weapon proficiencies.

More and more reason for me to disagree with the Paizo team. I guess I'll put that one up to YMMV, given that clarification is not Core, and I'm not seeing any errata for it on the PRD (and as the DM wishes to play core only, that clarification may or may not be in play). What I would do is ask the DM if 0HD Outsiders receive Outsider traits or not - let him know that Mr. Jacobs disagrees with the rules text, and let him rule as he may. Martial Weapon Proficiency is a nice bonus, but not the only reason Aasimar make good clerics.

Tokuhara, if you could let us know, we'd appreciate it.

[Tokuhara]

He is kind of an airhead, and honestly, I want to 1-up him. Our party has a druid, but she's the happy flower-child band-aid druid...

My issue lies in his statement that a 20th level fighter, monk, or ranger can beat a 20th level wizard, cleric, or druid. I want to prove him wrong... So bad..

We can only use the player's guide. Honestly? He stole my thunder. Now, he pays...

Clericzilla, God-Batman Wizard, I much don't care if it's pathfinder's Pun-Pun. Give me something that will show him that Full Casters > every other class.

[maximus25]

It's almost sad that he's so hilariously wrong.


Go wizard and just win.

[ericgrau]

At level 3 a barbarian is going to dominate, or a barbarian/fighter.

When it's this close in PF, mainly at low level I mean, I question the value of getting help from 20 others to make a point. It seems like the real winner is anyone who gets lots of advice. I also question trying to actively break the system in a campaign rather than a theoretical challenge. It sounds like you're going to be a problem player and when the DM rightfully says "no" to something I suspect conflict is coming. If you want to make a point then some kind of build challenge on the side, outside of the campaign, may be better. Or else playing without forum help and without breaking the system, but still optimizing well.

That said if you want to play a cleric channeling and proper domains (especially for domain powers) may be the way to go. Or later hour/level buffs, magic item crafting, inflicts, harm and quicken. Though for a while I suspect team friendly buffs like prayer and also hitting them with hour/level spells are going to be better. Even when you finally get quicken divine favor a quicken bless is about as good, and likewise for quicken prayer vs quicken divine power.

[Slipperychicken]

My issue lies in his statement that a 20th level fighter, monk, or ranger can beat a 20th level wizard, cleric, or druid. I want to prove him wrong... So bad..


Then why are you doing this with a real campaign at 3rd level? Just settle it in a 20th level arena curbstomp fight. Ask him to build his Awesome Monk20, and curbstomp it with a [Tier 1 class]20. Set up some parameters (buff rounds, maximum height, Astral Projections, etc), then whoop its a**. I think Foresight+Celerity-> Timestop-> bad things works in PF. No need to involve this in the campaign


Personally, what I'd do in this situation is roll my eyes and keep playing. It's not that big a problem when you play low-op. It does let you explore "weaker" concepts, and try out that feat/combo/spell whose concept you love, but can't stand to put in a build because it's suboptimal.

[Tokuhara]

At level 3 a barbarian is going to dominate, or a barbarian/fighter.

When it's this close in PF, mainly at low level I mean, I question the value of getting help from 20 others to make a point. It seems like the real winner is anyone who gets lots of advice. I also question trying to actively break the system in a campaign rather than a theoretical challenge. It sounds like you're going to be a problem player and when the DM rightfully says "no" to something I suspect conflict is coming. If you want to make a point then some kind of build challenge on the side, outside of the campaign, may be better. Or else playing without forum help and without breaking the system, but still optimizing well.

That said if you want to play a cleric channeling and proper domains (especially for domain powers) may be the way to go. Or later hour/level buffs, magic item crafting, inflicts, harm and quicken. Though for a while I suspect team friendly buffs like prayer and also hitting them with hour/level spells are going to be better. Even when you finally get quicken divine favor a quicken bless is about as good, and likewise for quicken prayer vs quicken divine power.

My main issue is that I play druid. Really, it's the only class I know and know well. Pathfinder didn't really nerf it so much as they looked at druid and left it alone. However, since one of the GM's Girlfriend wants to be a druid, she gets to play it. Therefore, this leaves me in an awkward situation.

I understand druid, how powerful it is, and how I can be the best player on the team (If I were a cavalier, I'd be Order of the Cockatrice). Any other class, I compare them to druid and I feel that they all suck (no offense to Hardcore Wizard/Cleric players) in comparison. I just wish every class could be Druid.... Maybe different flavours... But with druid's level of power. Yes, Wizard can alter reality, but can he turn into a T-Rex and Chew some poor goblin's face off while still summoning elementals and calling down fricken Lightning? No. He can send your sorry butt into the upper atmosphere where you are burned into nothing, make time squeal like a pig, and become nigh indestructible. Then there's Cleric. He's caught between the Gods, playing third fiddle (still better than Sorcerer). Paizo drew their nerf-bats and beat the poor Cleric until he had nothing left. He's devoid of joy and life, subjugated to living in the Wizard's and Druid's shadows.

Now, my issue with the GM (his name's Tyler) is that he's an arrogant pain in the neck. His girlfriend and one of his friends, granted who've never played D&D/PF, want to play, so he grabs his rusty crowbar and caves in my creative kneecaps. I had something I wanted to play (Honestly, it was a Halfling Cavalier), but he said "Core Only." Then, I tried to explain to him that I only play druid, but since the other GM's gf is a druid, I don't want to get in a ****ing contest with her over a class. He told me, "Well, why not play Ranger? It's the best class in PHB!!!" I nearly lost my mind. I tried to explain the Tier system, but he did the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and sung loudly and out of tune. He claims that Monk is a great class, Evocation is the best school for a wizard, and Clerics are band-aid dispensers and suck at anything else, and the second anyone disagrees, he throws a tantrum. I'm sick of his crap, but he's the only game in my area, so I either have to suck up my pride, 1-up him, or not play. And I'm a proud man. I don't show weakness.

Hence, me bringing to you guys a need for the most broken build using Core-Only that is possible. If I show it to him and nix his every idea of "optimized," maybe I can get through to him that there are things beyond his little closed-off "PHB is the perfect book, akin to the Bible" train of thought and that he should be more open to creativity instead of stifling players with experience.

My major issue comes from him having 2 new players. Why should I gimp myself if someone else doesn't know how to play? Just because they don't know doesn't mean everyone should return to square 1...

Sorry. I needed to vent. Don't take this as "Flaming." I just needed to explain and blow a little bit of steam.

[Zerter]

Might as well go Drow noble.

[eggs]

If you can't prove him wrong, how are you so sure he doesn't have a point? :smalltongue:

Anyway, Clerics suck at pretending to be Fighters in Pathfinder. But they're still good at being casters. And that was always their real strength anyway. So crank Wis as hard as you can, drag Con and Cha up after it, and don't sweat the other stats too much. Grab heavier armor if you need it; Clerics don't need attack rolls.

In play, use your casting offensively. Summon spiders to Web-lock his big bads; use Silence to shut his casters down without a save; play tactically with Obscuring Mists, Commands and Cause Fears. Don't worry about buffs, except the occasional Bull Strength on whichever party member is trying to go to the front line (and don't be that sucker); avoid overtly defensive casting until you have the spell slots and the durations for it not to cost you your offensive capabilities (but having a Darkness in reserve to ruin NPC rogues is always fun).

And stock at least a few tanglefoot bags and a thunderstone or two; they don't have much to do with the Cleric, but they have a lot to do with playing smart.

For domains, I like Weather and Travel. Travel's ability is at least good for tactical movement, and its spells become pretty necessary for high-level play. And Weather's ability mixes offensive blasting with a somewhat useful debuff, and its spell list combines a good bunch of powerful BC abilities that aren't normally available to a cleric.

[marcielle]

I do hope you post how this turns out. I always wondered how one of these thing would actually go. It's just too bad you can't use Forbid Action. That would have been hilarious.

[hoverfrog]

My suggestion is to try to find a different game or to run your own game. Let him have his delusion that Rangers and Monks are better than spellslingers and go play your halfling cavalier where you'll enjoy the game.

[NeoSeraphi]

Yes, Wizard can alter reality, but can he turn into a T-Rex and Chew some poor goblin's face off while still summoning elementals and calling down fricken Lightning? No

...Not a T-rex, no, but replace the word "T-rex" with Medusa or Minotaur or dragon and the answer is "yes". Just because a wizard loses his ability to cast while he is under the effect of the beast shape spell doesn't mean he loses the ability to cast while under the effects of monstrous physique or undead anatomy or form of the dragon or giant shape. If you like transforming and casting, don't waste the feat slot and play a transmuter instead of a druid. Go Eldritch Knight and get better Fort, better BAB, and better hit dice (The BAB and HD exceed the druid's even).

And even if you can't play a halfling cavalier, you could always play a halfling fighter and just buy a riding dog. Max your Handle Animal and you'll be just fine. You don't get the Tactician ability, which is unfortunate, but you can simulate it by asking one of the new players to spend a feat slot on a teamwork feat. (They'll say something like 'We can take the same feat and do some kind of combo attack? Awesome!')

Mounted Combat is generally all about feats anyway, and the cavalier doesn't give a whole lot to it. (Unlike my cavalier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201509) *shameless plug*)

[Tetsujin-28]

Pathfinder nerfed Clerics. They can be great at melee, or great at spellcasting, but they can longer be great at both like in 3.5.

That being said, if you want to go melee, I'd recommend you play a race with a flexible +2 stat with a stat set up of 16/10/14/10/14/10. It'd a good idea to take a level in Fighter, to get heavy armor proficiency and martial weapon proficiency, plus the increased hit die, BAB, and bonus feat are all nice bonuses. You'll be slightly behind in spellcasting, but since you're focused on melee, it won't hurt too much. If taking a level in Fighter bruises your ego, since you want to show off Cleric so much, then be a Half Orc, as they get proficiency in Greataxes, and just take Heavy Armor Proficiency. Enlarge Person, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, and Spiritual Weapon are all good spells to take for this build.

How is your GM letting you handle domains? Do you just get to pick whatever you want? In that case, for the melee cleric, I'd recommend the Destruction and Strength domains.

If you're going to be a spellcasting Cleric, then just read what eggs posted.

[Tokuhara]

My suggestion is to try to find a different game or to run your own game. Let him have his delusion that Rangers and Monks are better than spellslingers and go play your halfling cavalier where you'll enjoy the game.

My problem with this: nobody else wants to play Pathfinder and I have 4 friends. So essentially, I'm screwed.

And a Caster Cleric would work, but I wish I could be a better melee character than a fighter and certainly better than the monk (tyler).

Personally, I don't enjoy blasting. It feels like a chore to just fireball things. If I wanted to do that, I say play a Sorcerer. And the Cleric isn't tied to blasting (supportive or otherwise). Maybe a "Bad Touch BFC Cleric" could work. #1, don't need to care about healing. 2, against undead, I simply rebuke. 3, I'm better at being a Caster than our Druid. So I win.

[Tetsujin-28]

I don't think Clerics can be better at melee than a Fighter or Barbarian in Pathfinder.

[Tokuhara]

Hence:

Plan A: "Bad Touch" Battlefield Controller Cleric

Plan B: Wizard (Diviner?)/Lorekeeper with a Compsognathus familiar (one thing I won't give up. Ever.)

[Karoht]

My main issue is that I play druid. Really, it's the only class I know and know well. Pathfinder didn't really nerf it so much as they looked at druid and left it alone. However, since one of the GM's Girlfriend wants to be a druid, she gets to play it. Therefore, this leaves me in an awkward situation.Solution to prove how potent druid/Tier 1 can be.
Help her optimize just a bit, guide her just a bit in combat, and watch her stomp things into the ground. With your Cleric's help.



"Well, why not play Ranger? It's the best class in PHB!!!" I nearly lost my mind. I tried to explain the Tier system, but he did the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and sung loudly and out of tune. He claims that Monk is a great class, Evocation is the best school for a wizard, and Clerics are band-aid dispensers and suck at anything else, and the second anyone disagrees, he throws a tantrum.Yeah, I'm kind of with everyone else here. It's going to really get ugly when you prove him wrong. See my point below for follow up.



I'm sick of his crap, but he's the only game in my area, so I either have to suck up my pride, 1-up him, or not play. And I'm a proud man. I don't show weakness.Well, if you manage to show him up in any way, you're about to probably ruin your ability to sit at the only game in your area. Part of me wants you to 'win' by showing him up, part of me wants you to 'win' by still having a game to play.



Hence, me bringing to you guys a need for the most broken build using Core-Only that is possible. If I show it to him and nix his every idea of "optimized," maybe I can get through to him that there are things beyond his little closed-off "PHB is the perfect book, akin to the Bible" train of thought and that he should be more open to creativity instead of stifling players with experience.Opening his mind to other alternatives is most of why I want to see you succeed.

Suggestion, don't aim to break things at level 3. Aim to break it by about 6. With the help of the Druid. This way, if he complains about what has taken place, he has to balance his arguement with his girlfriend in mind.



My major issue comes from him having 2 new players. Why should I gimp myself if someone else doesn't know how to play? Just because they don't know doesn't mean everyone should return to square 1...Help them prove him wrong.



Sorry. I needed to vent. Don't take this as "Flaming." I just needed to explain and blow a little bit of steam.Everyone has to at some point.
Best of luck.
Be prepared to start running your own game though, as if you do this wrong you may sour the table on having you back.

[Waker]

Well, for the race I would say to choose the Half-Elf and take the Ancestral Arms racial variant to grab proficiency with either Greatsword or Spiked Chain. If you think the game is going to be short-lived, I would suggest putting the +2 into Charisma. Domains to grab are Destruction and Travel. Feats to consider are Channeled Smite and Power Attack. And lastly, choose a neutral or evil alignment so you can channel negative energy.

Now bear in mind this is just a rough outline and I have no intentions of statting up the character fully. So without including any buffing spells and assuming you have a 12 in Strength while wielding a greatsword your character could do the following damage at lvl 3
2d6 (greatsword) + 2d6 (Channeled Smite) + 3 (Power Attack) + 1 (Destructive Smite) + 1 (Strength) for an average of about 17 damage on a hit. Nothing amazing, but I'm lazy and I don't want to put too much effort into optimizing this.

[Tokuhara]

She's not his Girlfriend. She's the girlfriend of the guy who's giving us a place to play and the "primary" GM. Tyler is the alternate, but he is bringing 2 new players, one being his girlfriend. Given the party make-up (a balance between Tier 1/2 and Tier 4), I don't see good things for the players who chose Tier 4. Druid is nearly idiot-proof, but telling her my point of view from Druid could help.

As for me as a Cleric, I almost want to do a Faux-Wizard with Cleric. How can this be done?

[dextercorvia]

She's not his Girlfriend. She's the girlfriend of the guy who's giving us a place to play and the "primary" GM. Tyler is the alternate, but he is bringing 2 new players, one being his girlfriend. Given the party make-up (a balance between Tier 1/2 and Tier 4), I don't see good things for the players who chose Tier 4. Druid is nearly idiot-proof, but telling her my point of view from Druid could help.

As for me as a Cleric, I almost want to do a Faux-Wizard with Cleric. How can this be done?

This is typically called a Batman Cleric, rather than Clericzilla. Clericzilla refers to a buff and smash approach.

At your level I recommend the Plant domain, and something like Travel or Trickery. You are looking at spells like Command, Hold Person, Shatter, Cause Fear, Entangle, Invisibility, Summon Monster, and Sanctuary.

As mentioned your Channel Ability is a decent blast.

[Tokuhara]

Just received an update from my main GM/Homeowner:

Anything on PFSRD, minus 3rd Party, Homebrew, and Archetypes.

This just opened up the proverbial floodgates.

If anyone has a powerhouse build (Tier 1/2 preferable), please post it.

[Jack Zander]

I'm not sure if the madness domain is 3rd party or not, but it's definitely got one of the best domain powers in the game. As a touch attack (no save) you can give either an ally or an enemy a bonus on their attacks, save, or skills and an equal penalty on the other two. Every time you reach the BBEG you can tank his saves and attacks and give him a boost to his skill checks (oh dear!). OR you can boost the party's attacks or saves as needed (just don't use it on allies when they need BOTH high attacks and saves).

[dextercorvia]

I'm not sure if the madness domain is 3rd party or not, but it's definitely got one of the best domain powers in the game. As a touch attack (no save) you can give either an ally or an enemy a bonus on their attacks, save, or skills and an equal penalty on the other two. Every time you reach the BBEG you can tank his saves and attacks and give him a boost to his skill checks (oh dear!). OR you can boost the party's attacks or saves as needed (just don't use it on allies when they need BOTH high attacks and saves).

Madness is in the PRD.

[doko239]

Are traits available?

Edit: Also, are subdomains allowed?

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, there are a few cleric handbooks. Only some of them are clericzilla handbooks though.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/rogue-eidolon-s-lab/rogue-eidolon-s-guide-to-clerics

http://pfs.shadowsofcommand.com/Cleric%20Optomization.htm

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6-_4HvPvV-Tt7I67Gi_oPhgHmeDVA5SBl-WrJSgf5s/edit?hl=en#

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/beckett-s-lab

I hope that helps!

[Tetsujin-28]

Just received an update from my main GM/Homeowner:

Anything on PFSRD, minus 3rd Party, Homebrew, and Archetypes.

This just opened up the proverbial floodgates.

If anyone has a powerhouse build (Tier 1/2 preferable), please post it.
Why not Archetypes?

[Blyte]

Sorry but pathfinder is no where near the monster that 3.5 turned into with all the supplements. Why on earth is your game reverting to core only?

My advice, make a wizard. You aren't breaking the game at level 3, but...

The game will inevitably turn into super wiz and his gang of thugs.

Just play a team player, party friendly item creation wizard, with unassuming feats like skill focus spellcraft and gear that increases your spellcraft (allowing you to crank out items beyond your typical abilities and faster)

Once you get access to 5th level spells and start cranking out pearls of power to supplement your arsenal, you will be breaking the game without trying. That will bring your point fully to bear when you have dominated giants and commanded undead out damaging the ranger and monk (who are wielding weapons and using items that you created for them at half cost)

The party is freely traveling back to town via your teleports, being saved from dying because you enchant their armor with 'determined', and being saved from TPK because you had the forethought to cast 'getaway' earlier that day before you broke camp.

If he allowed all the other good Paizo products, you could of course do so much more.. My wizard just got staff like wand for an arcane discovery and he is annihilating everything. When I used to just be content with locking everything down and buffing the party. Now I can do all that and also melt faces all day long.

[Tokuhara]

Tyler and I made amends and we agreed to disagree.

[dextercorvia]

Tyler and I made amends and we agreed to disagree.

That's disappointing. If every keeps handling OOC problems OOC, that is going to leave us with nothing to talk about but Monkday.

[grarrrg]

That's disappointing. If every keeps handling OOC problems OOC, that is going to leave us with nothing to talk about but Monkday.

Only Monkday?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*deep breath*OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Psyren]

That's disappointing. If every keeps handling OOC problems OOC, that is going to leave us with nothing to talk about but Monkday.

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Had this, erm... "contest" continued, I would have recommended Druidzilla too. Even before Wildshape they get good stuff, like Barkskin and the fighter as a class feature.

[Jack Zander]

That's disappointing. If every keeps handling OOC problems OOC, that is going to leave us with nothing to talk about but Monkday.

Sometimes I come across a post like this, and I frantically search for the "like" button.

[energyscholar]

I'll revive this long dead thread with a simple and highly effective solution. The OP requested a Cleric Build for Pathfinder, starting at Level 3, that would wow his GM. I suggest a variant of Brewer's Reach cleric. The idea, which works very well in practice, is to build a character that casts a spell on YOUR turn and inflicts martial damage (with a reach weapon) on the FOE'S turn.

The result is a variant of Battle Cleric that looks unimpressive, at first glance, but will shine in actual play. This approach emphasizes improved action efficiency: in the crucial early rounds of combat you BOTH cast a spell each round AND inflict substantial martial damage.

Level 3 Human Clericzilla with Domains of Animal and Tactics (Core only)
STR 18 DEX 14 CON 13 INT 7 WIS 14 CHA 7 (15 point build)
Feats (3): Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Boon Companion (useful at level 4)
Offense: Strong melee attacks, especially if you pre-buff
Primary Weapon: 10 foot reach long spear at +5 for 1d8 + 9 (3 AoOs)
Buffed: 10 foot reach long spear at +9 for 1d8 + 14 (3 AoOs)
Defense: Weak, unless you pre-buff. You have no shield.

Here's how a hypothetical combat might go, in the event your party is attacked by ten melee mooks with surprise. You win initiative (you have Tactics), but can not act in the surprise round.

Enemy surprise round (you do not act): four mooks approach your team this round, six more are coming next round. You have Combat Reflexes, so you get several (probably three) normal attacks of opportunity during enemy movement.

Round One * your action * You ignore the surviving nearby mooks, leaving them for your party to finish off. You move to meet the six incoming mooks, stopping 15' away from the closest. For your Standard Action you cast a spell of your choice. You decide to blast them with Sound Burst.

*enemy action* Three mooks were stunned and all were damaged, but the other three rush you to attack. You get an AoO against each, as it approaches. Any survivor(s) attack you.

Round Two * your action * Use Acrobatics to move away from the nearby mooks (avoiding their AoOs), stopping 15' away, then cast a spell for your standard action.

*enemy action* the remaining mooks rush in, giving you three more AoOs.

Summary: Despite being completely surprised with no chance to buff up, in the first two rounds of combat your Level 3 Cleric made 9 attacks and cast two spells. Given a 40% hit rate you inflict about 50 HP, while still casting a spell each round.

If you have the chance to buff up before a fight your offense gets MUCH stronger. E.g. With Bull's Strength, Magic Weapon,and Divine Favor all active you hit about as hard as a Barbarian of similar level.

When you reach Level 4 you get an animal companion. Since you already have the Boon Companion feat your effective Druid level is your character level. You have a full Animal Companion from Level 4 onward. I suggest an Axe Beak or a baby Roc.

P.s. If you have access to non-core options you might instead want the domains of Feather & Growth. Also you would take Sacred Summons as soon as you have a juicy one (depends on your deity's alignment).

[ericgrau]

so I plan on abusing any and every cheesy trick
Don't do this. Especially not to prove a point. It ruins games, proves nothing since it shouldn't be used in the first place, and for these reasons the DM is well within his rights to flat out say no.

Either way I wouldn't make a clericzilla in core PF, unless you mean something other than a major melee cleric. I'd hunt down a couple nice domains with swanky domain abilities, pick up selective channeling, and strongly consider being a neutral cleric with negative energy channels because offense > defense. And multi target damage is really really nice against everything except solo monsters and immune things. For spells there are some good mass buff spells like bless and prayer. And a handful of hour/level buffs to keep up all day, especially with a lesser rod of extend spell. Pick up a million "fix-it" scrolls of remove X, 1-3 each, level 1 spells for now and later level 2. And a wand of cure light wounds for between battle healing. You don't need a high wis for the above spells so getting some str is ok, but I wouldn't focus on melee. OTOH con + [enlarged] shield other is quite nice. Without DMM persist there's not much good self buffing you can do until level 15. Or at least level 9 for quickened divine favor.

[energyscholar]

I'd hunt down a couple nice domains with swanky domain abilities, pick up selective channeling, and strongly consider being a neutral cleric with negative energy channels because offense > defense.

Completely true. Also compatible with the 'reach cleric' Clericzilla build above. Pump up Charisma sufficiently and you can tack on negative energy channeling, Selective Channel, and Quick Channel. This allows you to damage nova impressively: one harmful channel for your Move action, cast a spell or another harmful channel for your standard action, a five foot step, and some AoOs with your reach weapon during enemy movement. This approach is MAD, and your negative channel effectiveness will be overly reliant on Owl's Wisdom. It is hideously effective at dropping swarms of mooks, but not very effective against a BBEG.

[HylianKnight]

You could always show him multiple instances of the developers publicly speaking about their failure to bring the monk up to snuff in pathfinder.

http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/sg3g3/we_make_pathfinderask_us_anything/c4dxnki?context=3

[Karoht]

Spiritual Weapon + Toppling Spell
Spiritual Ally + Toppling Spell

More trip attacks per round (which you direct as a Move Action and a Swift Action respectively) than the trip attack focused fighter. And you still have your standard action to do something. And they do force damage.
Who said Clerics don't get good attack spells?

Combo it up with a Wis/Sorc casting Twilight Knife + Mages Sword with Toppling Spell and watch the fun.

Spear of Purity and Soundburst are both excellent attack spells. Damage + effect, always handy.
Weapon of Awe is highly recommended as a buff spell. Shaken on a Crit is more useful than one might think. +2 damage (sacred bonus, so it stacks with things like Bard Music Inspire Courage) is excellent as well.

If you are neutral, you can take a feat at level 1 that allows you to Channel Energy either negative or positive. Worth having for flexibility.
I forget if Channel Smite is core or not. If it is, take it, and have a good Charisma. Not sure if that is core or not though.

Summon Monster for a Flanking Buddy is always fun. Don't forget that you can use Sanctuary and still Summon things.

Rage Domain (subdomain of destruction) is kind of fun. You can take a bunch of Rage powers that have no level requirement. Why is that a good idea? Overbearing Assault and Overbearing Advance + Improved Overrun + a super buffed up Clericzilla = Monster Truck. Not optimal, and it doesn't come online until past 8th level, but fun. Rage powers also have some fun utility. Like Drinking to get an extra save on something.
You can also get Knockdown and Knockback as Rage Powers. Handy things to have.

Animal Domain can get you an Animal Companion. Handy. Clericzilla is good, Clericzilla who rides into battle on an Animal Companion, and with the extra action economy of an Animal Companion, is pretty fun. Sadly, the Domain Spells are not so good.

If you are willing to go Lawful Good, grab a scroll of Bestow Grace of Champion. Grants the recipient half the caster level (in this case, half the CL of the scroll) in Paladin levels, granting you Charisma to Saves, various immunities, one use of Smite Evil, and one use of Lay on Hands.

Oh, and for all of those lovely Domain powers you get that are touch attacks, get the Conductive (+1) weapon enchant. No extra actions are required, the effect triggers automatically. Combined with Channel Smite, you could easily hit something for 2D6 (starting Channel Dice) + Weapon Damage + Strength Damage + the effect of your Domain Power touch attack thingy. If you combo'd that with Bestow Grace of Champion, in the same round you could hit with your Channel Smite + Lay on Hands + Smite Evil on a charge if you set it up right.
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/conductive

[Roland St. Jude]

I'll revive this long dead thread with a simple and highly effective solution.Sheriff: Don't do this. Please don't post in threads that haven't been posted in within the last six weeks. Please review the Forum Rules re: thread necromancy.