battle bard!!!!!!! works?

[ezunit]

ok this is my idea for a battle bard, the name is Lyric, the battle's song.

He uses a masterwork fiddle, vest of legend, badge of valor, dragon splits the good stuff etc...

feats:
dragonfire inspiration
TWF
power attack
extra music
exotic weapon prof
lingering song
snowflake wardance
song of the heart
words of creation
not in any order..

im able to take this many because the build is as follows:
1: fighter
2: bard
3: bard
4: bard
5: bard
6: bard
7: bard
8: bard
9: bard
10: bard
11: seeker of the song (sots)
12: sots
13: sots
14: sots
15: sots
16: sots
17: sots
18: sots
19: sots
20: sots

I picked sots instead of sublime chord cuz i want a bard that is a up front fighter plus a little utility with the 3rd lvl and below spells. The idea is to play my toons while the meat shie.. paladin goes in and gets the baddies attention. Play it like a rogue and flank, then beat the hell out of them with an extra 7d6 from dragon fire inspiration+inspire courage and give them plenty of attacks to the back and to top it all off blast them with one of those sots songs. I can do both due to combine songs (sots). Plus they linger so i can add a swift action blast every turn. With extra music i have 14 songs per day and if they linger, i dont think ill use that many in a day. The power attack/dragon split combo is for a little more pain, but really the hit will be a fist full of d6 with each attack. Also using a bard variant, savage bard. Just for flavor.

Flaws?
Ideas?
Missing anything?

I could use some input please =] (ToB not allowed)

[Baldin]

Hey,

If you want to be a fighter bard why not go Warchanter?

And what exotic weapon is so good to take a feat for it?

cheers
Baldin

[ezunit]

I like the idea that it gives boosts to str and gives me full BAB, but it dosnt pack the punch that the seeker does. for seeker i get many resistances plus a swift blast every turn. Also even if my attacks do not hurt, the dragon fire inspiration will hurt... a lot.

Also, the Dragon splits, they allow a nice benefit from power attack even as light weapons.

[Baldin]

clear enough=] SotS is a nice class imo.

One more question, if im correct you need the dragonblood suptype for dragonfire inspiration. How do you get that one?

[Snowbluff]

Get Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows, Slippers of Battledance, and fight wit ha Crystal Songblade. If you DM will allow it, use a Djore of Hustle in a Wand Chamber as if it were a wand to activate the Slippers.

To get Dragonblood, either take the feat, or play a Dragonblooded race (Silverbrow Human for example).

Take word of Creation (Doubles DFI and IC) and Song of the Heart (+1 to both as well).

[Feralventas]

One or two little dips in White Raven-school'ed Warblade; lots of charging and buffing abilities in that school that synergize very nicely with bardic music. Seconding the Slippers of Battle Dance (Cha to AC). Also suggesting a Belt of Battle (always useful to have more actions).

[mootoall]

Yeah, why not just have the standard BardBlade build, if you want to be a front-line fighter with bardic music? Or do you want bard spells as well?

[Bloodgruve]

I've been looking at a bard that runs a Tiefling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), Half Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a) or another Outsider that can use Alter Self (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=343.0) to gain some natural attacks and AC. LA Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) helps here. Take 2 Flaws if possible. Build Inspire Courage an get a bunch of attacks per round.

Bard5>Warblade1>Bard14 could do nicely.
Bard1> Totemist2> Bard X

Feats
1 - Melodic Casting
F - Extra Music
F - TWF
3 - Snowflake Wardance
6 - Song of the White Raven Multiattack
8 - Song of the Heart (traded for Suggestion)
9 - Knowledge Devotion
12-Words of Creation
14-Music of Making (traded for Song of Freedom)
15-Item Familiar
17-Music of Growth (traded for Inspire Heroics)
18-?

Traded feats from Eberron Campaign Setting p 34 using Music of Creation.

Stats needed; Int15 & Cha15 for Words of Creation and Dex15 for TWF if you can pull it off. Then as much STR as you can get.

Skills in Perform (Singing or Beatboxing) and Knowledge Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Religion and Planes and Spellcraft 4.

Skill Tricks; Collector of Stories for Knowledge Devotion.

Items of note; Slippers of Battle Dancing, Badge of Valor, Crystal Echoblades

Spells of note; Inspirational Boost and Alter Self

Warblade; You get 2nd level maneuvers and stances. Punishing Stance for 1d6 per attack, good with multiple attacks/natural attacks. Wolf Fang Strike, Mountain Hammer and Sudden Leap are all nice too. Add in another Warblade level any time after 8th level to pick up Iron Heart Surge if you want.

Use Alter Self to grab a nice form that gives big natural AC (Dwarf Ancestor +18AC!) and a bunch of natural attacks (Abishai) for more use of Inspire Courage. Knowledge Devotion with Collector of Stories for some more +hit/+dmg

GL
Blood~

*I recognize some of this info has been stated in earlier posts :)

** No TOB... Go Totemist 2 then for a ton of natural attacks, drop Song of the White Raven for Improved Natural Attack (Claws) or whatever you wanna use. Girallon Arms, Dragons Tail and Chaos Roc Span give you 7 natural attacks.

[eggs]

I could see the "no ToB" thing ****ing up some of the Warblade builds.

Is the Song of the White Raven substitution a houserule, a typo or a weird official addition from somewhere? If the latter, where did it come from?

@OP, could you break down the way you expect this to work in a tactical sense? Getting both Inspire Courage and Dragonfire Inspiration up is a bit of a nightmare, even with Song of the White Raven (both juggling the actions and keeping DFI from negating IC's morale boost).

If you aren't going to be going into melee until the 3rd or 4th round of any fight, I'd recommend dropping some of the melee-based level/feat investments - most fights will be winding down by the chance you can use them. And if you aren't going to have any swift actions free until the 4th or 5th rounds of any given fight, I'd recommend dropping the Seeker after level 2; the other abilities just won't ever have the opportunity to see use. In whatever space is freed, I'd recommend bolstering your buffing, casting and utility abilities instead.

[Bloodgruve]

Is the Song of the White Raven substitution a houserule, a typo or a weird official addition from somewhere? If the latter, where did it come from?

Thanks for catching that eggs, I had them mixed around but with no ToB its out anyway ;)

Blood~

[ezunit]

yes the no tob thing kills the warblade.. ik ik i wanted it too. but anyways i dont use the song of the white raven because i have never even seen it, if someone could point me to it id love to look it up.

Tactically this is how it would go, use combine song to get out inspire courage and i believe that comes with DFI if i choose so. This allows me to also put out one sots song. With lingering song i can then stop jammin and go put my dragon splits into someones back and top all of those DFI attacks off with one big blast with whatever song i choose to concentrate on (sots) because they are still lingering. If im correct, correct me if not, i could use first round to play my fiddle while the pally goes "HEY, look at me!" then i do the rogue thing and either tumble in or sneak in and get a nice cooshy flanking spot with my pally. Then unload on them with 4 attacks with a nice boost to hit with snowflake wardance, and even though im not that strong, a fist full of d6 should do the pain i like from each attack dealing +7d6 from DFI. That swift action blast is a nice icing on the cake and in my opinion i love the idea of having a toon that is called a ***** by the party but can run in and just nuke that crap outa something.

P.S. the battle bard idea comes from my friends saying bards are useless and wimpy... so im gona try running this to change their minds and show them the awesome power that is song. How pussyish is it for a bard to be in the front lines doing damage with the pally? hmmmm?

[ezunit]

oh and silverbrow human yes

[Bloodgruve]

Song of the White Raven (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/song-of-the-white-raven--2676/) allows Warblade and Bard levels to stack for Inspire Courage progression and it allows you to start up a song as a swift action while in a white rave stance.

DFI with a bunch of natural attacks can get pretty crazy also. 7 attacks with 14d6 each at the top end.. not too bad.

GL
Blood~

[eggs]

Tactically this is how it would go, use combine song to get out inspire courage and i believe that comes with DFI if i choose so. This allows me to also put out one sots song. With lingering song i can then stop jammin and go put my dragon splits into someones back and top all of those DFI attacks off with one big blast with whatever song i choose to concentrate on (sots) because they are still lingering. If im correct, correct me if not, i could use first round to play my fiddle while the pally goes "HEY, look at me!" then i do the rogue thing and either tumble in or sneak in and get a nice cooshy flanking spot with my pally. Then unload on them with 4 attacks with a nice boost to hit with snowflake wardance, and even though im not that strong, a fist full of d6 should do the pain i like from each attack dealing +7d6 from DFI. That swift action blast is a nice icing on the cake and in my opinion i love the idea of having a toon that is called a ***** by the party but can run in and just nuke that crap outa something.

P.S. the battle bard idea comes from my friends saying bards are useless and wimpy... so im gona try running this to change their minds and show them the awesome power that is song. How pussyish is it for a bard to be in the front lines doing damage with the pally? hmmmm?

A couple things:

Your action economy is going to be all fouled up. Look at the activation times of the Badge of Valor, Inspirational Boost and the various refrains. You'll probably only get one attack off before fights hit their "cleanup" stage. Pounce can fix that problem, or offensive casting can just ignore it.
Your attack bonus is going to be very low. Probably too low to power attack or TWF effectively. You can fix that with a class that gives better melee benefits than Seeker, with stronger spellcasting, or by finding a way to stack IC's Morale bonus to attack with DFI's damage boost.
Lingering Song doesn't work with Seeker of the Song's music. You'll need some other way to concentrate for its refrains. I don't believe Harmonizing weapons work either by RAW, but they'd be less of a stretch to argue.

I'd approach those either through a gish route (using Lyric Thaumaturge and/or Sublime Chord) or straight melee (like Bard/Barbarian/Warchanter), but you might be able to work something else out.

[ezunit]

A couple things:

Your action economy is going to be all fouled up. Look at the activation times of the Badge of Valor, Inspirational Boost and the various refrains. You'll probably only get one attack off before fights hit their "cleanup" stage. Pounce can fix that problem, or offensive casting can just ignore it.
Your attack bonus is going to be very low. Probably too low to power attack or TWF effectively. You can fix that with a class that gives better melee benefits than Seeker, with stronger spellcasting, or by finding a way to stack IC's Morale bonus to attack with DFI's damage boost.
Lingering Song doesn't work with Seeker of the Song's music. You'll need some other way to concentrate for its refrains. I don't believe Harmonizing weapons work either by RAW, but they'd be less of a stretch to argue.

I'd approach those either through a gish route (using Lyric Thaumaturge and/or Sublime Chord) or straight melee (like Bard/Barbarian/Warchanter), but you might be able to work something else out.

offensive casting will take the place of power attack, i see that now. Also, i think i can get all philosophical on that argument with lingering song or harmonizing weapons ;P Anyone else have ideas to make that work?

Id like to not have an argument, but ill try to fight for it if i have to

[ezunit]

honestly i love harmonizing weapons, and it seems like it would work. This could free up the feat of lingering song too. I could then keep power attack and add in offensive casting! =]

It says that songs continue, it dosnt say bardic songs.

As for the cleaning up part, yeah but its ok im a 5th anyway. Im not worried about being a complete bad ass, i mean i am there to buff anyway. Im ok with helping clean up. A nice aoe blast will help lots with that anyway.

[Bloodgruve]

Lingering Song is nice because you could Inspire Courage then Dragonfire Inspire. You should get the benefits of both. Its morale bonus's but they're for different things.

It is really a shame that ToB is out because that swift Inspire Courage would come in real handy here. Think your DM would give you feats from ToB? If so you could take Martial Maneuver >Martial Stance >Song of the White Raven. Or maybe your DM could homebrew a feat for you... It would be tough to burn two rounds bringing up the two songs.

GL,

Blood~

[ezunit]

he absolutely hates tob... he calls it op. But i can use that other sots thing that allows me to change my song as a swift action. it would still be a bother though.

[Snowbluff]

Lingering Song is nice because you could Inspire Courage then Dragonfire Inspire. You should get the benefits of both. Its morale bonus's but they're for different things.

It is really a shame that ToB is out because that swift Inspire Courage would come in real handy here. Think your DM would give you feats from ToB? If so you could take Martial Maneuver >Martial Stance >Song of the White Raven. Or maybe your DM could homebrew a feat for you... It would be tough to burn two rounds bringing up the two songs.


He can already have DFI and IC running at the same time thanks to Combine Songs.

The loss of ToB is a serious blow. I weep for you and the other melee in your group.

Have you considered the feat that lets you spend Bardic Music for Metamagic?

[Bloodgruve]

He can already have DFI and IC running at the same time thanks to Combine Songs.

Hmm, haven't really ever looked at SotS before, that ability is pretty handy with DFI.

Blood~

[ezunit]

i have not, ik but honestly tob is prettyyyy.. well its strong lol. i dont mind though, this build should still pack some real heat. Would metamagic be useful with only 3rd lvl spells?

[Bloodgruve]

but honestly tob is prettyyyy.. well its strong lol.

ToB is stronger than some options but if you have a tier 1 piloted by an experienced player it gives you a fighting chance to even things out. Taking a 1 level dip does not break the game for the DM. Not a big fan of the tier system either but it does hold some truth.

GL
Blood~

[Snowbluff]

i have not, ik but honestly tob is prettyyyy.. well its strong lol. i dont mind though, this build should still pack some real heat. Would metamagic be useful with only 3rd lvl spells?

Well, you could pick up the Metamagic Song feat and use your Bardic Musics to reduce the costs of thing like persist. Their should be a few good buffinf spells at those levels to make it worth it. If you don't want to persist yourself, beg your Wizard to get into Incantatrix and Persist Spells for you.


ToB is stronger than some options but if you have a tier 1 piloted by an experienced player it gives you a fighting chance to even things out. Taking a 1 level dip does not break the game for the DM. Not a big fan of the tier system either but it does hold some truth.

GL
Blood~

Yeah, the tier system is a rather loose construct. It simply says a Wizard will have more options than a Monk of the same level. ToB is so good, because it gives some nice tricks and action economy to melee, making 3 solid Tier 3 class (often noted as a tier sweet spot for many).

[Togo]

Harmonize, greater, from Races of Stone, allows bardsong as a move action.

So for first round try inspire courage+DFI+inspirational boost+spellcasting
So you could, for example, give everyone +10 to hit and +10+10d6 damage, and cast haste or glitterdust, etc.

If you want to do the damage yourself, you may be better off with ranged attacks, since that allows you to full attack without spending rounds moving into position. It's also less MAD than going for a high strength bard.

[ezunit]

thats a 4th lvl spell though, ill only have 3rd. so ill be happy to take harmonize.