I've never heard of this...have you?

[Getsugaru]

So I was looking at handbooks on the old brilliant gameologists forum, when I came across what I think is a race being mentioned. "Dvati". But when I tried to find out more, I couldn't find anything. So I decided to come over to this playground and ask: What in the nine hells is a Dvati?

Thanks in advance.

[Invader]

Its in the Dragon Magazine Compendium that's about all I got lol.

[Big Fau]

It's the classic "Twins that think like a singular person" thing. Dvati are twins, but you play both "creatures" as a single entity.

[Waker]

Dvati are a race that was introduced in Dragon 271 and republished in the Dragon Compendium. They are a race of twins, where each pair shares a single soul. Logistically speaking they are very odd, as they can divide actions between them and they share a single life total.

[Invader]

I gather that the concept seems to be a bit broken as well.

[HunterColt22]

They gain some interesting mechanics but also are a pain to play just from a mechanical stand point. Biggest issue being both twins share hp, ie divide it upon level up between each body. Thus they have the hp they should at their level just each body holds half of it. It's an odd race, but a good choice if you ever had a brother/sister idea and no other player to help make it.

[Invader]

Can someone post a link to their stats, I can't find them anywhere.

[HunterColt22]

http://blackmarches.wikidot.com/forum/t-228613/dvati

Has most of their stuff but take it with a grain of salt, from a wiki.

[Invader]

http://blackmarches.wikidot.com/forum/t-228613/dvati

Has most of their stuff but take it with a grain of salt, from a wiki.

Thank you.

[Wookie-ranger]

Nice!
Never heard about them before. I might add them to my Vampire Twins BBEG!

The Vampire Twin Sisters.
They pretend to be one and the same person, living in a big city as a lower/mid noble. I plan to be using them soon when my Players come to the "Big Town" to metropolis of my the current world. They/she is not the Main BBEG but almost. The 'real' BBEG is a Black Dragon; i know kind of lame, but there is a running joke about him in my group.

One of them hunts every so often (about every 10-20 days), while the other one is at a ball, big event, or something like that.
That way when the PCs see one of the sisters in the street biting someone, they suspect her. She will flee as soon as she can though, leaving the PCs to find where she is. When the PCs confront her 'she' has a perfect alibi, with dozens to hundreds of first-grade witnesses.

Equipment:
Ring of mind shielding (or custom item). Nothing that unusual for a wealthy noble. She is not willing to take it off, and the other nobles or the judges are unwilling to force her, as she has been seen by so many very credible sources when the crimes happen.

[Nizaris]

If you want twin backstabbers, they can be fun. Spell casting can be a pain since both are required to cast on the same turn but since both can otherwise act independently that means you can make two full round attacks while flanking and sneak attack.

[HunterColt22]

Nice!
Never heard about them before. I might add them to my Vampire Twins BBEG!

The Vampire Twin Sisters.
They pretend to be one and the same person, living in a big city as a lower/mid noble. I plan to be using them soon when my Players come to the "Big Town" to metropolis of my the current world. They/she is not the Main BBEG but almost. The 'real' BBEG is a Black Dragon; i know kind of lame, but there is a running joke about him in my group.

One of them hunts every so often (about every 10-20 days), while the other one is at a ball, big event, or something like that.
That way when the PCs see one of the sisters in the street biting someone, they suspect her. She will flee as soon as she can though, leaving the PCs to find where she is. When the PCs confront her 'she' has a perfect alibi, with dozens to hundreds of first-grade witnesses.

Equipment:
Ring of mind shielding (or custom item). Nothing that unusual for a wealthy noble. She is not willing to take it off, and the other nobles or the judges are unwilling to force her, as she has been seen by so many very credible sources when the crimes happen.

Just remember that if one dies, they both do, and that even though she does get a yummy d12 due to being a vampire, she still only has half of the hit points earned on either body. Example, if your vampire has 24 hit points in total, then each body for the twins only has 12 hit points to it before it goes down. Though being a vampire negates this due to temp hitpoints coming into play readily.:smallconfused:

[Wookie-ranger]

Just remember that if one dies, they both do, and that even though she does get a yummy d12 due to being a vampire, she still only has half of the hit points earned on either body. Example, if your vampire has 24 hit points in total, then each body for the twins only has 12 hit points to it before it goes down. Though being a vampire negates this due to temp hitpoints coming into play readily.:smallconfused:

soo, what would happen if one of the twins is on a Plane with the trait:
if alive, positive else
if undead, negative

Would they get permanently healed?
what if one of them is wearing a 'ring of regeneration?

[HunterOfJello]

I remember reading their entry in the Dragon Compendium. They're definitely the worst spellcasting race ever, or the next thing to.

I hadn't considered the sneak attacking idea, that's a good strategy for them. They could even work as their own flankers.

[Mithril Leaf]

You've missed out on the best class for them. Dragonfire adept. You get your class features doubled. Throw some templates on there and suddenly your HP isn't so low, you get free twin breath and a bunch of other nice stuff.

[Bloodgruve]

The biggest problem is that they divide Hit Points between the two twins. And if one dies you're pretty much done. So although you get 2 guys they're both pretty squishy. Would have been better if you did in fact share a health pool...

Blood~

[rel]

They are squishy but with the right build they can pack quite a punch. Plus it is a cool idea.

[Darrin]

soo, what would happen if one of the twins is on a Plane with the trait:
if alive, positive else
if undead, negative

Would they get permanently healed?
what if one of them is wearing a 'ring of regeneration?

Damage to each body is tracked individually. They share the same soul, not the same body.

They have a telepathic connection to each other, and can even communicate across different planes.

The "death" thing is somewhat manageable... if one dies, the other takes 1d4 Con and Wis damage and a -1 cumulative penalty on attacks/skills/saves each day, which at least gives you a short window to scrape up an emergency raise dead or whatnot.

The biggest headache with Dvati is getting your DM to agree on how they allocate their actions. On one of the old WotC message boards, someone asked Mike McArtor (editor for the Dragon Compendium) how their actions work, and he made a somewhat off-the-cuff ruling that they get one set of actions divided between the twins, so only one of them can take a standard action every round. Unfortunately, this contradicts the text in Dragon Compendium ("These two creatures move and act separately..."), renders most of their racial features pretty much useless (particularly the Echo Attack), and makes them nearly unplayable. This made me very sad inside.

So, I tracked Talon Dunning, the original creator of the Dvati, and asked him how he intended them to work. You can see his email responses here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7815509&postcount=32). Unfortunately, he doesn't give much of a clear answer, either. So you're kinda left with negotiating with your DM on what he thinks would be balanced, and then hashing it out via careful playtesting.

[GnomeGninjas]

The sneak attack thing might not work. There Pair Link ability seems to replace normal flanking so it could be interpreted that they don't get normal flanking benefits.

[Roguenewb]

Theres a feat from Savage Species that lets you cast two spells around as a full round action if you have two heads (And many prereqs), I searched for *months* for a good race to throw this onto, and I currently believe that the Dvati are the best race for it. As a result, a well built Dvati wizard is actually a *very* solid possibility.

I dream of playing a Dvati Mystic Theurge where each head is one of the casters, and go from there.

[Curmudgeon]

An important consideration is that Dvati are great flanking companions, but not for each other.
flank

To be directly on the other side of a character who is being threatened by another character. A flanking attacker gains a +2 flanking bonus on attack rolls against the defender. A rogue can sneak attack a defender that she is flanking. The Dvati twins are a single character, and can't flank by themselves.

[Boci]

An important consideration is that Dvati are great flanking companions, but not for each other. The Dvati twins are a single character, and can't flank by themselves.

Wow, that effect is far reaching. Animals companions, familiars and special mounts, they aren't characters themselves either. What about summoned creatures?

[Bloodgruve]

This race sounds like a good Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm)/Vigor candidate. Any spell with 'personal' or 'you' is shared between the twins. Or would Share Pain cause an infinite loop instantly killing both twins? Would Share Pain have a double effect because each twin would get a copy and need to find a willing creature?

Here's a question, can each twin attack separately or do they have 1 set of actions between them?

It states:
A dvati character is actually two separate dvati
twins who share a soul. These two creatures move
and act separately but have a number of restrictions
based on their connection.

Casting a spell is noted as a restriction, both twins must focus to cast a spell. Manifesting a power is not listed as a restriction but I would assume that it would be as RAI.

Would Hustle give you 1 or 2 move actions?

This could get too fun.

Blood~

[Flickerdart]

An important consideration is that Dvati are great flanking companions, but not for each other. The Dvati twins are a single character, and can't flank by themselves.
Does a Druid not flank with her Animal Companion, then, as the AC is not a character?

[Darrin]

An important consideration is that Dvati are great flanking companions, but not for each other. The Dvati twins are a single character, and can't flank by themselves.

That's contradicted by the rules. From Dragon Compendium:

"Echo Attack: By combining their voices into one maddening cacophony, a pair of dvati twins can confuse a creature they flank. If both twins speak as a move action while flanking an opponent, that creature must make a Will save."

If they can't flank, then they couldn't use echo attack, which would be a bit bizarre, giving them an ability they can never use.


This race sounds like a good Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm)/Vigor candidate. Any spell with 'personal' or 'you' is shared between the twins. Or would Share Pain cause an infinite loop instantly killing both twins?


Target for share pain is "you and one willing creature" or "two willing creatures". Since "you" encompasses both Dvati twins, they would have to pick one other creature other than themselves to share pain with them. How to allocate the HP damage would be a bit of a head-scratcher, though.



Here's a question, can each twin attack separately or do they have 1 set of actions between them?


Each twin gets its own set of actions. Otherwise echo attack would be nearly impossible to use, and the prohibition on spellcasting wouldn't make any sense at all: if the pair only gets one standard action, then it would be impossible for the other twin to attack or do anything else but move while the other one was spellcasting. The text even says: "One twin cannot cast a spell while the other attacks, for example." Presumably, if neither twin is casting a spell, they would both be able to attack.



Casting a spell is noted as a restriction, both twins must focus to cast a spell. Manifesting a power is not but I would assume that it would be covered RAI.


Magic/psionic transparency is the default, so activating a psionic power would be treated the same as casting a spell. Both twins would have to concentrate.



Would Hustle give you 1 or 2 move actions?


Range: Personal, so both twins would get the benefit.

[IthroZada]

Wow, that effect is far reaching. Animals companions, familiars and special mounts, they aren't characters themselves either. What about summoned creatures?

No, Animal companions and such are characters, separate non-player characters. The Dvati, while clearly meant to flank each other, are considered a single character and a character can not flank with himself.... Well barring certain awesome feat chains/prestige classes.

I would definitely read it as intended as opposed to RAW, so I would allow them to flank, assuming I am DMing.

[Getsugaru]

Speaking of Animal Companions, what would happen if a Dvati character were to take level's in Druid, in respects to the Animal Companion? Would it, for example, be one animal, or maybe the same as the Dvati of 2 with half the hp? What do you think, Playground?

[Yora]

Aren't they the Wind Dukes from Greyhawk?

[VGLordR2]

Aren't they the Wind Dukes from Greyhawk?

Those are the Vaati.

[Curmudgeon]

That's contradicted by the rules. From Dragon Compendium:

"Echo Attack: By combining their voices into one maddening cacophony, a pair of dvati twins can confuse a creature they flank. If both twins speak as a move action while flanking an opponent, that creature must make a Will save."

If they can't flank, then they couldn't use echo attack, which would be a bit bizarre, giving them an ability they can never use.
I don't see why you think there's a contradiction. The Dvati are perfectly capable of flanking, and they're good at it. They just can't do so alone. The Dvati flank just as any other characters do: with the assistance of another character. You can't flank by yourself if you're playing another type of character, and you can't flank by yourself if you're playing a Dvati character. Also, while at least 2 characters are required for flanking, more than 2 can also flank.

[Boci]

I don't see why you think there's a contradiction.

Really? That's kinda pushing. RAW aside, if you cannot see how Echo Attack could cause something to assume that Dvati were meant to be able to flank a target with each other....

[VGLordR2]

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.

Emphasis mine.

Dvati are defined as different creatures. They are one character, but they are separate creatures. So they can flank just fine.

[Curmudgeon]

Emphasis mine.

Dvati are defined as different creatures. They are one character, but they are separate creatures. So they can flank just fine.
That phrase ("character or creature friendly to you") covers non-character summoned creatures. That's why I cited the Glossary definition (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flank&alpha=F) to remove ambiguity. Dvati twins are allies of each other, but they still can't flank without another character.

[VGLordR2]

I'm not entirely certain that the Rules Compendium is a more relevant source than the Glossary for flanking rules. But if it is, here's the relevant text:

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by an ally on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner. Only a creature that threatens your foe can help you gain a flanking bonus.
Based on this text, the Dvati pair can flank with each other.

That aside, I'm pretty sure that RAI meant for them to be able to flank with each other. It's not unreasonable to allow it.

[Bloodgruve]

Flanking
Rules Compendium; by an ally on the opponent's opposite....

SRD; by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opp...

Glossary; by another character.


Which takes precedence?

If it's the RC any ally will do. Twins should work here.

If it's the SRD friendly creatures will do. Twins should work here if you are friendly to yourself.

If it's the glossary then only PC's can flank. Depends on the definition and view point of the term 'another'.

IMHO this race was made to be flanking buddies even though RAW is confusing. There is even a WARNING! attached to this race..

Blood~

[The Glyphstone]

Not touching the Flanking thing, but the talk about their low hit points wasn't exactly accurate. Someone said Dragonfire Adept is a good class for them, and it is, because it's a Con-primary class. Dvati split Hit Points gained from their Class Hit Dice between the twins, but each twin gets the full bonus from their Constitution modifier for each of their shared hit dice.

[Flickerdart]

If it's the SRD friendly creatures will do. Twins should work here if you are friendly to yourself.
Tch. Have you ever met twins? :smalltongue:

[IthroZada]

One thing to keep in mind when creating Dvati characters and picking classes, AoE damage spells are twice as effective against you. So, while flankers are nifty, bow specialized ones might be less... dead.

[Mithril Leaf]

Not touching the Flanking thing, but the talk about their low hit points wasn't exactly accurate. Someone said Dragonfire Adept is a good class for them, and it is, because it's a Con-primary class. Dvati split Hit Points gained from their Class Hit Dice between the twins, but each twin gets the full bonus from their Constitution modifier for each of their shared hit dice.

You could fairly easily have well, not the HP of a barbarian, but the HP of a ranger for each twin. Not too shabby at all. Double class feature and reasonable hit points is a potent combo.

[Bloodgruve]

Tch. Have you ever met twins? :smalltongue:

Point taken.. SRD doesn't work :P