Monk/Drunken Master help?

[TimeLordLaxx]

I'm somewhat new to D&D (doing a 3.5 campaign) and a new character I am making is going to be a half dragon human monk. I don't really care how terrible that is (if it even is all that bad) but what I do want to know is what are the pro's and con's of going into Drunken Master as well as Monk. This character will be joining after my present character dies so in about two levels, which means the group will be about 8 and with the LA of +3 my guy will be somewhere around level 5. Thanks in Advance.

[Gavinfoxx]

So it sounds like you want to do this:

-Make a melee combatant
-Who is unarmed and unarmored
-Who alternately uses items he finds around him to kick ass (ie, improvised weapons)
-Who is empowered to be better at melee combat and hard to hit by drinking alcohol (or some other poison)
-Who is difficult to hit
-Where you can plausibly flavor him as a wushu martial artist
-Who can be a useful in the group as a highly mobile striker
-Who can hold his own in the group

Correct?

If that is the case, you are doing three terrible things with regards that goal:

1.) Getting a level adjustment of over +0
2.) Using the Monk Class
3.) Being a Half-Dragon

The Drunken master is okay... but that's mostly because it's an improvement to the Monk. In comparison to any class that isn't a dog with fleas, it would suck.

Could you clarify if those assumptions I mentioned before are correct?

[Urpriest]

Drunken Master encourages you to use improvised weapons, but never grants you proficiency with them, so you take a -4 penalty to use them. It also lowers your Wis when you drink. I'd ask for some changes to the class if you can.

[Randomguy]

Wasn't there an Iron Chef challenge with Drunken Master? You should probably look that up.

You can't actually get into Drunken Master at level 5. You need 5 levels before you can get the required tumble ranks.

The main Pro of Drunken Master is the capstone, which basically gets you a 39d12 breath weapon as a free action. (But if you wanted to use it at will you'd need very high mental stats and you'd need to be plastered all the time, and energy resistance applies separately to each 3d12). The boost to physical stats is also very good. Also, using improvised weapons as a Drunken Master does more damage than if you stayed in monk, I think.

Some of the cons of Drunken Master opposed to Monk is that: You need to waste a few feats, your will save is worse.

[eggs]

Monk is bad, Half-Dragon is worse, and Drunken master just kicks whatever's left in the groin. Don't expect to survive long or do anything well.

EDIT:
I usually try to be a positive voice in "making the best of a bad class" threads. In this case, I'm not seeing anything redeeming.

[TimeLordLaxx]

Thanks for the somewhat....yeah i picked a rather ****ty set up, It was actually suggested by a friend that instead of half dragon do half vampire, a smaller LA but i picked the one that sounded better. Would any of you have a suggestion that wouldn't get my ass kicked? The one thing that i refuse to change is the monk part for RP reason, but change out half dragon for something less....I would assume aneurysm inducing for those who look at the build i have. I was also yelled out for thinking about taking drunken master by my DM because i lose spell resistance, so he is only letting me go monk twenty as well as no flaws because he doesn't like them.

[eggs]

Dragonborn of Bahamut (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b) from Races of the Dragon are a lot like Half-Dragons, but without the LA and more appropriately-scaling abilities.

On Monk, pretty much all the class's useful abilities come in the first 2 levels. After that, it's just slow advancement for the less useful powers. You might think about taking the first two levels and looking elsewhere for continued advancement - even something like Fighter or Rogue will give better benefits faster without breaking the Unarmed-Warrior-Ninja concept.

[Gavinfoxx]

Spell resistance will get you killed. It's a monster ability for a reason.

It's, what, a standard action to lower it? One you can't do if you go down and are dying, which is when the cleric will be spending an emergency action to try to heal you...

Draconic or Dragonborn of Bahamut will get you all the flavor your need.

What books do you have available?

I would abandon the whole drunken thing, if you can manage it...

You DO want to make an unarmed martial artist as your primary concept, right? There are LOTS AND LOTS of ways better than monk to do that, but we need to know your sources.

Remember, there are several classes with identical flavor to the monk.

This makes sense, because WotC realized that they had made a crap class, and made a variety of attempts to fix the Monk as time went on, up to creating a completely new wushu martial artist class that beats the monk into the ground, as well as several ways to advance the important monk abilities with only one or two levels of monk, before you go to other classes.

Remember... the flavor of your character, for roleplay, is what you make it!

To show you what I mean, here is a wushu martial artist, a Monk, that a friend of mine made.

Whose class is "Barbarian 10". With no levels of Monk.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=408878

[TimeLordLaxx]

Resources/books are all and any. If i can give him a link or page number he will most likely accept it. And at this point being yelled at by my DM and scolded by the people here it is clear that drunken master has been dropped from my thought process :smallsmile: I'll take a look at what has been suggested, but i do have a personal hate towards barbarians for no logical reason other than I am a weird person.

[Togo]

Monk's a viable class. People have dislike for it because it isn't particularly powerful, is very MAD (needs lots of high stats), and is designed around the rogue chassis - it's not designed a warrior class. If you want to play an unarmed warrior/fighter, don't choose monk. If you want a mobile light character with lots of of special abilities, it's not all that bad.

Drunken master is a nice flavourful class too. Again, not that powerful, and there are some design problems. As long as your DM rules that the drinking ability can't reduce your mental stats below a certain point, and that you get proficiency with the improvised weapons, then it works fine. You may want to try and get improvised weapons as a monk weapon, so you can combine with flurry. As written, using your class features renders you unconscious unless you have wis and int above 20, which clearly wasn't what was intended.

To make a good combination, you need high strength above all, followed by dex, then con and int, with wisdom as 5th and charisma as a dump. Then take all the strength-based moves you can find - imp trip, imp grapple, etc. You may also want to look at TWF, if only for ranged attacks.

What you end up with a classic light infantry build - very mobile, very hard hitting, a bit of a glass cannon, with lots of good combat moves. Don't try and stand toe-to-toe with the big bad, don't try and hit the target with high AC, do try and get to the spellcaster/archer in the first round.

A drunk enlarged monk5 DM 5 with str 20 and a ladder can get into the midst of a pack of enemies and threaten everyone within 20'. Within 10' it's a trip at +19 plus follow up attack at +16 for 2d6+d8+20.

Don't get me wrong - it's not a particularly powerful build. You'll never get as good at fighting as a fighter. But it's decent for a low-op game if you get it right, and should be a great deal of fun.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here are the major 'replacements' for monk:

1.) Unarmed Swordsage, from Tome of Battle. This is the most obvious Monk 2.0. Go take a look at it; the Unarmed bit is an Adaptation of the monk, and it does everything the monk wanted to do.

2.) Tashalatora Psychic Warrior. What you do with this is take a level or 2 of Monk, the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona, and go into Psychic Warrior from Expanded Psionics Handbook or the System Resource Document and never look back. Instead of Psychic Warrior, Ardent (from Complete Psionics) can work well, too.

3.) (Whirling Frenzy [System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana] or Ferocity [Cityscape Web Enhancement]) Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion), Wolf Totem (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana) Barbarian. Like that barbarian build I linked to, those are the core changes and acf's of the barbarian class to make it more monk-like. Take Skilled City Dweller-ride for tumble (Cityscape Web Enhancement) and City Brawler (Dragon Magazine #349). Streetfighter (Cityscape Web Enhancement) isn't necessary --it helps--, but that build took it. I would suggest Whirling Frenzy over Ferocity like that build took. Just get Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle), a Monk's Belt (DMG or SRD, if your wisdom is high), some light armor (if your wisdom isn't high, like that build took), a Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerun I think), a Necklace of Natural attacks (Savage Species), and/or a Fanged Ring (Dragon Compendium Volume 1). In fact, any of these builds could maybe use those items!

4.) Monk 2/Mystic/Sacred Fist. This monk build uses a divine class, and the 'text over table' rule to get full casting for the Sacred Fist prestige class in complete divine. It works okay with Cleric, great with the Mystic class from Dragonlance Campaign Setting (choose a strong melee domain or devotion [complete champion!]), and pretty good with Favored Soul from Complete Divine. Don't take more than 2 levels of Monk. Focus on long-duration self-buffs.

5.) Monk with a huuuuge variety of alternative class features. Namely: Wild Monk (Dragon Magazine #324), Holy Strike (Complete Champion), Invisible Fist (Champions of Valor), Resistant Body (Planar Handbook), who picks up the 'X Wild Shape' (where X is a descriptor) feats from Draconomicon, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Frostburn. Make sure the DM lets you use your unarmed strikes at the end of your natural attacks. Focus on Wild Shape forms that get Pounce. Only works as 'powerful' once you get Wild Shape, and if you use a method of speaking while in Wild Shape, and of getting your gear to work while in Wild Shape as well (Wilding Clasps, or taking it off and putting it on after you shape).


Oh, just a note? NEVER TAKE VOW OF POVERTY.